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General Discussion  » [Poll] - WildStar - Are you up for 40m raids?

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110 posts found
  kadepsyson

Novice Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1966

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

4/10/13 7:07:54 PM#61
Originally posted by Tokenaru
Tired of this casual, instant gratification market....its sickening.  If you dont like what wildstar is doing guess what theres always WoW.  Seems like every mmorpg that has come out since wotlk has been casual garbage that requires no skill or thought.  Blizzard pissed away thier talent and they went elsewhere to develope games after The Burning Crusade.  This is why Diablo 3 sucks and why WoW continues to be dumbed down.  I miss the 40 man raiding days and I say bring it on, I just hope every developer has learned that taking the passion out of game design and replacing it with greed is the wrong answer. 

So if an MMO doesn't have 40 person raids, it is casual and garbage?

 

Well, that is an interesting thought.

El Psy Congroo

  TheJoda

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/10
Posts: 492

"Yes...... that's a Duck Staff of D00M!!!"

4/10/13 7:07:58 PM#62
Originally posted by QuisTabris

The reason EQ end game 60+ raids worked so amazingly well, for so long, is because if you killed a freaking GOD, it took killing the next more powerful god or super boss to even replace that item...sometimes those items never were replaced... Very few 'epic' loots were replaced by anything but equal or more epic boss kills....and as the expansions progressed, it took serious effort from players, sovling real puzzles in order to even gain access to the boss to even attempt killing. This created a very "this is fucking epic" feeling. Progression made huge differences in your character, and for bragging rights amongst other top tier guilds. Competition is fun. Challenging encounters are fun. coordinating a strike force is fun. This is why raids were successfull, not just because it was good loot.

the problem now is either old hardcore players just "dont have the time" to play like that anymore, but they still want to feel like they did when they raided end game phat lootz, so 15-25 man content is ideal for them, ...and.... that the casual gamer has taken over so much of the market that developers are afraid of introducing anything from EQ that made the game so special. 

MMO's are missing the real "epicness" that 40+ man raiding offers. EQ would've never had the subscriber base as long as it did (or still does!), and if WoW did not launch with 40 man raids, would've missed out on the subs they needed at launch from the dozens and dozens of huge guilds coming over from EQ.

 

you are correct, those raids were epic and loots were great and bragging rights too!....thats the real issue now a days.  No one wants to wait or do those epic quest, these kids want everything now and will pay at a cash shop for them =/

....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  Tokenaru

Novice Member

Joined: 1/26/13
Posts: 61

4/10/13 7:10:52 PM#63
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by Tokenaru
Tired of this casual, instant gratification market....its sickening.  If you dont like what wildstar is doing guess what theres always WoW.  Seems like every mmorpg that has come out since wotlk has been casual garbage that requires no skill or thought.  Blizzard pissed away thier talent and they went elsewhere to develope games after The Burning Crusade.  This is why Diablo 3 sucks and why WoW continues to be dumbed down.  I miss the 40 man raiding days and I say bring it on, I just hope every developer has learned that taking the passion out of game design and replacing it with greed is the wrong answer. 

So if an MMO doesn't have 40 person raids, it is casual and garbage?

 

Well, that is an interesting thought.

No thats not what im saying at all, im just calling it like I see it.  The Burning Crusade was the last of the 40man raids and since then the market has shifted to being way to easy.  Is it because of 40 man raids per say, probably not but it is definatly a design change Blizzard made at that time that other Developers followed like blind sheep.  Do you ever wonder why you hop from mmo to mmo seeking a place to call home, trying out the latest new game only to find a shallow, hollow experience?  This may not speak for you but it does for me, I want to be challnged, I want to be told im not prepared and spend a long time with a group of folks to defeat an epic encounter.

  kadepsyson

Novice Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1966

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

4/10/13 7:12:38 PM#64
Originally posted by Tokenaru
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by Tokenaru
Tired of this casual, instant gratification market....its sickening.  If you dont like what wildstar is doing guess what theres always WoW.  Seems like every mmorpg that has come out since wotlk has been casual garbage that requires no skill or thought.  Blizzard pissed away thier talent and they went elsewhere to develope games after The Burning Crusade.  This is why Diablo 3 sucks and why WoW continues to be dumbed down.  I miss the 40 man raiding days and I say bring it on, I just hope every developer has learned that taking the passion out of game design and replacing it with greed is the wrong answer. 

So if an MMO doesn't have 40 person raids, it is casual and garbage?

 

Well, that is an interesting thought.

No thats not what im saying at all, im just calling it like I see it.  The Burning Crusade was the last of the 40man raids and since then the market has shifted to being way to easy.  Is it because of 40 man raids per say, probably not but it is definatly a design change Blizzard made at that time that other Developers followed like blind sheep.

OK.  Anything to say about Wildstar?  Or are you hoping to pass time raiding until whatever Titan is gets announced?

 

I mean really, you keep going on about only Blizzard games.  Yeah, some of them had raids but cmon.  Wildstar.

El Psy Congroo

  Yalexy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 1039

4/10/13 7:14:32 PM#65

Sorry, but I can't stop laughing at those, who think that it's too damn hard and complicated to organize 40 people for a raid.

We're organizing multilingual 500 or even 1000-player raids over different timezomes in EvE Online for several years now, and it's no problem at all.

The only people having problems with these big numbers are the ones that are simply not dedicated enough or having pronlems with ADHD.
A normal person shouldn't have any troubles to listen to the raidlead and follow orders for some two hours without running to the bathroom or kitchen every 10 minutes.
You know the time when the raid is supposed to start, so go pee and have dinner before the raid starts.
Voicechat discipline isn't that hard either. Simply mute your f*n microphone if you can't keep your mouth shut. Push-to-talk is mandatory aswell, as noone wants to hear you sneezing or talking to your GF etc.

Seriously, if you have troubles with a 40-player raid, then the problem is with you, not with the size of the raid.

  kadepsyson

Novice Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1966

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

4/10/13 7:18:57 PM#66
Originally posted by Yalexy

Sorry, but I can't stop laughing at those, who think that it's too damn hard and complicated to organize 40 people for a raid.

We're organizing multilingual 500-player raids over different timezomes in EvE Online for several years now, and it's no problem at all.

The only people having problems with these big numbers are the ones that are simply not dedicated enough or having pronlems with ADHD.
A normal person shouldn't have any troubles to listen to the raidlead and follow orders for some two hours without running to the bathroom or kitchen every 10 minutes.
You know the time when the raid is supposed to start, so go pee and have dinner before the raid starts.
Voicechat discipline isn't that hard either. Simply mute your f*n microphone if you can't keep your mouth shut. Push-to-talk is mandatory aswell, as noone wants to hear you sneezing or talking to your GF etc.

Seriously, if you have troubles with a 40-player raid, then the problem is with you, not with the size of the raid.

I agree with what you say here.

 

I'd also like to mention that for me it isn't the amount of players, or the time required, but rather how terrible it is in terms of game design.  It's a system designed to string people along playing and paying for extended times, while repeating the same content for months.  It saves development costs because the players do the same few raids over and over, rather than large amounts of varied areas or encounters.  It's a cash grab and filled with repetitive boredom.  Then, everything that was worked for through these raids is made worthless when the next (paid) expansion releases.

 

So I'd much rather have a huge epic battle in EVE with several times that number of players in a combat situation that can suddenly change from what was expected, than repeatedly 'kill' the same boss for months over and over so he can give me a glove that'll be useless soon after I get it.

 

It's poor game design, and yet some love it and consider it hardcore or even a sign of how dedicated they are.  Laughable, really.

El Psy Congroo

  Vembumees

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/13
Posts: 87

4/10/13 7:20:38 PM#67
Originally posted by Yalexy

Sorry, but I can't stop laughing at those, who think that it's too damn hard and complicated to organize 40 people for a raid.

We're organizing multilingual 500 or even 1000-player raids over different timezomes in EvE Online for several years now, and it's no problem at all.

The only people having problems with these big numbers are the ones that are simply not dedicated enough or having pronlems with ADHD.
A normal person shouldn't have any troubles to listen to the raidlead and follow orders for some two hours without running to the bathroom or kitchen every 10 minutes.
You know the time when the raid is supposed to start, so go pee and have dinner before the raid starts.
Voicechat discipline isn't that hard either. Simply mute your f*n microphone if you can't keep your mouth shut. Push-to-talk is mandatory aswell, as noone wants to hear you sneezing or talking to your GF etc.

Seriously, if you have troubles with a 40-player raid, then the problem is with you, not with the size of the raid.

If mmorpg had upvotes I'd want to give you 100.

  Bossalinie

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/29/07
Posts: 629

4/10/13 7:27:06 PM#68
Originally posted by Yalexy

Sorry, but I can't stop laughing at those, who think that it's too damn hard and complicated to organize 40 people for a raid.

We're organizing multilingual 500 or even 1000-player raids over different timezomes in EvE Online for several years now, and it's no problem at all.

The only people having problems with these big numbers are the ones that are simply not dedicated enough or having pronlems with ADHD.
A normal person shouldn't have any troubles to listen to the raidlead and follow orders for some two hours without running to the bathroom or kitchen every 10 minutes.
You know the time when the raid is supposed to start, so go pee and have dinner before the raid starts.
Voicechat discipline isn't that hard either. Simply mute your f*n microphone if you can't keep your mouth shut. Push-to-talk is mandatory aswell, as noone wants to hear you sneezing or talking to your GF etc.

Seriously, if you have troubles with a 40-player raid, then the problem is with you, not with the size of the raid.

I guess this is a problem in my life that I'll have to live with...

  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3573

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

4/10/13 7:29:13 PM#69
Having gone through Molten Core, way, WAY too many times, not only no, but HELL NO.  Trying to get 40 people together, at one time and place is bad enough.  Then getting them all to work together is even worse.  Not to mention the inevitable AFK's and discons.  Its just not worth the effort to me.   There are many good reasons why games have moved away from such large raids. Nothing has changed to mitigate that.
  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3573

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

4/10/13 7:36:34 PM#70
Originally posted by Yalexy

Sorry, but I can't stop laughing at those, who think that it's too damn hard and complicated to organize 40 people for a raid.

We're organizing multilingual 500 or even 1000-player raids over different timezomes in EvE Online for several years now, and it's no problem at all.

The only people having problems with these big numbers are the ones that are simply not dedicated enough or having pronlems with ADHD.
A normal person shouldn't have any troubles to listen to the raidlead and follow orders for some two hours without running to the bathroom or kitchen every 10 minutes.
You know the time when the raid is supposed to start, so go pee and have dinner before the raid starts.
Voicechat discipline isn't that hard either. Simply mute your f*n microphone if you can't keep your mouth shut. Push-to-talk is mandatory aswell, as noone wants to hear you sneezing or talking to your GF etc.

Seriously, if you have troubles with a 40-player raid, then the problem is with you, not with the size of the raid.

Laugh all you wish.  I'm not going to center my life and its various patterns around a game. Its a hobby to me.  A source of entertainment, NOT a second job.   I spent almost six years in EVE, so I'm familiar with some of the fanatics involved with the game.  It doesn't surprise me that they have developed methods of semi controlling their blobs by this point.  But EVE is rather different from the typical MMO.  Not to mention the pro PvP EVE corps, tend to be much more hard core and professional, than most in other games.

  Vembumees

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/13
Posts: 87

4/10/13 7:47:49 PM#71
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by Yalexy

Sorry, but I can't stop laughing at those, who think that it's too damn hard and complicated to organize 40 people for a raid.

We're organizing multilingual 500 or even 1000-player raids over different timezomes in EvE Online for several years now, and it's no problem at all.

The only people having problems with these big numbers are the ones that are simply not dedicated enough or having pronlems with ADHD.
A normal person shouldn't have any troubles to listen to the raidlead and follow orders for some two hours without running to the bathroom or kitchen every 10 minutes.
You know the time when the raid is supposed to start, so go pee and have dinner before the raid starts.
Voicechat discipline isn't that hard either. Simply mute your f*n microphone if you can't keep your mouth shut. Push-to-talk is mandatory aswell, as noone wants to hear you sneezing or talking to your GF etc.

Seriously, if you have troubles with a 40-player raid, then the problem is with you, not with the size of the raid.

Laugh all you wish.  I'm not going to center my life and its various patterns around a game. Its a hobby to me.  A source of entertainment, NOT a second job.   I spent almost six years in EVE, so I'm familiar with some of the fanatics involved with the game.  It doesn't surprise me that they have developed methods of semi controlling their blobs by this point.  But EVE is rather different from the typical MMO.  Not to mention the pro PvP EVE corps, tend to be much more hard core and professional, than most in other games.

That's great. And I can name some themepark mmorpg's that are just for your taste: Swtor, WoW, Rift, GW2. Also some less AAA titles, but I am not going bother naming them. Actually in addition, I know about 20+ of casual mmorpg's you can play as well, without that stupid-ass raiding.

You can play as a hobby in these ones and do everything in the game. 3 hours a day is enough, if you are efficient, you can even manage with less.. While those games don't really offer pretty much anything anymore to the people who do want to spend a lot of time doing the game content. I don't see how having one themepark game that as well caters to those players is a bad thing. I personally am tired of farming moba's and path of exile for years and would like to play an mmorpg that I wouldn't have completed in a month  like every themepark title there. I hope WildStar delivers that.

No one forces anyone to raid. If you don't want to be part of that 1% or don't find it appealing, then don't for fucks sake. Why can't it be in the game then? If you love leveling, then level, love pvp, pvp, love raiding, raid, love rp, rp. Why the hell do you need to boycott for the feature to be removed from the game overall? It's just amazing how casuals are so selfish, but somehow template the "elites" the assholes. I honestly can tell that I don't give a slightest fuck about any social, questing, etc bla bla bla features in the game, pretty much any features implemented into GW2, that are just implemented there for the average casual joe's enjoyment. But I'm not going to cry for an eternity for them being a horrible design, too hard, too easy, blahblahblah. I will just do whatever the hell I enjoy in a game and let the rest enjoy their parts.

  healboot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/25/09
Posts: 86

4/10/13 7:55:38 PM#72
I would like 40 man raids if they were instigated by the game and forced on the random people who hapened to be near said raid spot at random game generated time. Hell I might even stay up too late trying to help
  steamtank

Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/09
Posts: 390

4/10/13 8:18:07 PM#73

i now finally have a game to follow

 

Everyone spouts the 1% for WoW.... it was that 1% mark that drove people. If you hit it on your server, you were elite.

 

I find the casual shitfest WoW has turned into boring. I tried to resub, leveled a healer to get back into the feel of things.... i played for a month and just felt the game had no soul at all. There was nothing great to shoot for that was actually hard to get.

 

I earned my bene/anat staff in Vanilla, it was awesome to have. I earned my pink robes in AQ. I earned my tiger mount in ZG. I earned all my BWL tier gear.

We had just started learning Naxx when the xpac was announced to have no 40 man raids. Most of us quit the game.

  Bossalinie

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/29/07
Posts: 629

4/10/13 8:47:22 PM#74
Originally posted by Vembumees
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by Yalexy

Sorry, but I can't stop laughing at those, who think that it's too damn hard and complicated to organize 40 people for a raid.

We're organizing multilingual 500 or even 1000-player raids over different timezomes in EvE Online for several years now, and it's no problem at all.

The only people having problems with these big numbers are the ones that are simply not dedicated enough or having pronlems with ADHD.
A normal person shouldn't have any troubles to listen to the raidlead and follow orders for some two hours without running to the bathroom or kitchen every 10 minutes.
You know the time when the raid is supposed to start, so go pee and have dinner before the raid starts.
Voicechat discipline isn't that hard either. Simply mute your f*n microphone if you can't keep your mouth shut. Push-to-talk is mandatory aswell, as noone wants to hear you sneezing or talking to your GF etc.

Seriously, if you have troubles with a 40-player raid, then the problem is with you, not with the size of the raid.

Laugh all you wish.  I'm not going to center my life and its various patterns around a game. Its a hobby to me.  A source of entertainment, NOT a second job.   I spent almost six years in EVE, so I'm familiar with some of the fanatics involved with the game.  It doesn't surprise me that they have developed methods of semi controlling their blobs by this point.  But EVE is rather different from the typical MMO.  Not to mention the pro PvP EVE corps, tend to be much more hard core and professional, than most in other games.

That's great. And I can name some themepark mmorpg's that are just for your taste: Swtor, WoW, Rift, GW2. Also some less AAA titles, but I am not going bother naming them. Actually in addition, I know about 20+ of casual mmorpg's you can play as well, without that stupid-ass raiding.

You can play as a hobby in these ones and do everything in the game. 3 hours a day is enough, if you are efficient, you can even manage with less.. While those games don't really offer pretty much anything anymore to the people who do want to spend a lot of time doing the game content. I don't see how having one themepark game that as well caters to those players is a bad thing. I personally am tired of farming moba's and path of exile for years and would like to play an mmorpg that I wouldn't have completed in a month  like every themepark title there. I hope WildStar delivers that.

No one forces anyone to raid. If you don't want to be part of that 1% or don't find it appealing, then don't for fucks sake. Why can't it be in the game then? If you love leveling, then level, love pvp, pvp, love raiding, raid, love rp, rp. Why the hell do you need to boycott for the feature to be removed from the game overall? It's just amazing how casuals are so selfish, but somehow template the "elites" the assholes. I honestly can tell that I don't give a slightest fuck about any social, questing, etc bla bla bla features in the game, pretty much any features implemented into GW2, that are just implemented there for the average casual joe's enjoyment. But I'm not going to cry for an eternity for them being a horrible design, too hard, too easy, blahblahblah. I will just do whatever the hell I enjoy in a game and let the rest enjoy their parts.

Help me out here? Who is saying they will Boycott Wildstar or don't want 40 man raids in the game at all?

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1936

4/10/13 9:14:19 PM#75
Originally posted by Anubzara

It's amazing how negative the feedback for 40 man raids is considering all the factors.... All you disappointed casuals, consider it this way.

Just as it has been stated a thousand times over, 40 man raids are not the core of end game, they are one path. Then there are all these other paths for the different niches of characters.

Have you thought about it? That there is a community of hardcore raiders and you are basically flaming their end game niche and saying they don't deserve it while asking for support with all of the others? How self righteous and self absorbed can you people get?

Carbine is attempting to give every group of players something they can do and yet you flame them because you won't be able to do everything. Casuals continue to believe that everything should be handed to them or that they should magically get access to everything for no reason whatsoever... If you can't put the time and effort into composing a group of people, then don't do it! Its not an amazing metaphor but it would be like being jealous and saying how unfair it is that a player has an amazing crafted sword, but then not putting in the effort to level your own crafting skill to get it because it's "too hard".

Comon guys.... its ridiculous... When is it going to end? Oh thats right, it won't, because humanity is imperfect, jealous, unsatisfied, and doomed to ruin itself.

Sad day...

Branifus,

P.S. I don't post often on the forums if at all due to the negativity of the gaming community and the lack of maturity therein. So the trolls can flame my numbers but my words above have consistent logic. I'm open to other thought processes, but within every MMO i follow i see the same thing.

Unsatisfied people every time...

There has yet to be a game with raiding that doesn't shaft other play styles.  I'll believe it when I see it, till then, they're no different than every other hardcore loving developer.

  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4752

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

4/10/13 9:23:19 PM#76

at the end of the day, how many people you shove in a raid is not the defining factor of an mmo.

 

yes it's easier to design a 3man or 4man or 8man or 10man raid than it is a 40man raid.

 

at the end of the day, thanks to wow, raiders fall in two very distinct categories.

 

1) I want to play a decisive role in my raid, to bring high contribtuion to the success or failure of the fight.

 

2) i want to play a very small role in my raid, and watch the small bits add up to a very large whole and know I was part of success or failure of the fight, but that I was nothing without my team mates.

 

telling the other guy why his way is wrong is like telling the poster above why your religion is better.

 

Now to the core of the problem: where does a casual raider fall?

 

well let's see the types of casual raiders...

 

1) the super-nervous newbie who doesn't know much and doesn't want to cause wipes. he likes big raids. easy to hide.

2) the super-confident raider that can play his class well on paper, and likes to display his dps. he likes small raids.

3) the shy raider who does ok but hates being vocal, speaking in comms etc. he likes smaller raids. people notice him and adress him first. he'd get lost and overlooked in big ones.

4) the puzzle-solving guy. he can't produce a whole strategy on his own but for this one particular ability he has an answer that might work. He can work in either environments but likes the small raids. easier to get...'air time' to talk.

 

now i'll draw a conclusion...which is my own conclusion supported by ... shooter non-mmo games. as players begin they like to be in large groups. that way their inevitable failures won't ruin everyone's game. as they specialize they like small teams where they're visible. as they specialize further they like bigger teams again because they want more competitors on the dps meters etc.

 

and since everyone's skill level varies, you'll always see big-raid players and small-raid players. however in terms of whats out there, wildstar presents a very rare nowadays opportunity to raid at a larger sclae than... WOW. the popular raiding mmo. So many many mny raiders will join wildstar (maybe myself included although i don't like the graphics) just to re-experience large-scale raiding.

 

for every mmo offering large-scale raiding, there's 100 that do not. I see nothing wrong with giving some more variation to us, players.

  revslave

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 152

Welcome Home

4/10/13 10:36:00 PM#77
Originally posted by Yalexy

Sorry, but I can't stop laughing at those, who think that it's too damn hard and complicated to organize 40 people for a raid.

We're organizing multilingual 500 or even 1000-player raids over different timezomes in EvE Online for several years now, and it's no problem at all.

The only people having problems with these big numbers are the ones that are simply not dedicated enough or having pronlems with ADHD.
A normal person shouldn't have any troubles to listen to the raidlead and follow orders for some two hours without running to the bathroom or kitchen every 10 minutes.
You know the time when the raid is supposed to start, so go pee and have dinner before the raid starts.
Voicechat discipline isn't that hard either. Simply mute your f*n microphone if you can't keep your mouth shut. Push-to-talk is mandatory aswell, as noone wants to hear you sneezing or talking to your GF etc.

Seriously, if you have troubles with a 40-player raid, then the problem is with you, not with the size of the raid.

In My experience the problem was constantly fielding a raid force with just XX.  Having the ability to bring every person out while logistically very difficult is not the same as have an entire guild based around HC raiding.  It has been a very long time since I Raided in EQ2 but when the raid cap is 24 and the guild is 27-28 people raiding 20+ hours a week you come across other issues.

Comparing EVE to a raiding game is just not accurate and diminishes both games logistical hurdles. That being sad I believe that EVE meta-end game is a hell of a lot better than any raid system despite how many people you add.

  Thupli

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 426

4/10/13 10:49:48 PM#78

I think it could work if they make getting groups together easier.

 

a word of caution..  If you make the gear the best available, then it could ruin the game.  If the stat difference was maybe 7% total with all slots upgraded, then it could work, but the super inflation of über ness ruins balance for he rest of the game... That's why people stack pve gear in pvp.  Keep the % close to five percent total so that there is some incentive and it is the top pve gear but not to a ridiculous extent.

 

ps.  Thought I heard something about them scaling raids between 20 and 40 so it didn't have to be exact?  Anyone else hear that or something else.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5909

4/11/13 12:06:31 AM#79
Originally posted by Vorthanion

There has yet to be a game with raiding that doesn't shaft other play styles.  I'll believe it when I see it, till then, they're no different than every other hardcore loving developer.

Agreed.  Time will tell, but I'm super skeptical.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Djildjamesh

Novice Member

Joined: 12/09/11
Posts: 406

 
OP  4/11/13 5:25:52 AM#80

with having nearly 300 votes .... and 48% being up for 40man raids i guess we can come to the conclusion that at least on MMORPG.com there is quiet abit of interest in the 40man scene :)

 

thanks for all the feedback and interesting reads so far :)

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