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General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » 'The market has spoken very loudly that [F2P] is the model they like'

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365 posts found
  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4919

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

4/03/13 4:24:30 PM#81
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by steelwind

The funniest thing is that it is the definition of insanity "repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results".

That's not the definition of insantiy or even close. That is a bastardized version of a comment made by Albert Einstein.

 I always thought it was a bit silly myself as rarely is anything ever the same.

The actions may be the same but the people may be different, you may be different, attitutudes and culture may be different...

edit - and I think the actual quote was "repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results"

 

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

He was refering to researchers repeating the same experiments the same way and expecting the result to be different.

 

 That doesn't even make sense.

Researchers are supposed to repeat experiements.  It's how results are verified.  They look to see if they are repeatable, or was it a one time shot or some other x-variable that wasn't addressed.  Or even fraud.

Numerous experiments have been found to be falsified, wrong or missing some key element that wasn't addressed because others tried to repeat the experiment. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Karelia

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/12
Posts: 688

4/03/13 4:28:19 PM#82
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Originally posted by Manolios

 

i preffer quality than quantiy when it comes to content.

btw you know what wow (and other sub games) gives you that gw2 (or other b2p or f2p) dont? stable community. not good or bad, but stable. i m playing wow and i m in a guild that almost every day i see and chat with same ppl. almost same happens server wide. in my gw2 and tera guilds, every time i log in i see other ppl. many new joined, many left, many have days to log. i hate that.

i love when i meet ppl i used to play with before some years ago. today i met again 2 kids i played back in BC. it was a nice feeling. i didnt play even a single hour. i just talk with them, just that.

i like f2p, but in games i dont spent much of my time or much effort. if i want to play serious and competitive, i ll go to a sub game. at least me :)

  Content per £ paid has got nothing to do with the quality of person playing, just looks at wow general chat.  I am also in a good guild with lots of friendly people (Eve and GW2)  its all subjective, but whats not subjective is the amount of content - for e.g some would argue that GW2 fractals were not to their taste, or WOW raids, but the question is who gives greatest amount of content per £.

Here is a thought, It is well known that Blizzard reap HUGE profits from your £9 a month - i.e not converting to content, wouldnt it be great if they were far less greedy and the Sub came down to say £5 to reflect the amount ot content they provided and the age of the game?  Its value for money we are trying to quantify, not subjective opinion on type of content.

 

so it doesnt matter what the content is, as it is just MUCH? i dont share this but anyway.

i m also in an eve corp (raiden alliance) but this is not f2p or b2p. its a sub game that you can pay it with in game gold (isk) if you are good to make them :)

the point that i agree is the price of sub, not for wow, but for every mmo. i think 5$ a month in more than enough. anyway you pay the box 50-60$ and other services (char transfer, race/class change, name change etc + shop items like cosmetics, pets, mounts etc). if you add that an expansion comes almost once a year and costs around 35-45$, then i think 5$/month is good enough for them

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3880

4/03/13 4:34:35 PM#83
Originally posted by Manolios
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Originally posted by Manolios

 

i preffer quality than quantiy when it comes to content.

btw you know what wow (and other sub games) gives you that gw2 (or other b2p or f2p) dont? stable community. not good or bad, but stable. i m playing wow and i m in a guild that almost every day i see and chat with same ppl. almost same happens server wide. in my gw2 and tera guilds, every time i log in i see other ppl. many new joined, many left, many have days to log. i hate that.

i love when i meet ppl i used to play with before some years ago. today i met again 2 kids i played back in BC. it was a nice feeling. i didnt play even a single hour. i just talk with them, just that.

i like f2p, but in games i dont spent much of my time or much effort. if i want to play serious and competitive, i ll go to a sub game. at least me :)

  Content per £ paid has got nothing to do with the quality of person playing, just looks at wow general chat.  I am also in a good guild with lots of friendly people (Eve and GW2)  its all subjective, but whats not subjective is the amount of content - for e.g some would argue that GW2 fractals were not to their taste, or WOW raids, but the question is who gives greatest amount of content per £.

Here is a thought, It is well known that Blizzard reap HUGE profits from your £9 a month - i.e not converting to content, wouldnt it be great if they were far less greedy and the Sub came down to say £5 to reflect the amount ot content they provided and the age of the game?  Its value for money we are trying to quantify, not subjective opinion on type of content.

 

so it doesnt matter what the content is, as it is just MUCH? i dont share this but anyway.

i m also in an eve corp (raiden alliance) but this is not f2p or b2p. its a sub game that you can pay it with in game gold (isk) if you are good to make them :)

the point that i agree is the price of sub, not for wow, but for every mmo. i think 5$ a month in more than enough. anyway you pay the box 50-60$ and other services (char transfer, race/class change, name change etc + shop items like cosmetics, pets, mounts etc). if you add that an expansion comes almost once a year and costs around 35-45$, then i think 5$/month is good enough for them

 yup agreed. Value for money is what its about, wether its sub or cash shop doesnt actually matter, its just a vehicle for getting your money to the owner of the game.  What is bad is 1) a cash shop that is manipulative, i.e pay to win ur must pay to access normal content, or 2) a sub that is excessive.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (10000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (600 runemaster/Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR

  GreenHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 1342

4/03/13 4:36:27 PM#84
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by bcbully

Sub is just fine.

 

B2P is evil. Anything with a 60$ upfront fee is evil. 

 

Free is to intrusive.

 

I agree with all this BC.

Free client, 1-2 week full access trial, then sub (with no cash shop) is my ideal.

This.

  Waterlily

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 2944

4/03/13 4:37:39 PM#85

Companies are so disrespectful to gamers, can't believe EA pretends like gamers who don't want F2P don't exist or are a minority without even having done a study about it.

Screw EA and screw microtransactions.

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1443

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

4/03/13 4:39:18 PM#86

Still not interted in F2P. It equals more hackers, more gold farmers, and terrible community.


A friend of a friend once told me, "if you lie long enough; it becomes truth." This is the case with F2P. Companies bost millions of subscribers when in fact most of those are just checking out the free trial.


It's true what another posted that for crap games, F2P + marketing is the way to go because you will always pull in a few suckers.

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
video game company layoffs are twice the national average.

  Golelorn

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/03
Posts: 1104

4/03/13 4:42:25 PM#87

WoW dwarves any f2p in terms of revenues. 

 

Also, f2p is not sub. Something that SWTOR tries to get out of its players. So, I'm really confused.

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5566

4/03/13 4:43:50 PM#88
Originally posted by Waterlily

Companies are so disrespectful to gamers, can't believe EA pretends like gamers who don't want F2P don't exist or are a minority without even having done a study about it.

Screw EA and screw microtransactions.

That's what was crazy about the article to me. He's being so dismissive of the people that prefer to pay a flat fee for a game. He spins it to make them sound like dinosaurs that are irrelavent because there is a new king in town.

 

It may be true that you can't please all the people all the time, but why enrage some of the people for no reason?

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Waterlily

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 2944

4/03/13 4:47:02 PM#89
Originally posted by Golelorn

WoW dwarves any f2p in terms of revenues. 

 

Also, f2p is not sub. Something that SWTOR tries to get out of its players. So, I'm really confused.

And Rift is successful too.

Hell, the two most successful MMO out right now are probably Rift and WoW (LoL isn't an MMO), and both are P2P.

I guess those 10 million WoW players are just a, and I quote: "Vocal minority"

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

4/03/13 4:48:18 PM#90
Originally posted by Arclan

Still not interted in F2P. It equals more hackers, more gold farmers, and terrible community.


A friend of a friend once told me, "if you lie long enough; it becomes truth." This is the case with F2P. Companies bost millions of subscribers when in fact most of those are just checking out the free trial.


 

Funny that you say f2p has more gold farmers and then say lie long enough and it becomes true. How long have you been saying that ?

most cash shops can do away with gold farmers because the farmers can't make money under that system. Why buy gold from a farmer when you can just buy cash shop items and sell them for gold. But keep saying it and it will become true one day apparently.

  Yalexy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 1045

4/03/13 4:55:42 PM#91

Not sure if this guy in the interview is serious...

It's more like, that people don't have any money to waste on bad games.

  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

4/03/13 5:34:47 PM#92
F2P earns more right now. That's just fact. Whether it appeals to a particular person is another issue and not relevant to the point in hand.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  GreenHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 1342

4/03/13 6:48:21 PM#93
Originally posted by jpnz
F2P earns more right now. That's just fact. Whether it appeals to a particular person is another issue and not relevant to the point in hand.

What information do you have that proves this as a fact? I don't think you can use a game that was not good enough to hold its subscribers as a fact that F2P earns more.

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

4/03/13 7:08:48 PM#94
Originally posted by GreenHell
Originally posted by jpnz
F2P earns more right now. That's just fact. Whether it appeals to a particular person is another issue and not relevant to the point in hand.

What information do you have that proves this as a fact? I don't think you can use a game that was not good enough to hold its subscribers as a fact that F2P earns more.

There was a thread here last month some time that showed the earnings of p2p and f2p games ( well a link to it ). f2p had a slight advantage but considering the number of them and the number of people it's not really something I'd want to say f2p makes more money. It was pretty subjective info imo

 

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2552

World > Quest Progression

4/03/13 8:16:25 PM#95
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by GreenHell
Originally posted by jpnz
F2P earns more right now. That's just fact. Whether it appeals to a particular person is another issue and not relevant to the point in hand.

What information do you have that proves this as a fact? I don't think you can use a game that was not good enough to hold its subscribers as a fact that F2P earns more.

There was a thread here last month some time that showed the earnings of p2p and f2p games ( well a link to it ). f2p had a slight advantage but considering the number of them and the number of people it's not really something I'd want to say f2p makes more money. It was pretty subjective info imo

 

If it's the estimates I'm thinking of it only has data from '09-'12 and estimates up for '13-'15.  In '12 it was 50/50 between $ for P2P and F2P but also showed that x6 the players were playing F2P.  Needing 6 F2P players to equal the revenue of 1 P2P player doesn't seem like a good deal but I'm not signing developer checks so what do I know?

  KaosProphet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 384

4/03/13 9:59:23 PM#96
Originally posted by steelwind

New content?! That is completely laughable! Considering the great majority of the "new content" is for the most part temporary and taken away when the event is over. By definition, this new content is nothing but mini-games and the lack of true perminant content is the true issue.

Most MMO content is obsolete for the core subscriber base within a month or two anyway.  What purpose does keeping it around past that point really have, compared to replacing it with something fresh for both the vets and the late arrivals to enjoy together?

I mean, other than to act as a 'gate' to the current crop of content, and thereby maintain the hierarchy of "vets pissing on neophytes."  Because that's a purpose I'm not really fond of in general.

In regards to funneling, how is magic find working out for you, why does that even exist? Well imho it exists because GW2 loot tables are constantly balanced to keep the cash shop profitable. Any game where I wonder, would I be spending 100's of hours farming this stupid skin if this game was p2p?

You probably would, in most cases.  Even without a cash-shop, endless-farming is the easiest method of extending content-lifespan and keep the subscribers paying their sub-fees. 

  Beatnik59

Elite Member

Joined: 11/23/05
Posts: 2263

"Playing things I shouldn''t be playing since 1977."

4/03/13 10:06:05 PM#97

I see an industry so desperate to get more "blood," that they are willing to go to extremes to get more people hooked on their failing concepts.

Free to play is all about turning casuals into hardcore junkies.  And don't let the PR fool you, this industry--like the casino industry--lives on the hardcore junkies.  It lives on the hardcore roleplayers and immersion junkies, the hardcore levellers and achievers.  They have items in the item store to cater to all these types (powerups, costumes, emotes).  But what they want is for you to lose it, and lose it in splurges.

But in order to root out a hardcore junkie, you have to first give away a "sample" to the curious.  You cater to their subconscious levers.  You make it easy for the ones with low impulse control to spend more than they ought.  And then, when there are no more new junkies to find, you close down, blow the game up, and start up another MMO that works the psychological angles better than the earlier one.

__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken

"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  tupodawg999

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 623

4/04/13 12:39:03 AM#98
The market has spoken very loudly that the subscriber model is the model they like for the number one game (maybe the number one in each of a few genres) and F2P for the rest.
  TehTic

Novice Member

Joined: 2/13/13
Posts: 41

4/04/13 12:45:49 AM#99
From my understanding he is speaking on mobile games.
  Jemcrystal

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1380

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

4/04/13 12:49:40 AM#100

I prefer f2p if it is done right.  Not all of us were born rich.  But many f2p's are more expensive than sub/box because they're getting greedy.  F2p done right is about many options and a large variety showing in a game with a sizable window for those with no money to play and advance along with people who can pay.

 

You anti-f2p peeps should check yourselves.  You make free sound evil.  I bet you use free file storage services and gank pictures, movies, and music from the internet.  Yet you bitch about games having a free avenue for the public - AND THEIRS WAS LEGAL.

 

EA did good with Sims 2 but I don't play anything else they have supported since.  They lost something along the way and everyone is mad at them for it.  Or maybe they never had it.  Maybe Maxis had it and EA just had the greedy compulsion to sell it.

Next time if they ask your name tell them "Your Overlord." There's nothing more satisfying than an Arby's employee repeatedly yelling over the munching masses, "Your Overlord's classic cheddar is up!!!"

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