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General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » 'The market has spoken very loudly that [F2P] is the model they like'

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365 posts found
  ego13

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/04
Posts: 287

Hell is other people. - Sartre

4/03/13 2:09:51 PM#61
Originally posted by steelwind
And at the same time we have the least local player base in history and MMO"s which were originally made for long-term commitments measured in years has turned in to months if not days. People playing MMO's like single players games, consuming content then abandoning them isn't what MMO's are supposed to be about.

The funniest thing is that it is the definition of insanity "repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results". F2P and the crowd that supports it, is one of the driving factors that is ruining what MMO's were supposed to be. I truly believe nothing will change, AAA MMO's with actual deep content as well as long term support via patches and innovation will continue to be P2P and the others, you will get what you pay for....

 

This....so much...this.

Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3266

4/03/13 2:10:37 PM#62
Originally posted by Cirin

"The market" being mostly kids that can't afford games?

 

Most of my peers, 25+ adults, would prefer to pay and sub for a game that has real support, less children, and great content.

Not that anything like that exists yet...but we're waiting.

 

F2P is the dominion of kids and freeloaders and has failed to produce anything better than most console games.  On top of that, take away the sub and the income; the companies have to reduce staff support then you have to deal with that much more drama from the kids that are unpoliced.  No thanks.

wow has one of the foulest communities out there and the average age is close to 30 I believe.  Community and payment model are not related.  Happiness of player base accounts for cummunity behaviour.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  VengeSunsoar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4767

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

4/03/13 2:10:39 PM#63
Originally posted by steelwind
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by steelwind
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by steelwind

The only thing I hear spoken loudly is that the instant gratification/I want it now crowd is too poor and cheap to be able to afford $15/mo and would rather not invest anything into their MMO while expecting the same content and experience that P2P games provide. If you can't cough up $15/mo for hundreds of hours of gameplay imho you have bigger issues. Demanding that all games cater to cheapskates and freeloaders equate to every game activity attempting to funnel it's playerbase to the cash shop. Funneling players to cash shop does nothing to enhance the gaming experience and provides nothing but roadblocks.

Personally, I have a job and can afford to pay for a game I feel is worthy of my money, hell I'd pay $50/mo for a game if it was good enough. Just because you are poor and cheap doesn't mean the entire MMO industry has to change it's model for you, how about fixing the reason you can't afford $15/mo and get back to us?!

A huge percentage of the MMO industry has already changed.

And how is that turning out?

Last I checked, just about every F2P game is struggling to maintain subs. Please don't mention GW2 because that is the prime example of funneling players through the cash-shop limiting just about everything you do so you covert those gems or grab that new skin from the cash shop instead of being able to simple farm for things?

There are more players playing MMORPGs than ever before in the history of MMORPGs.

And at the same time we have the least local player base in history and MMO"s which were originally made for long-term commitments measured in years has turned in to months if not days. People playing MMO's like single players games, consuming content then abandoning them isn't what MMO's are supposed to be about.

The funniest thing is that it is the definition of insanity "repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results". F2P and the crowd that supports it, is one of the driving factors that is ruining what MMO's were supposed to be. I truly believe nothing will change, AAA MMO's with actual deep content as well as long term support via patches and innovation will continue to be P2P and the others, you will get what you pay for....

 Get what we pay for in f2p now means games just as deep as p2p, games with more content released and faster than p2p and great support via patches and innovations.

Sounds like a deal to me.

And people are still playing MMO's for years.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  steelwind

Elite Member

Joined: 8/04/04
Posts: 268

4/03/13 2:11:46 PM#64
Originally posted by Bladestrom

 

 GW2 is successful, profitable, produces new content as fas or faster than any other game. Its free to play, and you are not forced into using the cash shop - in fact as you say you can buy gems with gold or farm or both or nethier, so where exactly is the 'funnelling' ?

Bahhhhhhhhh!

New content?! That is completely laughable! Considering the great majority of the "new content" is for the most part temporary and taken away when the event is over. By definition, this new content is nothing but mini-games and the lack of true perminant content is the true issue.

In regards to funneling, how is magic find working out for you, why does that even exist? Well imho it exists because GW2 loot tables are constantly balanced to keep the cash shop profitable. Any game where I wonder, would I be spending 100's of hours farming this stupid skin if this game was p2p?

Rift at least during it's first two years, privided far more true updates than GW2 ever even dreamed of and the mojority of it was indeed perminant features of the game.

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3266

4/03/13 2:12:28 PM#65
Originally posted by Cirin
Originally posted by steelwind
And at the same time we have the least local player base in history and MMO"s which were originally made for long-term commitments measured in years has turned in to months if not days. People playing MMO's like single players games, consuming content then abandoning them isn't what MMO's are supposed to be about.

The funniest thing is that it is the definition of insanity "repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results". F2P and the crowd that supports it, is one of the driving factors that is ruining what MMO's were supposed to be. I truly believe nothing will change, AAA MMO's with actual deep content as well as long term support via patches and innovation will continue to be P2P and the others, you will get what you pay for....

 

This....so much...this.

Name a mmorg that provides value for money for their SUB in comparison to EVE, GW2, GW1 (examples of good cash shop games)

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5548

4/03/13 2:13:01 PM#66
Originally posted by steelwind
Originally posted by colddog04

There are more players playing MMORPGs than ever before in the history of MMORPGs.

And at the same time we have the least local player base in history and MMO"s which were originally made for long-term commitments measured in years has turned in to months if not days. People playing MMO's like single players games, consuming content then abandoning them isn't what MMO's are supposed to be about.

The funniest thing is that it is the definition of insanity "repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results". F2P and the crowd that supports it, is one of the driving factors that is ruining what MMO's were supposed to be. I truly believe nothing will change, AAA MMO's with actual deep content as well as long term support via patches and innovation will continue to be P2P and the others, you will get what you pay for....

Your idea of what they are "supposed to be" isn't really relevant. The market certainly doesn't agree with you. There are only a handful of games left with P2P models (two of which I subscribe to). MMORPGs are moving away from P2P and into hybrid models and more people are playing them than ever before. It's just the way it is. It isn't destroying the scene and there are plenty of different games with plenty of different options.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Bigdaddyx

Elite Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1512

4/03/13 2:13:52 PM#67
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Originally posted by steelwind
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by steelwind

The only thing I hear spoken loudly is that the instant gratification/I want it now crowd is too poor and cheap to be able to afford $15/mo and would rather not invest anything into their MMO while expecting the same content and experience that P2P games provide. If you can't cough up $15/mo for hundreds of hours of gameplay imho you have bigger issues. Demanding that all games cater to cheapskates and freeloaders equate to every game activity attempting to funnel it's playerbase to the cash shop. Funneling players to cash shop does nothing to enhance the gaming experience and provides nothing but roadblocks.

Personally, I have a job and can afford to pay for a game I feel is worthy of my money, hell I'd pay $50/mo for a game if it was good enough. Just because you are poor and cheap doesn't mean the entire MMO industry has to change it's model for you, how about fixing the reason you can't afford $15/mo and get back to us?!

A huge percentage of the MMO industry has already changed.

And how is that turning out?

Last I checked, just about every F2P game is struggling to maintain subs. Please don't mention GW2 because that is the prime example of funneling players through the cash-shop limiting just about everything you do so you covert those gems or grab that new skin from the cash shop instead of being able to simple farm for things?

 GW2 is successful, profitable, produces new content as fas or faster than any other game. Its free to play, and you are not forced into using the cash shop - in fact as you say you can buy gems with gold or farm or both or neither, so where exactly is the 'funnelling' ?

example: I iave paid on average £2 a month on GW2 (bags at start) thats given me 682 hours of gameplay.  If I payed wow for that same period of time I would have paid £60+  Spot the value for money.  F2P and entirely optional cash shop goods is the future.

Well i am glad you spent only 2 bucks a month on GW2. But just imagine if everyone just thinks like that i wonder how poor Anet would be able to even pay salaries to its staff.

There is nothing wrong with spending a lot of money on game you enjoy. Because you are just doing your part in giving a long life to something you are enjoying.

It costs lot of money to keep MMOS going.

  wordiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/12
Posts: 481

4/03/13 2:14:20 PM#68

F2P games generally end up costing more that sub based games to enjoy the entire game.

The B2P model hasn't been done a whole lot, but in my experience with GW2, it made them obssesive over gold spammers and also lead to them nerfing any decent way to make gold in the game to try and force people to purchase currency. 

The BEST MMO's I've ever played were on a subscription. Everyone has paid the same amount, it's a level playing field, no item malls with pay to win options. It's a truly competitive platform. Developers get the funding they need, and the time to further develop the game instead of chasing gold spammers. Also, my immersion in a game is totally ruined when I have to bust out my credit card to buy things in game. In a virtual world I only want to think about virtual currency, I can play the bill paying game in real life. 

I would'nt mind seeing some other B2P models other than GW2 and Secret World (which started sub), but I don't want to see how they work on some of my more anticipated upcoming games. 

For now, sub is the way to go, devlopers just need to deliver a sub worthy game.

 

P.S.

Screw EA, who cares what they think. They are the spawn of Frankenstein. Grab your pitchforks!

 

http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12113

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

 
OP  4/03/13 2:15:49 PM#69
Originally posted by Amana
Edited the title just slightly to make it seem more like an outside paraphrase so people realize it.

Thanks, Amana.

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  ego13

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/04
Posts: 287

Hell is other people. - Sartre

4/03/13 2:18:44 PM#70
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Originally posted by Cirin
Originally posted by steelwind
And at the same time we have the least local player base in history and MMO"s which were originally made for long-term commitments measured in years has turned in to months if not days. People playing MMO's like single players games, consuming content then abandoning them isn't what MMO's are supposed to be about.

The funniest thing is that it is the definition of insanity "repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results". F2P and the crowd that supports it, is one of the driving factors that is ruining what MMO's were supposed to be. I truly believe nothing will change, AAA MMO's with actual deep content as well as long term support via patches and innovation will continue to be P2P and the others, you will get what you pay for....

 

This....so much...this.

Name a mmorg that provides value for money for their SUB in comparison to EVE, GW2, GW1 (examples of good cash shop games)

 

  When you list the games you're playing as GW2, Diablo(seriously!?) and Rift(again...really!?) then obviously you won't see eye to eye.  Although I don't play it currently WoW has much better value imo, EQ2 for their subs also.  

  GW2 has zero content and, as pointed out earlier, relies on crappy mini games that last a month to draw you in.  The only reason I play it currently is because it's something that's entertaining for an hour before I'm dreadfully bored of it.  I love the game itself but they can't seem to get their balancing down for pvp and it makes it fairly pointless to play for anything beyond the PvE aspect of it.  I love how they wanted it to be an E-Sport and there's NO WAY that would be considered at this point.

 

Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3266

4/03/13 2:34:50 PM#71
Originally posted by Cirin
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Originally posted by Cirin
Originally posted by steelwind
And at the same time we have the least local player base in history and MMO"s which were originally made for long-term commitments measured in years has turned in to months if not days. People playing MMO's like single players games, consuming content then abandoning them isn't what MMO's are supposed to be about.

The funniest thing is that it is the definition of insanity "repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results". F2P and the crowd that supports it, is one of the driving factors that is ruining what MMO's were supposed to be. I truly believe nothing will change, AAA MMO's with actual deep content as well as long term support via patches and innovation will continue to be P2P and the others, you will get what you pay for....

 

This....so much...this.

Name a mmorg that provides value for money for their SUB in comparison to EVE, GW2, GW1 (examples of good cash shop games)

 

  When you list the games you're playing as GW2, Diablo(seriously!?) and Rift(again...really!?) then obviously you won't see eye to eye.  Although I don't play it currently WoW has much better value imo, EQ2 for their subs also.  

  GW2 has zero content and, as pointed out earlier, relies on crappy mini games that last a month to draw you in.  The only reason I play it currently is because it's something that's entertaining for an hour before I'm dreadfully bored of it.  I love the game itself but they can't seem to get their balancing down for pvp and it makes it fairly pointless to play for anything beyond the PvE aspect of it.  I love how they wanted it to be an E-Sport and there's NO WAY that would be considered at this point.

 

  Im talking value for money aka content per pound spent (regardless of personal favourites or attacks on a persons gaming history (odd))  WOW's content release is well know for being pitifully slow and certainly not £10 a month greater than GW2.  For example, WOW April fools release = nada, GW2 is 3 zones.  personal taste asside, Blizzard should be pumping out huge volumes of content that far exceeeds any other game to justify the extra money they take of you. 

Sub does not = greater value for money as things stand in the markety currently - maybe it will change.  If for exdample a mmorg came out with a sub of say £4 a month, then I would be tempted if it was good, thats competitive.

 

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2393

World > Quest Progression

4/03/13 2:40:31 PM#72
I still like the term Freemium when speaking of MMOs because there seems to be a huge distinction between it and F2P.

Most previously sub games are now Freemium since they have both a sub option and free options. Of the major titles only Aion went completly F2P without restrictions (L2 as well?) and how did it do? It has seen two waves of "reduction" to NCWest and is a sliver on NCs quarterly report.

So where is the line between F2P and Freemium? The ones who still sub or the cost of the content that you get with a sub. Unless there are numbers showing the difference between sub revenue and CS revenue per game I'll conclude that F2P on it's own is a baaaad idea. As an option to a sub game? Great if they need the extra money and/or word of mouth. The only bad part to F2P in a sub game is the mandatory monetization that may make the game seem cheap to paying subs.

On a side note about EQ2:
Other than Freeport all of the servers I have touched, especially Butcherblock :), have good communities. You don't get the whole game for free however. Unless they changed it with the last race/class unlocks (Hunter time!) you can get to level 80 and have content through Sentinals Fate. That being said I'd still like to see another free or freemium game offer as much content as EQ2 up to level 80 :).

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2393

World > Quest Progression

4/03/13 2:43:29 PM#73
I, um, meant Ranger and will hang my head in shame LOL. If it makes any differnce I had Ben playing a Ranger in EQ the other day :)
  newchemicals

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/06
Posts: 43

4/03/13 2:44:40 PM#74
Originally posted by Loktofeit

Title is quote from an EA exec on the free to play model.

 

Full article: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-04-02-ea-mobile-boss-freemium-haters-a-vocal-minority

Fine by me, I'll vote with my wallet and support P2P. I'll never buy anything and just hog up hard drive space on the F2P garbage.

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4650

4/03/13 2:46:41 PM#75
Originally posted by steelwind

The funniest thing is that it is the definition of insanity "repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results".

That's not the definition of insantiy or even close. That is a bastardized version of a comment made by Albert Einstein.

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  Karelia

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/12
Posts: 688

4/03/13 2:53:50 PM#76
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Originally posted by Cirin
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Originally posted by Cirin
Originally posted by steelwind
And at the same time we have the least local player base in history and MMO"s which were originally made for long-term commitments measured in years has turned in to months if not days. People playing MMO's like single players games, consuming content then abandoning them isn't what MMO's are supposed to be about.

The funniest thing is that it is the definition of insanity "repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results". F2P and the crowd that supports it, is one of the driving factors that is ruining what MMO's were supposed to be. I truly believe nothing will change, AAA MMO's with actual deep content as well as long term support via patches and innovation will continue to be P2P and the others, you will get what you pay for....

 

This....so much...this.

Name a mmorg that provides value for money for their SUB in comparison to EVE, GW2, GW1 (examples of good cash shop games)

 

  When you list the games you're playing as GW2, Diablo(seriously!?) and Rift(again...really!?) then obviously you won't see eye to eye.  Although I don't play it currently WoW has much better value imo, EQ2 for their subs also.  

  GW2 has zero content and, as pointed out earlier, relies on crappy mini games that last a month to draw you in.  The only reason I play it currently is because it's something that's entertaining for an hour before I'm dreadfully bored of it.  I love the game itself but they can't seem to get their balancing down for pvp and it makes it fairly pointless to play for anything beyond the PvE aspect of it.  I love how they wanted it to be an E-Sport and there's NO WAY that would be considered at this point.

 

  Im talking value for money aka content per pound spent (regardless of personal favourites or attacks on a persons gaming history (odd))  WOW's content release is well know for being pitifully slow and certainly not £10 a month greater than GW2.  For example, WOW April fools release = nada, GW2 is 3 zones.  personal taste asside, Blizzard should be pumping out huge volumes of content that far exceeeds any other game to justify the extra money they take of you. 

Sub does not = greater value for money as things stand in the markety currently - maybe it will change.  If for exdample a mmorg came out with a sub of say £4 a month, then I would be tempted if it was good, thats competitive.

 

 

i preffer quality than quantiy when it comes to content.

btw you know what wow (and other sub games) gives you that gw2 (or other b2p or f2p) dont? stable community. not good or bad, but stable. i m playing wow and i m in a guild that almost every day i see and chat with same ppl. almost same happens server wide. in my gw2 and tera guilds, every time i log in i see other ppl. many new joined, many left, many have days to log. i hate that.

i love when i meet ppl i used to play with before some years ago. today i met again 2 kids i played back in BC. it was a nice feeling. i didnt play even a single hour. i just talk with them, just that.

i like f2p, but in games i dont spent much of my time or much effort. if i want to play serious and competitive, i ll go to a sub game. at least me :)

  steelwind

Elite Member

Joined: 8/04/04
Posts: 268

4/03/13 2:55:17 PM#77
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by steelwind

The funniest thing is that it is the definition of insanity "repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results".

That's not the definition of insantiy or even close. That is a bastardized version of a comment made by Albert Einstein.

Maybe you should have run a spell check on my posts as well and further derail the topic on my grammar? Considering you knew exactly what I was saying, my point still stands regardless if I looked up the exact comment made by Einstein or not.

Another note which just occurred to me about this mighty successful GW2, that it is the common opinion that GW2 cannot be played long-term as a main MMO. So basically this successful game needs to be supplemented with another MMO. So unless you LOVE temporary content, how do you play GW2 in it's current state long term? Again you get what you pay for.

  VengeSunsoar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4767

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

4/03/13 2:55:57 PM#78
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by steelwind

The funniest thing is that it is the definition of insanity "repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results".

That's not the definition of insantiy or even close. That is a bastardized version of a comment made by Albert Einstein.

 I always thought it was a bit silly myself as rarely is anything ever the same.

The actions may be the same but the people may be different, you may be different, attitutudes and culture may be different...

edit - and I think the actual quote was "repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results"

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3266

4/03/13 3:03:23 PM#79
Originally posted by Manolios
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Originally posted by Cirin
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Originally posted by Cirin
Originally posted by steelwind
And at the same time we have the least local player base in history and MMO"s which were originally made for long-term commitments measured in years has turned in to months if not days. People playing MMO's like single players games, consuming content then abandoning them isn't what MMO's are supposed to be about.

The funniest thing is that it is the definition of insanity "repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results". F2P and the crowd that supports it, is one of the driving factors that is ruining what MMO's were supposed to be. I truly believe nothing will change, AAA MMO's with actual deep content as well as long term support via patches and innovation will continue to be P2P and the others, you will get what you pay for....

 

This....so much...this.

Name a mmorg that provides value for money for their SUB in comparison to EVE, GW2, GW1 (examples of good cash shop games)

 

  When you list the games you're playing as GW2, Diablo(seriously!?) and Rift(again...really!?) then obviously you won't see eye to eye.  Although I don't play it currently WoW has much better value imo, EQ2 for their subs also.  

  GW2 has zero content and, as pointed out earlier, relies on crappy mini games that last a month to draw you in.  The only reason I play it currently is because it's something that's entertaining for an hour before I'm dreadfully bored of it.  I love the game itself but they can't seem to get their balancing down for pvp and it makes it fairly pointless to play for anything beyond the PvE aspect of it.  I love how they wanted it to be an E-Sport and there's NO WAY that would be considered at this point.

 

  Im talking value for money aka content per pound spent (regardless of personal favourites or attacks on a persons gaming history (odd))  WOW's content release is well know for being pitifully slow and certainly not £10 a month greater than GW2.  For example, WOW April fools release = nada, GW2 is 3 zones.  personal taste asside, Blizzard should be pumping out huge volumes of content that far exceeeds any other game to justify the extra money they take of you. 

Sub does not = greater value for money as things stand in the markety currently - maybe it will change.  If for exdample a mmorg came out with a sub of say £4 a month, then I would be tempted if it was good, thats competitive.

 

 

i preffer quality than quantiy when it comes to content.

btw you know what wow (and other sub games) gives you that gw2 (or other b2p or f2p) dont? stable community. not good or bad, but stable. i m playing wow and i m in a guild that almost every day i see and chat with same ppl. almost same happens server wide. in my gw2 and tera guilds, every time i log in i see other ppl. many new joined, many left, many have days to log. i hate that.

i love when i meet ppl i used to play with before some years ago. today i met again 2 kids i played back in BC. it was a nice feeling. i didnt play even a single hour. i just talk with them, just that.

i like f2p, but in games i dont spent much of my time or much effort. if i want to play serious and competitive, i ll go to a sub game. at least me :)

  Content per £ paid has got nothing to do with the quality of person playing, just looks at wow general chat.  I am also in a good guild with lots of friendly people (Eve and GW2)  its all subjective, but whats not subjective is the amount of content - for e.g some would argue that GW2 fractals were not to their taste, or WOW raids, but the question is who gives greatest amount of content per £.

Here is a thought, It is well known that Blizzard reap HUGE profits from your £9 a month - i.e not converting to content, wouldnt it be great if they were far less greedy and the Sub came down to say £5 to reflect the amount ot content they provided and the age of the game?  Its value for money we are trying to quantify, not subjective opinion on type of content.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4650

4/03/13 3:09:39 PM#80
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by steelwind

The funniest thing is that it is the definition of insanity "repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results".

That's not the definition of insantiy or even close. That is a bastardized version of a comment made by Albert Einstein.

 I always thought it was a bit silly myself as rarely is anything ever the same.

The actions may be the same but the people may be different, you may be different, attitutudes and culture may be different...

edit - and I think the actual quote was "repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results"

 

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

He was refering to researchers repeating the same experiments the same way and expecting the result to be different.

 

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

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