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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Neverwinter: What It Is...and Isn't

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86 posts found
  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2994

I actually still like MMORPGs

4/08/13 11:16:53 PM#41
Originally posted by Arshoon

I have personally boycotted this game. It was intended to be NWN3, and the NWN community is still big, was like 5 million people at one point if I remember right. NWN was a fantastic way for DMs and players to share their vision of their worlds. People could make adventures in the toolset and share them as well as content hak packs. There still is an NWN section hosted on ign.

Obsidian tried with NWN2 to follow the legacy and failed, mostly with poor planning and implementation (the worst idea was to use Granny to export 3D animations, a VERY expensive program).

When I heard NC Soft was purchased by Perfect World Entertainment and they turned the beloved NWN into a F2P POS MMO, the community was in outrage. But I guess that all got lost on the MMO crowd.

You can have this piece of crap. Its not what it should have been, and PW can suck a fat one for thinking everyhting needs to be an MMO.

umm...you need to do some more research. Cryptic developed Neverwinter, and they were bought by PWE. Not sure where you are getting this NCSoft stuff from.

And Neverwinter was never meant to be a successor to Neverwinter Nights, hence why its not called Neverwinter Nights 3. They are revolving it around Neverwinter though specifically because a couple book series (such as Salvatore's) are currently in Neverwinter and the game takes place right after his last book.

Some people need to chill the !@#$ out and actually get their story straight before they nerd rage all over the place. You still play NWN? Great! Why do you need a new one then?!

  Thebozz

Novice Member

Joined: 1/10/10
Posts: 117

4/08/13 11:24:11 PM#42
I haven't really followed this game, but the fact it is based on 4e ruleset, will probably get me to give it a try.  I have really enjoyed 4e and am not looking forward to next at all.
  Etherignis

Novice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 242

4/08/13 11:25:05 PM#43
Foundry content will keep this alive but i have a feeling that some people will create useless quest that wont make sense in the foundry. I wish cryptic add user-generated content for champions online.
  Xiaoki

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2438

4/08/13 11:25:42 PM#44


Originally posted by godzilr1
If it takes place 50 years before... how are people dead and buried?

Thats because its not a difference of 50 years.

Neverwinter Nights 2 took place in 1374 DR and Neverwinter Online would be around 1465 DR.

So, more like 90 years.


Dear Article Writer, a little research goes a long way.

  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

4/08/13 11:29:29 PM#45
I don't understand why 4e comes up with NW MMO. It has nothing to do with 4e mechanics except for the names and terms it uses to mask its generic MMO mechanics. But the game is still D&D - just like any novel in FR is called D&D novel. Its a D&D MMO.
  Deivos

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/04
Posts: 1703

Iarð skal rifna, ok upphiminn.

4/08/13 11:49:59 PM#46

I gotta say this article is kind of inaccurate.

 

Like the rebuttal of comaplints that the game is 'not D&D' by claiming it matches 4E so closely.

 

No, this is not me saying that 4E is not D&D. This is me saying Neverwinter does not emulate 4E.

 

Like their example of at will, encounter, and dailies. At will are evvectively the same, but both encounter and dailies got retrofitted to account for a rwaltime world by becoming cooldown based for encounters, and a buildup for a daily power.

 

Notably, this is also done alongside the addition, removal, or repurposing of abilities within classes to make them have more uniform mechanics, fiting to the single framework they built for the game.

 

This too is a problem stacked against the limitations introduced to the class building. Stats are the only thing you influence when you generate a character, and progression has many elements rfedesigned into different forms, like feats acting more like a skill tree (not a full one, just a small three branch design to account for the class in question.

 

And that's the other thing, class design is considerably different.

Did they lift classes out of 4E? Yes, and they managed with a few to have to do very minimal tweaking.

However, this was at the cost of much of the variance capable of being implemented. Multiclassing got shot in the foot (hwile multiclassing in 4E was never strong, there were actually some quite novel and effective class combinations capable of being made via the hybrid class and multiclassing feats, psion/wizard for example)

Many of the character designs that would have come from building the classes more akin to their sheet presentation and the flexibility of generation that entails would have opened the game at a basic level to much more player personalization. There are many class designs and elements that under the current framework, can't work. They each have to be built into the game individually as their own class with a strict set of functions that fit into the way the current system works, and that means breaking and changing aspects of classes that have more novel elements. 

Warlocks and Spellswords will see a loss or dramatic change of weapon mechanics.

Vampires probably will never make it, and if they did their feeding effects would likely be removed in favor of more straightforward lifesteal effects.

Blackguard effects similarly would likely to be changed to favor a 'buff stack' that they build up and use.

 

This is also a problem juxtaposed against the elements each race would have more strongly contributed. Elements similarly downplayed. Take three strong examples in the Changeling, Kalashtar, and Genasi. All three of those races have elements that the game just straight up does not support, and implementation  of them as unique elements of that race is also something the game can't properly represent.

 

There are many aspects that divide the way Neverwinter is designed from the way D&D 4E works, and it's not just on the level of "what compromises were necessary to make a realtime MMO" but on intentional design differences that distances the game from the way the source material works and the possibilities it provides.

As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero. - Vaarsuvius

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2741

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

4/09/13 12:17:02 AM#47

Because of what it is (all those things listed in the article) vastly outweighs all that it isn't.

 

If someone would of told me these things prior to me even hearing about the game, theres no way I would look into the game as most of the things it isn't is what I yearn for in an MMO but becasue I tested it without knowing what it does I have came to love the game for all it does do well, and those are vastly different from what my norm is.

 

The game is flat out fun as hell and it is exactly what I am looking for in an MMO right now, way before I knew it.  Sounds funny but its the truth.  The game and the foundry is jsut amazing!

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  justerab

Novice Member

Joined: 4/09/13
Posts: 1

4/09/13 12:21:43 AM#48

The game is not even out yet, not only is your opinion silly and wrong. It shows that you are a troll and shall some day be tied down ontop of a spiked bed and shat on by a parade of wild elephants.

 

Good Day To You Sir

  JimmyYO

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/11
Posts: 541

4/09/13 12:33:10 AM#49

There is absolutely 0 chance Suzie Ford(article writer) is a D&D fan because this game plays nothing like 4th at all. One of the most important aspects of D&D, character creation, is in no way shape or form mimicked by Neverwinter.

You can't make any cool builds or do what you want, you can't even so much as throw a bow on a fighter. It's all preset garbage and that's what makes Neverwinter a laughable D&D knockoff, at best.

The very essence of D&D is a sandbox style and for two online D&D games, in a row, to make these condensed closed worlds is just a travesty. Makes me wonder where they find these people that just want to repeatedly spit on the D&D name?

  redcapp

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/11
Posts: 733

4/09/13 1:03:10 AM#50
Wow.  It's really surprising how many people thing this game is connected in any way whatsoever to NWN.  They share nothing more than the location, Neverwinter.
  red_cruiser

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/07
Posts: 459

4/09/13 1:10:17 AM#51

Cryptic isn't really trying to swing for the fences with this one; instead, they'll just be happy trying to wrangle as much $$$ as possible from whatever people they do get to play this game.  It sort of makes me cringe when I see recycled animations from Champions Online and the same blank expression on the character faces that haunted many of my superheroes. 

That all being said- this game is about as good of a vision of an "action orientated MMORPG based off the 4th edition rules" as you could get.  That still leaves alot of questions about why one would bother making such a game.

  goemoe

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 160

4/09/13 1:32:40 AM#52

It doesn't matter if the game is called MMO MMORPG or MMVFT, it is a game you can play with friends/guild/someone, it is a fantasy game and uses the (stupid) 4th edition D&D rules.

If you're still interested, look it up. It is as simple as this. For me it has been intriguing, but they did not create enough stuff to get me testing it. I might look again in a year or two. 4th edition is easily the worst D&D edition ever, so it has to offer much in other aspects and for me the game is lacking.

 
  Card1nal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 2

4/09/13 2:32:43 AM#53

I m not a D&D series fan though I had the impression that every RPG is actually a D&D clone (and I mean levels, classes, quests were introduced to us by D&D games), the same way that every epic fantasy novel is a LotR clone one way or another. Of course an electronic product can never simulate the real life "playing D&D with friends" experience, so I can't understand the "it's not D&D" statement.

 

But beside this, after I spent some hours during last beta, I must say that the game feels a bit... amateur. I ve played Darkfall (which is created by a small greek company if u believe it) and it felt better in many ways. I found the graphic art lacking (it actually reminds me of low quality fantasy art from the 80s... or this is exactly the devs purpose?), controls that reminded me of a diablo clone and, please oh please remove that mage's kung-fu-I-bless-you-all battle stance.

 

Ofc it's free to play but imho it felt like a hasty, low budget project rather than an ambitious new MMO. I hope the devs (and mostly the Forge mechanic) will prove me wrong, but until then I would pass.

 

(And btw 200$ for the "colelctor's" isn't it a bit... well pricey?)

 

 

  User Deleted
4/09/13 2:45:53 AM#54
Originally posted by Yamota

According to Wikipedia:

Massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) (muh'-mor-puh-guh) is a genre of role-playing video games in which a very large number of players interact with one another within a virtual game world.

So, given that the majority of the playerbase are in private instances, and thus not able to interact with 99% of the rest of the people, I would argue that heavily instanced game are NOT MMORPGs, by its very definition.

More over, instances are NOT persistent and with the majority of the gameworld in instances, then again that is a point of argument if heavily instanced games are MMOs or not. I say not.

Then neither are WoW, EQ2, Aion, TERA, TSW, Lineage 2 or any other game that revolves around instanced end games.

Your definition would leave this site pretty sparse. I mean what does that really leave? Vanguard and Runescape probably.

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5251

4/09/13 3:24:56 AM#55
If anything says wait until the game is released and see what the reviews say, then this thread does.
  Hrotha

Novice Member

Joined: 4/25/08
Posts: 840

4/09/13 4:18:18 AM#56
Originally posted by jtcgs

Seeing as how Neverwinter Nights was D&D and this game is basically that game in online form...it is D&D.

It can be as solo or group oriented as YOU want it to be, if you are a ture D&D player you would be ROLEPLAYING your character and not trying to solo anyway but instead finding ways to play grouped...and there will be no shortage in group content with the foundry in place and being able to set difficulty.

How is this game D&D? It's a complete Action-RPG, basicly a Tera. Where do you see any bit of D&D in it? You dont even notice any role-check (dmg-wise) and I've found stats not to be that important as it is in any more RPGish singeplayer game. Or even DDO itself (which I never played for long, since I was saying byebye to MMOs @that time).

  xerax

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/31/04
Posts: 55

4/09/13 4:45:28 AM#57

My heart has always been with 3.0 and 3.5.

Over the last couple of years I have played a couple of 4E PnP campaigns. There is alot I dont like about 4e but it has begun to grow on me. It always seemed to us that many on the 4e rules were balanced in the style of an mmo, and maybe it would make a better MMO than a PnP game.

I got into the last open beta weekend and I was really surprised to find its really nothing like 4e DnD, Yes its got the name, yes the fast recharge attacks are called "at will powers", the slower recharge attacks are called "encounter powers" and the "on fully charged" energy powers are called Daily powers. But its more like somebody has put a D&D skin on a typical action MMO.  I mean anyone could sit down with a new unbranded MMO and say lets call that an encounter power, that X, that Y, Put D&D in the title and bingo we got a new D&D MMO.

This is particulairly obvious where lots of standard MMO stats that have no place in 4E D&D creep in, Power, Crit rating etc etc.

In an already oversaturated market where many consumers are already unhappy with how similiar many MMO's are I think it was a mistake to sacrifice the specific character of the 4E system to reskin the standard mmo system using in games such as SWTOR , Rfits or whatever.

Still it free so maybe I will give it another try, just a little disappointing

 
 
  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2741

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

4/09/13 4:51:33 AM#58
Originally posted by xerax

My heart has always been with 3.0 and 3.5.

Over the last couple of years I have played a couple of 4E PnP campaigns. There is alot I dont like about 4e but it has begun to grow on me. It always seemed to us that many on the 4e rules were balanced in the style of an mmo, and maybe it would make a better MMO than a PnP game.

I got into the last open beta weekend and I was really surprised to find its really nothing like 4e DnD, Yes its got the name, yes the fast recharge attacks are called "at will powers", the slower recharge attacks are called "encounter powers" and the "on fully charged" energy powers are called Daily powers. But its more like somebody has put a D&D skin on a typical action MMO.  I mean anyone could sit down with a new unbranded MMO and say lets call that an encounter power, that X, that Y, Put D&D in the title and bingo we got a new D&D MMO.

This is particulairly obvious where lots of standard MMO stats that have no place in 4E D&D creep in, Power, Crit rating etc etc.

In an already oversaturated market where many consumers are already unhappy with how similiar many MMO's are I think it was a mistake to sacrifice the specific character of the 4E system to reskin the standard mmo system using in games such as SWTOR , Rfits or whatever.

Still it free so maybe I will give it another try, just a little disappointing

 
 

My heart is with and always will be with AD&D 2.5 but it doesnt mean that a video game based on 4e is bad, I'll never play 4e on P&P but you cant transition the true heart of the pen and paper experience to a video format and as such I will play any D&D game in video form if the game is fun.......and NWO is tons of fun.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Sornin

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/07
Posts: 1138

Too weird to live, and too rare to die

4/09/13 5:13:52 AM#59

Most people who liked Neverwinter in the beta weekends and what the developers said about the cash shop and how it is truly F2P, etc., are going to be in for a nice surprise in open beta and launch, that is all I will say.

Oh, they may even roll it out in the fourth beta weekend. The forums are going to be on fire. :/

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

4/09/13 5:50:04 AM#60
Originally posted by Scot
If anything says wait until the game is released and see what the reviews say, then this thread does.

how does that make any sense for a f2p game.. why not just try it yourself then let someone elses opinion tell you if its good or not

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

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