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MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Greed Monger switches back to Unity and Forums get Removed!

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284 posts found
  Biskop

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/11
Posts: 728

4/03/13 12:41:36 AM#81
Originally posted by taus01
Originally posted by Jayaris

To the people linking the Hype Meter Picture, this is an issue with the way the hype meter works. If a game is added to the site and the first group of votes are largely positive then it rockets to the top of the chart (as it has done for dozens of games) after about a few hours Greedmonger slipped off the top five.

 

Appleton just happened to screenshot it to take advantage of the way it works. 

 

This needs to be changed, it has been brought up many times before but MMORPG does not seem to listen to reason in the case of this stupid hype meter.

Anyone using mmorpg.com's hype meter to gauge game quality deserves to be scammed.

  Beatnik59

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/23/05
Posts: 2060

"Playing things I shouldn''t be playing since 1977."

4/03/13 4:00:26 AM#82
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by taus01

 

Why did the Greed Monger Forums get removed? Was this a request from Jason Appleton to remove the negative information posted about the game?

In case this hasn't been answered yet, yes.  He emailed me directly and asked us to remove the negative posts about the game.  He also hinted at taking legal action if we didn't remove the posts of our users, and we decided we didn't need a baseless lawsuit.  

If you want to blame someone for the removal of the game listing and forums, blame Jason Appleton.  But when someone threatens us with legal action, we can either a.) ignore it or b.) react with what we think is appropriate.  In Greed Monger's case, it's probably just better to igore its existence as a website.  

I wish the Greed Monger devs well, but I'm not too thrilled with how they handled the negativity our forum users tossed their way.  If they can't take the criticism and claims of trolls, they're in for a rude awakening in this industry.  

Maybe one day we'll re-add the game to our list, but that depends on whether or not our users are allowed to post about it without the site being under threat of legal recourse.

Thanks for the explanation.  But I strongly suggest that the MMORPG staff ought to rethink this type of knee jerk reaction in the future.

This incident and the WWII Online incident sets a real bad precedent.  It shows that we can follow the MMORPG.com rules, but have our posts and forums deleted simply because a developer or publisher doesn't like what we say.  I mean, who's in charge here, anyway?  Is it the MMORPG.com staff?  Or is it the publishing houses?

Everyone on the staff seems so concerned lately with every two-bit, nasty developer's request--however unreasonable it may be--but did anyone ever stop to think about us?  Your users?  What about our posts and our threads--threads that we thought would be protected by you in the interests of a free gaming press, free gaming forums, and the exchange of information?  I've read good posts on those forums.  I don't think it's right to destoy our content (and your content, I might add), simply because some producer gets mad.

After all, look at all the press you guys gave to WWII Online and Greed Monger.  They certainly didn't complain when the press was good did they?  But their requests for a media blackout and redaction of everything that was said--past and present--sets a bad tone.  You basically just gave every developer and publishing house a owner's manual on how to shut down MMORPG.com when the members aren't doing good PR for them.  And if you are going to lay down for Appleton, what will this website do when Smedly or Taek jin Kim asks to remove your forums?

We deserve a website that will protect its forums from baseless lawsuits, not destroy them out of fear of baseless lawsuits.  Heck, even SomethingAwful.com protects its forums from baseless lawsuits.  Because if you can't protect our forum posts when a producer decides, on a whim, that he doesn't like them, you have more or less surrendered your fiduciary responsibility to your users to their PR people.  I don't post here to serve their PR interests.  I post here to read and write the truth and honest opinions.

Just my 2gp.

 

__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken

"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  Biskop

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/11
Posts: 728

4/03/13 4:55:26 AM#83
Originally posted by Beatnik59
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by taus01

 

Why did the Greed Monger Forums get removed? Was this a request from Jason Appleton to remove the negative information posted about the game?

In case this hasn't been answered yet, yes.  He emailed me directly and asked us to remove the negative posts about the game.  He also hinted at taking legal action if we didn't remove the posts of our users, and we decided we didn't need a baseless lawsuit.  

If you want to blame someone for the removal of the game listing and forums, blame Jason Appleton.  But when someone threatens us with legal action, we can either a.) ignore it or b.) react with what we think is appropriate.  In Greed Monger's case, it's probably just better to igore its existence as a website.  

I wish the Greed Monger devs well, but I'm not too thrilled with how they handled the negativity our forum users tossed their way.  If they can't take the criticism and claims of trolls, they're in for a rude awakening in this industry.  

Maybe one day we'll re-add the game to our list, but that depends on whether or not our users are allowed to post about it without the site being under threat of legal recourse.

Thanks for the explanation.  But I strongly suggest that the MMORPG staff ought to rethink this type of knee jerk reaction in the future.

This incident and the WWII Online incident sets a real bad precedent.  It shows that we can follow the MMORPG.com rules, but have our posts and forums deleted simply because a developer or publisher doesn't like what we say.  I mean, who's in charge here, anyway?  Is it the MMORPG.com staff?  Or is it the publishing houses?

Everyone on the staff seems so concerned lately with every two-bit, nasty developer's request--however unreasonable it may be--but did anyone ever stop to think about us?  Your users?  What about our posts and our threads--threads that we thought would be protected by you in the interests of a free gaming press, free gaming forums, and the exchange of information?  I've read good posts on those forums.  I don't think it's right to destoy our content (and your content, I might add), simply because some producer gets mad.

After all, look at all the press you guys gave to WWII Online and Greed Monger.  They certainly didn't complain when the press was good did they?  But their requests for a media blackout and redaction of everything that was said--past and present--sets a bad tone.  You basically just gave every developer and publishing house a owner's manual on how to shut down MMORPG.com when the members aren't doing good PR for them.  And if you are going to lay down for Appleton, what will this website do when Smedly or Taek jin Kim asks to remove your forums?

We deserve a website that will protect its forums from baseless lawsuits, not destroy them out of fear of baseless lawsuits.  Heck, even SomethingAwful.com protects its forums from baseless lawsuits.  Because if you can't protect our forum posts when a producer decides, on a whim, that he doesn't like them, you have more or less surrendered your fiduciary responsibility to your users to their PR people.  I don't post here to serve their PR interests.  I post here to read and write the truth and honest opinions.

Just my 2gp.

 

Amen, brother.

This site's strength is its forums - without them it's just another ad site. I for one come here mainly to discuss games with fellow gamers and read their opinions, not for the "journalism" or pr stuff going on in the background.

If the editors here cave in to any disgruntled dev who happens to dislike what's on the forums, they'll soon be out of forum users.

  taus01

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 1419

 
OP  4/03/13 10:00:41 AM#84
Originally posted by Beatnik59
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by taus01

 

Why did the Greed Monger Forums get removed? Was this a request from Jason Appleton to remove the negative information posted about the game?

In case this hasn't been answered yet, yes.  He emailed me directly and asked us to remove the negative posts about the game.  He also hinted at taking legal action if we didn't remove the posts of our users, and we decided we didn't need a baseless lawsuit.  

If you want to blame someone for the removal of the game listing and forums, blame Jason Appleton.  But when someone threatens us with legal action, we can either a.) ignore it or b.) react with what we think is appropriate.  In Greed Monger's case, it's probably just better to igore its existence as a website.  

I wish the Greed Monger devs well, but I'm not too thrilled with how they handled the negativity our forum users tossed their way.  If they can't take the criticism and claims of trolls, they're in for a rude awakening in this industry.  

Maybe one day we'll re-add the game to our list, but that depends on whether or not our users are allowed to post about it without the site being under threat of legal recourse.

Thanks for the explanation.  But I strongly suggest that the MMORPG staff ought to rethink this type of knee jerk reaction in the future.

This incident and the WWII Online incident sets a real bad precedent.  It shows that we can follow the MMORPG.com rules, but have our posts and forums deleted simply because a developer or publisher doesn't like what we say.  I mean, who's in charge here, anyway?  Is it the MMORPG.com staff?  Or is it the publishing houses?

Everyone on the staff seems so concerned lately with every two-bit, nasty developer's request--however unreasonable it may be--but did anyone ever stop to think about us?  Your users?  What about our posts and our threads--threads that we thought would be protected by you in the interests of a free gaming press, free gaming forums, and the exchange of information?  I've read good posts on those forums.  I don't think it's right to destoy our content (and your content, I might add), simply because some producer gets mad.

After all, look at all the press you guys gave to WWII Online and Greed Monger.  They certainly didn't complain when the press was good did they?  But their requests for a media blackout and redaction of everything that was said--past and present--sets a bad tone.  You basically just gave every developer and publishing house a owner's manual on how to shut down MMORPG.com when the members aren't doing good PR for them.  And if you are going to lay down for Appleton, what will this website do when Smedly or Taek jin Kim asks to remove your forums?

We deserve a website that will protect its forums from baseless lawsuits, not destroy them out of fear of baseless lawsuits.  Heck, even SomethingAwful.com protects its forums from baseless lawsuits.  Because if you can't protect our forum posts when a producer decides, on a whim, that he doesn't like them, you have more or less surrendered your fiduciary responsibility to your users to their PR people.  I don't post here to serve their PR interests.  I post here to read and write the truth and honest opinions.

Just my 2gp.

 

 

I totally agree. They should bring the Forums Back.

There is no cost in waiting for this bully called Jason Appleton to file for a case and present you with any legal document that would in fact make you remove these posts. 

We all know that this will not happen as he has no legal grounds whatsoever against you. He won't get an injunction based on user posts.

What MMORPG did was give him what he wanted without a fight. What if i threaten to sue them to remove posts i don't like? Will they do it? I doubt it.

Either they are not telling us the full truth or there is something much more sinister goin on here.

 

BRING THE FORUMS BACK. PEOPLE NEED TO BE WARNED ABOUT THIS!

"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

  Sal1

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 166

4/03/13 3:24:57 PM#85
Originally posted by Beatnik59
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by taus01

 

Why did the Greed Monger Forums get removed? Was this a request from Jason Appleton to remove the negative information posted about the game?

In case this hasn't been answered yet, yes.  He emailed me directly and asked us to remove the negative posts about the game.  He also hinted at taking legal action if we didn't remove the posts of our users, and we decided we didn't need a baseless lawsuit.  

If you want to blame someone for the removal of the game listing and forums, blame Jason Appleton.  But when someone threatens us with legal action, we can either a.) ignore it or b.) react with what we think is appropriate.  In Greed Monger's case, it's probably just better to igore its existence as a website.  

I wish the Greed Monger devs well, but I'm not too thrilled with how they handled the negativity our forum users tossed their way.  If they can't take the criticism and claims of trolls, they're in for a rude awakening in this industry.  

Maybe one day we'll re-add the game to our list, but that depends on whether or not our users are allowed to post about it without the site being under threat of legal recourse.

Thanks for the explanation.  But I strongly suggest that the MMORPG staff ought to rethink this type of knee jerk reaction in the future.

This incident and the WWII Online incident sets a real bad precedent.  It shows that we can follow the MMORPG.com rules, but have our posts and forums deleted simply because a developer or publisher doesn't like what we say.  I mean, who's in charge here, anyway?  Is it the MMORPG.com staff?  Or is it the publishing houses?

Everyone on the staff seems so concerned lately with every two-bit, nasty developer's request--however unreasonable it may be--but did anyone ever stop to think about us?  Your users?  What about our posts and our threads--threads that we thought would be protected by you in the interests of a free gaming press, free gaming forums, and the exchange of information?  I've read good posts on those forums.  I don't think it's right to destoy our content (and your content, I might add), simply because some producer gets mad.

After all, look at all the press you guys gave to WWII Online and Greed Monger.  They certainly didn't complain when the press was good did they?  But their requests for a media blackout and redaction of everything that was said--past and present--sets a bad tone.  You basically just gave every developer and publishing house a owner's manual on how to shut down MMORPG.com when the members aren't doing good PR for them.  And if you are going to lay down for Appleton, what will this website do when Smedly or Taek jin Kim asks to remove your forums?

We deserve a website that will protect its forums from baseless lawsuits, not destroy them out of fear of baseless lawsuits.  Heck, even SomethingAwful.com protects its forums from baseless lawsuits.  Because if you can't protect our forum posts when a producer decides, on a whim, that he doesn't like them, you have more or less surrendered your fiduciary responsibility to your users to their PR people.  I don't post here to serve their PR interests.  I post here to read and write the truth and honest opinions.

Just my 2gp.

 

I agree with what Beatnik59 wrote here. 

 

If this site turns into just a hype/ advertisement site for the game developers I won't be logging in any longer. Unbiased opinions and independence from the game makers is what I want from MMORPG.com. When CNet changed the winner of that show award because some corporate boss told them to I quit looking at there site or anyone affliated with them. Because I know that it's just a public relations arm of CBS now. http://www.salon.com/2013/01/14/the_cnet_cbs_tv_technology_debacle/

 

 

  Brenelael

Guide

Joined: 10/19/06
Posts: 3912

Pointing out the Obvious to the Oblivious since 2006

4/03/13 4:39:59 PM#86

Didn't anyone read what Bill actually wrote? They were basically given a choice by the developer... Censor the forum or get sued. Given those options they decided to take option C instead... Remove the game entirely from the site. This was done because the developer wanted nothing but positive comments here with everything else moderated. Do you even know how much it costs to defend against a lawsuit? Even a baseless one? A lot more than this site can afford on something like this I'm sure. If you want MMORPG.com to have to defend itself from every baseless lawsuit thrown at them to defend your "Freedom to Troll" from shady developers that only want positive posts in their forums you better open your wallet because that is when this site becomes a members only club with a sub fee at the door.

 

Bill and the staff here at MMORPG.com did the absolute right thing when they removed the game. It sends a clear message that if you want your game listed here you have to let people speak their mind about it... good or bad. The bad guy here is Jason Appleton for wanting to censor what you or I or anyone else wanted to say about his so called game and not MMORPG.com. They did what was right in this situation.

 

Bren

while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}

  Waterlily

Novice Member

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 2875

4/03/13 4:57:40 PM#87
Originally posted by Brenelael

Didn't anyone read what Bill actually wrote? They were basically given a choice by the developer... Censor the forum or get sued. Given those options they decided to take option C instead... Remove the game entirely from the site. This was done because the developer wanted nothing but positive comments here with everything else moderated. Do you even know how much it costs to defend against a lawsuit? Even a baseless one? A lot more than this site can afford on something like this I'm sure. If you want MMORPG.com to have to defend itself from every baseless lawsuit thrown at them to defend your "Freedom to Troll" from shady developers that only want positive posts in their forums you better open your wallet because that is when this site becomes a members only club with a sub fee at the door.

 

Bill and the staff here at MMORPG.com did the absolute right thing when they removed the game. It sends a clear message that if you want your game listed here you have to let people speak their mind about it... good or bad. The bad guy here is Jason Appleton for wanting to censor what you or I or anyone else wanted to say about his so called game and not MMORPG.com. They did what was right in this situation.

 

Bren

Our neighbours have threatened to sue us 200 times give or take, if we actually gave in every time they threatened us we would be living on the street.

If someone threatenes to sue me online I just ignore it, if you give in they will do it again next time.

So now MMORPG.com said to all other companies..."if you don't like something, threaten and we'll take it down"

Something doesn't add up here.

  TribeofOne

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/10/05
Posts: 970

4/03/13 5:04:26 PM#88

I dont know what GreedMonger guys were thinking... no need to threaten to sue.. just pay for advertising and mmorpg will happily censor/mod-away negative posts/threads

  udon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1457

4/03/13 5:11:40 PM#89

Having MMORPG pull the game completly from their list is not what GM wanted I'm sure.  What they wanted is for MMORPG to selectvily censor the forum to suit their best interests.  MMORPG didn't want to do that, they also didn't want to "fight the good fight" sort of speak and risk taking on legal action so they did the best 3rd option presented to them.  They removed the game completely.

I would much rather see them pull games completly off this site than cave to pressure to pull offending posts.  It sends a message to developers that you either accept MMORPG's forum policies and moderation or you op out of the site completly and lose any of the benifits that being listed here gives you.  I think it's a fair trade off.

  Beatnik59

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/23/05
Posts: 2060

"Playing things I shouldn''t be playing since 1977."

4/03/13 5:53:22 PM#90
Originally posted by Brenelael

Didn't anyone read what Bill actually wrote? They were basically given a choice by the developer... Censor the forum or get sued. Given those options they decided to take option C instead... Remove the game entirely from the site. This was done because the developer wanted nothing but positive comments here with everything else moderated. Do you even know how much it costs to defend against a lawsuit? Even a baseless one? A lot more than this site can afford on something like this I'm sure. If you want MMORPG.com to have to defend itself from every baseless lawsuit thrown at them to defend your "Freedom to Troll" from shady developers that only want positive posts in their forums you better open your wallet because that is when this site becomes a members only club with a sub fee at the door.

 

Bill and the staff here at MMORPG.com did the absolute right thing when they removed the game. It sends a clear message that if you want your game listed here you have to let people speak their mind about it... good or bad. The bad guy here is Jason Appleton for wanting to censor what you or I or anyone else wanted to say about his so called game and not MMORPG.com. They did what was right in this situation.

 

Bren

I respectfully disagree.

Nobody wants MMORPG.com to suffer a lawsuit.  But this isn't removing Greed Monger from the list.  This is purging the discussion of Greed Monger on this site, which is exactly what Greed Monger (and WWII Online) wanted.  You say MMORPG.com didn't censor the forum, like Appleton wanted.  In fact, they did better than what Appleton wanted: they purged any indication that the controversy over Greed Monger ever happened.

It's one thing to remove all future associations with a game.  That's doing what may or may not be necessary to prevent a lawsuit.  It's another thing to purge access to the discussion that had already taken place.  That is something no media site ought to tolerate, because it disrupts the fundamental integrity of independent media at its core.

People ought to know that their honest opinions and information aren't going to "disappear" simply because a lawyer wants it to disappear.  Because when we go through that door, what's to stop NCsoft from threatening MMORPG.com to remove all the discussion of CoH over the years?  Or SoE to remove all discussion of SWG over the years?

Call me old fashioned, but I do not believe that purging history is "the right call" for a media outlet which wants to portray itself as responsible and independent.  All it shows is that the site can be bullied into giving up both, whenever a PR person and a lawyer want.

__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken

"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  Talonsin

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/19/06
Posts: 1005

4/03/13 6:01:50 PM#91

I think Bill did the right thing.  As a business owner, Bill made the decision that protected his assets, required the least amount of effort and sent a clear message that he was not happy with the people behind GM.  Any other course of action would have only cost him more resources and headaches.  Even if Bill left the site up and ignored the threat, Jason would have continued to whine and cause headaches even if he didnt sue.  Bill made the most effective decision he could have.

 

  Brenelael

Guide

Joined: 10/19/06
Posts: 3912

Pointing out the Obvious to the Oblivious since 2006

4/03/13 6:30:07 PM#92
Originally posted by Beatnik59
Originally posted by Brenelael

Didn't anyone read what Bill actually wrote? They were basically given a choice by the developer... Censor the forum or get sued. Given those options they decided to take option C instead... Remove the game entirely from the site. This was done because the developer wanted nothing but positive comments here with everything else moderated. Do you even know how much it costs to defend against a lawsuit? Even a baseless one? A lot more than this site can afford on something like this I'm sure. If you want MMORPG.com to have to defend itself from every baseless lawsuit thrown at them to defend your "Freedom to Troll" from shady developers that only want positive posts in their forums you better open your wallet because that is when this site becomes a members only club with a sub fee at the door.

 

Bill and the staff here at MMORPG.com did the absolute right thing when they removed the game. It sends a clear message that if you want your game listed here you have to let people speak their mind about it... good or bad. The bad guy here is Jason Appleton for wanting to censor what you or I or anyone else wanted to say about his so called game and not MMORPG.com. They did what was right in this situation.

 

Bren

I respectfully disagree.

Nobody wants MMORPG.com to suffer a lawsuit.  But this isn't removing Greed Monger from the list.  This is purging the discussion of Greed Monger on this site, which is exactly what Greed Monger (and WWII Online) wanted.  You say MMORPG.com didn't censor the forum, like Appleton wanted.  In fact, they did better than what Appleton wanted: they purged any indication that the controversy over Greed Monger ever happened.

It's one thing to remove all future associations with a game.  That's doing what may or may not be necessary to prevent a lawsuit.  It's another thing to purge access to the discussion that had already taken place.  That is something no media site ought to tolerate, because it disrupts the fundamental integrity of independent media at its core.

People ought to know that their honest opinions and information aren't going to "disappear" simply because a lawyer wants it to disappear.  Because when we go through that door, what's to stop NCsoft from threatening MMORPG.com to remove all the discussion of CoH over the years?  Or SoE to remove all discussion of SWG over the years?

Call me old fashioned, but I do not believe that purging history is "the right call" for a media outlet which wants to portray itself as responsible and independent.  All it shows is that the site can be bullied into giving up both, whenever a PR person and a lawyer want.

They removed the forum and the game but did nothing to stop the discussion.  All removing the game and forum did was move the discussion to the Pub where EVERYONE will see it. This is better as in the Pub this site did nothing to spur this discussion on as in provide it a forum specifically for this discussion. They can't get sued for this as they did not provide the means or the start of this discussion and hence why this topic is not locked or deleted.  Some of you seem so quick to jump on MMORPG.com for stopping discussion about Greed Monger by removing the forum but here we are... Discussing it. If anything they shined a spot light on this game and all of it's shady practices by removing the forum and forcing the discussion to here in the Pub where everyone will see it.

 

You people talk about MMORPG.com stopping the discussion when the discussion over this game is probably 10 times what it was before the forum was removed. Please stop and think about it for a minute.

 

Bren

while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}

  Aelious

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2258

World > Quest Progression

4/03/13 6:49:47 PM#93
Originally posted by Brenelael
 

They removed the forum and the game but did nothing to stop the discussion.  All removing the game and forum did was move the discussion to the Pub where EVERYONE will see it. This is better as in the Pub this site did nothing to spur this discussion on as in provide it a forum specifically for this discussion. They can't get sued for this as they did not provide the means or the start of this discussion and hence why this topic is not locked or deleted.  Some of you seem so quick to jump on MMORPG.com for stopping discussion about Greed Monger by removing the forum but here we are... Discussing it. If anything they shined a spot light on this game and all of it's shady practices by removing the forum and forcing the discussion to here in the Pub where everyone will see it.

 

You people talk about MMORPG.com stopping the discussion when the discussion over this game is probably 10 times what it was before the forum was removed. Please stop and think about it for a minute.

 

Bren

 

I have to agree with this since I wasn't even aware of the GM issues until this thread was started .

 

Edit: In my opinion OP you should change the title of the thread to reflect the message you want seen rather than coming at MMORPG.com and risk having people not care.

  Consensus

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 2081

R.I.P Darkfall

4/03/13 7:03:22 PM#94
Originally posted by taus01

 

I am baffled...

Great post! really interesting read. I find it quite impressive how he managed to pull it off with zero experience in such little time.  I mean I was pretty skeptical about greed monger, but I still thought it had potential.

Only a matter of time until someone exploited kickstarter. luckily this wasn't such a big amount as others.

  Jacxolope

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/13
Posts: 424

4/03/13 7:07:57 PM#95
Originally posted by Beatnik59
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by taus01

 

Why did the Greed Monger Forums get removed? Was this a request from Jason Appleton to remove the negative information posted about the game?

In case this hasn't been answered yet, yes.  He emailed me directly and asked us to remove the negative posts about the game.  He also hinted at taking legal action if we didn't remove the posts of our users, and we decided we didn't need a baseless lawsuit.  

If you want to blame someone for the removal of the game listing and forums, blame Jason Appleton.  But when someone threatens us with legal action, we can either a.) ignore it or b.) react with what we think is appropriate.  In Greed Monger's case, it's probably just better to igore its existence as a website.  

I wish the Greed Monger devs well, but I'm not too thrilled with how they handled the negativity our forum users tossed their way.  If they can't take the criticism and claims of trolls, they're in for a rude awakening in this industry.  

Maybe one day we'll re-add the game to our list, but that depends on whether or not our users are allowed to post about it without the site being under threat of legal recourse.

Thanks for the explanation.  But I strongly suggest that the MMORPG staff ought to rethink this type of knee jerk reaction in the future.

This incident and the WWII Online incident sets a real bad precedent.  It shows that we can follow the MMORPG.com rules, but have our posts and forums deleted simply because a developer or publisher doesn't like what we say.  I mean, who's in charge here, anyway?  Is it the MMORPG.com staff?  Or is it the publishing houses?

Everyone on the staff seems so concerned lately with every two-bit, nasty developer's request--however unreasonable it may be--but did anyone ever stop to think about us?  Your users?  What about our posts and our threads--threads that we thought would be protected by you in the interests of a free gaming press, free gaming forums, and the exchange of information?  I've read good posts on those forums.  I don't think it's right to destoy our content (and your content, I might add), simply because some producer gets mad.

After all, look at all the press you guys gave to WWII Online and Greed Monger.  They certainly didn't complain when the press was good did they?  But their requests for a media blackout and redaction of everything that was said--past and present--sets a bad tone.  You basically just gave every developer and publishing house a owner's manual on how to shut down MMORPG.com when the members aren't doing good PR for them.  And if you are going to lay down for Appleton, what will this website do when Smedly or Taek jin Kim asks to remove your forums?

We deserve a website that will protect its forums from baseless lawsuits, not destroy them out of fear of baseless lawsuits.  Heck, even SomethingAwful.com protects its forums from baseless lawsuits.  Because if you can't protect our forum posts when a producer decides, on a whim, that he doesn't like them, you have more or less surrendered your fiduciary responsibility to your users to their PR people.  I don't post here to serve their PR interests.  I post here to read and write the truth and honest opinions.

Just my 2gp.

 

I am wiping a tear from my eye... Hell, after that post I am ready to join the damn Army! I could even hear music in the background while reading and visualize the struggle of mankind from his meager beginings in a cave fighting for survival to the spreading of Democracy with drones and A-Bombs.

-You Sir, should write speeches. =P

On a serious note though- I 100% agree. But damn, even if I idnt your post would have changed my mind. LOL

  JamesP

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/04/06
Posts: 304

4/03/13 7:08:55 PM#96
Originally posted by Consensus
Originally posted by taus01

 

I am baffled...

Great post! really interesting read. I find it quite impressive how he managed to pull it off with zero experience in such little time.  I mean I was pretty skeptical about greed monger, but I still thought it had potential.

Only a matter of time until someone exploited kickstarter. luckily this wasn't such a big amount as others.

We never exploited KickStarter and we will never exploit anything...

Lead Programmer
Greed Monger
http://www.GreedMonger.com

  Beatnik59

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/23/05
Posts: 2060

"Playing things I shouldn''t be playing since 1977."

4/03/13 8:40:41 PM#97
Originally posted by Brenelael
Originally posted by Beatnik59
Originally posted by Brenelael

Didn't anyone read what Bill actually wrote? They were basically given a choice by the developer... Censor the forum or get sued. Given those options they decided to take option C instead... Remove the game entirely from the site. This was done because the developer wanted nothing but positive comments here with everything else moderated. Do you even know how much it costs to defend against a lawsuit? Even a baseless one? A lot more than this site can afford on something like this I'm sure. If you want MMORPG.com to have to defend itself from every baseless lawsuit thrown at them to defend your "Freedom to Troll" from shady developers that only want positive posts in their forums you better open your wallet because that is when this site becomes a members only club with a sub fee at the door.

 

Bill and the staff here at MMORPG.com did the absolute right thing when they removed the game. It sends a clear message that if you want your game listed here you have to let people speak their mind about it... good or bad. The bad guy here is Jason Appleton for wanting to censor what you or I or anyone else wanted to say about his so called game and not MMORPG.com. They did what was right in this situation.

 

Bren

I respectfully disagree.

Nobody wants MMORPG.com to suffer a lawsuit.  But this isn't removing Greed Monger from the list.  This is purging the discussion of Greed Monger on this site, which is exactly what Greed Monger (and WWII Online) wanted.  You say MMORPG.com didn't censor the forum, like Appleton wanted.  In fact, they did better than what Appleton wanted: they purged any indication that the controversy over Greed Monger ever happened.

It's one thing to remove all future associations with a game.  That's doing what may or may not be necessary to prevent a lawsuit.  It's another thing to purge access to the discussion that had already taken place.  That is something no media site ought to tolerate, because it disrupts the fundamental integrity of independent media at its core.

People ought to know that their honest opinions and information aren't going to "disappear" simply because a lawyer wants it to disappear.  Because when we go through that door, what's to stop NCsoft from threatening MMORPG.com to remove all the discussion of CoH over the years?  Or SoE to remove all discussion of SWG over the years?

Call me old fashioned, but I do not believe that purging history is "the right call" for a media outlet which wants to portray itself as responsible and independent.  All it shows is that the site can be bullied into giving up both, whenever a PR person and a lawyer want.

They removed the forum and the game but did nothing to stop the discussion.  All removing the game and forum did was move the discussion to the Pub where EVERYONE will see it. This is better as in the Pub this site did nothing to spur this discussion on as in provide it a forum specifically for this discussion. They can't get sued for this as they did not provide the means or the start of this discussion and hence why this topic is not locked or deleted.  Some of you seem so quick to jump on MMORPG.com for stopping discussion about Greed Monger by removing the forum but here we are... Discussing it. If anything they shined a spot light on this game and all of it's shady practices by removing the forum and forcing the discussion to here in the Pub where everyone will see it.

 

You people talk about MMORPG.com stopping the discussion when the discussion over this game is probably 10 times what it was before the forum was removed. Please stop and think about it for a minute.

 

Bren

Just wait.

If they handle this like they handled WWII Online, when the WWII Online producer "asked" to be removed, you won't find another discussion about Greed Monger tolerated on this site after this thread drops.  I tried looking for WWII Online threads post-removal, and they're all locked in short order.

When they remove a game here, they don't just remove the game.  They also remove all attempts at discussing the removal, or discussing the game removed.  When it gets removed here, discussions about it get shut down as well.  In short, Greed Monger--like WWII Online--are now "off limits" for us on these forums.  Because moving the discussion to the Pub doesn't in any way prevent this producer from sending the same nasty threats about lawsuits if the posts criticizing his game aren't removed.  And, if recent events are any guide, this site will do Appleton's wishes and lock or delete any discussion we bring up regarding Greed Monger.

__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken

"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  Aelious

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2258

World > Quest Progression

4/03/13 9:17:34 PM#98
We'll have to see but there's a difference between discussing what's going on with GM and discussing how things are handled on this site. If someone starts a thread challenging decisions made by staff it will be lock and has nothing to do with the actual topic.
  Fugglier

Novice Member

Joined: 3/25/13
Posts: 25

"If I had nickel for every time I have been banned....."

4/03/13 9:21:02 PM#99
Guess the GM guys didnt know thats what we do here, needlessly and senselessly bash games.

"..........Lulz......try to IP ban me if you want, hasn't worked yet. I am still here. I have always been here.........."

  aRtFuLThinG

Novice Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1000

4/03/13 9:24:06 PM#100
Greedy Monder Gluckers!
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