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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » F2P Model heading for disaster an "apocalypse" in 3-5 years

16 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last Search
313 posts found
  ckeeton999

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 58

4/12/13 2:34:33 PM#21
Tera is a good example of f2p. 
  Nasa

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/21/04
Posts: 356

4/12/13 2:35:52 PM#22

Am I allowed to laugh if Camelot Unchained at some point turns into F2P?

Bioware for a long time almost denied that SWTOR would ever turn into F2P.

  Rthuth434

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/12
Posts: 367

4/12/13 2:36:18 PM#23
Originally posted by ckeeton999
Tera is a good example of f2p. 

which began as a quite shitty P2P game.

  Mkilbride

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/01/07
Posts: 639

4/12/13 2:37:22 PM#24

Tera is a pretty bad game overall, I had my fun with it, and made some money even.

 

However, Tera did do F2P Right.

Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

  gylnne

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/07
Posts: 325

 
OP  4/12/13 2:42:33 PM#25
Originally posted by Nasa

Am I allowed to laugh if Camelot Unchained at some point turns into F2P?

Bioware for a long time almost denied that SWTOR would ever turn into F2P.

Yes and Bioware answers to it's share holders, CU answers to it's kickstarter backers.

  Rthuth434

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/12
Posts: 367

4/12/13 2:42:33 PM#26
Originally posted by Mkilbride

Tera is a pretty bad game overall, I had my fun with it, and made some money even.

 

However, Tera did do F2P Right.

you may have been disappointed but you're a little kid if you let it paint your world view that far. Guild Wars, and yes its sequel too are better than almost(gotta bold the almost) every P2P game that came out from the time GW was released.

 

there will be P2P releases this yea, they will have the same chance of being bad as always. same for the f2p ones. these games just have so little room for error but so much probability of error.

  Rthuth434

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/12
Posts: 367

4/12/13 2:43:27 PM#27
Originally posted by gylnne
Originally posted by Nasa

Am I allowed to laugh if Camelot Unchained at some point turns into F2P?

Bioware for a long time almost denied that SWTOR would ever turn into F2P.

Yes and Bioware answers to it's share holders, CU answers to it's kickstarter backers.

correction, they answer to no one. such is the beauty in kickstarter(from the company/creator point of view).

  aslan132

Elite Member

Joined: 10/01/07
Posts: 332

4/12/13 2:43:35 PM#28
Looks to me like the whole thing is a marketing ploy from Mark Jacobs, to justify having a subscription in a free to play industry.  Maybe he will get a few extra people backing him, and maybe the game gets developed. But sooner or later it will be free to play just like Tera, SWTOR and every other MMO that has released in the last couple years. If it doesnt, it will just get shut down, there arent enough people willing to pay a sub to sustain a game anymore. Not to mention that CU is a very small niche game to begin with, since it only supports PVP players. With no PVE, theres no PVE players, which im not going to make up some random imaginary number like 90% of the playerbase, but im sure it has to be close.
  Dren_Utogi

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1479

4/12/13 2:44:31 PM#29

Mark Jacobs is ismply setting himself up so when he says CU is going to be 15 dollars a monrh,, no one will whine.

 

I've paid more money to SOE alone using their item mall, and I've not used a subscription in over 3 years. Games are what make the , well the game, I doesn't matter if it is free to play or a subscription, if the game is crap, no one will pplay it.

 

The OP and people who need a subscription to feel elitist, more power to you, I'm playing mmo's for fun.

reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  gylnne

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/07
Posts: 325

 
OP  4/12/13 2:45:30 PM#30
Originally posted by boxsnd
We will see if his prediction is right. I predict exactly the opposite. F2P/B2P will flourish and P2P will die out with WoW.

Agree Box, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.:)

  Rthuth434

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/12
Posts: 367

4/12/13 2:46:28 PM#31
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

I've paid more money to SOE alone using their item mall, and I've not used a subscription in over 3 years. Games are what make the , well the game, I doesn't matter if it is free to play or a subscription, if the game is crap, no one will pplay it.

 

  dotdotdash

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/01/11
Posts: 360

4/12/13 2:49:30 PM#32

He may well be right, even if he's being a tad dramatic about it.

I don't think the model is heading to an apocalypse. I think the market will become saturated with F2P titles - if it isn't already - and that will initially be a better thing for consumers. F2P titles have a long way to go in terms of quality. Eventually, of course, we'll see few titles coming to the fore. Many will fail quickly as the "better" games monopolise the player base. The market will normalise, in the same way the P2P market has normalised.

Also, the F2P model will likely give way largely to the B2P model. Ethical microtransactions will be used as a point of growth for a few years yet. Add that to the fact that it is "THE" traditional model of payment... for pretty much everything... and it seems like the safest bet long term for everyone concerned.

And that's what I'd say to Mark and his plans for CU. I'm not going to play it. It's that simple. I'm not going to play it because I'm not a moron. Playing an MMO for more than a few weeks removes your ability to apply yourself to any worthwhile pursuit in life. If it's a choice between reading, and paying a subscription to play your game... reading wins. Also, the average person is feeling the pinch right now, and it's only going to get worse. By offering a subscription, you are asking for a long term commitment. You are also competing with other subscription services... and regular bills. Seems shortsighted, if you ask me. Merely hastening the demise of the system that allows you to do it, really. Better to comply with change so that you're in a position to impact it, than to struggle blindly to peddle the old nonsense.

  Mkilbride

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/01/07
Posts: 639

4/12/13 2:49:58 PM#33

[mod edit]

 

MJ already said he won't be doing 14.99$ a month

 

IT'll be 9.99$ or less.

 

He also said that, if the game is in a state where it has to go F2P...he's shutting it down.

Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

  User Deleted
4/12/13 2:50:26 PM#34
Originally posted by Horusra
Originally posted by ForumPvP
Originally posted by Horusra

 

 

  Development and progress take time and unfortunately a lot of corpses along the way in the form of bankruptcies, failed games, and disgruntled players.  Hopefully some kind of stimulus will not come in to artificially prop up games that should fail.

Thats where the problem lies,there is companies building free to play game,what kind of goal is that.

The goal is for those making crappy games to fail horrible and someone behind them to say "Stop...we are going to make a F2P game, but we are going to make one worth playing not just a one year money grab game."

there must be something else behind this ideology,i do understand if someone tries to build something for "wider" audience but then you need to listen them all,actually allmost every single one of them.Like Reaper for example,it really is amazing thing but can it compete against the "big boys" no ,it really cant.

 

 

 

  Celcius

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/20/04
Posts: 949

4/12/13 2:52:36 PM#35

I don't really see this happening. We see more companies with layoffs and closing based upon sub based models already. There are far more free to play models now then sub based, but sub based still ends up being the guys who end up falling apart the most brutally. The only reason Jacobs is saying this is because of the game he is creating. Niche sub based games work because they are cheap to develop and can make money off a sub.

If you got the sub route and you spend 40-60 million on a game you need hundreds of thousands of subs to even see profit. Considering how saturated the market is becoming, I don't see F2P games going away anytime soon. F2P games don't force you to play one title at a time so it is easy to play multiple and potentially spend money each month in different ones. Unlike sub games where most people will only play one because they can only afford to play one. 

Basically nothing really shows that the F2P model is going anywhere and everything is showing that the sub model is. 

Just a bit of clarity: I think some people are mistaking hybrid F2P games for what they are. Hybrid games are going to cost you more to get what you would get with a sub because they WANT you to sub. The free to play is just one optional way to play the game. The reason that these games restrict you so much is because they want you to sub. They want F2P to be more of a trial run for the real game. Obviously they would not say this, but it is clearly true. The only games that doesn't do this that I can think of is Tera. Obviously everyone wants every game to be like Tera, but Tera was failing so badly that they had to resort to a pretty drastic change. The same reason you see TSW's F2P model offer the whole game short of "content packs" that you purchase is also because the game was failing so badly that if they made people pay a sub to still enjoy the game it would not do as well.

  Horusra

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 2384

4/12/13 2:55:17 PM#36
Originally posted by ForumPvP
Originally posted by Horusra
Originally posted by ForumPvP
Originally posted by Horusra

 

 

  Development and progress take time and unfortunately a lot of corpses along the way in the form of bankruptcies, failed games, and disgruntled players.  Hopefully some kind of stimulus will not come in to artificially prop up games that should fail.

Thats where the problem lies,there is companies building free to play game,what kind of goal is that.

The goal is for those making crappy games to fail horrible and someone behind them to say "Stop...we are going to make a F2P game, but we are going to make one worth playing not just a one year money grab game."

there must be something else behind this ideology,i do understand if someone tries to build something for "wider" audience but then you need to listen them all,actually allmost every single one of them.Like Reaper for example,it really is amazing thing but can it compete against the "big boys" no ,it really cant.

 

 

 

If you make something that can not compete then it should fail.  These are things that people have to actually want to play and support.  If it is fail it should fail.  I should not have to support a game I do not like so that a game I like that thrive.  My money should go for what I like.  If a developers can make more money making games I do not like then I have to move on to a new form of entertainment.  Life is not fair.  Some succeed some fail.  Every so often you will find yourself on the bad end of that.

  FromHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1338

4/12/13 2:57:17 PM#37
Originally posted by gylnne

"Camelot Unchained creator and long-time MMO veteran Mark Jacobs has warned

 uh-huh.. and that warning is coming from the guy who did Warhammer Online.

LOL.

And what was again with that Imperator Online title?

His quote reminds me of the SWTOR analyst who said F2P "could attract up to 50 million players"

http://www.examiner.com/article/analyst-swtor-move-to-free-to-play-could-attract-up-to-50-million-players

 

 

 

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
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The Return of ELITE !

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5226

4/12/13 2:57:38 PM#38
Originally posted by boxsnd
We will see if his prediction is right. I predict exactly the opposite. F2P/B2P will flourish and P2P will die out with WoW.

I predict you are half right. I think the whole genre is going to be in trouble by then.

Business models are not the issue. pisspoor quality MMORPGs are the issue. Create a quality product and people will pay for it. Once you have a quality product, you can then figure out the best business model. But we can all see how dollar signs have driven this industry since the (anomalous) success of WoW. Developers have lost sight of why gamers play and have zeroed in on their wallets. It shows.

MMORPGs weren't originally mainstream games. I believe they will eventually either die out or return to their roots. I also think there will be forks. Gw2 could potentially be the pioneer to such a fork....A hybrization from action games. But in the end, I don't think they will be what we call(ed) MMORPGs

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2363

First came pride, then envy.

4/12/13 2:57:44 PM#39
Originally posted by Mkilbride

Great interview. Really convinced me. Put 110$ “Young Her” most I’ve ever spent on a game.

I’ve played pretty much every MMO to date, excluding ones not in English(and some that aren’t), and nothing beats Pay 2 play quality.

GW2 disappointed me…GW1 was one of my favorite games ever…GW2 I regret buying.

GW1 & GW2 are buy-to-play, not f2p.

F2P won't go away.  It's here to say, because it works.  It basically an extended trial version of the game.

  Purutzil

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2910

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

4/12/13 3:01:39 PM#40

Camelot Unchained creator... don't you, you know, have to actually create the game first before you can claim that? Its more like Camelot Unchained 'Idea writer" then maker.  

As for the article... yeah... I'm going to have to laugh at it and disagree heavily. No offense but it feels more like an attempt to 'reason' with having a sub fee for your game. F2P has issues, don't get me wrong and it can go the wrong way (which same games ARE doing) but it won't die out or end in disaster, if anything it will evolve and hopefully become better in such a time.

 

F2P is going to stay, and there is no reaosn why you can't have your game sub if you really want it to be if you push it out to be good enough, or at the very least a Freemium model which can cause players who want to dedicate actual money to the game to have full access. 

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