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General Discussion  » Will the real ESO please stand-up?

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252 posts found
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4155

 
OP  4/02/13 2:16:11 PM#221
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey
It is hard for me to get excited about this game, or any new "MMO" coming out. Before games come out there are always the hype, the forum debates, and the general "this is the MMO that will be different!" posts. Yet when the games launch, they are the same old recycled garbage we have been fed for years but with a prettier skin. In my opinion, there has not been an MMO released in a good many years that was worthy of the hype or debates. I hate to be negative, but given the track record of releases in the last few years, I find it hard to believe this game will be any different. I really, really, really hope I am wrong because I have been itching to play something that holds my attention for more than 4-6 weeks (GW2 I'm looking at you).

You can say that about any and all MMOs.

And they all are different...some more than others. Sometimes different  in a good way. Other times different in shitty ways.

This one is different because it's built around a 3-sided RvR system and not many MMORPGs have done that. It's also different in how you build your character to be unique by "leveling" class, armor and weapon types separately.

It's still early. We'll see if they can pull it all together into a quality package.

I'm sorry but the "differences" in new MMOs are few and far between. And no, the 3 sided RvR is not a new concept. Most new MMOs (despite their innovative "differences") mostly all amount to the same thing...something that is fun for a few weeks.

Oh I see... you want "never been done before" and engaging in the long term...we can always hope.

RPGs and even MMOs have been around long enough now that "firsts" are few and far between. Most everything is a variation on a theme. Usually variations on things that work.

You want something really, really new? Look at Scarlet Blade: no male characters and blatant sexpolitation MMO...

See, I don't equate new with "good." It's just as likely to be shit.

Yes, I fail to see where expecting some innovation from this genre is a fault on my end. I would play Scarlet Blade but it might be uncomfortable playing long sessions with a constant boner.

I don't equate new to good either, that I can agree on for sure.

 Too much information

I read somewhere that one of the things you can buy in their cash shop is a no-clothes mod that apparently still leaves them their high heels lol.

  Randayn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/16/12
Posts: 778

4/02/13 2:17:55 PM#222
Could you please stop using stupid pop culture cliches?

  Pixel_Jockey

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/13
Posts: 173

4/02/13 2:18:39 PM#223
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey
It is hard for me to get excited about this game, or any new "MMO" coming out. Before games come out there are always the hype, the forum debates, and the general "this is the MMO that will be different!" posts. Yet when the games launch, they are the same old recycled garbage we have been fed for years but with a prettier skin. In my opinion, there has not been an MMO released in a good many years that was worthy of the hype or debates. I hate to be negative, but given the track record of releases in the last few years, I find it hard to believe this game will be any different. I really, really, really hope I am wrong because I have been itching to play something that holds my attention for more than 4-6 weeks (GW2 I'm looking at you).

You can say that about any and all MMOs.

And they all are different...some more than others. Sometimes different  in a good way. Other times different in shitty ways.

This one is different because it's built around a 3-sided RvR system and not many MMORPGs have done that. It's also different in how you build your character to be unique by "leveling" class, armor and weapon types separately.

It's still early. We'll see if they can pull it all together into a quality package.

I'm sorry but the "differences" in new MMOs are few and far between. And no, the 3 sided RvR is not a new concept. Most new MMOs (despite their innovative "differences") mostly all amount to the same thing...something that is fun for a few weeks.

Oh I see... you want "never been done before" and engaging in the long term...we can always hope.

RPGs and even MMOs have been around long enough now that "firsts" are few and far between. Most everything is a variation on a theme. Usually variations on things that work.

You want something really, really new? Look at Scarlet Blade: no male characters and blatant sexpolitation MMO...

See, I don't equate new with "good." It's just as likely to be shit.

Yes, I fail to see where expecting some innovation from this genre is a fault on my end. I would play Scarlet Blade but it might be uncomfortable playing long sessions with a constant boner.

I don't equate new to good either, that I can agree on for sure.

 Too much information

I read somewhere that one of the things you can buy in their cash shop is a no-clothes mod that apparently still leaves them their high heels lol.

Lol...just jokes man, I wouldn't touch that game with a 10 ft. pole (no pun intended).

  StMichael

Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/10
Posts: 188

God said "Vengeance is mine." Don't think to bear his burden lightly.

4/03/13 12:52:12 AM#224

This all boils down to Zenimax baiting the Sandbox crowd (who have been waiting a LOOOONG time for a quality sandbox MMO) with the name of Elder Scrolls and then switching to an entirely different appeal. There might be some people who are satisfied with the lore of Elder Scrolls being there, but the vast majority of people who play elder scrolls games do so for the sandbox-y aspect more than anything. Being race-locked into a faction at war with most of the other races and out of 2/3rds of the pve map is a terrible first impression to make on avid fans of the series.

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

4/03/13 12:55:52 AM#225
Originally posted by StMichael

This all boils down to Zenimax baiting the Sandbox crowd (who have been waiting a LOOOONG time for a quality sandbox MMO) with the name of Elder Scrolls and then switching to an entirely different appeal. There might be some people who are satisfied with the lore of Elder Scrolls being there, but the vast majority of people who play elder scrolls games do so for the sandbox-y aspect more than anything. Being race-locked into a faction at war with most of the other races and out of 2/3rds of the pve map is a terrible first impression to make on avid fans of the series.

I really wish you  so called "true fans" would stop making terrible arguments and attempting to blame the studio with implying bait and switch tactics. While it is great for stirring up the mob its so far in left feild you are approaching conspiracy nuts.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  StMichael

Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/10
Posts: 188

God said "Vengeance is mine." Don't think to bear his burden lightly.

4/03/13 2:48:20 AM#226

What's wrong with my assessment? Elder Scrolls has been a signature sandbox game since Morrowind. Every person who has ever loved a sandbox game has played at least one of the Elder Scrolls games and is familiar with the name. Zenimax, however, has opted not to embrace the sandbox elements the series is so well known for in favor of Dark Age of Camelot style RvR. Now, whether the bait-and-switch was intentional or not is entirely a different matter, but it's still dangling the most well recognized IP of the genre in front of fans as the MMO they've been waiting for, and then not delivering what they want. 

 

It's a serious dick move. The IP doesn't lend itself particularly well to the goals they've set out for themselves (I mean come on, I can't even play as an Imperial, my race of choice for both Oblivion and Skyrim) and the features they are promoting were draw enough for anyone even remotely interested in them. They didn't need an established IP to sweeten the deal, they would have bought it if it were as non-descript as orcs, elves and men all want to kill each other.

  StMichael

Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/10
Posts: 188

God said "Vengeance is mine." Don't think to bear his burden lightly.

4/03/13 2:48:20 AM#227
Damn double post.
  Sentnl

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/13
Posts: 79

4/03/13 3:07:42 AM#228
Originally posted by StMichael

What's wrong with my assessment? Elder Scrolls has been a signature sandbox game since Morrowind. Every person who has ever loved a sandbox game has played at least one of the Elder Scrolls games and is familiar with the name. Zenimax, however, has opted not to embrace the sandbox elements the series is so well known for in favor of Dark Age of Camelot style RvR. Now, whether the bait-and-switch was intentional or not is entirely a different matter, but it's still dangling the most well recognized IP of the genre in front of fans as the MMO they've been waiting for, and then not delivering what they want. 

 

It's a serious dick move. The IP doesn't lend itself particularly well to the goals they've set out for themselves (I mean come on, I can't even play as an Imperial, my race of choice for both Oblivion and Skyrim) and the features they are promoting were draw enough for anyone even remotely interested in them. They didn't need an established IP to sweeten the deal, they would have bought it if it were as non-descript as orcs, elves and men all want to kill each other.

Sandbox; I dont think you know what that word means... Oblivion was pushing it, but Skyrim was definitely not a sandbox.

In fact from what we know is confirmed of ESO right now, it has more sandbox elements than Oblivion or Skyram had... So where's your arguement now?

I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.

  Anakami

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 101

4/03/13 6:12:32 AM#229

I think we won't need to worry too much. It's still months until release and we haven't even heard about most of the features in detail yet. A lot can and will change still, due to feedback from various sources. While it is of course interesting to discuss things prior to release, what is happening right now is people attacking other people from different camps for their opinion and view on TESO. Which is a bit pointless unless you are terribly bored ofc ;)

Personally I am rather interested in thinking about solutions to the most important question imo: How can they make the game in a way that most people will enjoy it.

I am very interested to see what their mega server and preference system can do. Right now I only know that it puts you into the same world with people who have also taken the survey and checked certain playstyle preferences. It also tries to put you there with friends from your social networks or the friends list ingame.

I am pretty sure you could use the very same mechanics to also create playgrounds for those who are more interested in the PvE and RP aspect of the game and allow cross faction communication and questing there. I think there is a high probability that an option like that will come in one way or another, at some point, because it is kinda hilarious to emphasize on the social capabilities of the game and then split up guilds and friends who wish to play a particular race and group up, but can't, because they are forced into a faction.

I'll watch the development closely up to release and inthe end they might have created something most of us can enjoy :)

  Sentnl

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/13
Posts: 79

4/03/13 6:50:19 AM#230
Originally posted by Anakami

I am very interested to see what their mega server and preference system can do. Right now I only know that it puts you into the same world with people who have also taken the survey and checked certain playstyle preferences. It also tries to put you there with friends from your social networks or the friends list ingame.

Now there's something I would like specific information about, this "mega server".

I hope it doesn't impede on building fame/infamy across factions in cryodiil.

I hope it doesn't end up being like gw2 where everyone is faceless and nameless...

I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.

  Miblet

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/19/10
Posts: 334

4/03/13 7:05:29 AM#231

So far it has been implied that the megaserver survey matching will be for the PvE areas.

Cyrodil will be handled by their campaign system (think of it as joining a regular MMO server for the PvP zone that you will be tied to until the end of the campaign, with the option to leave at will and join anotherwith a cost).

So you should be able to garner some degree of fame or infamy.  Though be aware if there are a lot of players you will likely be part of the faceless masses unless you are one of the top pvpers in the world (such is the way of modern MMOs and their large playerbases, you are less likely to run into people as frequently).

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 988

4/03/13 11:28:21 AM#232
Originally posted by Sentnl.

I hope it doesn't impede on building fame/infamy across factions in cryodiil.

I hope it doesn't end up being like gw2 where everyone is faceless and nameless...

With their comments regarding faction pride, I'm inclined to believe that they also recognize the necessity of creating specific rivalries between opposing faction members and guilds. Not too worried about it turning into GW2's generic Mists experience.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4155

 
OP  4/03/13 11:37:49 AM#233
Originally posted by Anakami

I think we won't need to worry too much. It's still months until release and we haven't even heard about most of the features in detail yet. A lot can and will change still, due to feedback from various sources. While it is of course interesting to discuss things prior to release, what is happening right now is people attacking other people from different camps for their opinion and view on TESO. Which is a bit pointless unless you are terribly bored ofc ;)

Personally I am rather interested in thinking about solutions to the most important question imo: How can they make the game in a way that most people will enjoy it.

I am very interested to see what their mega server and preference system can do. Right now I only know that it puts you into the same world with people who have also taken the survey and checked certain playstyle preferences. It also tries to put you there with friends from your social networks or the friends list ingame.

I am pretty sure you could use the very same mechanics to also create playgrounds for those who are more interested in the PvE and RP aspect of the game and allow cross faction communication and questing there. I think there is a high probability that an option like that will come in one way or another, at some point, because it is kinda hilarious to emphasize on the social capabilities of the game and then split up guilds and friends who wish to play a particular race and group up, but can't, because they are forced into a faction.

I'll watch the development closely up to release and inthe end they might have created something most of us can enjoy :)

Anything is possible but some things are more plausible than others.

I have to say that it surprises me that someone who argues passionatley about mixing all the races on the basis of lore and consistency with the single player TES games we have known, can so easily wish for an incongrous playground that would be totally inconsistent with the setting of the 3-sided war in this MMO.

That cross-faction playground would be an odd contrivance for game-play purposes only that couldn't be shoe-horned into this lore in any believable way no matter how hard they tried. Oh wait... "...and then the Daedra of Peace touched everyone with his rod and everyone jumped over the shark, took an arrow on the knee, and the war was forgotten..."  yeah, maybe

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

4/03/13 4:49:08 PM#234

I don't fit in either polar opposites as you have characterised them.

I am happy to have three factional PvP and have always said I am happy with it.

I am not happy with central TES elements being fracked to accomodate this - primarily the freedom to explore. However, if Zenimax had done a complete U-turn and removed factional PvP and Cyrodil as a PvP zone I would have declared this as going too far - by far...

Characterising peoples opinions as #1 or #2 and taking no account of the many people one one side or other of the middle, or directly in the middle is ridiculous.

Most people I dare say sit between these opposites - there aren't two large camps here - there are two vocal camps and a load of people between them.

You need a #3 with a wide definition...

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6704

Gaming should be about fun, not gender equality.

4/03/13 4:57:19 PM#235

It would not be inconsistent for people in one faction to temporarily team up with other faction members. Why? Because individuals are not robots or fanatics, atleast not most, so it is conceivable that they would use a temporary truce to their advantage.

Also chatting would not exist? So enemies never speak to each other? Bull. Again, most people are not robots or fanatics. Just because they are in a faction does not stop them from behaving like individuals.

More over, factions existed in Elder Scrolls series so they can exist with your model #2. They just would not be so strict and hardcoded into everything you can do.

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 988

4/03/13 5:06:43 PM#236
Originally posted by Yamota

Also chatting would not exist? So enemies never speak to each other? Bull. Again, most people are not robots or fanatics. Just because they are in a faction does not stop them from behaving like individuals.

I think in this instance chatting is limited to prevent hate tells and players trolling the other faction. We've all played FFA PvP with open chat and have experienced the shit talking that goes with it. Rarely is it fun.

So it's more just a mechanic to prevent griefing, and not at all related to the lore or 'realism'.

  immodium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1405

4/03/13 5:10:51 PM#237
Originally posted by rygard49
Originally posted by Yamota

Also chatting would not exist? So enemies never speak to each other? Bull. Again, most people are not robots or fanatics. Just because they are in a faction does not stop them from behaving like individuals.

I think in this instance chatting is limited to prevent hate tells and players trolling the other faction. We've all played FFA PvP with open chat and have experienced the shit talking that goes with it. Rarely is it fun.

So it's more just a mechanic to prevent griefing, and not at all related to the lore or 'realism'.

Just had an image of Montgomery trolling Rommel during WW2. :)

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4155

 
OP  4/03/13 8:33:40 PM#238
Originally posted by immodium
Originally posted by rygard49
Originally posted by Yamota

Also chatting would not exist? So enemies never speak to each other? Bull. Again, most people are not robots or fanatics. Just because they are in a faction does not stop them from behaving like individuals.

I think in this instance chatting is limited to prevent hate tells and players trolling the other faction. We've all played FFA PvP with open chat and have experienced the shit talking that goes with it. Rarely is it fun.

So it's more just a mechanic to prevent griefing, and not at all related to the lore or 'realism'.

Just had an image of Montgomery trolling Rommel during WW2. :)

That would have been funny.

It's possible that some officers in WW2 might have spoken each other's language, but not many of the grunts would have.

Funny thing about big wars (civil wars excepted.) I can't think of many large conflicts where oposing sides spoke the opposite language. Maybe that's why they fought they couldn't "use your words"

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4155

 
OP  4/03/13 8:41:34 PM#239
Originally posted by Yamota

It would not be inconsistent for people in one faction to temporarily team up with other faction members. Why? Because individuals are not robots or fanatics, atleast not most, so it is conceivable that they would use a temporary truce to their advantage.

Also chatting would not exist? So enemies never speak to each other? Bull. Again, most people are not robots or fanatics. Just because they are in a faction does not stop them from behaving like individuals.

More over, factions existed in Elder Scrolls series so they can exist with your model #2. They just would not be so strict and hardcoded into everything you can do.

Yeah to go on holidays together during the truce perhaps.

I get you man. I have seen enough of your posts over the years. Black is white because you say so and if anyone disputes it you'll just say it again except more aggressively the next time. Reminds me of the rhetoric in a certain US news network that shall remain nameless.

People in large world-wide conflicts don't pal around together during a truce, if there even is a truce. It's human nature. Not something robot zealots do.

It makes no sense in a Tamriel divided into a 3-sided war no matter how much you would like it to.

 

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4155

 
OP  4/03/13 8:50:09 PM#240
Originally posted by Caliburn101

I don't fit in either polar opposites as you have characterised them.

I am happy to have three factional PvP and have always said I am happy with it.

I am not happy with central TES elements being fracked to accomodate this - primarily the freedom to explore. However, if Zenimax had done a complete U-turn and removed factional PvP and Cyrodil as a PvP zone I would have declared this as going too far - by far...

Characterising peoples opinions as #1 or #2 and taking no account of the many people one one side or other of the middle, or directly in the middle is ridiculous.

Most people I dare say sit between these opposites - there aren't two large camps here - there are two vocal camps and a load of people between them.

You need a #3 with a wide definition...

I also would be quite happy with the freedom to go to the other areas. Except I wouldn't call it freedom to explore. I would see it as freedom to invade.

Having the Cyrodiil battles spill over into the other areas would actually be more logical. But then there would have been even more complaints. This time about being forced to PvP.

PS. You think more choices would be better? Perhaps you should take a good hard critical look at the poll in your thread "Identity Crisis," its obvious bias and deliberately limited choices. No matter what, 4 choices and all, you're choosing there between DAoC being well implemented in one choice and 3 choices that range from clumsy integration, too much DAoC ruininng TES or it simply being a cash grab by DAoC2 posing as TES.

As if that wasn't bad enough you resort to melodramatic biased hyperbole to further try to steer the "poll" in your pre-determined direction:  "... how many of the beloved core elements of TES have been compromised by the beloved elements of DAoC."

You coming here and complaining about the limitations of my 2 choices would be hillarious if it wasn't for the fact that you take yourself so seriously. That just makes it sad.

 

 
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