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WildStar

WildStar 

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98 posts found
  Karelia

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/12
Posts: 688

4/21/13 2:10:58 PM#21
i like what i see by wildstar so far and i m waiting for it, but not as a sub game. hope it will be b2p.
  Thupli

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 392

4/21/13 2:15:19 PM#22
Originally posted by Vembumees
jerks =/= morons

I think that you get the point though.

 

Neither jerks nor morons are affected by subscription vs f2p vs b2p models.

  Yaevindusk

Elite Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1147

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

4/21/13 2:16:58 PM#23

 

Hard to say as you will have to have a good feel of the game before you know how it will do in the market.  I'm not even sure of the overall health of the market as is, or how the inevitable increase of multiplayer and social games with the future consoles (which will blur the line between MMO and MO) will change the mindsets of players (though I assume many of the P2P club will start questioning it's validity).  In the MMORPG video about crafting they went into depth about payment models, thinking of the pros and cons of the payment models.  F2P seems to be out the window, though B2P and P2P seem like possible candidates still.

Though many are tired of paying monthly for their games when there are better options out there.  In fact, the difference is greater than I predicted six months ago between payment models.  Add to that, that the "newblood" of MMO players will pretty much only tolerate B2P models (as they're from the console market and don't like "renting" their games) and you could see the future fold out before you.  We pretty much peaked in terms of the amount of players available and ready to partake in these plans as MMOs are now.  That is not to say that we've peaked in creativity or potential, it's just that time is running out on MMOs being exclusively "massive" (in terms of players online) as new technologies and connections are being established on the market.

It would be safe to assume any gamer that would come over hasn't because of it either being a computer exclusive genre (something new consoles will likely help fix) or the fact that many think us fools for basically buying access to the same game we purchased a box for month after month.  In that, I may actually concur whole heartedly with their assessment, as I have spent about $3,500 on WoW alone what with about $1600 just from monthly fees from a single account (with me having multiple accounts, having to buy boxes and expansions for each, and paying for my girlfriend's).  It's a harsh reminder for me never to play another P2P game again, and especially painful that all that time was wasted as I don't have access to the game I paid $3,500 for and the characters I spent my time working on.

To this day I only play P2P games if they offer a lifesub (money isn't an issue, but morality on the grounds of having to rent a game are; I no longer believe the rhetoric that it's all for bandwidth costs and box/shops cover staff and future content in spades if they have a competent plan) and other than that I only play B2P games and give F2P games their fair shot as well.  I'm uncertain of their thought process, but if they intend to go P2P and then plan to go B2P or F2P down the road I'll lose respect for them.  Sometimes it's needed to save a game, but actually planning to do that rifles my feathers as they try to suck as much out of players before going on a new marketing campaign to sell boxes and then get more out of the same players (and new) through cash shops (which I love personally in B2P/F2P games if implemented correctly as you support a game, sitll have access to the game you bought, and get a little something for the extra money you spend).

They have the facts and figures, and a business doesn't usually operate on moral grounds.  I just hope they don't go the way of nearly every P2P game that has come out the past decade or so; there is no perfect game, and the small P2P community is further splintered by the fact everyone likes different things.  When you think about it, it makes sense why Mr. Jacobs keeps on saying he wants a niche game and a niche community; all P2P games that were released in the past year "failed" (most will say a game failed if they go F2P or B2P after launch, so that's another thing to plan for if they go the underhanded route and plan the change) and only a niche game with a super cult like following will be able to survive the next generation under the P2P model (unless MMOs drastically change what they are to something consoles can't replicate).

 

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  Zapzap

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/31/13
Posts: 206

4/21/13 8:31:34 PM#24

With a game focused on endgame it does not make much sense to go F2P.  The Focus of F2P games and F2P content is to get short term players to spend money before they quit the game.  Endgame is something F2P players don't generally do.  With the focus on endgame Carbine is sending a message they want long term subscription veteran type players.  But Carbine has also said they might do soem cash shop items for fluff items like some housing items. 

Which makes one think the may go with a hybrid model of subscription for the long term subs and B2P for the short term players who do not have the patience to play a MMO very long and for the unltra casual players.  Such a system would mean some resources would have to be shifted from endgame content to make content to seperate the short term players from ther parents money.  But  Carbine already has said they plan to provide content for all playstyles and they do  appear to have a very broad amount of content they intend to include at release.  A hybrid model while distatefull to many vteran MMO players may not be terrible and it may mean more money for Carbine along more resources to make  content for real players.

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

 
OP  4/21/13 8:34:15 PM#25
Originally posted by Zapzap

With a game focused on endgame it does not make much sense to go F2P.  The Focus of F2P games and F2P content is to get short term players to spend money before they quit the game.  Endgame is something F2P players don't generally do. 

My question has been answered so why are you replying with massive general misconceptions about a market you clearly know nothing about? Any that knows anything about F2P games knows you are wrong so there is no point in you trying to fool anyone.

Oh wait, do you think that F2P games like Atlantica Online, Runes of Magic and so many others have been around for 4+ years based on a continual supply of new players and no end game?!?

  Vorch

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/11
Posts: 761

4/21/13 8:37:32 PM#26

Would prefer B2P. Looks promising.

 

No one knows, yet.

"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days— those are now the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2

  Pivotelite

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/12
Posts: 2189

4/21/13 8:44:29 PM#27

Sub with free content updates(no expansions) is the best model IMO.

 

I absolutely loathe the sub+expansion nonsense.

  Eir_S

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4694

GW2 socialist.

4/21/13 8:46:58 PM#28
If it's a sub I probably won't play it for more than a few months, if that.  It looks like a good game, but I already did the sub scam model.
  issling

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/09/12
Posts: 122

I have my rose tinted glass's at a full shine!

4/21/13 9:00:31 PM#29
P2P and if  this game it any good it will stay that way.  And if it is not then it will be thrown onto the f2p pile with the rest of them.
  Doctorhoo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/13
Posts: 85

4/21/13 9:11:05 PM#30
The Way the Game is Generating Hype and Released Videos look quite amazing.  I have no doubt it will do well in any model they start with.  From a Business standpoint, B2P (aka Secret World or GW2) with microtransactions would certainly go over well imo.  But from the released info, we really have no idea.

http://silverdragons-lair.net/

  furbans

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 874

4/21/13 9:49:36 PM#31
Originally posted by Joekra
Originally posted by Thupli
Originally posted by Joekra
 

Yet from all mmo's I gave a real chance I played GW2 for the least time and had the least fun.

I understand your feelings, but at the same time, sub/payment methods do not correlate to gameplay or enjoyment.  They are totally unrelated.

Not totally unrelated. If you as dev know you will have that steady income from subs you can plan ahead. All I'm saying is that I generally trust mmo's with subs more long term than I do f2p and b2p.

And yet they have continuously released content and show no signs of slowing down.  The model is pretty irrelevent as a game that is bad is just plain bad at its core and the model won't help it.  B2P is a sound and perfectly justifyable model.

I personally don't trust P2P MMOs as name an MMO that started as P2P that maintained success and kept its model.  Rift, if it still has a sub, is the only one that I can recall what hasn't been downgraded to B2P or F2P.

P2P I don't like as I tend to be quite busy and busier in the future and a 15 dollar sub isn't justifiable.  I hope they go with the B2P route and god forbid a F2P route that are imo the kiss of death.

  Yaevindusk

Elite Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1147

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

4/21/13 11:10:29 PM#32
Originally posted by furbans
Originally posted by Joekra
Originally posted by Thupli
Originally posted by Joekra
 

Yet from all mmo's I gave a real chance I played GW2 for the least time and had the least fun.

I understand your feelings, but at the same time, sub/payment methods do not correlate to gameplay or enjoyment.  They are totally unrelated.

Not totally unrelated. If you as dev know you will have that steady income from subs you can plan ahead. All I'm saying is that I generally trust mmo's with subs more long term than I do f2p and b2p.

And yet they have continuously released content and show no signs of slowing down.  The model is pretty irrelevent as a game that is bad is just plain bad at its core and the model won't help it.  B2P is a sound and perfectly justifyable model.

I personally don't trust P2P MMOs as name an MMO that started as P2P that maintained success and kept its model.  Rift, if it still has a sub, is the only one that I can recall what hasn't been downgraded to B2P or F2P.

P2P I don't like as I tend to be quite busy and busier in the future and a 15 dollar sub isn't justifiable.  I hope they go with the B2P route and god forbid a F2P route that are imo the kiss of death.

 

I'd agree with the assertion that most anyone who believes P2P is more "reliable" is probably going off of past information on long dead payment models.  The only real examples we have of B2P at the start is GW2, and that is releasing monthly content and massive changes to the world when relevent to the story or the season in real life.  It's great to see it put out patches faster than every six months.  This is mainly just a case of people being afraid of new ground or placing things they know (usually bad, as it goes back to sticking with what you know or rhetoric others told you) in place to explain the unknown.

There is no reason a P2P game is more "trustworthy" than a B2P or P2P game.  In fact, more P2P games have shut down or converted than any F2P game in the past decade.  We also cannot forget the flops that tried to pass off as P2P games such as Carpe Diem, which closed about a half year into it's life and basically just ran away with the box price money and all the monthly fees it could squeeze out of people (in addition to it's cash shop).  If subscribers is a way to figure out if the game is good or not, then why is it that we see nearly every P2P game not reach acceptable income?  If the answer is because they aren't great games, and one would gladly play a great game, then what of the original statement that P2P games are more trustworthy?  

Let's stop beating around the bush and just say what a MMO has become in recent years.  It's an all out cash grab with people wanting a piece of the pie.  It has brought about a premium of $15 a month (when it was only $9 back when bandwidth was actually expensive) and micro transactions.  Some are a bit more guilty of explotation than others depending on if they have the box + sub + cash shop or not.  Games that aren't great will be released with P2P to get their money and milk people who would play it until they reached a point where it would be more lucrative to transition to B2P or F2P.  This is actually covered in MMORPG's interview of Wildstar.  That P2P is good for getting your money back early, and then going F2P.  This also seems to be the general direction big titles in the last few years have "secretly" planned on doing.  Is this trustworth behavior?

Also thinking of the fact that everyone has different tastes, and so a "great" game is almost impossible to get "universally" great unless you get lucky and become a cultural phenom.  We need new payment models, but B2P seems to be intrinsically less volatile and or scandalous than the other two in a variety of ways.  It may just be because that model has been around for as long as consoles have, minus the micro transactions to help pay for staffing and future updates.  It will also be key in the future when the new generation of consoles are capable of running massive worlds and have their improved social connectivity.

We're stuck with thinking it's "only $15" a month mindsets.  That we can buy a meal at a restaurant for that (and it would only last an hour) or go to the movies.  This is a thought that we were led to believe over the course of the years as reasonings were given to accept renting our games.  Companies look at the big picture; as an example, Square Enix said that their most financially successful game was FFXI.  World of Warcraft has made tens of billions since launching.  I myself have paid $3,500 on WoW alone, with a single account of mine tallying up to $1,600 (since release) for a single game.

I used to say that people such as my brother didn't understand, and that MMOs were a different beast in the gaming category.  Though now I realize that he was right in calling me a fool for "renting" a game, and wasting all that time as I cannot play that game that I spent over three thousand dollars for or access the characters I worked on all these years.  I believe in supporting developers, and will likely spend $15 a month regardless on aesthetics (not to mention getting something new) if I play a game, but being forced into a renting mentality and then having everything held for ransom when I've had enough was a terrible blow for me.  Three thousand five hundred dollars for a game I am not allowed to play.  I feel like I've rented furniture, and it doesn't feel good.

 

/sadface

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  Sho0terMcgavin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/13/13
Posts: 318

4/21/13 11:29:20 PM#33
I would prefer B2P like GW2.  If not, then P2P.  F2P I will play, but its my least favorite.  

  Mathadar

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/05
Posts: 24

4/22/13 2:53:16 AM#34
Still waiting for a company can show me they can produce a game with the content of WoW on a b2p model. Hell all the sub based games are failing to do so. 
  Yalexy

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 1020

4/22/13 3:53:59 AM#35

From all the MMOs I'Ve played and tested during the years, P2P-titles are the ones that were best.

The subscription leads to better maintenance of the games usually and it ususally has more balanced PvP aswell.

If Wildstar goes B2P or F2P from the start, then my hopes for this one are really low, when it comes to longevity and I probably won't bother playing it at all.

Allthough alot of P2P-titles have gone F2P afterwards, I got atleast some 4-6 month worth the subscription (AoC, SWTOR and TSW f.e.), before they turned into F2P-titles. And I'd rather take these enjoyable 4-6 month @ $10-15/month then wasting my time with a F2P-title.

After seven years of EvE Online with three accounts, thats my measurement, when it comes to price vs. performance vs. fun vs. longevity and to this date no other MMO has beaten EvE Online in that regard tbfh.
Funnily enough WoW would be second on my list here.... now go figure.

  Eir_S

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4694

GW2 socialist.

4/22/13 7:42:56 AM#36
Originally posted by Mathadar
Still waiting for a company can show me they can produce a game with the content of WoW on a b2p model. Hell all the sub based games are failing to do so. 

See you in 10 years.

  Tokenaru

Novice Member

Joined: 1/26/13
Posts: 61

4/22/13 7:47:57 AM#37

They mentioned in a dev video the importance of having enough content to justify a subscription as being very important to them.

Im all for a Sub it prevents pay to win tactics and the whole elitest aspect of gated content and cash shops.

  shadow9d9

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 363

4/22/13 7:56:32 AM#38
Originally posted by Shodanas
Originally posted by Joekra

You didn't find anything on the topic because there is nothing. From what we can read Carbine simply doesn't know yet as they focus on the developement before focusing on the marketing + sales.

 

 

Originally posted by Thupli

Nothing official yet.

 

With it being NCSoft, I am hopeful they will go with a GW2 model of B2P with a cosmetic/vanity cash shop.  I think there is a good chance of that.

I'm not sure, I still feel safer on the sub side regarding future content, patches and quality overall.

GW2 is a prime example of how an mmo can be of the highest quality in every aspect without the sub model.

Except that GW2 was derivitive garbage with no staying power...

  Mechanism

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/21/09
Posts: 100

4/22/13 8:00:30 AM#39
Well if it does choose to use a sub i'd avoid buying the box in the first few months. Reason being the population is gonna drop just like any game (good or bad) at which point you can start getting really good deals on the box price.
  Derros

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 993

4/22/13 8:03:18 AM#40
Originally posted by shadow9d9
Originally posted by Shodanas
Originally posted by Joekra

You didn't find anything on the topic because there is nothing. From what we can read Carbine simply doesn't know yet as they focus on the developement before focusing on the marketing + sales.

 

 

Originally posted by Thupli

Nothing official yet.

 

With it being NCSoft, I am hopeful they will go with a GW2 model of B2P with a cosmetic/vanity cash shop.  I think there is a good chance of that.

I'm not sure, I still feel safer on the sub side regarding future content, patches and quality overall.

GW2 is a prime example of how an mmo can be of the highest quality in every aspect without the sub model.

Except that GW2 was derivitive garbage with no staying power...

I still like it, and plenty of other people do too.  One man's garbage is another man's ect ect

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