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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Why I loved DAOC but am not funding this

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118 posts found
  Danwarr

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/09
Posts: 190

"Prepare for Titanfall."

4/23/13 12:15:31 AM#81
Originally posted by Tierless

 


Originally posted by Danwarr

Originally posted by augustgrace

Originally posted by Tierless This is from a guy on the Kickstarter. "It's amazing how people can spend 10-15 bucks going to the movies. A movie that they have no idea what it's about, or very limited knowledge (plot lines etc.). And the movie will last about 2 hours. But pledging 25 bucks to a game that has all this information they flat out refuse."
That movie will have multiple trailers, reviews, interviews and is guaranteed to exist as a consumable product.  CU on the other hand is a vague concept from someone with a checkered past, who is reluctant to put his own money on the line and that even if funded may end up vaporware.   Pretty HUGE difference.
I'm sure plenty of people have had movie experiences they would like to have back.

 

I'm looking at you Transformers.


 

Michael Bay is the nightmare that keeps my childhood awake in bed at night.

Leonard Nimoy being in the last one was a bit heartbreaking

Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
Playing: ESO,DCUO
Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape

  redcapp

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/11
Posts: 733

4/23/13 12:35:28 AM#82

I pledged a bit.

 

I too miss the PvE aspect of DAoC.  It was a great game because of the multitude of things to do.  It wasn't great just because of RvR, wasn't great just because of PvE.. etc.  Would I like to see a new DAoC?  YES!  But we're not going to.  GW2 had promise.  Didn't work out.  ESO looks like its shaping up to be the same result (imo, but i'd like to be wrong).

 

That said, CU doesn't claim to be the next DAoC.  It claims to be something new, and what I've heard so far I like.  As more information gets released, especially pertaining to the sandboxiness of the worldbuilding system, I like it more and more.  I'm excited to see where the project goes and hope it funds.

 

That said, the game is clearly intended for a certain audience that is not your typical MMO player.  Fine by me.  I haven't played an MMO extensively for quite a while.  The last one I had fun with was GW2 and that lasted maybe two months.  Guess I'm no longer part of the typical 'MMO' crowd, so it makes sense to support this niche project for me.

 

Edit to add:  As far as the OP goes, I gotta say.  If this game turned out to be anything like GW2 WvW for hours on end, I'd be EXTREMELY disappointed.  Sounds nothing like that, though, thus far. 

 

 

  Holice

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/08
Posts: 118

4/23/13 11:56:14 AM#83
Originally posted by Tierless

 


Originally posted by Danwarr

 

I'm looking at you Transformers.


 

Michael Bay is the nightmare that keeps my childhood awake in bed at night.

Blasphemy!!! Michael Bay makes things go Boom!

 

Back on track thou, I was actually thinking about MJ's whole method of approaching this game with kickstarter. It gave me a rather interesting thought when thinking about how he wants people to back his game based on his theories and ideas, but if he doesn't get 2mil from KS, he won't follow through with it. Basically he is telling me that he himself does not believe enough in his game to fully back it. If he thought that this game would be a great success and revolutionize the industry, then why wouldn't he just fund it fully, or drop the KS value down? If he honestly thought that people would "want" to play the game, why not just make it and then recoup your funds on the back end? Or use his 2mil of the game first to get it into proper shape for previewing it, and then do the kickstarter to finish it off after people saw all the majesty he proposes?

Again, this is just some thoughts I had when thinking about how he will not persue the game if it doesn't reach goal.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/23/13 12:14:33 PM#84
Redcap
Your right, there's elements of
Planetside - pure rvr game
Eve - economy
Perpetuum - base building

In there, its not a pure daoc clone.

That's probably a good thing though, daoc is still there if people want to play it (although its atrociously supported by ea)

Personally I wish they'd looked at chivalry / mount and blade / war of the roses too, for the combat.

Im kinda a hoping one of them 3 decides to make a mmo, their combat with a daoc / planetside meta game would be really fun.
  Vendac

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 39

4/23/13 12:22:54 PM#85
Originally posted by Holice

 

Back on track thou, I was actually thinking about MJ's whole method of approaching this game with kickstarter. It gave me a rather interesting thought when thinking about how he wants people to back his game based on his theories and ideas, but if he doesn't get 2mil from KS, he won't follow through with it. Basically he is telling me that he himself does not believe enough in his game to fully back it. If he thought that this game would be a great success and revolutionize the industry, then why wouldn't he just fund it fully, or drop the KS value down? If he honestly thought that people would "want" to play the game, why not just make it and then recoup your funds on the back end? Or use his 2mil of the game first to get it into proper shape for previewing it, and then do the kickstarter to finish it off after people saw all the majesty he proposes?

Again, this is just some thoughts I had when thinking about how he will not persue the game if it doesn't reach goal.

More FUD?

As you stated, Mark Jacobs is putting up $2 million of his own cash.  In addition to this, there is another $1 million he has secured elsewhere.  What I could honestly see is that if the Kickstarter is successful, he might be able to pull in another million or so from other investors.

I actually see the KS campaign as more of a proof of interest honestly.

You cant fix stupid - Ron White

  Hjamnr

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/29/13
Posts: 174

4/23/13 12:25:58 PM#86
Originally posted by Vendac
Originally posted by Holice

 

Back on track thou, I was actually thinking about MJ's whole method of approaching this game with kickstarter. It gave me a rather interesting thought when thinking about how he wants people to back his game based on his theories and ideas, but if he doesn't get 2mil from KS, he won't follow through with it. Basically he is telling me that he himself does not believe enough in his game to fully back it. If he thought that this game would be a great success and revolutionize the industry, then why wouldn't he just fund it fully, or drop the KS value down? If he honestly thought that people would "want" to play the game, why not just make it and then recoup your funds on the back end? Or use his 2mil of the game first to get it into proper shape for previewing it, and then do the kickstarter to finish it off after people saw all the majesty he proposes?

Again, this is just some thoughts I had when thinking about how he will not persue the game if it doesn't reach goal.

More FUD?

As you stated, Mark Jacobs is putting up $2 million of his own cash.  In addition to this, there is another $1 million he has secured elsewhere.  What I could honestly see is that if the Kickstarter is successful, he might be able to pull in another million or so from other investors.

I actually see the KS campaign as more of a proof of interest honestly.

And he has stated that that is a prime function of this process.  Even the $1 or the $5 pledges matter.

  Wakygreek

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/30/08
Posts: 1244

Reason is a necessity

4/23/13 12:48:53 PM#87
Originally posted by Tierless

This is from a guy on the Kickstarter. "It's amazing how people can spend 10-15 bucks going to the movies.
A movie that they have no idea what it's about, or very limited knowledge (plot lines etc.). And the movie will last about 2 hours.
But pledging 25 bucks to a game that has all this information they flat out refuse."

The difference being obvious, a movie you get what you paid for up front. While the Kick Starter you have to hope that what they promised ends up in the final product. So in the end on one hand your paying for a finished product and on the other you throwing money into what some can only call blind faith.

  Ziftylrhavic

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 223

4/23/13 1:23:45 PM#88
Originally posted by Holice

Back on track thou, I was actually thinking about MJ's whole method of approaching this game with kickstarter. It gave me a rather interesting thought when thinking about how he wants people to back his game based on his theories and ideas, but if he doesn't get 2mil from KS, he won't follow through with it. Basically he is telling me that he himself does not believe enough in his game to fully back it. If he thought that this game would be a great success and revolutionize the industry, then why wouldn't he just fund it fully, or drop the KS value down? If he honestly thought that people would "want" to play the game, why not just make it and then recoup your funds on the back end? Or use his 2mil of the game first to get it into proper shape for previewing it, and then do the kickstarter to finish it off after people saw all the majesty he proposes?

Again, this is just some thoughts I had when thinking about how he will not persue the game if it doesn't reach goal.

It's not because you like the game and find it awesome than everyone does. Not everyone like french fries, i knew somebody once who didn't. But it's really rare. Unless i have some weird luck that made me only meet people that like them. Or at least don't dislike them.

There was no way to know beforehand how many people would like the idea. And it would just be plain stupid to spend money in a game when so few like it than you can't even get 1k people together.

 

PvP players in a MMO are already a niche. RvR is a specific type of PvP which needs meaningful death penalty to work out and be able to do any strategy, or it's just win by the number because you can't get truly rid of the enemy, so it is a small niche inside a niche. It's not unreasonable to think it may be too small to support the game.

 

I don't know how many people have heard of it, but 10k seems rather small compared to the total number of players (i heard WoW had several millions of players, and i'm sure not everybody plays it), which i can guess is above 10M, so it means than less than 0.1% of them gave money now. As i said, i can't know how much coverage the game had, but it seems normal to doubt such a small niche even exist. Well, technically it does, since MJ like the game, so it have at least 1 guy in it. You know what i meant.

  Ziftylrhavic

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 223

4/23/13 1:31:07 PM#89
Originally posted by Wakygreek
Originally posted by Tierless

This is from a guy on the Kickstarter. "It's amazing how people can spend 10-15 bucks going to the movies.
A movie that they have no idea what it's about, or very limited knowledge (plot lines etc.). And the movie will last about 2 hours.
But pledging 25 bucks to a game that has all this information they flat out refuse."

The difference being obvious, a movie you get what you paid for up front. While the Kick Starter you have to hope that what they promised ends up in the final product. So in the end on one hand your paying for a finished product and on the other you throwing money into what some can only call blind faith.

There are people spending 50 cent each week to have a piece of paper to scratch for such small chance to win a lot of money that you can't even put it in number, you have to write a fraction.

 

Over 2 years, it means more than $50, and the chances to get what you want are close to 0. All of a sudden throwing $25 to that KS doesn't seem as crazy.

  binskki

Novice Member

Joined: 3/23/13
Posts: 154

"I just die so fast it's hard to position myself. :)"

4/23/13 1:34:43 PM#90
Originally posted by meddyck
Originally posted by Docmandu
Originally posted by meddyck
 The number of classes is very disappointing. I don't find Mark's explanation for why he is doing it that way very convincing. Why is it harder to create a lot of classes now than it was 12 years and 2 MMOs ago? It should be easier.

I thought it was 5x3, as in 15 unique classes but only 5 archetypes... did I get the info wrong?!

I don't consider the crafter to be a real class since all of its skills could be done like a profession that any other class could train and nobody would notice the difference other than the few people who just really want to roleplay a character that is useless in combat. So there is 1 healer, 1 tank, 1 caster, and 1 hybrid or speeder in each realm. And maybe 1 archer if the first stretch goal is met. By comparison at launch DAOC had at least the following in each realm: 2 healers, 1 tank, 1 melee DPS, 1 melee hybrid, 1 speeder, 1 assassin, 1 archer, 1 dps caster, and 1 pet caster.

To be fair, however, he has been very specific about saying that none of these classes will be mirrored in the other realms.  So the tank in each realm should play very differently, the healer in each realm, etc - like, say, the Champ compared to  the Paladin compared to the Thane (magical tanks),  or the Druid compared to the Cleric compared to the Healer. 

He has also says that each of the classes will be able to customize their abilities very differently, depending on the choices that they make - Pac Healer vs. Mend Healer vs. Aug. healer comes to mind as a comparison.  I actually had three different healer toons when I played on Midgard because the three lines played so differently.

Since this is all coming from the person who brought us that amazing variety of DAoC classes at its launch (yes, I loved them, too - and it was  was a new and crazy thing at the time!) , I am confidant that there will be a lot of very different choices for a player to make based upon how they like to play.  And there are plans to add more classes as the game goes on.  The number is just limited at the outset because the priority is balancing them extremely well - which makes for the best gameplay for everyone. 

I would love to see more classes, too (my name is binskki, and I am an altoholic...lol) but I think the reasons for not going as huge as that at the outset are valid - and making fun-to-play classes with a ton of variety seems to be a priority.

 

  Holice

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/08
Posts: 118

4/23/13 4:11:40 PM#91
Originally posted by Hjamnr
Originally posted by Vendac
Originally posted by Holice

 

Back on track thou, I was actually thinking about MJ's whole method of approaching this game with kickstarter. It gave me a rather interesting thought when thinking about how he wants people to back his game based on his theories and ideas, but if he doesn't get 2mil from KS, he won't follow through with it. Basically he is telling me that he himself does not believe enough in his game to fully back it. If he thought that this game would be a great success and revolutionize the industry, then why wouldn't he just fund it fully, or drop the KS value down? If he honestly thought that people would "want" to play the game, why not just make it and then recoup your funds on the back end? Or use his 2mil of the game first to get it into proper shape for previewing it, and then do the kickstarter to finish it off after people saw all the majesty he proposes?

Again, this is just some thoughts I had when thinking about how he will not persue the game if it doesn't reach goal.

More FUD?

As you stated, Mark Jacobs is putting up $2 million of his own cash.  In addition to this, there is another $1 million he has secured elsewhere.  What I could honestly see is that if the Kickstarter is successful, he might be able to pull in another million or so from other investors.

I actually see the KS campaign as more of a proof of interest honestly.

And he has stated that that is a prime function of this process.  Even the $1 or the $5 pledges matter.

I understand that, and to me it gives the impression that he is not sure that his game would be good enough to players/subscribers post launch. 

Blizzard didn't need to see how many donations they could get pre launch, nor did EVE, yet in both cases, the developers believed in their product and went forward with it.

I guess if I heard MJ say that he was going to do this game, regardless of the donations, but would appreciate help in the process to increase productivity and hasten goals, then I would be more willing to believe that he truly feels this will be a great game.

Proof of interest is going to be hard right now especially since all he is offering is words, and very little detail, he definitely should have started development and then provided a kickstarter with in game footage and more detail. And if he truly believes this game to be as revolutionary as some of you think, he shouldn't hesitate to continue on even if the KS fails.

 

  Hjamnr

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/29/13
Posts: 174

4/23/13 4:19:50 PM#92
Originally posted by Holice
Originally posted by Hjamnr
Originally posted by Vendac
Originally posted by Holice

 

Back on track thou, I was actually thinking about MJ's whole method of approaching this game with kickstarter. It gave me a rather interesting thought when thinking about how he wants people to back his game based on his theories and ideas, but if he doesn't get 2mil from KS, he won't follow through with it. Basically he is telling me that he himself does not believe enough in his game to fully back it. If he thought that this game would be a great success and revolutionize the industry, then why wouldn't he just fund it fully, or drop the KS value down? If he honestly thought that people would "want" to play the game, why not just make it and then recoup your funds on the back end? Or use his 2mil of the game first to get it into proper shape for previewing it, and then do the kickstarter to finish it off after people saw all the majesty he proposes?

Again, this is just some thoughts I had when thinking about how he will not persue the game if it doesn't reach goal.

More FUD?

As you stated, Mark Jacobs is putting up $2 million of his own cash.  In addition to this, there is another $1 million he has secured elsewhere.  What I could honestly see is that if the Kickstarter is successful, he might be able to pull in another million or so from other investors.

I actually see the KS campaign as more of a proof of interest honestly.

And he has stated that that is a prime function of this process.  Even the $1 or the $5 pledges matter.

I understand that, and to me it gives the impression that he is not sure that his game would be good enough to players/subscribers post launch. 

Blizzard didn't need to see how many donations they could get pre launch, nor did EVE, yet in both cases, the developers believed in their product and went forward with it.

I guess if I heard MJ say that he was going to do this game, regardless of the donations, but would appreciate help in the process to increase productivity and hasten goals, then I would be more willing to believe that he truly feels this will be a great game.

Proof of interest is going to be hard right now especially since all he is offering is words, and very little detail, he definitely should have started development and then provided a kickstarter with in game footage and more detail. And if he truly believes this game to be as revolutionary as some of you think, he shouldn't hesitate to continue on even if the KS fails.

 

Here. http://www.twitch.tv/citystategames/c/2195418

  DJMantiss

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 103

4/23/13 4:24:33 PM#93
No their Twitch information is just silly and almost trolly. Very little information and more excited about a black shirt or a toy duck then they are about the game. Not exactly something that inspires the masses to believe in you. Hence why the backing for Camelot Unchained has slowed to a crawl and with only 8 days left to earn another $650,000+ dollars... well things look bad. Of course the RvR only idea from a guy who couldn't even deliver results during the WAR beta doesn't scream success to me regardless.
  Hjamnr

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/29/13
Posts: 174

4/23/13 4:27:42 PM#94
Originally posted by DJMantiss
No their Twitch information is just silly and almost trolly. Very little information and more excited about a black shirt or a toy duck then they are about the game. Not exactly something that inspires the masses to believe in you. Hence why the backing for Camelot Unchained has slowed to a crawl and with only 8 days left to earn another $650,000+ dollars... well things look bad. Of course the RvR only idea from a guy who couldn't even deliver results during the WAR beta doesn't scream success to me regardless.

 

That's a link to an update that provides a proto-alpha working demo. http://www.twitch.tv/citystategames/c/2195418
  calranthe

Novice Member

Joined: 1/29/05
Posts: 361

4/23/13 5:21:48 PM#95
I love pvp but it is too easy to burn out on pure pvp really wish this game had a little pve content.
  Ziftylrhavic

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 223

4/23/13 5:27:49 PM#96
Originally posted by Holice
Originally posted by Hjamnr
Originally posted by Vendac
Originally posted by Holice

 

Back on track thou, I was actually thinking about MJ's whole method of approaching this game with kickstarter. It gave me a rather interesting thought when thinking about how he wants people to back his game based on his theories and ideas, but if he doesn't get 2mil from KS, he won't follow through with it. Basically he is telling me that he himself does not believe enough in his game to fully back it. If he thought that this game would be a great success and revolutionize the industry, then why wouldn't he just fund it fully, or drop the KS value down? If he honestly thought that people would "want" to play the game, why not just make it and then recoup your funds on the back end? Or use his 2mil of the game first to get it into proper shape for previewing it, and then do the kickstarter to finish it off after people saw all the majesty he proposes?

Again, this is just some thoughts I had when thinking about how he will not persue the game if it doesn't reach goal.

More FUD?

As you stated, Mark Jacobs is putting up $2 million of his own cash.  In addition to this, there is another $1 million he has secured elsewhere.  What I could honestly see is that if the Kickstarter is successful, he might be able to pull in another million or so from other investors.

I actually see the KS campaign as more of a proof of interest honestly.

And he has stated that that is a prime function of this process.  Even the $1 or the $5 pledges matter.

I understand that, and to me it gives the impression that he is not sure that his game would be good enough to players/subscribers post launch. 

Blizzard didn't need to see how many donations they could get pre launch, nor did EVE, yet in both cases, the developers believed in their product and went forward with it.

I guess if I heard MJ say that he was going to do this game, regardless of the donations, but would appreciate help in the process to increase productivity and hasten goals, then I would be more willing to believe that he truly feels this will be a great game.

Proof of interest is going to be hard right now especially since all he is offering is words, and very little detail, he definitely should have started development and then provided a kickstarter with in game footage and more detail. And if he truly believes this game to be as revolutionary as some of you think, he shouldn't hesitate to continue on even if the KS fails.

 

I feel like i'm being ignored, but i'll say it again anyway.

 

The question here isn't to know if the game will be good enough. It'll be awesome. The question is to know if enough people like the type of this game.

 

You can make the best football video game, but it will never interest me. I just don't like it. Same with any sport game. However, you can make an average tower defense and if i come across it i'll try it, i may even play a few hours on it.

 

Now i doubt anybody would waste $2M to make the best game of its type ever if nobody like this type. And MJ is only trying to make a great game. It'll technically be the best since it'll be the only one though^^.

 

About the details, everything with somewhat any importance will either be presented before the end of the KS or discussed with the backers, even some artistic parts. So any lack in the details means you'll get to influence it. Seems a good point to me.

  Ziftylrhavic

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 223

4/23/13 5:32:28 PM#97
Originally posted by calranthe
I love pvp but it is too easy to burn out on pure pvp really wish this game had a little pve content.

There will be PvE, just check out the update of The Depth. You just won't gain anything from it and so it won't be necessary.

I read they were thinking about other ways to take a break from RvR too around the start of KS.

  Comaf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1146

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

4/23/13 5:35:48 PM#98
Originally posted by morfidon
Originally posted by LateBrake1

I play most MMO's and even played DAOC back in the day and really enjoyed it, however I am not backing this project. It seems to me when your going so niche by being PvP only and with a limited class selection it's just not appealing compared to what else is out there.

Perhaps it's somewhat because I  (and my friends) are burned out on GW2 world vrs world. The thought of just WvW (or  RvR as they call it) 24/7 would be mind numbing.

Had they said 18 classes, 3 realms, PvE zones to fight over, raids, maybe even the ability for user created content, it would have a better chance. Yes I understand they keeping their ambitions small and focused (class wise and gameplay wise) but what's the point if you cant make the game anyway? Why not go big? I enjoy PvP but man everyone needs some variety.

I think it's going to take a game that is very well rounded to rise to the top of the MMO world in the future. It would have all those things and more, maybe not done amazingly well at the beginning but at least the prospect of it.

I will say GL to MJ though but again, not throwing a bone to the PvE people or including anything new and revolutionary gameplay wise is a decision I would not have made.

 

so you say that this:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained/posts/460192

is not revolutionary? lol

No kidding!  This is absolutely amazing.  My Shadowbane, Age of Conan and Dark Age of Camelot friends are pretty psyched. 

 

 

8,102

Backers
 

$1,253,024

pledged of $2,000,000 goal

 

 

8

days to go

 


 

 

  Shadanwolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1903

4/23/13 5:40:33 PM#99

I believe looking at the past can often forshadow the future.

Jacobs has destroyed  the last two games he touched.Guess what I see in his future ?

 

 

 

.........................................................    and you wonder why he's looking for funding ?

  Wakygreek

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/30/08
Posts: 1244

Reason is a necessity

4/23/13 5:46:00 PM#100
Originally posted by Ziftylrhavic
Originally posted by Wakygreek
Originally posted by Tierless

This is from a guy on the Kickstarter. "It's amazing how people can spend 10-15 bucks going to the movies.
A movie that they have no idea what it's about, or very limited knowledge (plot lines etc.). And the movie will last about 2 hours.
But pledging 25 bucks to a game that has all this information they flat out refuse."

The difference being obvious, a movie you get what you paid for up front. While the Kick Starter you have to hope that what they promised ends up in the final product. So in the end on one hand your paying for a finished product and on the other you throwing money into what some can only call blind faith.

There are people spending 50 cent each week to have a piece of paper to scratch for such small chance to win a lot of money that you can't even put it in number, you have to write a fraction.

 

Over 2 years, it means more than $50, and the chances to get what you want are close to 0. All of a sudden throwing $25 to that KS doesn't seem as crazy.

Valid point, your still comparing apples to oranges though. On on hand the outcome although not guaranteed you still know your going to win or lose cash. On the other hand your assuming that what someone tells you will be fact even though there is no way they can guarantee the final product. You may get a different game then what you wanted when you donated originally. Cash will always be cash regardless if you win or not. A game will not always be the same depending on the course of its production and cost.

 

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