|9 posts found|
OP 4/19/13 6:47:21 PM#1
To give a little background, I've played a lot of mmos, starting back with DAOC in 2001.
I've just grown tired of all the hold your hand, themepark sytyle mmos of the modern genre.
I tried out EVE 6 months ago, and have been hooked. Seems like it has nearly everything I remember liking about the mmo genre, without the newer casual friendly protect you from any risk concept adopted by so many. If I want to take greater risk for greater reward, let me! Newer mmos won't even let you take risk haha.
With that said, I haven't been in a hurry to do anything in particular in EVE, which has been half the fun. I've just been trying a bit of several things, seeing how I like it.
I started out mining, got into a retriever, just did that for a while enjoying making money, but of course got bored of only doing that.
Switched to amarr laser ships for a short while, getting up core combat skills, plus got up to amarr cruiser 3, and some gunnery skills. Realized amarr ships weren't exactly ideal for guristas in caldari space, and switched to gallente hybrid turret ships, plus tried a few drone boats. Did that all the way up through bcs and right when I got my first battleship, I got my brother started playing.
While he was starting out, I switched back to mining, and got into exhumers and all tech 2 fittings on my exhumer (strip miner 2, tech 2 crystals, tech 2 mlus, tech 2 mining drones). He was kind of mish/mashing mostly mining training with caldari missile boat training at that time.
Once I got my exhumer all set up, I switched back to combat. However for a change of pace, plus to kind of be where my brothers at training wise, I switched to caldari missile boats. It was almost like starting over with combat, but thats cool cause I was doing it with my bro.
Anyway, fast forward to now, and I have a tech 2 fitted out drake, and a nearly all tech 2 fitted out caldari navy raven. I do level 3 missions really well, and have only started out level 4's but so far so good on my first half a dozen. My bro is up to drakes, and pretty much if he comes along we can handle any 3 or 4.
It's fun, but here's what I'm trying to decide now, that I thought some input wouldn't hurt.
I plan on keep on mostly mission running, with some mining here and there for a change of pace (I also have an alt account with a decked out noctis for loot/salvaging my combat missions, and that char can also fly iteron mark 5 and obelisk to haul for mining or whatever, with decent refining as well as trading skills). I guess my bro and I are mostly mining / combat missions in high sec at this point.
We haven't ruled out pvp yet, we just know we're both so new we want to get a little established first haha, and figure out what we like doing.
I guess my question is whether to stick with caldari missile boats and missile skills. At this point, getting into tech 2 (golem) and tech 3 (tengu) is a dedication of a lot more training time, plus getting all my missile skills even higher.
Pretty much all my missile skills are at 4.
I've been looking up "best" level 4 mission running ships, and seeing a lot of machariel/nightmare faction ships, plus tech 2 variants of the main faction ships, plus tech 3 strategic cruisers (tengu, loki, etc..)
Plus something I've been considering, is that if we also ever want to get into pvp, or do incursions/worhholes/etc..., more instant damage type turret ships are preferable to missiles for those.
Also with turret ships, with gunnery skills, you can easily cross train into other turret ships (hybrid, laser, projectile).
Currently my gunnery support skills are all at 3, which is less than my missiles, but I can catch up easily enough if I switch.
If I do decide to switch, I guess the question is, switch to what? (if I even should switch)
I've been running missions out of caldari space, doing spacelane patrol for caldari, and republic security forces for minmitar.
I don't think it would take me long to switch to minmitar, and that would open up for the machariel someday (although short term, hurricane & maelstrom). Plus I also like how they look aesthetically, and like the option to change damage type.
I realize someday I could cross train, and perhaps have more options for mission running (laser ships for em/therm missions, projectile for others, etc..) however I think in the near term I need to focus, and get deeper into a path. I don't want to stay spread TOO thing forever haha.
I guess my options are open. It would be a hassle, but I could switch to laser ships and move down to amarr space for mission running if I had to. SO far I've liked being within 8 jumps of JITA though.
So would switching to minmitar at this point be a good idea? with projectile/gunnery, hurricane/maelstrom and someday the macheriel?
Or go laser, with a few more logistic issues of uprooting, but going laser/gunnery, harbinger/battleship and someday nightmare?
or some other option I haven't thought of. minmitar seems to open up more options, but opinions more than welcome.
It does kind of suck to be so close to tengu though. I could probably fit one out pretty decent in less than a month of training at this point. not sure I need it that desparately though with the drake/cnr though.
Sorry for rambling!
Hard Core Member
4/19/13 6:59:30 PM#2
I'd say it depends on how seriously you're thinking about starting to PvP. If you intend to dabble at it and spend most of your time running missions there's little point in changing now. There are some pretty effective HAM Drake builds on Battle Clinic if you just want the odd PvP fix.
If it's something you think you might want to get more invested in then I'd go Minmatar and Projectiles. Minmatar ships can be very versatile when it comes to fits.
I'm not a huge fan of lasers due to them being so cap intensive.
Hard Core Member
The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.
4/19/13 7:07:24 PM#3
zealot fleets are the only amarr doctrine i got to participate in and they're very fun.
now OP, you can o plenty of mining etc with a little pvp on the side in an alliance so if you get to a 0.0 alliance you'll train their doctrines. no need to decide on your own when/what to switch into. alliance policies can guide you there.
OP 4/19/13 7:14:18 PM#4
Originally posted by jmcdermottuk
Since Im still in tech 1 ships, and tech 2 fittings, plus I don't think I'm that far behind on training if I switched from caldari/missiles to minmitar/projectile, it wouldn't take me long to catch up at all. Plus with my prior training I did from earlier I have a head start.
Plus a lot of my training focus lately has been kind of core stuff. Getting level 5 of all the major skills (engineering, electronics, navigation, gunnery, missiles, mechanics). Also I"im a couple days from weapon upgrades 5, then I can get advanced weapon upgrades 4 pretty quick.
I guess to this point I've kind of subconsciously kept my options fairly open. Also decent drone skills.
I'm more thinking of, if I have to pick a path for tech 2/3 ships, and go further into the weapon skills, nows the time to pick for certain haha.
I think I'm heavily leaning towards minmitar though.
Hard Core Member
4/19/13 7:20:27 PM#5
I made a toon in 06 and he can now fly all 4 races to BS including T2 ships to cruisers and 3 races in the T3 Strategic cruisers, he can also mine, build, scan, this, that....go with what feels good for you. I strongly suggest taking a trip on a race with gunning skills to augument your missle skills especially if yer gonna pvp. Best advice...find a decent helpful corp like eve university and let them guide you til you want to spread yer wings so to speak. Fly safe and enjoy the ride.
"A very special kind of stupidity"
4/20/13 1:24:16 AM#6
The Raven is about to get a big buff (which hopefully will carry over to the Navy Raven), and a HUGE buff (+31% DPS) for Cruise Missiles has already been announced. It's likely that the CNR will be the king of level 4 mission boats when the changes go live.
However, since you cite getting away from scripted handholding in your MMO experience, I will also note that Odessey is supposed to be about exploration and discovery; you might want to consider training up some exploration skills (eg: the Astrometrics skill tree, along with Hacking, Archeology and Covert Ops ships) in preperation.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
OP 4/20/13 8:41:41 AM#7
I've noticed projectile turrets have pretty short optimal range, and pretty long falloff.
Does that mean I should expect to fight somewhere in between?
I flew amarr/laser and gallente/hybrid for a while, and I don't remember their optimal being so short, or their falloff so far. Think I usually kept at optimal range.
Just curious. Gotten so used to not having to worry about turret issues since I've been flyin missile boats haha.
4/20/13 2:52:50 PM#8
It reads to me that you are all over the place skill training and to really get anywhere in EVE you have to focus thanks to the real time training system or it will take you forever to find that happy place man. This is just not a game where you can be good at everything “right now.” You will have to make choices, stick with them, and accept that they all have pluses and minuses.
So much depends on what you really want to do in game and that’s what I am tailoring my advice towards here. When I read you it seems like you need to focus on getting good at running L4's to get enough money to open the door into everything else...
With the upcoming changes in Odyssey to ship load outs and missiles in particular the simple cavalry Raven will be one of the better mission ships for L4s especially when it comes to bang for your buck calculations vs what you risk. If you want to specialize in missions your ultimate goal really should be skilling up to sit a Marauder class vessel. As a class, they preform solo L4 missions better than anything else in game, even bringing their own salvage and trac for clean up without losing firepower for slotting them. You would be looking at the Golem.
If you want to run Incursions as a shooter you want to work on your hybrid gunnery skills and learn to fly a Rokh after securing your money maker. In truth, it could be a solid mission running ship in its own right with salvage support from a friend or while multi-boxing. Have a look HERE for Incursion fits.
Missiles will always see use in PVP. I can’t imagine EVE without Drake blobs. No weapon system is perfect. Missiles are slow. Lasers are one damage type. Arty is terrible at tracking and slow. Hybrids... well they are hybrids. You are worried over the damage target delay a little too much. It’s the wrong thing to consider. The real power in Caldari pvp ships is in EWAR. This is particularly true of their EWAR cruisers which frankly can mess anyone’s day up. Bring some tacklers with that small gang and watch the booms from people with no hope of shooting back.
That’s the thing with PVP. Only fly what you can afford to lose because you likely will lose it. Think about buying cheap and fun rather than faction ships with the best meta and T2. You don’t want to be the pride of everyone else’s kill board. You are not liable to see “a lot” of Battleship PVP early on outside of going to Null. Start getting your chops wet with frigates in RvB or FW and then see where you want to go. Understand that some corps maintain standardized ship fits they require you to fly and will replace sometimes. I would not be looking at PVP as just a solo activity, particularly early on.
In your situation, I would only worry about cross training once you have mastered the ships for your chosen roles for your faction as they are the simplest goals to reach. They all have pluses and minuses that will stick out. Worry about flying pirate faction and T3 when you can really afford them. Frankly, I have always seen them as fun boat that can preform well but usually there is something much cheaper and efficient that will serve just as well or better.
If you cross train Minmatar the upcoming Typhoon is a missile ship that will be a monster and it can be used while working on those projectile skills. I personally like the Talwar too for a decent PVP ship in say FW. The thing with Minmatar ships though is that they are very diverse and require a lot of skill training in differing fields from armor and shield tanks to missiles, guns, and drones. But they are vulnerable to EWAR for all that shooting variety from just about everyone else.
A lot is going to depend on what you like. You can throw my advice away and continue to be all scattered in haphazard in what you do. Really it boils down to what you find fun as not everyone really wants to be good at any one thing.
OP 4/22/13 9:12:12 AM#9
Yeah think I'll go minmitar. Hurricane->Maelstrom->Loki/Machariel/Vargur all sound really fun. I think I could stick with that long term.
Would be a fun combo if my bro is flying CNR or tengu later too. His missiles, and our combined drones, could easily take out anything that gets inside my tracking (if with two of us that even happens LOL).
Think I'm only a few days away from hurricane, and like a week from maelstrom. Then I just gotta get projectile turrets up. I already have a good baseline of gunnery skills (gunnery 5 with 3 or 4 in all the support skills).
Mach sounds pretty cool, cause you can fit autocannons if fighting angels, or swap some fittings around and fit 1200 arties when facing longer range enemies like guristas. Also I like being able to pick my damage type (sorta like drones and missiles) Thought about hybrids and lasers, but I don't think I'd like being limited to one damage type. Hybrids were a close second though. Have heard good things about megathron/kronos.
Something I'm curious about though. I can run level 4's with both spacelane patrol (caldari) and republic security forces (minmitar). If my bro and I are teaming up for level 4's mostly, would that combo of missile boat and projectile gunship do better in caldari space or minmitar space? ( I guess fighting guristas vs fighting angels)
Guristas seems to like to sit out at 45-70 km, hit with kinetic/thermal, and jam your targetting.
Angels seem to like to get in closer than 45km, hit with explosive/kinetic, and web / target paint you.
Tempted to say run this duo in minmitar space, because then I could fit autocannons. =)