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MMORPG Game Concepts  » Death Concept.

3 posts found
  anemo

Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/10
Posts: 699

 
OP  3/31/13 9:46:08 AM#1

The general concept is that players can't die, they can only really get "meat grindered" into being relatively useless for the next hour or so OR they give up(teleport away).

Health is instead shifted to defenses.  You could have broad defenses where it blocks any type of damage(at high energy cost), or specific defenses where you block a type of damage(elemental or more specific fire.   Weapon or more specific slashing).  Damage amounts generally shifted towards Crowd Control effects(typically increasing costs of defenses or attacks).

Attacks are also simplified likely to the extent of mudStyle combat where players are "locked in" and trading blows.  This is a design effort to limit the number of animations required and to allow players to focus more of their play+focus to activating defenses.

When a player has no defense that can be struck the player is put into a downed state for 30 seconds.   While in this state they chose to teleport away, or to rise again at with an semi-unremovable debuff that lasts for 30 minutes(less effective CC, harder to run away, slower attack rates, and similar).   The debuff stacks in magnitude of effect and duration as a player has more applied to them(the term "meat grindered" eventually applying).

__________

For PvE this means I can shift the focus towards harder encounters that still allow all of the community to play through them.  For instance an "elite team" could go through an entire area with some loses, where as a weaker team would have to cherry pick 1 or 2 of the bosses(instead of all 6).   Death penalties from PvE are also removable on going into town.

For PvP I can change a few mechanics to make the random gank more unattractive.   Death penalties for any PvPer combat(defender or attacker) are not removed at town, PvE death penalties have no effect on PvPer mechanics, and someone unflagged(did not start a unprovoked fight) has one free Downed state(no penalties, and for PvP only).   Meaning the PvPer will probably get Downed at least once.   The design goal for this is to have an open-ish PvPer enviromoment, but to leave PvPer to only be around for personal reasons rather than financial.

Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

"There are still vast swaths of our planet's surface in which it's surprisingly easy to lose things. Even a ship the size of a large building." Richard Fisher

  ManDown717

Novice Member

Joined: 3/21/13
Posts: 4

3/31/13 10:46:57 PM#2

The health as a defense type is an interesting approach to a combat system, but the death penalty itself seems pretty standard with an added penalty that seems like it would hinder gameplay at every level.  I'll explain my thinking below.

 Solo PvE- Assuming the penalty isn't too drastic it won't have much effect on the majority of players who traditionally fight lower level mobs for "optimum" leveling speed.  It does punish/restrict players from trying to fight higher/elite mobs that aren't designed for solo play.

 

Solo PvP (1v1)-Assuming a perfectly balanced game, with evenly matched players, after the first fight, how does the defeated player ever bounce back from the corpse camper?  I mean their body lays there for 30 seconds which means the attacker has 30 seconds to heal, buff, and setup an ideal condiditon for the next attack.  And I'm assuming the defeated player can't change gear or buff while in the downed state, so if you add on a penalty on top of that, I see a very minimal chance at bouncing back.

 

Group PvE-I'm unclear how the penalty allows you to focus on harder content that's "open" to all.  I've been on progression raids where we've wiped 10-15 times on a boss in one evening.  Either your penalty means they have to run back to town every few deaths to remove it, or it just crushes the raid for the evening.  Or it is a group who have "mastered" the instance/raid and the penalty is not an issue.

 

Group PvP-Unclear how it would effect group PvP.  Waiting on answers to questions below.

 

Questions-Answers could change my responses to the first 3 scenarios as well.

-Would being rezzed remove or reduce the penalty?

-What process would the player need to go through to change their defense type?  For example, I'm running with an elemental focused defense, but missed the patch notes that nerfed elemental effects and now everyone is using straight physical attacks, do I have to go find a trainer to "reset" my defense setup?

-Do the players pick where they teleport to?  How easy is it to regroup after a wipe?

  anemo

Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/10
Posts: 699

 
OP  4/01/13 8:01:36 AM#3

Questions-Answers could change my responses to the first 3 scenarios as well.

-Would being rezzed remove or reduce the penalty?

No rezzing abilities.  Players are imortal and owing a favor for the rest of eternity sounds horrible.   There could be rezzing skills that could be used on NPCs though

-What process would the player need to go through to change their defense type?  For example, I'm running with an elemental focused defense, but missed the patch notes that nerfed elemental effects and now everyone is using straight physical attacks, do I have to go find a trainer to "reset" my defense setup?

Armor has natural defenses that you can't activate and similar.  So changing gear would work.  Activated defenses you should have a little bit of everything, so you'll be forced to be less efficient for a while.  The design intention is to have fewwer attack options and more defense options.

-Do the players pick where they teleport to?  How easy is it to regroup after a wipe?

Haven't decided yet.   But it seems like a good idea to give groups the option to spawn together somewhere.

Catching up after PvP.

This is a good point.  Passive defense like armor are going to be slightly damaged for the person who wasn't downed, but restored for the person who was.  Activated defenses require a viable target.   So it's possible to have the "can't catch up" case in PvP, but if you can get through some of the activated defenses into armor you'll eventually have an advatage(but it's not just handed to you).

Catching up after PvE

In guildwars 1, I've seen groups fight thorugh a 50%+ max health debuff because it was easier to finish their goal in that state than to regroup in town.    I hope to achieve a similar effect.

Group PvP

Really have no clue how it would work out.    But there's going to be a lot of flanking and counter flanking.

Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

"There are still vast swaths of our planet's surface in which it's surprisingly easy to lose things. Even a ship the size of a large building." Richard Fisher