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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Why I loved DAOC but am not funding this

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118 posts found
  Docmandu

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/06
Posts: 59

4/22/13 6:33:02 AM#21
Originally posted by meddyck
 

The number of classes is very disappointing. I don't find Mark's explanation for why he is doing it that way very convincing. Why is it harder to create a lot of classes now than it was 12 years and 2 MMOs ago? It should be easier.

I thought it was 5x3, as in 15 unique classes but only 5 archetypes... did I get the info wrong?!

 

  KaiserPhoenix

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/13
Posts: 66

4/22/13 6:33:40 AM#22

the game is also not competing with just current mmos, but with the ones coming out in the next 3+ years.

Chances are, that the game's niche might be even smaller then, since many pvpers will be spread over multiple AAA games .

  Ogrelin

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 640

MMORPG-Player - Since 1997!
GM of Svea Ulvar

4/22/13 6:49:00 AM#23


Originally posted by KaiserPhoenix
the game is also not competing with just current mmos, but with the ones coming out in the next 3+ years.

Chances are, that the game's niche might be even smaller then, since many pvpers will be spread over multiple AAA games .


That's not a reason NOT to back this game now... is it?

  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1944

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

4/22/13 6:54:20 AM#24
Originally posted by LateBrake1

I play most MMO's and even played DAOC back in the day and really enjoyed it, however I am not backing this project. It seems to me when your going so niche by being PvP only and with a limited class selection it's just not appealing compared to what else is out there.

Perhaps it's somewhat because I  (and my friends) are burned out on GW2 world vrs world. The thought of just WvW (or  RvR as they call it) 24/7 would be mind numbing.

Had they said 18 classes, 3 realms, PvE zones to fight over, raids, maybe even the ability for user created content, it would have a better chance. Yes I understand they keeping their ambitions small and focused (class wise and gameplay wise) but what's the point if you cant make the game anyway? Why not go big? I enjoy PvP but man everyone needs some variety.

I think it's going to take a game that is very well rounded to rise to the top of the MMO world in the future. It would have all those things and more, maybe not done amazingly well at the beginning but at least the prospect of it.

I will say GL to MJ though but again, not throwing a bone to the PvE people or including anything new and revolutionary gameplay wise is a decision I would not have made.

 

excluding pve is actually revolutionary enough.

 

you are like someone who wants sth new, but doesn't wanna buy it because he is missing the old stuff.... doesn't make sense to me, but luckily it doesn't need to :>

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/22/13 7:59:25 AM#25
I won't fund a game, when they haven't put their money where their mouth is by making a demo first.

I'm not going to pledge for a list of ideas.

If they had developed a rough / smaller version before they launched the kickstarter campaign, things may have been different. The computer industry is littered with vapourware, I want some evidence before I commit.

The same applies with elite 4, I love elite, but the ks is just a list of ideas like cu.
  meddyck

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1134

4/22/13 8:31:46 AM#26
Originally posted by Docmandu
Originally posted by meddyck
 The number of classes is very disappointing. I don't find Mark's explanation for why he is doing it that way very convincing. Why is it harder to create a lot of classes now than it was 12 years and 2 MMOs ago? It should be easier.

I thought it was 5x3, as in 15 unique classes but only 5 archetypes... did I get the info wrong?!

I don't consider the crafter to be a real class since all of its skills could be done like a profession that any other class could train and nobody would notice the difference other than the few people who just really want to roleplay a character that is useless in combat. So there is 1 healer, 1 tank, 1 caster, and 1 hybrid or speeder in each realm. And maybe 1 archer if the first stretch goal is met. By comparison at launch DAOC had at least the following in each realm: 2 healers, 1 tank, 1 melee DPS, 1 melee hybrid, 1 speeder, 1 assassin, 1 archer, 1 dps caster, and 1 pet caster.

Camelot Unchained Backer
DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  UOlover

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/10
Posts: 332

4/22/13 8:40:42 AM#27
If they vaporware we'll get our money refunded. 
  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

4/22/13 8:41:56 AM#28
OP you mention gw2 which I'm a big fan of pve wise issue with pvp is there is no meta game really... Very few MMOs have large scale PvP with persistent deep meta games... That is something that will keep players playing day in and day out for a long time... I was not really a fan of daoc but after seeing the ideas this game is trying to accomplish I backed it..so guess we cancel each other out and the universe is in balance once again:)

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  GXRranger

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/07
Posts: 41

4/22/13 8:48:50 AM#29

If Wildstar were not what it is and being released this year I might have been on the bandwagon of Camelot Unchained.  I am glad to finally see a sci-fi MMO.

  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4262

4/22/13 8:53:22 AM#30
Originally posted by ShakyMo
I won't fund a game, when they haven't put their money where their mouth is by making a demo first.

I'm not going to pledge for a list of ideas.

If they had developed a rough / smaller version before they launched the kickstarter campaign, things may have been different. The computer industry is littered with vapourware, I want some evidence before I commit.

The same applies with elite 4, I love elite, but the ks is just a list of ideas like cu.

But then they could have wasted all the cash developing the small demo version of the game if it never made it on kickstarter..

Why waste cash if there is no call of the game..

So the best thing to do is run a kickstarter campaign laying out all your plans and maybe showing a few tech demos and so on..  if it makes it then he is going to put more of his cash into it and he has some small investors willing to put cash in..

 

Because its such a niche game he wanted to make sure people wanted it.

 

Now if your not happy putting your own cash in thats fair enough but i think he made the right choice now.. i would have made the same choice as well.

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4262

4/22/13 8:54:33 AM#31
Originally posted by GXRranger

If Wildstar were not what it is and being released this year I might have been on the bandwagon of Camelot Unchained.  I am glad to finally see a sci-fi MMO.

Wildstar is more like a wow clone in space from what i have been reading.. so nothing like CU..

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/22/13 9:09:57 AM#32
Yep wildstar is wow in space round 2.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/22/13 9:16:41 AM#33
Another issue is.

What I liked about daoc was it had a perfect balance of pve and pvp. That to me is one of the defining features of daoc. What other mmo has this perfect 50/50 split of pve & pvp, perhaps gw2, but to me gw2 is to daoc as wow is to EQ, a simplified casual version for the youngsters.

I've got a good enough rvr only game as is, planetside 2, sure its not as good as planetside or daocs frontiers, but its still good fun compared to the attempts of the last decade like war, aion and gw2.

I like the sound of the keep building and what have you, but other than that and the fantasy setting what does cu offer that ps2 doesn't, especially when ps2 is free to play.
  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2701

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

4/22/13 9:21:52 AM#34
Originally posted by Caldrin
Originally posted by GXRranger

If Wildstar were not what it is and being released this year I might have been on the bandwagon of Camelot Unchained.  I am glad to finally see a sci-fi MMO.

Wildstar is more like a wow clone in space from what i have been reading.. so nothing like CU..

Wow...just wow. Obviously the guy loves sci-if more than RvR and you want to get "cute" about it? Anyway. The reason I didn't back CU yet is exactly because it isn't a clone...a clone of DAoC that is. Plus I'd need a lot more to go on than what I've been reading...


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  Tuktz

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 310

4/22/13 9:38:23 AM#35

There are dozens of triple A big funded themepark mmo's to choose from. To say you won't fund or play this because they didn't follow their same model seems a little strange to me.

 

You talk about being sick of those games, but don't want to support one trying to do something more freeform and different, but then say it's because it's missing what those ones your sick of don't have?

 

Just confusing logic to me.

 

There are a TON like that out there to choose from, but NOTHING like CU is going to be like.

 


MMO history - EVE GW2 SWTOR RIFT WAR COH/V EQ2 WOW DAOC
Tuktz - http://www.heretic.shivtr.com/

  MightyPit

Novice Member

Joined: 11/21/02
Posts: 88

4/22/13 9:42:12 AM#36

I don't get it why so many people are so pessimistic about this project. This is not daoc 2. True! This has no pve. True! But this has so many wonderfull ideas how to put creation and destruction together. You do not only fight for a purpose, you build up for a purpose, too.

While I started supporting this project with daoc 2 in mind, I am glad to see the ideas envolving into something unique. This will not be the zergfest we celebrate in emain macha, the tides of war will move forward and backward. Players will defend the creations of their crafters, crafters will provide their warriors with new structures and bridge-heads every day. This will be so dynamically!

And if not, well, then it was a very kind try to bring something new. But to try out if it is ground breaking or sucking, the project has to fund first. Just have a little faith that your 25 bucks are invested wisely here and that you get a lot of fun playing the finished product  in return.

 

MMO's played so far:
UO,EQ,DAOC,EQ2,GW,ROM,WOW,WAR,AOC,LOTRO,RIFT,TSW,GW2,POE
Looking forward to: Camelot Unchained, Star Citizen

  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4262

4/22/13 9:52:53 AM#37
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by Caldrin
Originally posted by GXRranger

If Wildstar were not what it is and being released this year I might have been on the bandwagon of Camelot Unchained.  I am glad to finally see a sci-fi MMO.

Wildstar is more like a wow clone in space from what i have been reading.. so nothing like CU..

Wow...just wow. Obviously the guy loves sci-if more than RvR and you want to get "cute" about it? Anyway. The reason I didn't back CU yet is exactly because it isn't a clone...a clone of DAoC that is. Plus I'd need a lot more to go on than what I've been reading...

No sorry didnt mean it to come accross like that.. im actually a massive sci-fi fan but really dont like the sound or the look of wildstar.. plus there are other sci-fi mmos available..

 

 

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2701

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

4/22/13 10:01:24 AM#38
Originally posted by Caldrin
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by Caldrin
Originally posted by GXRranger

If Wildstar were not what it is and being released this year I might have been on the bandwagon of Camelot Unchained.  I am glad to finally see a sci-fi MMO.

Wildstar is more like a wow clone in space from what i have been reading.. so nothing like CU..

Wow...just wow. Obviously the guy loves sci-if more than RvR and you want to get "cute" about it? Anyway. The reason I didn't back CU yet is exactly because it isn't a clone...a clone of DAoC that is. Plus I'd need a lot more to go on than what I've been reading...

No sorry didnt mean it to come accross like that.. im actually a massive sci-fi fan but really dont like the sound or the look of wildstar.. plus there are other sci-fi mmos available..

 

 

Fair enough and duly noted. Tone can never be conveyed properly by using words typed. Which is why it's wise to pick them carefully. I'm just hoping that the sound and look of CU is something I can get into. I really would love to see what MJ comes up with. We need more diversity in this genre not less.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  DeviDemon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/12
Posts: 26

4/22/13 10:14:51 AM#39

I doubt many people will be playing Wildstar in 1 year much less in 2-3 years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  Vendac

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 39

4/22/13 10:54:38 AM#40

Originally posted by MikeJezZ

I understand your concerns. However, I think you did forget about how cool PvP can be.

I describe myself as a die hard PvP fan. I hate PvE in MMOs in general. I always rushed when playing WoW and a new expansion released, to max level just for being able to PvP. I'm sick of boring quests, dungeons and raids. Fighting the same big ass mob every week is just not my cup of tea.

Guild Wars 2. I was so hyped on this title. It landed, got blasted away with the graphics. The graphics in this game was awesome. Sadly, it was the only awesome about it. GW2 lacked feeling of progression, and nothing really feels important in the game, besides just keyboard smashing.

I know I ofended some GW2 fans there, but really - there is no progress or anything in GW2.

Try some fun PvP games, I'm sure it will change your mind. Sadly there's not alot of them around, because people want PvE for some reason.

I loved Warhammer Online RvR for an example, but GW2 RvR feels so meaningless compared to Warhammer Online, and that is what makes it count. To have a meaning.

In War Online, you gain PvP rank and will be able to get better gear. In GW2 you just.... Kill or get killed.

Originally posted by Wylf
In the End you may be right. On the other hand, it seems that at some point in time in every MMO that I have played the PvP crowd starts to complain about the lack of variety and a lack of a world PvP server.  The latest is Rift, their forums are full of complaints. Though there is one server that is dedicated to PvP it apparently is not good enough.   I do not begrudge those who want to play PvP their fun.  So I am hoping that CU works and gives the PvP fans a place to go.

Well, played Rift since launch. Rift is not really a PvP game.

It is a PvE game with PvP as a niche, just like World of Warcraft.

I yellowed the text of the important statements in this quote.

I played GW2.  Fun game, but very shallow at the end.  The PvP in it is simply OK, but has no real consequences or rewards to hold peoples attention.  I also got tired of wanting to PvP with friends but having to wait 2 hours in Q to get in was BS.  They also artificially limited the amount of people in the PvP area which makes no sense in a 3 sided fight.   

I also played Rift and on a PvP server at that.  Not a bad game, but it is a WoW clone.  It had a chance to be very cool but design decisions like very cramped open world areas and some horrible immunity timer issues ruined it from a PvP standpoint

Originally posted by Scalpless


Originally posted by MikeJezZ

I know I ofended some GW2 fans there, but really - there is no progress or anything in GW2.

Yeah, that sucks for some people. I guess it's a good thing the lack of vertical progression was one of the most marketed features of GW2, so the ones who bought it despite frequenting sites like this can only blame themselves and their lack of reading comprehension.

You hit it on the head.  The cool thing about GW2 was the lack of vertical progression.  However the complete lack of horizontal progression at end game is what killed it for me and my entire guild.

Originally posted by KaiserPhoenix

the game is also not competing with just current mmos, but with the ones coming out in the next 3+ years.

Chances are, that the game's niche might be even smaller then, since many pvpers will be spread over multiple AAA games .

Very unlikely.  Most PvPers do NOT want to do PvE.  Why do you think games like LoL are so popular?  If you bring players together in a static environment and actually give them something to fight for you will pull those people that are all about PvP in.

Originally posted by Tuktz

There are dozens of triple A big funded themepark mmo's to choose from. To say you won't fund or play this because they didn't follow their same model seems a little strange to me.

You talk about being sick of those games, but don't want to support one trying to do something more freeform and different, but then say it's because it's missing what those ones your sick of don't have?

Just confusing logic to me.

There are a TON like that out there to choose from, but NOTHING like CU is going to be like.

I wish these forums had a +/- 1 system in place.  QFT.

Originally posted by DeviDemon

I doubt many people will be playing Wildstar in 1 year much less in 2-3 years.

As do I.  Another +1

 

The ammount of FUD and misinformation for CU is pretty unbelievable.  People dont want to put money down.  Then dont.  But dont sit there and piss and moan when nothing ever changes in the MMO genre because people dont have the sack to drop a few bucks on what could be a potentially a big game changer.

You cant fix stupid - Ron White

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