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General Discussion  » Now that Camelot Unchained is coming - how will this game really fare?

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104 posts found
  alakram

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/02/06
Posts: 2240

4/16/13 1:01:16 PM#81
Originally posted by Sentnl

Hahahahaah, now that it's coming! ...In two years time.

Or maybe even more.

-=AlaKraM=-
Don't fight against poverty, fight against greed.
My Lord of the Rings Gallery

  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

4/16/13 1:02:39 PM#82
Originally posted by Rhazmuz
Lets see if CU gets funded first, eh?

Not to mention it has like 2+ years of development ahead of it.   I learned a long time ago to just sit back and let these games get much closer to release before I pay attention to them.  Otherwise the wait seems like forever.  

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  nationalcity

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/31/04
Posts: 343

4/16/13 2:40:50 PM#83

This post is hilarious I mean really ESO is releasing this year....

 

CU maybe in 2015 if were lucky.....

 

You really think people are not gonna play ESO because there waiting till 2015 or more for CU?

  nationalcity

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/31/04
Posts: 343

4/16/13 2:44:19 PM#84
Originally posted by will75

ESO will be dead by the time CU comes out, if it even does.So what does it matter? Where's rift now? Where's Aion now? Where's AOC now? Where's SWTOR now? Where's GW2 now? (ok... but you gotta admit, the WvW is horrible implemented). Really? I can carry more supplies because i'm rank 2? lol?

 

 

Maybe i'm ignorant. but is ESO not a PVE game first? Then PvP? Will the best gear in PVP be equal to pve gear? Will there be PVP progression? Ranks  etc? 

 

PVE games who do pvp as an afterthought are never good  ... see wow

Have you even read anything about TESO because this whole post has so much misinformation its hilarious.....

 

Second just because the games you listed don't have WOW sub# doesn't make them dead lol....

 

 

  Thorbrand

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/04
Posts: 1217

4/16/13 2:51:43 PM#85
CU has a long ways to go before it is coming. They have to raise 800K + in 15days before we can even say it will start development.
  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2594

4/16/13 2:52:41 PM#86
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Im a hard core DAoC fan and CU is not enough of a MMO to make me even care to look into it much past the fact there is no PvE. No open world dungeons or lands to explore and enjoy with the fear of being attacked by players. CU IMO is not a MMO, its a battle ground taken from a great MMO. 15 bucks a month to play a battleground. ESO has 10 times more content and 3 faction DAoC RvR. As a DAoC fan this is a easy choice.

Virtually every single thing you said in this paragraph is factually incorrect.

  grafh

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/05
Posts: 309

4/16/13 2:55:39 PM#87
OP is jumping the gun a little early... Camelot unchained is still how many years off while TESO may be out later this year?
  Eol-

Novice Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 275

4/16/13 3:19:29 PM#88
Originally posted by Moraxo
Even if ESO turns out well (and i hope it does), i don't see it's endgame RvR as major threat to the CU concept. A pure RvR game has just so many more opportunities that you can't pull off in an allround crowdpleaser game. I might play both and have a great, unique experience with each of them. But ESO couldn't replace CU's RvR (provided it gets funded and turns out as planned, ofcourse), and CU couldn't come close to delivering the ammount of content ESO does. 

Again, it doesnt make any sense that ESO RvR cant compete with CU's RvR simply because ESO has PvE in it doesnt make any sense, because by that definition DAoC couldnt provide as good RvR because it had PvE in it too. I dont see why the lack of any PvE suddenly ensures that the RvR will be better than a game that has both. 

Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC

  Eol-

Novice Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 275

4/16/13 3:22:35 PM#89
Originally posted by Thorbrand
CU has a long ways to go before it is coming. They have to raise 800K + in 15days before we can even say it will start development.

And in any event, $2million is a drop in the bucket for a game in 2013. Yes the lack of PvE would save money, but not 95+% of the money.

Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC

  Leiloni

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/16/12
Posts: 383

4/16/13 3:26:11 PM#90
CU is an entirely different game, 2 years away at best, and not even fully funded yet. Why are we even discussing this?
  Moraxo

Novice Member

Joined: 4/15/13
Posts: 17

4/16/13 3:57:17 PM#91
Originally posted by Eol-
Originally posted by Thorbrand
CU has a long ways to go before it is coming. They have to raise 800K + in 15days before we can even say it will start development.

And in any event, $2million is a drop in the bucket for a game in 2013. Yes the lack of PvE would save money, but not 95+% of the money.

They'll have 5 million actually, which should be completely sufficient to pay the salary of a ~20 people development team + equippment for 2-3 years. Also, PvP is very player driven and really only needs a space to take place in and some rules, whereas PvE needs huge zones for the entire level range, NPC's, quests/storylines, monsters etc.. I'm confident that they'll make it.

 

Originally posted by Eol-
Originally posted by Moraxo
Even if ESO turns out well (and i hope it does), i don't see it's endgame RvR as major threat to the CU concept. A pure RvR game has just so many more opportunities that you can't pull off in an allround crowdpleaser game. I might play both and have a great, unique experience with each of them. But ESO couldn't replace CU's RvR (provided it gets funded and turns out as planned, ofcourse), and CU couldn't come close to delivering the ammount of content ESO does. 

Again, it doesnt make any sense that ESO RvR cant compete with CU's RvR simply because ESO has PvE in it doesnt make any sense, because by that definition DAoC couldnt provide as good RvR because it had PvE in it too. I dont see why the lack of any PvE suddenly ensures that the RvR will be better than a game that has both. 

DAoC's PvP suffered majorly because it became too dependant on PvE. Ultimately the PvP can be just as good, ofcourse, but not many PvPers will be willing to put up with the PvE grind required to participate.

Let's just give an example of stuff the CU team don't has to worry about:

As i mentioned, the PvE grind in order to PvP is a huge factor. If the best gear comes from PvE, PvPers will be unhappy. If it comes from PvP, PvEers will be unhappy. If the RvR warfare has any sort of lasting, global effect on a realm, PvEers will feel left out. If it doesn't, RvR won't feel meaningful. If battles are too easy to jump in and out of & the penalties of losing are minimal, PvP won't feel rewarding. If it's the other way around, you'll displease all the casual gamers wanting to give it a shot. Furthermore, you'll have to make each class viable in PvE as well as PvP, while not making them overpowered in the 2 fields.

I'm not saying it's impossible to work all this stuff out and get a great experience for PvPers and PvEers alike, but it's insanely difficult to achieve. I actually think CSE have a better shot at creating a compelling RvR system on a low budget without having to consider the impact of every PvP design decision on PvE and vice versa. than zenimax has with their huge team and hundred-million-dollar budgets. ESO can't afford to offend casual PvE gamers, whereas CU doesn't ever have to consider them in the first place.

  Bad.dog

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 1155

4/16/13 5:09:20 PM#92
Originally posted by Moraxo
Originally posted by Eol-
 

DAoC's PvP suffered majorly because it became too dependant on PvE. Ultimately the PvP can be just as good, ofcourse, but not many PvPers will be willing to put up with the PvE grind required to participate.

Let's just give an example of stuff the CU team don't has to worry about:

As i mentioned, the PvE grind in order to PvP is a huge factor. If the best gear comes from PvE, PvPers will be unhappy. If it comes from PvP, PvEers will be unhappy. If the RvR warfare has any sort of lasting, global effect on a realm, PvEers will feel left out. If it doesn't, RvR won't feel meaningful. If battles are too easy to jump in and out of & the penalties of losing are minimal, PvP won't feel rewarding. If it's the other way around, you'll displease all the casual gamers wanting to give it a shot. Furthermore, you'll have to make each class viable in PvE as well as PvP, while not making them overpowered in the 2 fields.

I'm not saying it's impossible to work all this stuff out and get a great experience for PvPers and PvEers alike, but it's insanely difficult to achieve. I actually think CSE have a better shot at creating a compelling RvR system on a low budget without having to consider the impact of every PvP design decision on PvE and vice versa. than zenimax has with their huge team and hundred-million-dollar budgets. ESO can't afford to offend casual PvE gamers, whereas CU doesn't ever have to consider them in the first place.

I've heard less crap from a shady used car salesman ,,,perhaps when CU gets beyond the vapourware stage it will have it's own merits to stand on

  DJMantiss

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 103

4/16/13 5:14:38 PM#93

I loved DAoC, but Unchained does not look to be the next great RvR. The focus just seems off and the hype, while great, is just hype, we don't really know if it will even be funded. They over $1million, but need almost another $900,000 within the next 15 days. In addition they have at this moment less than 8,000 backers which is not a good sign. 

 

So for now I am waiting for Wildstar and possibly ESO over what Camelot may or may never become.

 

  Arbroath

Novice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 185

4/16/13 9:20:09 PM#94
Originally posted by Bad.dog
Originally posted by Moraxo
Originally posted by Eol-
 

DAoC's PvP suffered majorly because it became too dependant on PvE. Ultimately the PvP can be just as good, ofcourse, but not many PvPers will be willing to put up with the PvE grind required to participate.

Let's just give an example of stuff the CU team don't has to worry about:

As i mentioned, the PvE grind in order to PvP is a huge factor. If the best gear comes from PvE, PvPers will be unhappy. If it comes from PvP, PvEers will be unhappy. If the RvR warfare has any sort of lasting, global effect on a realm, PvEers will feel left out. If it doesn't, RvR won't feel meaningful. If battles are too easy to jump in and out of & the penalties of losing are minimal, PvP won't feel rewarding. If it's the other way around, you'll displease all the casual gamers wanting to give it a shot. Furthermore, you'll have to make each class viable in PvE as well as PvP, while not making them overpowered in the 2 fields.

I'm not saying it's impossible to work all this stuff out and get a great experience for PvPers and PvEers alike, but it's insanely difficult to achieve. I actually think CSE have a better shot at creating a compelling RvR system on a low budget without having to consider the impact of every PvP design decision on PvE and vice versa. than zenimax has with their huge team and hundred-million-dollar budgets. ESO can't afford to offend casual PvE gamers, whereas CU doesn't ever have to consider them in the first place.

I've heard less crap from a shady used car salesman ,,,perhaps when CU gets beyond the vapourware stage it will have it's own merits to stand on

Cheers for adding absolutely nothing to the thread. I love how people use "vapourware" because it's supposed to instill some sort of fear for getting involved in a title. Sorry, I'm not scared. I think CU's concepts are solid, their team seems more than capable, and their early models and artwork are compelling. I'm sure it will fund, but won't have an effect on ESO for a couple years. I also agree with most of what Moraxo said. Again, best of luck to both titles.

It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom — for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself. ~Declaration of Arbroath

  RelGn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/05
Posts: 515

4/16/13 9:23:21 PM#95
Originally posted by tristanryan

MORE Camelot advertising?? Seriously? Every single corner if this website is spammed with camelot kickstarter B.S.

 

You are making me sick of the game before i even know what it is.

indeed besides im not seeing this game gets funded

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/16/13 9:27:40 PM#96

dont think it will make much difference

CU's competition will be other 100% PVP games like planetside 2

or very heavyily PVP orientated games like DFUW

 

TESO will be a 50/50 PVP/PVE game like GW2 (at best)

  Chakula

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/20/07
Posts: 12

4/16/13 9:30:13 PM#97

This game will do fine, because it is coming out this year, and Camelot Unchained won't be released for AT LEAST two years (2015).

 

I can see what you're saying, but I don't think there will be fierce competition, as each game is looking for a niche crowd. ESO being the ES crowd, and CU the DAoC crowd.

 

Both games, I think and hope that they will be good in their own rights. Bad games only hurt the industry and the frequency at which they are produced. So don't wish bad on other games, if you don't like it move on.

  Eol-

Novice Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 275

4/16/13 10:32:10 PM#98
Originally posted by Moraxo
Originally posted by Eol-
Originally posted by Thorbrand
CU has a long ways to go before it is coming. They have to raise 800K + in 15days before we can even say it will start development.

And in any event, $2million is a drop in the bucket for a game in 2013. Yes the lack of PvE would save money, but not 95+% of the money.

They'll have 5 million actually, which should be completely sufficient to pay the salary of a ~20 people development team + equippment for 2-3 years. Also, PvP is very player driven and really only needs a space to take place in and some rules, whereas PvE needs huge zones for the entire level range, NPC's, quests/storylines, monsters etc.. I'm confident that they'll make it.

 

Well it sounds like they are struggling to get to $2M much less $5M, but fine, lets say they get $5M. $5M would NOT pay for a 20 professional business for 2-3 years. Its not just salaries and some computers, its also workspace and benefits and utilities and PR and everything else that goes into a business that has to create and market a product.

 I hope it happens, because hey more MMORPGs is always better than less, but I guess I am pretty dubious. And overall, I think the very idea that ESO needs to worry about CU is borderline ludicrous...and after all that is the premise of the thread.

My other main thought is that CU sounds very much like a glorified battleground, and I really wonder how - without the other trappings found in most MMORPGs - will it really have any long-lasting appeal.

Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC

  muffins89

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 1255

4/16/13 10:36:35 PM#99
beta in '2015' tells me CU has no bearing on TESO.  (at least not for a couple years)

I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  User Deleted
4/16/13 11:49:44 PM#100

This thread cracks me up.

My guess is that CU is going to have a fate similar to WAR.  Huge hype, all the "hardcore" pvpers who wont touch a game with pvp risk will flock to it.  It will have a decent launch, people will start to complain about everything and it will end up a niche game.

This isnt the 90's  and i firmly believe that if DAOC was released today with modern graphics and combat it would flop.  Completely different community than back during the first gen mmorpgs.  People were able to have fun with what was given to them back then.  Now people cant have fun unless a laundry list of features are in the game and all executed exactly how they envisioned...which is impossible to satisfy past the honeymoon period.

 

In all honesty i think this game will be considerd a failure by this community, as every mmorpg has been...even the most successful ones.  Same fate awaits UC. 

Question i have for games like ESO is...how is Bethesda going to handle the inevitable hatred of the game, how will they handle the game once the launch hype is over.  Do they stick with it and make a a fantasic game over time with a smaller crowd, do they give up, do they change the games fundamentals to catch the newest flavor of the month so to speak?

New mmorpg company, and we all watched another beloved studio make a mmorpg that was considerd a flop (granted all but endgame was good in that game and of high quality)

Also they can expect tons of hate for even trying to make money off the game since people for some reason expect people to work for free to entertain them.

 

I certainly wouldnt want to be in the mmo or mmorpg business these days. And for some reason i see them abandoning the game after a while and focusing on what they do well, singleplayer RPG games.  Call it a gut feeling. 

 

Despite all this ill be there at launch unless its a F2P, in which ill wait and see if i even want to bother with it.

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