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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Kickstarter / CU no funding (combined) topic

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107 posts found
  Laughing-man

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/09
Posts: 3395

I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes.

4/06/13 2:16:04 AM#41
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

 

I refuse to put money down on words, visions, theories or a cool graphic image. I don't care if you are lord British, Brad Mcquaid or Steven Spielberg. if the developer is serious about a game, he will find the proper funding for it, instead of the smoke and mirrors os kickstarter. With that said, almost every pc kickstarter program is for technology that is 4 to 5 years behind consoles. Simply unacceptable.

 

/off soap box

If someone is serious then they will go to big wig corporate sponsors and have their dreams trimmed down to what THOSE out of touch fat cats THINK will sell, rather than the vision they wanted to make they wind up making total crap.

Yeah, I like the idea behind kick starter, I want the artists to get to make the game they want to make.

  Dren_Utogi

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1479

 
OP  4/06/13 2:16:41 AM#42

Lets look at the "platform" which sales are already dwindled by big publishers.....

 

over half a billion will go into to kickstarter in the next 2 years , that cuts into the total market share of "published" games by about 3/5'ths total pc gaming market. With big puiblishers see that they lost market shares in the "platform" do to kickstarter, they will simply refuse to publish for the platform.

 

So when all of your favorite single player games like Mass Effect , BF 4 and ect are only on the console cause of the dent that kickstarter created, will the gamer then cry on the forums ?

 

Also with the lose of market cap , what happens when the gamers only get 25million worth of game back for ever half a billion invested ?

 

So much in the industry that screams , putting games on kS is bad for everyone. I think Art as in the orginal purpose of the KS is a great idea , Movies , music ect, but the game industry before KS was a wreck, with KS it is only going to get worse imho. EA became what is now because of the player, what makes KS any different.

reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  Dren_Utogi

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1479

 
OP  4/06/13 2:17:44 AM#43
Originally posted by Laughing-man
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

 

I refuse to put money down on words, visions, theories or a cool graphic image. I don't care if you are lord British, Brad Mcquaid or Steven Spielberg. if the developer is serious about a game, he will find the proper funding for it, instead of the smoke and mirrors os kickstarter. With that said, almost every pc kickstarter program is for technology that is 4 to 5 years behind consoles. Simply unacceptable.

 

/off soap box

If someone is serious then they will go to big wig corporate sponsors and have their dreams trimmed down to what THOSE out of touch fat cats THINK will sell, rather than the vision they wanted to make they wind up making total crap.

Yeah, I like the idea behind kick starter, I want the artists to get to make the game they want to make.

what is the guarantee the vision will ever be created after it has reach funding goal ?

 

And the lack of accountability.

reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  GreenHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 1342

4/06/13 2:28:17 AM#44

Lets be honest, if a small developer makes a game that does really well some things will certainly happen. The industry will take notice that a niche game can be made that makes money and then the big AAA corporations will buy those small studios and own the games. It happens all of the time. If you dont think this guy or any of them would sell you are naive.

Im not a corporate hater though. I think some of these games with much larger budgets could be really amazing. The AAA studios just need proof that these type of games can make money. KS might be the way that happens.

  Ogrelin

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 640

MMORPG-Player - Since 1997!
GM of Svea Ulvar

4/06/13 2:30:23 AM#45


Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Dren_Utogi   I refuse to put money down on words, visions, theories or a cool graphic image. I don't care if you are lord British, Brad Mcquaid or Steven Spielberg. if the developer is serious about a game, he will find the proper funding for it, instead of the smoke and mirrors os kickstarter. With that said, almost every pc kickstarter program is for technology that is 4 to 5 years behind consoles. Simply unacceptable.   /off soap box
If someone is serious then they will go to big wig corporate sponsors and have their dreams trimmed down to what THOSE out of touch fat cats THINK will sell, rather than the vision they wanted to make they wind up making total crap. Yeah, I like the idea behind kick starter, I want the artists to get to make the game they want to make.
what is the guarantee the vision will ever be created after it has reach funding goal ?

 

And the lack of accountability.


http://www.kickstarter.com/hello?ref=nav

  Priscius

Novice Member

Joined: 12/19/08
Posts: 2

4/06/13 2:33:38 AM#46

I'm still not sure how I feel about Kickstarter projects yet but at this point when someone like Chris Roberts says that they're going to deliver on a project, I feel like I have more faith in them to do it than I do for many of the publishers out there right now.

 

There's a lot of franchise fatigue across the board right now and hopefully some of these crowdfunded projects will yield good results. Anything that isn't more of what we're getting right now as consumers seems like it should be a good thing, right?

  Ogrelin

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 640

MMORPG-Player - Since 1997!
GM of Svea Ulvar

4/06/13 2:34:48 AM#47

If the creators of a project would just leave with the money I guess it would be a crimnial act.

These are the guiidelines for starting a KS.

http://www.kickstarter.com/help/guidelines

  Dren_Utogi

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1479

 
OP  4/06/13 2:56:58 AM#48
Originally posted by Ogrelin

If the creators of a project would just leave with the money I guess it would be a crimnial act.

These are the guiidelines for starting a KS.

http://www.kickstarter.com/help/guidelines

Where is the legally binding part of your link. I saw nothing but "guidlines" which aren't bound by law. EULA aren't bound by law. Really caliberated my the topic to make me ask more questions on how someone is accountable to the donaters.  The answer is, they aren't, it is just good will towards man that htese developers are bound by.

 

reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  mmoski

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/27/08
Posts: 269

4/06/13 2:57:21 AM#49

It won't be the end of PC gaming, the large companies will still produce AAA games and as consoles get ever more closer to PC hardware, the upgrades in fidelity of PC versions will be easier to apply, since the context of creation will be similar, but the resources of a PC will allow for better graphics at a minimum. This hasn't been achieved with console ports to PC in the current generation of consoles due to the differences in development systems. Additionally at some point you won't even be able to tell the difference between PC and console as the uncanny valley is reached.

Kickstarter is an amazing system for developers and gamers, it will only make PC gaming stronger, yeah there are possible problems, people may lose trust in the system due to failed projects, but I hope people in general will be more sceptical of what they back. It's also in the best interest of the developers to finish projects, as their reputation and future projects rely on this, no longer do you have the blurred relationship between the publisher and the developer (simcitys online/offline play contradiction, as an recent example).

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

4/06/13 3:10:30 AM#50
[mod edit]

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  mmoski

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/27/08
Posts: 269

4/06/13 3:21:12 AM#51
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi
Originally posted by mmoski

It won't be the end of PC gaming, the large companies will still produce AAA games and as consoles get ever more closer to PC hardware, the upgrades in fidelity of PC versions will be easier to apply, since the context of creation will be similar, but the resources of a PC will allow for better graphics at a minimum. This hasn't been achieved with console ports to PC in the current generation of consoles due to the differences in development systems. Additionally at some point you won't even be able to tell the difference between PC and console as the uncanny valley is reached.

Kickstarter is an amazing system for developers and gamers, it will only make PC gaming stronger, yeah there are possible problems where people may lose trust in the system, but I hope people in general will be more sceptical of what they back. It's also in the best interest of the developers to finish projects, as their reputation and future projects rely on this, no longer do you have the blurred relationship between the backer and the developer (simcitys online play contradiction, as an recent example).

[mod edit]

I guess you didn't understand, maybe this..

They will push the compile button in the engine for the game they have built with the highest technology level on a PC and it will compile to the highest quality for a console(settings and restrictions), they can then push the compile button again for the PC version.

  dgarbini

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/05
Posts: 186

4/06/13 3:34:12 AM#52

I dislike kickstarter for many reasons.  I feel it is such a sucker bait, and personally I feel like most independent companies are actually major corperations in disguise.  And I could go on and on.  But in all reality aside from some advise or insights, it doesn't really matter what I think.  People will do what they want to do ultimately.

 

Anyways important to understand that PC gamers who fund kickstarters are a very very small percentage of the market.  I would venture to guess most have never or will never even hear about it.

 

The PC will continue to be a platform far beyond other platforms simply because the PC's are there.  Let me explain.  I own a PC for a variety of reasons, communications, work, video, games, etc, etc.  If gaming dried up for a few years or even 10 years I would still own a PC, its a very useful tool to me, and I feel that many other people feel that way.  Just by virtue of that, that there are so many PC's in the world for whatever reason, the platform will continue to be used for the sales of games.  Its a large access point that will most likely not go anywhere anytime soon.

 

My personal opinion would be that kickstarter will have very little effect on the gaming market, be it PC or MMO or whatever.  Success or failure will largely only effect small niche audiances in the way of happiness or anger.  So OP dont worry about it to much.

  Teh_Axi

Novice Member

Joined: 9/21/08
Posts: 405

4/06/13 3:36:25 AM#53
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

over half a billion will go into to kickstarter in the next 2 years , that cuts into the total market share of "published" games by about 3/5'ths total pc gaming market. With big puiblishers see that they lost market shares in the "platform" do to kickstarter, they will simply refuse to publish for the platform.

What a bunch of idiotic scaremongering, you sound worse than those idiots that said the last generation of consoles would kill off PC gaming. 

You don't need to worry, all of you favorite "games" will still be made. The big publishers are already milking people like you for far more than then products they produce are worth, kickstarter isn't going to scare them away from anything.

  Xthos

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2651

4/06/13 11:58:00 AM#54

I see a lot of assumptions, with no backing, kickstarter will not keep companies from making games....The only reason they would stop making a game is if they think they cannot make any money on it...  If kickstarter games are better than big company games, and it makes them stop competing, then the big companies are way more incompetant than anyone thinks they are.

 

 

I see zero chance that kickstarter is going to stop EA, SoE, Blizzard/Activision and others from making games on the PC.

 

 

As I stated earlier, I have not funded anything yet, so it isn't like I am defending my choice.

 

Also, if I were to give someone $5 to $30, it would have zero effect on me buying any other game, and when/if that game came out, and the kickstarter company made a hit, guess what, they may become the next big company that you are worried will be hurt by kickstarter, I see more chance of that, then kickstarter being the death of anything (besides kickstarter).

 

  Brenelael

Guide

Joined: 10/19/06
Posts: 3985

Pointing out the Obvious to the Oblivious since 2006

4/06/13 12:29:49 PM#55
Originally posted by redcapp
One need only take a cursory glance at a list of highest funded PC games to know the OP is pure nonsense.

Yeah, this pretty much says it all. The highest funded game, Star Citizen pretty much blows his whole argument about Kickstarter right out the door. Just the demo Chris Roberts played at GDC would melt a Xbox 360 into a puddle of goo... lol

 

Bren

while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}

  bliss14

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/01/11
Posts: 539

Ahh devil ether.

4/06/13 12:46:21 PM#56
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by BizkitNL
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by redcapp
One need only take a cursory glance at a list of highest funded PC games to know the OP is pure nonsense.

Like which?  I'm genuinely curious.  Also, how many of the top games on the market have been KS games?   I'm not sure there's anything inherently wrong with Kickstarter, but I read that the funding success rate is only about 30%.  What happens to all the money that's donated?  They have to give it back right?

AFAIK: you don't actually pay a dime untill the KS is successfull.

My question is, so what happens after that ,if the product/project never sees completion? Anything can happen from now until 2015 or beyond..

That is the risk.  Do your research on a project before you back it.  You can even contact the creator via kickstarter with any questions you may have.  If the creator is some guy with an idea but no actual know-how that would be something to avoid.  If the creator is someone who has worked in the industry and seems trustworthy then do what you think is in your best interests.

Kickstarter is all about backing an idea, whether they want $200 or $2,000,000.  Some of them are even only doing a kickstarter to ramp up the speed of the project, it would get finished anyway.  I think Pathfinder Online is like that.  The successful kickstarter upped the projected release date by a year and the people that donated get their various tier rewards in return for helping the studio making it.

  Dren_Utogi

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1479

 
OP  4/06/13 12:50:56 PM#57
Originally posted by Brenelael
Originally posted by redcapp
One need only take a cursory glance at a list of highest funded PC games to know the OP is pure nonsense.

Yeah, this pretty much says it all. The highest funded game, Star Citizen pretty much blows his whole argument about Kickstarter right out the door. Just the demo Chris Roberts played at GDC would melt a Xbox 360 into a puddle of goo... lol

 

Bren

I'm glad soomeone understood the post, and knows the difference between an aurgumentive conversation over what some of the pposters actually did which was flame me.

 

I raise concernsq for the the platform I love, and I think it is important to grill every kickstarter campaign that comes along to make sure they are true in their purpose. I do however see a downfull with kicksterstarter if people take advantage of it and prey on jaded gamers.

reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  bliss14

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/01/11
Posts: 539

Ahh devil ether.

4/06/13 1:07:05 PM#58
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi
Originally posted by Brenelael
Originally posted by redcapp
One need only take a cursory glance at a list of highest funded PC games to know the OP is pure nonsense.

Yeah, this pretty much says it all. The highest funded game, Star Citizen pretty much blows his whole argument about Kickstarter right out the door. Just the demo Chris Roberts played at GDC would melt a Xbox 360 into a puddle of goo... lol

 

Bren

I'm glad soomeone understood the post, and knows the difference between an aurgumentive conversation over what some of the pposters actually did which was flame me.

 

I raise concernsq for the the platform I love, and I think it is important to grill every kickstarter campaign that comes along to make sure they are true in their purpose. I do however see a downfull with kicksterstarter if people take advantage of it and prey on jaded gamers.

All it will take is for a couple of these huge kickstarters that have funded to renege on their promises and the kickstarter movement as it pertains to gaming will take a huge hit and many of your concerns will be laid to rest.

  Brenelael

Guide

Joined: 10/19/06
Posts: 3985

Pointing out the Obvious to the Oblivious since 2006

4/06/13 1:10:08 PM#59
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi
Originally posted by Brenelael
Originally posted by redcapp
One need only take a cursory glance at a list of highest funded PC games to know the OP is pure nonsense.

Yeah, this pretty much says it all. The highest funded game, Star Citizen pretty much blows his whole argument about Kickstarter right out the door. Just the demo Chris Roberts played at GDC would melt a Xbox 360 into a puddle of goo... lol

 

Bren

I'm glad soomeone understood the post, and knows the difference between an aurgumentive conversation over what some of the pposters actually did which was flame me.

 

I raise concernsq for the the platform I love, and I think it is important to grill every kickstarter campaign that comes along to make sure they are true in their purpose. I do however see a downfull with kicksterstarter if people take advantage of it and prey on jaded gamers.

I do think some of the concerns over Kickstarter are more than warrented. I also believe that there will be some fallout to be dealt with when successfully backed Kickstarter projects start failing which definitely will happen. I don't however think it will be the end of PC gaming as we know it like some have predicted. I started PC gaming in Monochrome back in the late 70's and since then I've seen people actually in the industry predict the end of PC gaming more times than I can count. All of them were dead wrong every time.

 

This latest trend of Crowd Funding just gives gamers more options for the future of PC gaming. Will the big companies take notice of some projects that are highly succesful? I'm sure they will but I think you'll find that like the last 35 or so years they will try to cash in on it and not just "pull out" like you are predicting. Will some of these Indy projects get bought up by the big boys? I'm sure they will but this will serve to further enhance PC gaming going into the future as these companies will only buy these games to "Cash in" and not to destroy.

 

Kickstarter is showing the industry that there is interest in some of these thought to be long dead genres. If anything I think you'll see more imatation from the big companies when some projects are successful. Look at Star Citizen for example. If the game releases and is highly successful (Not a sure thing granted) I personally think the reaction from EA will be another Wing Commander game and not "We better get out of PC gaming... Chris Roberts is getting all of our profits!". Kickstarter if anything will be the start of a whole new era in PC gaming. Will it have some major bumps along the road to get there? Sure it will but it will get there all the same.

 

Bren

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beat();
}

  TheScavenger

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/05/12
Posts: 700

Those who ask a question, are stupid for 30 seconds. Those who never ask, are stupid for life.

4/06/13 1:16:36 PM#60
kickstarters are really bad for PC gaming. I would rather have more games I can rely on, like from the big AAA companies. Much less chance of being scammed.  

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