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General Discussion  » Now that Camelot Unchained is coming - how will this game really fare?

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104 posts found
  Eir_S

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4670

GW2 socialist.

4/09/13 9:38:14 PM#61
Originally posted by MyTabbycat

Didn't the guy making CU say that if it got funded he could make it within six months to a year?

That sort of tells me it's not going to be much of a game.

When a big company rushes a game, it's sinister.  When a small one does it, it's genius.  Get it straight!

  Thorkune

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/28/06
Posts: 1779

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4/09/13 9:40:12 PM#62
I have zero interest in CU, so ESO is still at the top of my anticipation list.
  azzamasin

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Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2626

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

4/09/13 11:57:12 PM#63
Originally posted by Margulis
The hardcore fans of the series aren't happy, for the most part, because of the big focus on PvP with the RvR end game component, along with a few other game mechanics of course.  However, many fans of DAoC are really looking forward to it becuase of these same reasons.  But with Camelot Unchained coming and being even more of a pseudo sequel to DAoC than this game wouldn't RvR fans go to that game more than this one?  Sure some fans of the Elder Scrolls series who also like that form of content may stick around, but I think Camelot Unchained is likely going to steal a huge chunck of people that the devs were hoping to capture by making the endgame RvR focused.  Then you have the large crowd of unhappy PvE focused fans who either will never play or play some but still be a bit bitter about what could of been with an Elder Scrolls mmo.  So it will be interesting to see how things all pan out in the end.

ESO is IMO the spiritual successor to DAoC because it offers everything DaoC does.  CU is nothing more then a persistent fantasy based Planetside 2.  CU will be lucky to garner 50k subs and ESO will most likely top 3+ million easily.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Acidon

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Joined: 9/09/05
Posts: 677

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4/10/13 12:01:47 AM#64

IMHO, ESO is still the spiritual successor to DAoC. 

Think about it, CU is going to be a small fraction of what ESO brings to the table.

CU is nowhere on my radar due to the lack of PvE, which I enjoy immensely in my MMOs.  No PvE = No Play for me.

 

EDIT:  This is from a die-hard DAoC player back in the day.  It was one of the two most enjoyable MMORPGs I have experienced.  To add to that, I didn't mind the direction that came with ToA either.

 

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  Eol-

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Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 272

4/10/13 12:43:04 PM#65

People forget that a lot of people played DAoC mainly for the PvE. In fact it was when those players started leaving that DAoC subs fell, after Shrouded Isles and when ToA radically changed the game. It was only when the game declined that it was mainly a PvP game because the main players that stuck with it were the hard core PvPers. It can even be argued how much of a RvR game it has been for years, when much of the PvP activity became 8 v 8 not mainly large scale RvR like in the earlier days.

 

Oh and BTW, CU affects ESO much the same way a gnat affects an elephant, ie, barely at all. CU on the other hand will be massively affected by ESO, to the extent CU is even a realistic possibility which I doubt. What dumbass will put millions into CU with ESO just around the corner? The only real hope IMO for CU is for ESO to massively fail, and even then it will take a long time, and frankly I think thats pretty unrealistic.

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  Havekk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/14/08
Posts: 1351

4/10/13 12:47:55 PM#66
Originally posted by Margulis
The hardcore fans of the series aren't happy, for the most part, because of the big focus on PvP with the RvR end game component, along with a few other game mechanics of course.  However, many fans of DAoC are really looking forward to it becuase of these same reasons.  But with Camelot Unchained coming and being even more of a pseudo sequel to DAoC than this game wouldn't RvR fans go to that game more than this one?  Sure some fans of the Elder Scrolls series who also like that form of content may stick around, but I think Camelot Unchained is likely going to steal a huge chunck of people that the devs were hoping to capture by making the endgame RvR focused.  Then you have the large crowd of unhappy PvE focused fans who either will never play or play some but still be a bit bitter about what could of been with an Elder Scrolls mmo.  So it will be interesting to see how things all pan out in the end.

CU beta is coming in what? 2015? If it stays on schedule after being funded? It still has about a million bucks to go, and although i believe it will hit it's mark... This game won't come out until 2016. TESO will come out this year, perhaps early 2014. Either way, it has a 2 year head start. 

 

I don't think CU really matters right now. At all. About anything. 

 

 

  Havekk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/14/08
Posts: 1351

4/10/13 12:52:33 PM#67
Originally posted by Xobdnas

 


Originally posted by dinams
Let me tell what will happen

 

 

TESO launches, people play it, get to the end-game in 2 weeks and come to mmorpg.com saying how the game sucks and disappoints

Archeage launches on the west, people play it, get very deep on the game and then come to mmorpg.com saying how the game sucks and disappoints

Blizzard announces Titan, hype goes off the fucking charts, every other mmo then looks like a time waster until titan launchs

Camelot Unchained releases, old-school fans gets disappointed for the game not being exactly DAoC with better graphics and not even remotely paying its hype off, more fresh players get disappointed by indie quality gameplay and everyone will have their eyes on the new shiny mmos coming out

World of Darkness launches, it replaces EvE as the sandbox king

Titan laucnhes, it replaces WoW as the mmo king

 

And then you have CCP and Blizzard ruling the mmo market

Just as today


 

nicely done sir

That is about as accurate a post as I've ever seen. QFT

  CthulhuPuffs

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 379

Will consume your soul, yet stay crunchy in milk

4/10/13 12:58:04 PM#68
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Margulis
The hardcore fans of the series aren't happy, for the most part, because of the big focus on PvP with the RvR end game component, along with a few other game mechanics of course.  However, many fans of DAoC are really looking forward to it becuase of these same reasons.  But with Camelot Unchained coming and being even more of a pseudo sequel to DAoC than this game wouldn't RvR fans go to that game more than this one?  Sure some fans of the Elder Scrolls series who also like that form of content may stick around, but I think Camelot Unchained is likely going to steal a huge chunck of people that the devs were hoping to capture by making the endgame RvR focused.  Then you have the large crowd of unhappy PvE focused fans who either will never play or play some but still be a bit bitter about what could of been with an Elder Scrolls mmo.  So it will be interesting to see how things all pan out in the end.

ESO is IMO the spiritual successor to DAoC because it offers everything DaoC does.  CU is nothing more then a persistent fantasy based Planetside 2.  CU will be lucky to garner 50k subs and ESO will most likely top 3+ million easily.

This is the core problem of ESO. Instead of becoming the FIRST Elder Scrolls MMORPG, it is only just the remake of DAOC.

This is why it will fail

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  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2608

110100100

4/10/13 1:26:35 PM#69


Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs

Originally posted by azzamasin

Originally posted by Margulis The hardcore fans of the series aren't happy, for the most part, because of the big focus on PvP with the RvR end game component, along with a few other game mechanics of course.  However, many fans of DAoC are really looking forward to it becuase of these same reasons.  But with Camelot Unchained coming and being even more of a pseudo sequel to DAoC than this game wouldn't RvR fans go to that game more than this one?  Sure some fans of the Elder Scrolls series who also like that form of content may stick around, but I think Camelot Unchained is likely going to steal a huge chunck of people that the devs were hoping to capture by making the endgame RvR focused.  Then you have the large crowd of unhappy PvE focused fans who either will never play or play some but still be a bit bitter about what could of been with an Elder Scrolls mmo.  So it will be interesting to see how things all pan out in the end.
ESO is IMO the spiritual successor to DAoC because it offers everything DaoC does.  CU is nothing more then a persistent fantasy based Planetside 2.  CU will be lucky to garner 50k subs and ESO will most likely top 3+ million easily.
This is the core problem of ESO. Instead of becoming the FIRST Elder Scrolls MMORPG, it is only just the remake of DAOC.

This is why it will fail


because it offers rvr style pvp? so if it didn't offer optional rvr pvp it would be a success? or do you think the combat and game mechanics resembles daoc as well?

having the option to go to cyrodiil and pvp is not what will make this game "fail"

faction lock is the only feature of this game adopted from daoc that has an impact on this game failing and i honestly don't think it will have a big impact at all in that regard.


  will75

Novice Member

Joined: 10/16/06
Posts: 265

4/10/13 1:29:17 PM#70

ESO will be dead by the time CU comes out, if it even does.So what does it matter? Where's rift now? Where's Aion now? Where's AOC now? Where's SWTOR now? Where's GW2 now? (ok... but you gotta admit, the WvW is horrible implemented). Really? I can carry more supplies because i'm rank 2? lol?

 

 

Maybe i'm ignorant. but is ESO not a PVE game first? Then PvP? Will the best gear in PVP be equal to pve gear? Will there be PVP progression? Ranks  etc? 

 

PVE games who do pvp as an afterthought are never good  ... see wow

  Tuktz

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 310

4/10/13 3:16:16 PM#71
Originally posted by Margulis
The hardcore fans of the series aren't happy, for the most part, because of the big focus on PvP with the RvR end game component, along with a few other game mechanics of course.  However, many fans of DAoC are really looking forward to it becuase of these same reasons.  But with Camelot Unchained coming and being even more of a pseudo sequel to DAoC than this game wouldn't RvR fans go to that game more than this one?  Sure some fans of the Elder Scrolls series who also like that form of content may stick around, but I think Camelot Unchained is likely going to steal a huge chunck of people that the devs were hoping to capture by making the endgame RvR focused.  Then you have the large crowd of unhappy PvE focused fans who either will never play or play some but still be a bit bitter about what could of been with an Elder Scrolls mmo.  So it will be interesting to see how things all pan out in the end.

CU is a compeltely different game, and 2-3 years away, whereas TESO is <1 year.

 

I'm probably going to play TESO until CU, (thats like 2-3 years), and then maybe both after that, depending...

 

CU is a lot more sandboxy in terms of where you can build structures/keeps/forts/towers/towns/houses/guildhouses/inns, and a lot more oldschool in a lot of the social ineraction stuff.

 

TESO sounds a lot more modern with a lot of that kind of stuff.

 

The styles are going to be very different. I for one, like both though.

 

I'll still want some PVE in my life, and CU isn't going to have much in the way of that (except for grinding mobs for crafting mats).

 

I see TESO as more competing with wow, GW2, SWTOR, RIFT, and the like.

CU isn't a direct competitor to any of those. It's a much smaller niche that want a nearly 100% RVR game.

 

Besides, CU doesn't need massive subs to succeed, because of the lack of PVE. PVE content is devoured nearly faster than most company's can make it. They will probably be more profitable with 50k subs than TESO is with 250k LOL.

 

I want to support TESO and CU both, because competition is good, and I like to keep my options open.

I know a lot of old DAOC players are excited about TESO for the RVR/AVA, well what if it's not all it's cracked up to be, like WVW in GW2. Or it may be awesome. Who knows.

If you support both, you can make a better choice in 2-3 years. But if I'm still enjoying the PVE in TESO when CU is out, I'll probably just play both for different "fixes".

 

 


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  azzamasin

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Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2626

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

4/10/13 11:03:21 PM#72
Originally posted by baphamet

 


Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs

Originally posted by azzamasin

Originally posted by Margulis The hardcore fans of the series aren't happy, for the most part, because of the big focus on PvP with the RvR end game component, along with a few other game mechanics of course.  However, many fans of DAoC are really looking forward to it becuase of these same reasons.  But with Camelot Unchained coming and being even more of a pseudo sequel to DAoC than this game wouldn't RvR fans go to that game more than this one?  Sure some fans of the Elder Scrolls series who also like that form of content may stick around, but I think Camelot Unchained is likely going to steal a huge chunck of people that the devs were hoping to capture by making the endgame RvR focused.  Then you have the large crowd of unhappy PvE focused fans who either will never play or play some but still be a bit bitter about what could of been with an Elder Scrolls mmo.  So it will be interesting to see how things all pan out in the end.
ESO is IMO the spiritual successor to DAoC because it offers everything DaoC does.  CU is nothing more then a persistent fantasy based Planetside 2.  CU will be lucky to garner 50k subs and ESO will most likely top 3+ million easily.
This is the core problem of ESO. Instead of becoming the FIRST Elder Scrolls MMORPG, it is only just the remake of DAOC.

 

This is why it will fail


 

because it offers rvr style pvp? so if it didn't offer optional rvr pvp it would be a success? or do you think the combat and game mechanics resembles daoc as well?

having the option to go to cyrodiil and pvp is not what will make this game "fail"

faction lock is the only feature of this game adopted from daoc that has an impact on this game failing and i honestly don't think it will have a big impact at all in that regard.

 

 

 

 

Gotta give props to those who continue to make these bold assumptions that addition by subtraction makes a great game.

 

I'll never be able to fathom why adding something ontop of a core is considered bad.  Its like Hey here try some Vanilla Icecream and they like wow this stuff is great, then when someone puts chocolate syrup on top of that it automatically becomes bad.  1+1 > 1.  Now if you dont like chocolate thats fine then you can scrape it off and enjoy the richness of vanilla again.  Same here is this game, you dont klike ESO because it contains RvR......well for F**K's SAKE DONT PLAY THE G*D D***ED RvR and stick to the PvE side of the game which is going to be full on Elder Scrolls experience.  Adding something on top of that doesnt make it a bad game!

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  azzamasin

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Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2626

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

4/10/13 11:10:48 PM#73
Originally posted by will75

ESO will be dead by the time CU comes out, if it even does.So what does it matter? Where's rift now? Where's Aion now? Where's AOC now? Where's SWTOR now? Where's GW2 now? (ok... but you gotta admit, the WvW is horrible implemented). Really? I can carry more supplies because i'm rank 2? lol?

 

 

Maybe i'm ignorant. but is ESO not a PVE game first? Then PvP? Will the best gear in PVP be equal to pve gear? Will there be PVP progression? Ranks  etc? 

 

PVE games who do pvp as an afterthought are never good  ... see wow

Its ok to be ignorant because you are, but its not ok to be ignorant and base assuptions and proclaim something something as fact.  I.e. You saying ESO will be Dead without even knowing the specifics of the game displays great hubris.  next time leave the prognostication to people who at least know about the game.

 

ESO is not a PvE or a PvP game.  It is a game which is offereing many systems to intice many sorts of players.  Might want to watch the mmorpg.com Pax East Developer roundtable to listen to Matt Firor talk about what ESO is and isn't.

 

Ohh and there is no PvP gear.....theres just gear.  So chalk another round of misinformation up on your naive part.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2608

110100100

4/10/13 11:24:51 PM#74


Originally posted by azzamasin

Originally posted by baphamet  

Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs

Originally posted by azzamasin

Originally posted by Margulis The hardcore fans of the series aren't happy, for the most part, because of the big focus on PvP with the RvR end game component, along with a few other game mechanics of course.  However, many fans of DAoC are really looking forward to it becuase of these same reasons.  But with Camelot Unchained coming and being even more of a pseudo sequel to DAoC than this game wouldn't RvR fans go to that game more than this one?  Sure some fans of the Elder Scrolls series who also like that form of content may stick around, but I think Camelot Unchained is likely going to steal a huge chunck of people that the devs were hoping to capture by making the endgame RvR focused.  Then you have the large crowd of unhappy PvE focused fans who either will never play or play some but still be a bit bitter about what could of been with an Elder Scrolls mmo.  So it will be interesting to see how things all pan out in the end.
ESO is IMO the spiritual successor to DAoC because it offers everything DaoC does.  CU is nothing more then a persistent fantasy based Planetside 2.  CU will be lucky to garner 50k subs and ESO will most likely top 3+ million easily.
This is the core problem of ESO. Instead of becoming the FIRST Elder Scrolls MMORPG, it is only just the remake of DAOC.   This is why it will fail
  because it offers rvr style pvp? so if it didn't offer optional rvr pvp it would be a success? or do you think the combat and game mechanics resembles daoc as well? having the option to go to cyrodiil and pvp is not what will make this game "fail" faction lock is the only feature of this game adopted from daoc that has an impact on this game failing and i honestly don't think it will have a big impact at all in that regard.        
Gotta give props to those who continue to make these bold assumptions that addition by subtraction makes a great game.

 

I'll never be able to fathom why adding something ontop of a core is considered bad.  Its like Hey here try some Vanilla Icecream and they like wow this stuff is great, then when someone puts chocolate syrup on top of that it automatically becomes bad.  1+1 > 1.  Now if you dont like chocolate thats fine then you can scrape it off and enjoy the richness of vanilla again.  Same here is this game, you dont klike ESO because it contains RvR......well for F**K's SAKE DONT PLAY THE G*D D***ED RvR and stick to the PvE side of the game which is going to be full on Elder Scrolls experience.  Adding something on top of that doesnt make it a bad game!


yeah, many people here seem to think that TESO is a Daoc clone and are spreading misinformation.

all the solid confirmed information that is out there from pax confirms its nothing like Daoc other than the optional pvp and faction lock.


but yet so many insist its more like Daoc than anything, i mean really?

mmorpg.com forums are funny like that sometimes...


  Moraxo

Novice Member

Joined: 4/15/13
Posts: 17

4/15/13 2:23:36 PM#75
Originally posted by Eol-

CU on the other hand will be massively affected by ESO, to the extent CU is even a realistic possibility which I doubt. What dumbass will put millions into CU with ESO just around the corner? The only real hope IMO for CU is for ESO to massively fail, and even then it will take a long time, and frankly I think thats pretty unrealistic.

I highly doubt ESO will affect CU much. My opinion about ESO aside, they have a vastly different target audience.

CU is a niche game, lacking a lot of features that make modern MMORPG's popular, and focusing mostly on the nostalgic, tired-of-WoW-clones, RvR-loving audience. ESO on the other hand is an "AAA" title, trying to attract as many players as possible by offering lots and lots of casual-friendly content to make up for the high development costs.

That's exactly what the CU crowd is trying to avoid, and while some do want both, they might not want it in the same game. If CU funds and ESO does well, CU will keep its dedicated playerbase. If CU funds and ESO fails, maybe a couple 100 players will hop over but not much will change either.

  Eol-

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 272

4/15/13 5:04:02 PM#76
Originally posted by Moraxo
Originally posted by Eol-

CU on the other hand will be massively affected by ESO, to the extent CU is even a realistic possibility which I doubt. What dumbass will put millions into CU with ESO just around the corner? The only real hope IMO for CU is for ESO to massively fail, and even then it will take a long time, and frankly I think thats pretty unrealistic.

I highly doubt ESO will affect CU much. My opinion about ESO aside, they have a vastly different target audience.

CU is a niche game, lacking a lot of features that make modern MMORPG's popular, and focusing mostly on the nostalgic, tired-of-WoW-clones, RvR-loving audience. ESO on the other hand is an "AAA" title, trying to attract as many players as possible by offering lots and lots of casual-friendly content to make up for the high development costs.

That's exactly what the CU crowd is trying to avoid, and while some do want both, they might not want it in the same game. If CU funds and ESO does well, CU will keep its dedicated playerbase. If CU funds and ESO fails, maybe a couple 100 players will hop over but not much will change either.

I find it hard to believe that people who liked DAoC wont give ESO a try. And if the game is a success, a lot of them might like it and stay. Two games with endgame RvR wouldnt have overlapping player bases? Really??

Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC

  Eol-

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 272

4/15/13 5:07:41 PM#77
Originally posted by will75

ESO will be dead by the time CU comes out, if it even does.So what does it matter? Where's rift now? Where's Aion now? Where's AOC now? Where's SWTOR now? Where's GW2 now? (ok... but you gotta admit, the WvW is horrible implemented). Really? I can carry more supplies because i'm rank 2? lol?

 

 

Maybe i'm ignorant. but is ESO not a PVE game first? Then PvP? Will the best gear in PVP be equal to pve gear? Will there be PVP progression? Ranks  etc? 

 

PVE games who do pvp as an afterthought are never good  ... see wow

I dont understand how a game makes RvR the primary endgame, and yet you say PvP is an 'afterthought"??? Wow's endgame isnt primarily RvR oriented, whereas ESO's seems to be. Thats a pretty big different. just because ESO has PvE also doesnt mean PvP is an afterthought, either. I mean, by that crazy definition, DAoC did RvR as an 'afterthought' because it too had PvE levelling and content.

Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC

  Arbroath

Novice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 185

4/15/13 10:38:11 PM#78
I've already backed CU, but I'm also really looking forward to TESO. I'm really hoping TESO keeps me engaged untill CU launches. If it funds of course. I wish both of them success.

It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom — for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself. ~Declaration of Arbroath

  Moraxo

Novice Member

Joined: 4/15/13
Posts: 17

4/16/13 11:54:24 AM#79
Originally posted by Eol-
Originally posted by Moraxo
Originally posted by Eol-

CU on the other hand will be massively affected by ESO, to the extent CU is even a realistic possibility which I doubt. What dumbass will put millions into CU with ESO just around the corner? The only real hope IMO for CU is for ESO to massively fail, and even then it will take a long time, and frankly I think thats pretty unrealistic.

I highly doubt ESO will affect CU much. My opinion about ESO aside, they have a vastly different target audience.

CU is a niche game, lacking a lot of features that make modern MMORPG's popular, and focusing mostly on the nostalgic, tired-of-WoW-clones, RvR-loving audience. ESO on the other hand is an "AAA" title, trying to attract as many players as possible by offering lots and lots of casual-friendly content to make up for the high development costs.

That's exactly what the CU crowd is trying to avoid, and while some do want both, they might not want it in the same game. If CU funds and ESO does well, CU will keep its dedicated playerbase. If CU funds and ESO fails, maybe a couple 100 players will hop over but not much will change either.

I find it hard to believe that people who liked DAoC wont give ESO a try. And if the game is a success, a lot of them might like it and stay. Two games with endgame RvR wouldnt have overlapping player bases? Really??

Not everyone backing CU is a DAoC Vet (even though they're probably the majority), and not everyone who liked DAoC likes where CU is headed. The audiences are splitting up there already.

Obviously i can only speak for myself, and the rest is wild guessing/judging by the people i know, but while they do overlap, i think it's really not a big part. For starters, i highly doubt ESO's primary endgame goal is PvP, as there are simply too many non-PvP players that they need to keep on board. Secondly, to quote Mark Jacobs, in CU "RvR isn’t the end game, it’s the only game!". A lot of palyers won't like sitting through yet another big-studio-release stream of PvE content that they need to complete in order to level/skill up, or to grind gear until they reach the glorious endgame if there's a game that delivers intriguing RvR gameplay from day one.

Even if ESO turns out well (and i hope it does), i don't see it's endgame RvR as major threat to the CU concept. A pure RvR game has just so many more opportunities that you can't pull off in an allround crowdpleaser game. I might play both and have a great, unique experience with each of them. But ESO couldn't replace CU's RvR (provided it gets funded and turns out as planned, ofcourse), and CU couldn't come close to delivering the ammount of content ESO does.

 

  Punk999

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/26/04
Posts: 878

4/16/13 11:58:14 AM#80
CU would be lucky if it even funded at this point.

"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
^MMORPG.com

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