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Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning

WAR (Warhammer Online) 

General Discussion  » What went wrong?

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78 posts found
  Dren_Utogi

Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1468

 
OP  4/09/13 9:28:38 AM#1

From what I played at launch and what I've just played now, they game seem a little better.

 

I'm curious from this community, do think it was Mark Jacobs failure as lead designer that crumbled the game ?

 

[mod edit - title changed]

reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  Betaguy

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2625

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

4/09/13 9:31:13 AM#2
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

From what I played at launch and what I've just played now, they game seem a little better.

 

I'm curious from this community, do think it was Mark Jacobs failure as lead designer that crumbled the game ?

 Even as lead designer he still took orders from someone else over at EA/Mythic even if it strayed from his vision, he did not get final say. The suits have all the power.

 

In my opinion you are just trying to get a bunch of doomsayers to agree and flood these boards with yet another obsured belief.

My wise advice, stop dealing in "What if's" and only deal in absolutes.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

4/09/13 9:39:10 AM#3
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

From what I played at launch and what I've just played now, they game seem a little better.

 

I'm curious from this community, do think it was Mark Jacobs failure as lead designer that crumbled the game ?

 Even as lead designer he still took orders from someone else over at EA/Mythic even if it strayed from his vision, he did not get final say. The suits have all the power.

 

In my opinion you are just trying to get a bunch of doomsayers to agree and flood these boards with yet another obsured belief.

My wise advice, stop dealing in "What if's" and only deal in absolutes.

The suits traditionally do not hold "all the power". A lot is left up to the leads as they tend to know more about what is actually going on than anything. While I agree that Dren is taking this a bit overboard, this is indeed a fair question. Based on what I have seen I would put most of War's problems on Mj's head since at worst he is the one who holds all of the responsibility as lead.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Dren_Utogi

Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1468

 
OP  4/09/13 9:45:44 AM#4

This thread could actually help  MJ so he doesn't make the same mistakes twice ?

 

WAR had every asset available to make an amazing game, but what killed it from being amamzing ?

reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  Hrotha

Novice Member

Joined: 4/25/08
Posts: 840

4/09/13 9:47:05 AM#5
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

From what I played at launch and what I've just played now, they game seem a little better.

 

I'm curious from this community, do think it was Mark Jacobs failure as lead designer that crumbled the game ?

Mate, I have just resubbed two months ago for one month and the game is completely the same. And I instantly remembered why I quit in the first place: The endgame. Oh my... Capturing the same zones over and over and over and over and over again until you get your rr100 and walk around and feel great and the other week you either reroll or log off.

And what happened to Scenarios? The event SCs (ekrund) are crowded and others do not open that frequently. And well, there are no new maps either.

So it is all the same mud. Fun in Tier1 like always and probably will be for eternity, T2 is chaotic due to nobody wants to lead a raid and ontop of that not many players are in it, T3 is the same except newer players are getting used to keeps now and their responsibilities and T4 is all about zergs, ganks and lags.

If you call that fun, go for it. It's so super boring for me that I insta-quit and never want to install it again.

 

Damn you memories! There is no such as forming a reality out of past and beautiful memories. The past is the past and games you once liked you will never admire them like you did in the first place.

/done - thx.

  Betaguy

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2625

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

4/09/13 9:47:49 AM#6
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

From what I played at launch and what I've just played now, they game seem a little better.

 

I'm curious from this community, do think it was Mark Jacobs failure as lead designer that crumbled the game ?

 Even as lead designer he still took orders from someone else over at EA/Mythic even if it strayed from his vision, he did not get final say. The suits have all the power.

 

In my opinion you are just trying to get a bunch of doomsayers to agree and flood these boards with yet another obsured belief.

My wise advice, stop dealing in "What if's" and only deal in absolutes.

The suits traditionally do not hold "all the power". A lot is left up to the leads as they tend to know more about what is actually going on than anything. While I agree that Dren is taking this a bit overboard, this is indeed a fair question. Based on what I have seen I would put most of War's problems on Mj's head since at worst he is the one who holds all of the responsibility as lead.

The leads do more facilitation than coming up with all the ideas and implementing them.  That is a team of people. As a lead you are also pressured by suits more so as well.

Suits: So.... MJ.... when will the PvP be done that is the last component... when can we get this out the door?

MJ: Well I have this great idea on how PvP should work, but, it will delay the game by an extra 3 months.

Suits: That is not going to work whatelse you got?

MJ: Well I got the standard PvP that we discussed and the team came up with.  We can have that ready in 3 weeks.

  Hjamnr

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/29/13
Posts: 174

4/09/13 9:48:01 AM#7
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

This thread could actually help  MJ so he doesn't make the same mistakes twice ?

 

WAR had every asset available to make an amazing game, but what killed it from being amamzing ?

Ah, but that isn't the purpose of this thread.  You created it simply as a back-handed way to try to bash CU through MJ.

  Betaguy

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2625

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

4/09/13 9:48:51 AM#8
[mod edit[

  Dren_Utogi

Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1468

 
OP  4/09/13 9:49:36 AM#9
Originally posted by 4bsolute
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

From what I played at launch and what I've just played now, they game seem a little better.

 

I'm curious from this community, do think it was Mark Jacobs failure as lead designer that crumbled the game ?

Mate, I have just resubbed two months ago for one month and the game is completely the same. And I instantly remembered why I quit in the first place: The endgame. Oh my... Capturing the same zones over and over and over and over and over again until you get your rr100 and walk around and feel great and the other week you either reroll or log off.

And what happened to Scenarios? The event SCs (ekrund) are crowded and others do not open that frequently. And well, there are no new maps either.

So it is all the same mud. Fun in Tier1 like always and probably will be for eternity, T2 is chaotic due to nobody wants to lead a raid and ontop of that not many players are in it, T3 is the same except newer players are getting used to keeps now and their responsibilities and T4 is all about zergs, ganks and lags.

If you call that fun, go for it. It's so super boring for me that I insta-quit and never want to install it again.

 

Damn you memories! There is no such as forming a reality out of past and beautiful memories. The past is the past and games you once liked you will never admire them like you did in the first place.

/done - thx.

SO maybe the starter areas have been streamlined ? 

can you go into sdetail about the tiers and why they are not good ?  I'm very interested to understand what the players thinks about the design of the game.

 

I'm not dissing you in anyway, but what are your PC Specs to understand lag issue, if it was the game or maybe the computer ?

reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  Dren_Utogi

Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1468

 
OP  4/09/13 9:53:39 AM#10
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

From what I played at launch and what I've just played now, they game seem a little better.

 

I'm curious from this community, do think it was Mark Jacobs failure as lead designer that crumbled the game ?

 Even as lead designer he still took orders from someone else over at EA/Mythic even if it strayed from his vision, he did not get final say. The suits have all the power.

 

In my opinion you are just trying to get a bunch of doomsayers to agree and flood these boards with yet another obsured belief.

My wise advice, stop dealing in "What if's" and only deal in absolutes.

The suits traditionally do not hold "all the power". A lot is left up to the leads as they tend to know more about what is actually going on than anything. While I agree that Dren is taking this a bit overboard, this is indeed a fair question. Based on what I have seen I would put most of War's problems on Mj's head since at worst he is the one who holds all of the responsibility as lead.

The leads do more facilitation than coming up with all the ideas and implementing them.  That is a team of people. As a lead you are also pressured by suits more so as well.

Suits: So.... MJ.... when will the PvP be done that is the last component... when can we get this out the door?

MJ: Well I have this great idea on how PvP should work, but, it will delay the game by an extra 3 months.

Suits: That is not going to work whatelse you got?

MJ: Well I got the standard PvP that we discussed and the team came up with.  We can have that ready in 3 weeks.

Yoou making that up and creating a stigma that MJ can't do no wrong ? IS that fair ? I don't think so. Lets look it from the players who play the game, not a magical world were MJ is having fake conversations to suit ?

reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

4/09/13 9:55:01 AM#11
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

From what I played at launch and what I've just played now, they game seem a little better.

 

I'm curious from this community, do think it was Mark Jacobs failure as lead designer that crumbled the game ?

 Even as lead designer he still took orders from someone else over at EA/Mythic even if it strayed from his vision, he did not get final say. The suits have all the power.

 

In my opinion you are just trying to get a bunch of doomsayers to agree and flood these boards with yet another obsured belief.

My wise advice, stop dealing in "What if's" and only deal in absolutes.

The suits traditionally do not hold "all the power". A lot is left up to the leads as they tend to know more about what is actually going on than anything. While I agree that Dren is taking this a bit overboard, this is indeed a fair question. Based on what I have seen I would put most of War's problems on Mj's head since at worst he is the one who holds all of the responsibility as lead.

The leads do more facilitation than coming up with all the ideas and implementing them.  That is a team of people. As a lead you are also pressured by suits more so as well.

Suits: So.... MJ.... when will the PvP be done that is the last component... when can we get this out the door?

MJ: Well I have this great idea on how PvP should work, but, it will delay the game by an extra 3 months.

Suits: That is not going to work whatelse you got?

MJ: Well I got the standard PvP that we discussed and the team came up with.  We can have that ready in 3 weeks.

That is not generally how its handled. While the suits will often set deadlines, and make demands for certain kinds of features its rarely that cut and dried, and they tend not to move the goal posts too much. That is sort of the leads job, setting the overall vision and keeping it on track. If the game sucks its because he screwed up somewhere.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Dren_Utogi

Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1468

 
OP  4/09/13 9:55:41 AM#12
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

From what I played at launch and what I've just played now, they game seem a little better.

 

I'm curious from this community, do think it was Mark Jacobs failure as lead designer that crumbled the game ?

 Even as lead designer he still took orders from someone else over at EA/Mythic even if it strayed from his vision, he did not get final say. The suits have all the power.

 

In my opinion you are just trying to get a bunch of doomsayers to agree and flood these boards with yet another obsured belief.

My wise advice, stop dealing in "What if's" and only deal in absolutes.

if you backed CU, then you just contridicted yourself, just so you know. 

 Once again you are dealing in "IF's" and no I have not donated yet.

fair enough, but what do think of WAR, withhout implicatinmg MJ at all, your opinion on the design of the game from character, world, pvp, ect.

reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  Betaguy

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2625

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

4/09/13 9:58:44 AM#13
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

From what I played at launch and what I've just played now, they game seem a little better.

 

I'm curious from this community, do think it was Mark Jacobs failure as lead designer that crumbled the game ?

 Even as lead designer he still took orders from someone else over at EA/Mythic even if it strayed from his vision, he did not get final say. The suits have all the power.

 

In my opinion you are just trying to get a bunch of doomsayers to agree and flood these boards with yet another obsured belief.

My wise advice, stop dealing in "What if's" and only deal in absolutes.

The suits traditionally do not hold "all the power". A lot is left up to the leads as they tend to know more about what is actually going on than anything. While I agree that Dren is taking this a bit overboard, this is indeed a fair question. Based on what I have seen I would put most of War's problems on Mj's head since at worst he is the one who holds all of the responsibility as lead.

The leads do more facilitation than coming up with all the ideas and implementing them.  That is a team of people. As a lead you are also pressured by suits more so as well.

Suits: So.... MJ.... when will the PvP be done that is the last component... when can we get this out the door?

MJ: Well I have this great idea on how PvP should work, but, it will delay the game by an extra 3 months.

Suits: That is not going to work whatelse you got?

MJ: Well I got the standard PvP that we discussed and the team came up with.  We can have that ready in 3 weeks.

That is not generally how its handled. While the suits will often set deadlines, and make demands for certain kinds of features its rarely that cut and dried, and they tend not to move the goal posts too much. That is sort of the leads job, setting the overall vision and keeping it on track. If the game sucks its because he screwed up somewhere.

 Lol, ain't nobody got time for you... I am done.  For the record I don't think it is that cut and dry but I didn't feel like writing a whole scripted story.  I felt any pleeb could grasp the point I was trying to make.

  Betaguy

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2625

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

4/09/13 10:02:16 AM#14
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

From what I played at launch and what I've just played now, they game seem a little better.

 

I'm curious from this community, do think it was Mark Jacobs failure as lead designer that crumbled the game ?

 Even as lead designer he still took orders from someone else over at EA/Mythic even if it strayed from his vision, he did not get final say. The suits have all the power.

 

In my opinion you are just trying to get a bunch of doomsayers to agree and flood these boards with yet another obsured belief.

My wise advice, stop dealing in "What if's" and only deal in absolutes.

if you backed CU, then you just contridicted yourself, just so you know. 

 Once again you are dealing in "IF's" and no I have not donated yet.

fair enough, but what do think of WAR, withhout implicatinmg MJ at all, your opinion on the design of the game from character, world, pvp, ect.

 My honest opinion... I liked WAR for a few months but as with every MMO in the last 10 years they all feel the same to me. I get tired as I feel I have been there done that.  I am looking for something game changing.  I love change and embrace it in every way, every day.  I think CU will be different, just from the Final Fantasy/Link style of MAP roaming makes it very unique for a MMO.  Can't wait to see the rest before I donate.  I will wait till the very last day before donating that way I will see more info to help make better judgement.

  Ogrelin

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 640

MMORPG-Player - Since 1997!
GM of Svea Ulvar

4/09/13 10:08:29 AM#15

I understand some old players of DAoC and Warhammer may be concerned.

I had fun in DAoC and WAR, I have no idea if MJ was behind the 2 faction setup in WAR or if a three faction game ever was on the board, there's not 3 obvious factions in Warhammer lore. He probably WAS behing ToA expansion in DAoC, but who hasn't made a bad dessions in his life? DaoC is still running... so it's not a failure.

CU is another matter, if it brings me another 2 years of gaming like WAR I'll be happy, if it brings 5-6 like DAoC it'll be awesome!

  Orangu

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/12
Posts: 33

4/09/13 10:12:28 AM#16
I do not place the failure of WAR on Mark Jacobs...that's all EA!!!

  Hjamnr

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/29/13
Posts: 174

4/09/13 10:13:47 AM#17
Originally posted by Betaguy

 My honest opinion... I liked WAR for a few months but as with every MMO in the last 10 years they all feel the same to me. I get tired as I feel I have been there done that.  I am looking for something game changing.  I love change and embrace it in every way, every day.  I think CU will be different, just from the Final Fantasy/Link style of MAP roaming makes it very unique for a MMO.  Can't wait to see the rest before I donate.  I will wait till the very last day before donating that way I will see more info to help make better judgement.

Why not pledge $25 now, then choose to drop or raise it on the very last day?  It doesn't cost you anything to do that.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

4/09/13 10:14:20 AM#18
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

From what I played at launch and what I've just played now, they game seem a little better.

 

I'm curious from this community, do think it was Mark Jacobs failure as lead designer that crumbled the game ?

 Even as lead designer he still took orders from someone else over at EA/Mythic even if it strayed from his vision, he did not get final say. The suits have all the power.

 

In my opinion you are just trying to get a bunch of doomsayers to agree and flood these boards with yet another obsured belief.

My wise advice, stop dealing in "What if's" and only deal in absolutes.

The suits traditionally do not hold "all the power". A lot is left up to the leads as they tend to know more about what is actually going on than anything. While I agree that Dren is taking this a bit overboard, this is indeed a fair question. Based on what I have seen I would put most of War's problems on Mj's head since at worst he is the one who holds all of the responsibility as lead.

The leads do more facilitation than coming up with all the ideas and implementing them.  That is a team of people. As a lead you are also pressured by suits more so as well.

Suits: So.... MJ.... when will the PvP be done that is the last component... when can we get this out the door?

MJ: Well I have this great idea on how PvP should work, but, it will delay the game by an extra 3 months.

Suits: That is not going to work whatelse you got?

MJ: Well I got the standard PvP that we discussed and the team came up with.  We can have that ready in 3 weeks.

That is not generally how its handled. While the suits will often set deadlines, and make demands for certain kinds of features its rarely that cut and dried, and they tend not to move the goal posts too much. That is sort of the leads job, setting the overall vision and keeping it on track. If the game sucks its because he screwed up somewhere.

 Lol, ain't nobody got time for you... I am done.  For the record I don't think it is that cut and dry but I didn't feel like writing a whole scripted story.  I felt any pleeb could grasp the point I was trying to make.

lol really? Pleeb? Seriously? It is the lead devs job to ship a workable product in the time provided. Yes, publishers can demand and have products shipped too early, yes they can demand that certain products have certain types of gameplay if they believe it will drastically increase sales, it still falls on the lead developer to make all of that work within the vision of the game, and they plan crunch time and side projects accordingly.

Trying to blame the Suits instead of the LEAD dev is pure foolishness.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  botrytis

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2516

4/09/13 10:26:05 AM#19
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

The leads do more facilitation than coming up with all the ideas and implementing them.  That is a team of people. As a lead you are also pressured by suits more so as well.

MJ: So.... when will the PvP be done that is the last component... when can we get this out the door?

Coder: Well I have this great idea on how PvP should work, but, it will delay the game by an extra 3 months.

MJ: That is not going to work whatelse you got?

Coder: Well I got the standard PvP that we discussed and the team came up with.  We can have that ready in 3 weeks.

Yoou making that up and creating a stigma that MJ can't do no wrong ? IS that fair ? I don't think so. Lets look it from the players who play the game, not a magical world were MJ is having fake conversations to suit ?

Project leads can also be the people who drive the game - so the above fixed fake discussion could have taken place.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18999

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

4/09/13 10:29:19 AM#20
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

From what I played at launch and what I've just played now, they game seem a little better.

 

I'm curious from this community, do think it was Mark Jacobs failure as lead designer that crumbled the game ?

 Even as lead designer he still took orders from someone else over at EA/Mythic even if it strayed from his vision, he did not get final say. The suits have all the power.

 

In my opinion you are just trying to get a bunch of doomsayers to agree and flood these boards with yet another obsured belief.

My wise advice, stop dealing in "What if's" and only deal in absolutes.

The suits traditionally do not hold "all the power". A lot is left up to the leads as they tend to know more about what is actually going on than anything. While I agree that Dren is taking this a bit overboard, this is indeed a fair question. Based on what I have seen I would put most of War's problems on Mj's head since at worst he is the one who holds all of the responsibility as lead.

The leads do more facilitation than coming up with all the ideas and implementing them.  That is a team of people. As a lead you are also pressured by suits more so as well.

Suits: So.... MJ.... when will the PvP be done that is the last component... when can we get this out the door?

MJ: Well I have this great idea on how PvP should work, but, it will delay the game by an extra 3 months.

Suits: That is not going to work whatelse you got?

MJ: Well I got the standard PvP that we discussed and the team came up with.  We can have that ready in 3 weeks.

That is not generally how its handled. While the suits will often set deadlines, and make demands for certain kinds of features its rarely that cut and dried, and they tend not to move the goal posts too much. That is sort of the leads job, setting the overall vision and keeping it on track. If the game sucks its because he screwed up somewhere.

 Lol, ain't nobody got time for you... I am done.  For the record I don't think it is that cut and dry but I didn't feel like writing a whole scripted story.  I felt any pleeb could grasp the point I was trying to make.

lol really? Pleeb? Seriously? It is the lead devs job to ship a workable product in the time provided. Yes, publishers can demand and have products shipped too early, yes they can demand that certain products have certain types of gameplay if they believe it will drastically increase sales, it still falls on the lead developer to make all of that work within the vision of the game, and they plan crunch time and side projects accordingly.

Trying to blame the Suits instead of the LEAD dev is pure foolishness.

Not any more foolish than trying to figure out who to blame years after the issue is done and over with.

 

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

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