|31 posts found|
OP 4/15/13 3:17:15 AM#1
If you see anything out of place, I would appriciate you telling me. I have been looking for a while, and I want to try to put it together myself. Haven't done it yet, always bought them together. Also, I was thinking of getting a lot of it from Amazon, they have the same prices basically as Newegg, except for like the cpu/mb combos. Has anyone bought stuff from Amazon and had a problem returning it and such? The reason being, I can get probably about $80 worth of free gas, if I buy gift cards for Amazon at Giant Eagle!
Samsung standard DVD drive, $18
COOLER MASTER HAF 922 case $99 (+10 mail rebate, so $89, They were out of the Antec case I was looking at, probably one of the most undecided items I have looked at).
Intel Core i5-3570K and ASUS P8Z77-V LK combo $290 ($55 savings due to combo, and $15 mail rebate)
G Skill ripjaw 2x 8 GB memory DDR1333 $107 (should I get different/faster memory?)
Corsair HX750 750 W 80+ gold $130 ($10 mail rebate)
Samsung 840 pro 256 GB SSD $220
EVGA GTX 680 4GB FTW w/ backplate $570 (no need for 4GB now, but not a huge price difference from 2GB, if I do maybe need it in a year or 2 was the thinking)
Last but not least, the beloved Windows 8 64 bit $100
Total $1534, with $35 mail in rebates and all free shipping, so $1500.
Prices are all the same, or a little cheaper on Amazon, minus the combo, and I do live near a microcenter and can save a couple bucks, but once you add taxes and gas, its about the same so probably not worth the 20 minute drive each way.
Thanks in advance for any input. I have a keyboard/mouse and monitor btw. I usually play in 1920 x 1080 on mmos also, which I know usually isn't demanding on video memory, but figure some games now can get close to pushing or using the 2GB it seems.
4/15/13 9:34:34 AM#2
There's no hard drive there. That's fine if the SSD has plenty of capacity for you. Just don't be disappointed that you don't have 2 TB of capacity.
That's too much to pay for that memory, especially at only 1333 MHz. You can get 1600 MHz memory with good specs for cheaper:
Yes, that says it's AMD memory, but it's actually made by Patriot. Basically, Patriot pays AMD a bit to let them use the AMD logo on their memory. Patriot actually has a similar deal with Intel, too. And their "AMD" and "Intel" memory could easily be exactly the same underneath the heatspreader.
That's a nice power supply, but it's also rather expensive, and you really don't need 750 W. Some cheaper options that are still very nice:
Or, if you love big rebates, there's this:
That's way too much to pay for a GeForce GTX 680. The GTX 680 is way overpriced. It used to try to justify that as being Nvidia's top card, but it's not even that anymore. You can get a faster card for a lot cheaper:
Or, if you like big rebates:
Or if you want ridiculous amounts of video memory, there's also this:
Thinking you need more than 3 GB of video memory is rather ridiculous, though.
4/15/13 6:41:17 PM#3
I dont see anything wrong with what you put together. But like Quiz posted you are over paying for a few items.
I would personally go with the 7970 over the 680, for the price difference if nothing else. If you just must go Nvidia and have the money to burn then the 680 would be a very nice card. Otherwise the ATI card is just as good and cheaper.
I have no experience with returns on Amazon so no advice there. You will have to price compare and see if the $80 bucks in gas makes up for ordering from amazon.
4/15/13 7:01:36 PM#4
Nvidias cards seem to be compatible with a larger procent of games than ATis cards do. So i'd prefer the Nvidia card over ATi. However with your SSD choice, the Samsung 840 (pro or non-pro) is cheaper if you take the 250 GB version instead of 256, you'll save about 30$ or something :)
Otherwise a good build :) Though i prefer to create my case myself :P
4/15/13 8:17:12 PM#5
Originally posted by nagelzz
Nonsense. Can you name a single game that is compatible with discrete Nvidia video cards but not AMD? Even one? AMD cards are compatible with all of the industry standard APIs; Nvidia actually isn't, lacking support for both DirectX 11.1 and OpenCL 1.2, though one could reasonably argue that neither of those matter much.
As for a cheaper SSD, the Samsung 840 non-pro is cheaper than the 840 Pro for a reason. It uses TLC NAND rather than MLC, which means lower performance and much worse write endurance. While the normal 840 is still a nice budget SSD if you can find it at a suitable budget-friendly price, it's cheaper precisely because it's not as good.
But if you want a budget SSD, then the budget price tag is important. Either of these are cheaper than the Samsung 840 and still decent:
SanDisk had to write their own firmware for the former, which does create a meaningful risk. Or for the same price as the Samsung 840 non-Pro, I'd sooner get this:
Basically the same controller as the SanDisk Ultra Plus, so Plextor also had to write their own firmware, but they've been at it for longer and are more likely to have any glitches worked out by now.
I don't see any good reason to get a TLC SSD for the same price as a known good MLC SSD.
OP 4/16/13 1:46:32 AM#6
Thank you for the input, I was worried about being too close to the 'required' speciification on the video card, So I was looking at like 700+, but I guess I am not running too much else, so a quality 650 would probably do.
The Nvidea, I know they use to be slower with drivers, but that was a long time ago, probably been 5-6 years since I have owned a ATI card. So it had stuck in my head, fair or not, to go with Nvidea. Also, 3 GB would be plenty, and no need for 6. I looked at a comparisson between the two video cards and they seem to be pretty comparible, with the 7970 (think that was the number) edging it out a little in some areas, but their was a lot of back and forth...Then you factor the price, and it seems to be clearly a better buy....My wifes computer is going to have a GTX 680 when she gets it, so I wonder if that is worth being a tie breaker also, so if their are any problems, I learn how to fix it, and I only have to deal with one type of card, or if that is silly to even consider that?
I do not use a ton of hard drive space, think I am under 300 GB used on my drive now, and I have tons of stuff I could delete and never miss (old games I no longer play and such).
I went with the Samsung 840 Pro, because I read a lot of good reviews, and it seemed like a good idea to have a nice quality SSD, if I am using it as my only drive. If I do come across the need for more storage, I may get a external drive, and fairy it between my computer and my wifes, as she will also have the same drive setup.
Someone mentioned the price on Amazon, everything was equal or lower, except the motherboard and CPU combo on newegg was much cheaper. I also live about 20 minutes away from a Microcenter (maybe 15 mins...). They have tax though, so while their combo was a little cheaper with tax, it was like under $10, then you add the drive/gas/time, it isn't as attractive. I will have to price some of their other parts though, if they have some better prices on things, then it starts to make more sense.
I will have to look up some information on Amazon, I could see them being even more lenient on returns maybe, due to them having a broader business, where Newegg seems to have a lot of disclaimers on different types of parts.
4/16/13 2:17:39 AM#7
This is by no means meant to advocate for one side or the other but I would recommend you take a look at some reviews of the GPU you finally decide on. Not all cards from the same line up (be it Nvidia's GTX680 or AMD's HD7970 Ghz editions) should be considered equal. Some will be more powerful but produce more heat/noise as a result. Others the opposite. A few will be a nice middle ground between them. All these options tend to come a various costs too. Just food for thought anyway.
4/16/13 12:49:31 PM#8
Originally posted by Xthos
At stock speeds, you won't use over 250 W for the video card or 100 W for the processor. A generous overestimate of 100 W for everything else and you'll never pull 450 W from the power supply. You don't need 750 W for that; even a good 550 W power supply would be plenty. If you're looking to overclock some, then maybe you want a 650 W power supply, but you shouldn't need more than that unless you're going for an unreasonably high overclock of both the CPU and the GPU.
Why are you getting a GeForce GTX 680 for your wife's computer, anyway? It's overpriced relative to the 7970 GHz Edition for her, just like it would be for you.
Which company is sensible to buy cards from depends on your budget and varies from generation to generation. Under $120 or so, you either buy from AMD or else you overpay, and it's been like that for more than three years. The modern Nvidia cards that are often a good deal are the GeForce GTX 650 Ti, GeForce GTX 650 Ti Boost, GeForce GTX 660, and GeForce GTX 670. The GeForce GTX 660 Ti that seems to be a favorite of Nvidia fanboys is most pointedly not a good deal, as it's way overpriced relative to the Radeon HD 7950.
There's also the GeForce GTX 690 and GeForce GTX Titan, but it's something of a stretch to call a $1000 part a good value for the money. Rather, those fall under the category of, if you need top end performance, you pay what it costs. The GeForce GTX Titan costs more than four times as much as the GeForce GTX 660, while offering about double the performance, which makes it look awful in performance per dollar ratings, but if you want Titan's performance, your choices are to pay the $1000 that Nvidia charges or do without.
But none of those seem to be the price range that you're looking for, as you seem to want something faster than a GTX 670 while not shelling out for a Titan. So in the price and performance range that you seem to be looking at, the Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition is really the best option.
If you think that 256 GB will likely be enough for you, then have at it. You can add a hard drive later if you need it. If you want to share an external hard drive among multiple computers, you might want to look into a NAS. It may or may not make sense for you, but that's a hard drive (typically more than one, often in some sort of RAID) meant to be shared among multiple computers over a netwrok.
One thing that you need to understand about SSDs is, among good ones, speed differences don't matter much. If in a situation where hard drives are bad, one SSD is 50 times as fast as a typical hard drive and another is 100 times as fast, synthetic benchmarks can readily tell the difference. In real world programs, they'll both be so fast that you're waiting on something else rather than the SSD, so you won't notice a difference. Now, that's only among good SSDs; you want to avoid anything with a JMicron controller and most with a Phison controller. Even so, most SSDs are pretty good these days.
Rather, buying decisions should be based more on price, capacity, and reliability. Reliability is very important, but hard to gauge, unfortunately, as even if one SSD has a 2% chance of failing in the first year and another a 3% chance, how do you tell the difference? Samsung does have a good reputation as far as reliability goes. They do charge a premium price for the 840 Pro; whether it's worth paying that for what is arguably the best consumer SSD on the market is a matter of opinion.
OP 4/16/13 4:38:51 PM#9
OK thanks for the watts information, I see around 600 for some of the higher cards recommended, and thats 2GB models, so I didn't want to be right at minimum, since they supposedly lose output as they age a little.
My wifes computer is going out, not sure if it is her power supply or what, but her computer was bought right before Vanguard came out, so it is decently older and served her well. She didn't want to have me build her computer, she gets bad flashbacks of my working on things that don't work right and me not having the most patience in the world. I am great about working on other peoples stuff, but when it is mine, I do have a short fuse at times... So I stopped trying to convience her that I was just going to order 2x the parts and put two computers together. The people I got her computer from didn't have the 7970 (thinks thats the 3gb one, they screw me up a little with their numbers), but they had a 2gb 670, and a 4 gb 680, it was I think $120 difference and she wanted the better card... So I gave in, and ordered the prebuilt for her, had a $250 gift card for the site. You don't always win the battle in the household hehe. I figure at worst, I may have to replace the power supply, if the one that comes with the prebuilt is garbage, since it was not selectable.
I got a HAF 912 case, 240 GB SSD , I5-3570 K, ASUS P8Z77-LK MB, ASUS GTX 680 4GB, Samsung 24x CD/DVD, 16 GB 1333 memory, Win 8 64 bit for $1471 with tax/delivery, plus $250 off with the gift card thats been sitting around....
I just have to wait till I get a estimate back on our new garage door, and make sure their are no suprise extra costs, once that money is clear, I should be able to order my parts...Getting a new garage and front door put in, and my computer is still working ok, so my computer was obviously the last priority.
I should be able to save a little though, if I go with a good 650 ps, and do decide on the 6970 ghz edition, and maybe even a cheaper SSD, do you have some suggestions of something that is comparible? I was discounting anything that did not rate 500 read and write on the ratings, but you say that is not as important, due to speed not being as noticable. I also heard the 6970 was loud and ran hot, is that rubbish also?
4/17/13 8:54:47 PM#10
Originally posted by Xthos
Video cards tend to inflate the power supply requirements for their official recommendations for two reasons. FIrst, they don't know what else you have in your system, so if they assume that you use 150 W for everything but the video card, someone will come along with a power hog like a C0 stepping Core i7-920 overclocked to 4 GHz and use 250 W for the CPU alone and then fry things. Second, they don't know whether you're going to get a good quality power supply, so if they think you'll need a good quality 400 W power supply, they might say 500 W just so that a mediocre quality 500 W power supply is likely to be enough.
Furthermore, they figure that if someone does get an inadequate power supply and it fries something, they're likely to blame the video card for it, and no video card vendors want the blame when someone fries things on a piece of junk power supply. So they inflate the wattage requirements. A Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition has a PowerTune cap of 250 W, meaning that it monitors power consumption in real time and if it goes over 250 W, the video card will throttle back clock speeds to bring power consumption back down to 250 W within a fraction of a second. That doesn't often happen with games, but is there to handle a stress test or the occasional rare program that uses far more power than expected. But it does let you assume that the video card won't use more than 250 W.
Add other stuff in and, at stock speeds, it will be basically impossible for you to draw 400 W from the power supply. Now, it's not a good idea to buy a 400 W power supply and then pull 400 W from it. But a good 550 W power supply would be plenty for that, even if the video card suggests a minimum of 600 W. If you want to get 650 W, then go ahead, but don't buy a higher wattage than 650 W unless you're looking to overclock everything to a ridiculous degree and potentially fry hardware, or you find a higher wattage model that is no more expensive than the 650 W version you'd have otherwise gotten. (E.g., if you would have gotten a 650 W power supply for $100, and the 750 W version of the same thing is $90, go ahead and get the 750 W just to save $10.)
So you paid about 30% more to get maybe an extra 5% graphical performance. That's terrible value for the money, which is why I generally recommend against a GTX 680. Even the GeForce GTX 670 is often limited by memory bandwidth, and it's identical to the GTX 680 in those. The GTX 680 does have 14% more shaders and TMUs, and clocks a bit higher (though I suspect that the GTX 670 uses turbo more aggressively to partially offset that), so it is a faster card, but not that much faster. This is why you ask for advice on what to buy before making the purchase rather than after.
If you don't know exactly what power supply you got, then it's likely to be a piece of junk that you ought to replace just on general principle. (Find out what you got and post it before doing so.) While a lot of the bad SSDs are gone, too, I'd worry some about an unnamed SSD. Or do you know exactly what parts you got and just aren't listing them? Where did you buy the computer from, anyway?
The thing that you need to understand about storage performance is that peak numbers don't matter outside of some corner cases such as video recording. Even 100 MB/s is blazing fast--if you always actually get 100 MB/s in real-world performance. The problem with hard drives is that when you have to read or write a bunch of small files, they often chug along at less than 1 MB/s. An SSD that gets you into the tens of MB/s in such harsh cases fixes that problem.
The performance difference between a good SSD and a bad SSD is primarily whether the SSD will always deliver at least tens of MB/s or whether there are some corner cases that make it choke. If one SSD does 20 MB/s in harsh cases and another does 30 MB/s in harsh cases, that difference doesn't particularly matter. If one does 500 MB/s in easy cases and another does 400 MB/s in easy cases, that also doesn't particularly matter. What matters is things like one recent review found that one particularly harsh workload was able to make a particular SSD completely stop writing for about 20 seconds (which would likely make a program hang and Windows ask if you wanted to close it) before starting again and accepting more writes, and you really don't want that to happen. A lot of SSDs do well if you leave at least 1/4 of the area free, but some choke if you get close to filling it up.
Apart from that, choosing an SSD is based on capacity, price, and reliability. Reliability is hard to gauge, though, so you largely have to go buy reputation.
I assume you mean a 7970, not a 6970. The rumors of the Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition being hot and loud are basically due to a marketing goof on AMD's part. The original Radeon HD 7970 ran at 925 MHz, while the GHz Edition of it ran up to 1050 MHz, in addition to using higher voltages. That meant that the latter used substantially more power.
Rather than wait until there were retail 7970 GHz Edition cards available to send them out for review, AMD sent out a reference 7970 clocked higher to review sites, to let sites see the performance and say, yep, it's faster than a GeForce GTX 680. That meant that they sent out a card that put out substantially more heat than the cooler was meant to handle, which is how you get hot and loud. But the reference 7970 cooler was never used on retail 7970 GHz Edition cards, so the temperatures and noise that showed up in reviews were not representative of retail cards.
Rather, at least when it launched, the Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition was the flagship, top of the line card for pretty much every board partner that sold one. They tended to use their top of the line single-GPU cooler for the cards, and in particular, used much better coolers than the cards used in the initial reviews. That doesn't affect the power draw and heat output very much, but it does bring temperatures and noise way down.
OP 4/18/13 5:25:42 PM#11
The SSD should be one of two different Neutron ones, I think one is a GS and forget the other ones name. I am debating on cancelling the order and going at it with the wife again on buying the parts and putting it together. I was never big on buying hers like that...But she wore me down.
I wanted to order the parts for hers, put it together, then do mine with basically the same stuff. Either way, I think you have sold me on the 7970 ghz edition, its about $130 cheaper, unless the price drops on the GTX 680 a lot, which it probably won't. I can probably knock about $250 off of my list, with that and a different power supply. I may decide to pay the extra and keep the 840 pro though. I can always add a HD in later, if we need one on our computers, we do not use a lot of our storage, most of it is old games we no longer play (so they could be deleted).
4/18/13 5:32:02 PM#12
Either of the Corsair Neutron SSDs uses a LAMD controller. They're pretty good, and certainly not something that you'd need to worry about.
OP 4/23/13 6:00:23 PM#13
Well the wifes computer came in, not thrilled with some of the stuff, and was suprised at some also. Wanted to order parts and build it, but wife wanted me to just order hers.... Was $1375 +tax.
EVGA gtx 680 4GB video card, description didn't have brand, and I like EVGA.
The not certain:
Sandisk 256 GB SSD (instead of the corsaair neutron 240 GB that I thought was going to come with it), don't know much about SSD drives, so not sure about Sandisk.
MSI B75MA-P45 - micro motherboard in a mid tower case (HAF 912), not going to be doing SLI or anything, but was thinking it was going to be a ASUS P8Z77-LK....As long as this thing runs whats in it good, guess its not that big a deal.
Apevia ATX-AP900W power supply, it is not 80+ bronze rated, spec on Newegg say it is 80%+, she is not overclocking or anything, so it might do ok...Debating if I should pop it out and replace it.
Of course it has the I5--3570K cpu, standard cooler (figure its ok, without overclocking, if I built it, I would of bought a cooler).
4/23/13 6:47:04 PM#14
If they told you that they were going to use such and such parts and then used something else, that's fraud. You should return it and demand a full refund. If they give you any guff about it, report them for fraud. I don't know where you live, but promising one part and shipping another is illegal just about everywhere in the civilized world.
If you were just guessing what they were going to use and guessed wrong because they didn't say, then it's a problem that you're a bad guesser. When they won't tell you exactly what parts they're using, it probably means that it's whatever is cheapest that day. And whatever is cheapest that day is likely to be junk.
If the SSD says "Extreme" or "Ultra Plus" on it, then it's fine. Those are a SandForce and Marvell controller, respectively. If it's this, then it's a piece of junk:
That's probably either a Phison or JMicron controller; New Egg doesn't know. They're probably both better than most hard drives, but it's nowhere near what you want from an SSD today. Or what you would have wanted from an SSD four years ago, for that matter.
The power supply, meanwhile, is also junk.
A real 900 W power supply for $70 without any special discounts to reach that price simply doesn't happen. $70 will often get you a decent ~500 W power supply.
It's not 80 PLUS certified, it is only rated at 708 W on the +12 V rails, and the +3.3 V, +5 V, and +12 V rails added together don't reach the nominal 900 W. Meanwhile, 4 of the 6 ratings on New Egg gave it 1 star. That's a whole bunch of red flags. If you won't or can't return it for a refund, I'd recommend not using it until you get a chance to replace the power supply.
The B75 chipset in the motherboard means that overclocking is completely disabled. I don't know if Intel still does this with Ivy Bridge, but with Sandy Bridge, the lower end chipsets that disabled overclocking also throttled back the max turbo boost speed--meaning, you don't even get the full stock speed from the CPU. Otherwise, the motherboard is low end, but not worthless junk.
4/23/13 6:48:19 PM#15
I would personally swap out the PSU stat. A quick search for any professional review of the unit resulted in nothing and the only consumer reviews were not good by any means. A "900W" PSU that is not 80 plus rated for $70 reeks of potential system killer.
OP 4/24/13 12:26:27 AM#16
Well, they said it was going to be a 240 GB SSD, which they only had the corsair neutron ones I mentioned before that you said were good...The invoice says they gave me a 240 GB SSD, but that bad 256 GB ssd is in the case, coupled with the bad power supply, I told my wife it is going back. I was ok with replacing the PS, but only that.
I am going to order the parts from Newegg or Amazon or whoever, and put it together. The wife can deal with it heh, not going to pay $300+ for someone else to do it.
If I go with the 7970, I think their is a regular one and a GHZ Edition one correct? Should I make sure to get the Ghz Edition? I mainly know Nvidea and get EVGA cards, who makes a good 7970 card, I know Gigabyte and I think XFX? Were linked before, I read some reviews on the tripple fan Gigabyte and people complained about the fans going bad quick, but you will see bad things on any product, people generally do not post feedback when things work good as often.
4/24/13 1:41:48 AM#17
I currently use ASUS GTX 680 DirectCUII cards in two of my rigs and I couldn't be happier. That said the cost for these are not what one would consider a good bargain. I would recommend the 7970 versions if noise and thermal levels are a concern worth paying extra for (the ASUS DirectCUII cooler is the best on the pre-installed market for heat/noise combined) but if not then based on reviews I'd have to recommend the following card for the money:
OP 4/24/13 6:21:11 AM#18
Originally posted by miguksaram
Those fans look nice on the card you have, they also have one it looks like on a 7970 it looked like on a site I looked at. You do pay a premium for it though. Seems it would be good if you like to push your overclock from people saying how cool it keeps the card.
4/24/13 11:23:34 AM#19
Originally posted by Xthos
So they said it would be a 240 GB SSD, but didn't explicitly state that it would be a Corsair Neutron, and you just assumed that it would be? And the same thing with the motherboard?
Never, ever, ever buy a desktop without being explicitly told exactly what every single part that matters is. Because otherwise there isn't merely a chance that anything that you weren't told explicitly will be filled in with cheap junk. Rather, it will probably happen.
OP 4/30/13 2:56:01 PM#20
Well, I did what I wanted to do in the first place, ordered everything from Newegg, for $1350 ($1290 with mail in rebates). Gotta get a power supply, didn't like the deals they had going, so that will add $80-100 in the end.
1 x ($569.99) EVGA 04G-P4-2686-KR GeForce GTX 680 w/ Backplate 4GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
$569.99 ($509.99 after discount/rebate)
1 x ($219.99) Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I53570K
$219.99 ($299 combo with motherboard)
1 x ($129.99) ASUS P8Z77-V LK LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
$129.99 ($299 combo with cpu)
1 x ($124.99) G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-1600C9D-16GXM
$124.99 ($107 I think with discount)
$99.99 ($80 with discount)
1 x ($74.99) Western Digital WD Blue WD10EZEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive - OEM
$74.99 ($65 with discount)
$59.99 (Was a free throw in with the gfx card)
$17.99 (14.99 after $3 off)
1 x ($99.99) COOLER MASTER HAF 922 RC-922M-KKN3-GP Black Steel + Plastic and Mesh Bezel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case with USB 3.0 and Black Interior
I decided that I might as well get a hard drive for like extra storage, was going to get a 128 gb Samsung, decided on the 256 GB because games are taking up more and more room, so my wife wouldn't have to manage (meaning me) what was on the HD and SSD. I also paid $60 more on the GTX 680, over the 7970 ghz edition in the end, but I like EVGA and Nvidea, if they didn't have the sale going on it would of made it tougher and may of did the switch to the 7970 ghz edition.