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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Dear ZOS, Please Don't Let Paul Sage Wreck This Game...

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147 posts found
  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

3/29/13 7:48:14 AM#101

Some more questions.

Does your race determine faction pride or your faction?

If you could independently choose race and faction, would you feel less faction pride for the faction you chose?

If after you chose a faction the same rules as currently used (i.e. you are free to travel until you chose a faction, then you would be faction locked and friendly faction area's would be your PvE questing area) how would that change the current dynamic?

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/29/13 7:49:03 AM#102
Originally posted by MyTabbycat

This is Elder Scrolls.

This is NOT DAoC.

The whole faction lock thing upsets many Elder Scrolls fans which will be far more numerous than the DAoC fans that just come along to check out the AvA and don't really care about Elder Scrolls at all.

Any changes that reduce the faction lock is only a good thing in my book.

It has nothing to do with Carebears at all. Stop trying to turn ESO into DAoC2.

Nope, the game is whatever the developers want it to be. Get off the entitlement train.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/29/13 7:55:20 AM#103
Originally posted by Maelwydd

Some more questions.

Does your race determine faction pride or your faction?

Immaterial. The majority will go with whatever they choose first since the choice is often made for them.

If you could independently choose race and faction, would you feel less faction pride for the faction you chose?

Yes. Being able to identify with the other factions is bad. Identifying allows you to sympathize, which is something you do not want when setting up an "us vs them" mentality.

If after you chose a faction the same rules as currently used (i.e. you are free to travel until you chose a faction, then you would be faction locked and friendly faction area's would be your PvE questing area) how would that change the current dynamic?

See above.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  User Deleted
3/29/13 7:58:01 AM#104
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Maelwydd

Some more questions.

Does your race determine faction pride or your faction?

Immaterial. The majority will go with whatever they choose first since the choice is often made for them.

If you could independently choose race and faction, would you feel less faction pride for the faction you chose?

Yes. Being able to identify with the other factions is bad. Identifying allows you to sympathize, which is something you do not want when setting up an "us vs them" mentality.

If after you chose a faction the same rules as currently used (i.e. you are free to travel until you chose a faction, then you would be faction locked and friendly faction area's would be your PvE questing area) how would that change the current dynamic?

See above.

You must be a very simple individual to require someone to identify your targets of hate.

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/29/13 8:02:47 AM#105
Originally posted by Dihoru

You must be a very simple individual to require someone to identify your targets of hate.

Be careful with your idea of superiority, you are talking about pretty much the entirety of the first world. Maybe you should look at the links i posted above too, and that is merely the tip of the iceberg.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

3/29/13 8:05:15 AM#106
Simple surmise of your posts livin....you have a very blinkered view. While watching the video's my overiding thought was...this is probably true for stupid people. Not implying you are stupid yourself but you are reaching and looking too hard for justifications when the simple answer is that it is your OPINION and is not a FACT.
  Stizzled

Tipster

Joined: 9/13/07
Posts: 1073

Kill Your Heroes

3/29/13 8:10:30 AM#107
Originally posted by Qallidexz
Originally posted by Stizzled

I don't understand what the DAoC fans are all riled up about. Most of you will be playing Camelot Unchained, why even worry about ESO? Would it be such a crime if ESO became something that ES fans might enjoy?

 

There aren't enough DAoC fans to fill two games, ZOS would be wise to give up on the heavy PvP focus and just let Camelot Unchained have them. They'd be much more successful if they focused on the massive audience that their chosen IP has anyways.

 

The PvP-community is larger than you think, or larger than you're pretending it is, and either way, they've also proven to be willing to pay $15 a month for a great PvP-oriented game, something which, so far, very few ES fans have been willing to do, who knows how many will subscribe to ESO? I would guess very few. And anyways, they'll just look wishy-washy and stupid, if they try to change their game focus now anyways.

 

There is a very large PvP community, but it's split up amonst several different styles of PvP. Not everyone loves a three faction system and I would wager that many people in the PvP community don't think it's the right PvP design for ESO. And, they may be willing to pay $15 a month, but since we don't know what business model this game will have that's pretty irrelevant.

 

But, that's not what this thread was about. This thread was about the supposed danger of ESO becoming more like ES and less like DAoC. I don't think that any ES fan would have a problem with that and I don't understand why any DAoC fan would either, especially when you consider that there is another, strictly PvP, game being made specifically for them.

 

ZOS needs to give in to the ES community or, as you said, many won't play it. Who will then, once the DAoC fans have left for Camelot Unchained?

 

(I'm assuming that CU will be the better and more popular RvR game, simply because it's not having to make compromises on it's design to fit within it's IP.)

  hayakko

Novice Member

Joined: 3/29/13
Posts: 2

3/29/13 8:11:14 AM#108

I've been a TES fan since Morrowind, but I'm also a fan of sandbox free PvP games such Ultima Online. I love the aspects of exploration and random combat in a freely responsive world where your actions matter and have longing consequences. Having said that, it comes to this: Mage's Guild, Fighter's, Thief's Guild, Dark Brottherhood, etc. These are the only factions I would care to join in ESO, all the rest is machinations and narrow-minded design.

I would be more than pleased if things were inverted as of the current state of affairs, like our toons were allowed to roam freely thru all the areas, quest and PvP in ANY place all along Tamriel. Only when you hit 50 and after having travelled the whole continent you could measure the world view of these 3 factions to come to a decision which one you should support in RvR PvP to conquer Cyrodiil and the emperor throne.

 

/discuss

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/29/13 8:11:23 AM#109
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Simple surmise of your posts livin....you have a very blinkered view. While watching the video's my overiding thought was...this is probably true for stupid people. Not implying you are stupid yourself but you are reaching and looking too hard for justifications when the simple answer is that it is your OPINION and is not a FACT.

So I should trust the random guy on the internet who repeatedly insults anyone who disagrees with them over the "opinion" of mulitple highly successful individuals, including phd's, and the sorts of people companies like Google and Apple consult with. Yep, that makes sooo much logical sense. I know, the data is hard to accept but come on. Like I said, that is just the tip of the iceberg, you can dive into the psychology of it yourself if you want, google is right there afterall.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17522

3/29/13 8:12:36 AM#110
Originally posted by Iselin

I guess that really must be a difficult concept to understand.

 

It's not a difficult concept to understand.

We just don't care.

My sense is that a good many elder scrolls fans want an elder scrolls game. The idea that we are discussing, in earnest, this whole DAoC pvp thing is ludicrous.

Don't get me wrong I love pvp, and as I said to the OP, if you "really dont' want to be carebear open it up". Apparently he thinks faction warfare is more hardcore than the entire server gunning for you. But "whatever".

Having 3 armies contesting for the throne and then having areas of the world not affected by the war isn't really a big deal "for the people who don't care".

The issue here is that we have a group willing to buy into the "story" Zenimax has created in that "you now hate X because we said so". Whereas, many who are  interested in pvp, are probably more interested in "We hate that group because of how they act, what they did, who they attacked in our guild, what they did once they got the throne, etc".

There are people who just want an "Elder Scrolls Game Online" but a contingent of the DAoC crowd is salivating for DAoC 2. So sure, that's how they made it and they are going to do what they want but that's not going to stop others from scratching their head and asking "how did all this DAoC stuff get into my Elder Scrolls".

 

 

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

3/29/13 8:13:37 AM#111
Originally posted by Livnthedream

 

Nope, the game is whatever the developers want it to be. Get off the entitlement train.

Well the difference between a developer in a job and an unemployed one is that the one in a job designs games that people want to play. You can call it entitlement but when you are talking about a consumer then that is a very big consideration. The consumer will not buy something they don't want (or at least rarely) so the developers, if they are any good, will make the product they feel will sell well. And guess what, they are changing the design because it would appear they realise there is a disparity between their vision of what their customerbase want and what they originally thought they wanted.

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

3/29/13 8:15:08 AM#112
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Simple surmise of your posts livin....you have a very blinkered view. While watching the video's my overiding thought was...this is probably true for stupid people. Not implying you are stupid yourself but you are reaching and looking too hard for justifications when the simple answer is that it is your OPINION and is not a FACT.

So I should trust the random guy on the internet who repeatedly insults anyone who disagrees with them over the "opinion" of mulitple highly successful individuals, including phd's, and the sorts of people companies like Google and Apple consult with. Yep, that makes sooo much logical sense. I know, the data is hard to accept but come on. Like I said, that is just the tip of the iceberg, you can dive into the psychology of it yourself if you want, google is right there afterall.

Not my fault the majority of the planet are dumb fucks. But it is still your OPINION that you need race and faction locks to have faction pride. I disagree.

  Lukekini

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/04
Posts: 76

YES!

3/29/13 8:17:33 AM#113

Why do people prefer to be prideful before open minded these days. I would like to at my constructive thoughts to this post, but everyone is too busy trying to one-up eachother. Videos of social interaction and engineering does not convey anything. Anyone can take anything from those videos. FvFvF is there for sure. The option to interact with communication and grouping MIGHT be there. How will it truely effect gameplay? The best examples should probably be taken from games with similar situations.

Stop arguing with eachother and find areas you can agree on or this is a complete and utter waste of your time.

 

Open your mindddd... ;)

- ya I'm here

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

3/29/13 8:19:53 AM#114
Originally posted by hayakko

I've been a TES fan since Morrowind, but I'm also a fan of sandbox free PvP games such Ultima Online. I love the aspects of exploration and random combat in a freely responsive world where your actions matter and have longing consequences. Having said that, it comes to this: Mage's Guild, Fighter's, Thief's Guild, Dark Brottherhood, etc. These are the only factions I would care to join in ESO, all the rest is machinations and narrow-minded design.

I would be more than pleased if things were inverted as of the current state of affairs, like our toons were allowed to roam freely thru all the areas, quest and PvP in ANY place all along Tamriel. Only when you hit 50 and after having travelled the whole continent you could measure the world view of these 3 factions to come to a decision which one you should support in RvR PvP to conquer Cyrodiil and the emperor throne.

 

/discuss

Good points and I wish they had designed the game without so much restrictions in place and more like your examples. But the good news is they are gradually moving more towards an open game rather then the narrow design of DAOC. While I would love to think that is because of the many people who have stated their displeasure on the design I suspect it is more to do with their internal testing during Alpha and Beta and the feedback they have received.

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 2147

3/29/13 8:26:16 AM#115
Originally posted by Stizzled

But, that's not what this thread was about. This thread was about the supposed danger of ESO becoming more like ES and less like DAoC. I don't think that any ES fan would have a problem with that and I don't understand why any DAoC fan would either, especially when you consider that there is another, strictly PvP, game being made specifically for them.

This, and

Originally posted by Sovrath

My sense is that a good many elder scrolls fans want an elder scrolls game. The idea that we are discussing, in earnest, this whole DAoC pvp thing is ludicrous.

   ...

There are people who just want an "Elder Scrolls Game Online" but a contingent of the DAoC crowd is salivating for DAoC 2. So sure, that's how they made it and they are going to do what they want but that's not going to stop others from scratching their head and asking "how did all this DAoC stuff get into my Elder Scrolls".

this :) I wrote similar before, and I'm pretty sure a lot of ES fans would agree as well.

 

Edit: and to say "Get off the entitlement train" for those who are indeed asking how all these DAoC crap got into their ES game called Elder Scrolls Online... well, that's a bit cheap I think :)

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/29/13 8:33:03 AM#116
Originally posted by Maelwydd

Well the difference between a developer in a job and an unemployed one is that the one in a job designs games that people want to play. You can call it entitlement but when you are talking about a consumer then that is a very big consideration. The consumer will not buy something they don't want (or at least rarely) so the developers, if they are any good, will make the product they feel will sell well. And guess what, they are changing the design because it would appear they realise there is a disparity between their vision of what their customerbase want and what they originally thought they wanted.

Very common misconception. You will never know the actual reason why any of those changes are made (unless someone squeals, which will not happen if they wish to remain in the industry). Whether it was something hotly debated amongst the dev team itself and was overturned by one or more producers, or whether the backlash was so high that corperate decided to step in. It would not be the first title that either has happened on. Hell, it could be that was entirely the plan all along and they released misinformation to stir buzz. Welcome to how marketing works. I mean the metrics rather often show that gamers do much different than they say they are going to, and that you cannot judge the game based on forums. At best forums work as an early warning system. That is what happens when the tiniest of percents visit forums in the first place.

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Not my fault the majority of the planet are dumb fucks. But it is still your OPINION that you need race and faction locks to have faction pride. I disagree.

The planet (which is a hilarious statement btw) is not "dumb". At best you can say ignorant. Even then the first world is getting progressively smarter. Whether the game is going to be right for you is pretty silly considering the sheer number that never touch a forum and will buy the game. I mean even if you overrexagerated and said there are 1,000 unique users on this subforum arguing its a tiny drop compared to the 1,000,000+ that will buy in the first month, and no its not even a representative margin based on ever bit of data ever collected. That is not opinion.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  User Deleted
3/29/13 8:33:40 AM#117
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Dihoru

You must be a very simple individual to require someone to identify your targets of hate.

Be careful with your idea of superiority, you are talking about pretty much the entirety of the first world. Maybe you should look at the links i posted above too, and that is merely the tip of the iceberg.

If by entirety of the first world you mean the dregs politicians dupe to get reelected and who cannot form a coherent train of logic then by all means yes that is the first world, thank god there are billions of people in the 2nd and 3rd who at least know better ^^.

 

Now if you want to continue acting like you're somehow part of a bigger group of people than you are, this isn't a  pre-1960s world mind you, go right ahead but if you want to use that same argument to push your own narrowminded views on others then prepare for a little wakeup call (christ even the US is waking up to the idea that getting their target identified by people with sketchy motives is not the way to go).

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/29/13 8:36:09 AM#118
Originally posted by Po_gg

Edit: and to say "Get off the entitlement train" for those who are indeed asking how all these DAoC crap got into their ES game called Elder Scrolls Online... well, that's a bit cheap I think :)

You would have a point if it were the first ip to change up "traditional" elements of gameplay for a new audience. Its not. It's not even the first game in THIS ip to do that. You attempting to dictate to the creators what the game should be when it is them making it is entirely entitlement.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/29/13 8:43:14 AM#119
Originally posted by Dihoru

If by entirety of the first world you mean the dregs politicians dupe to get reelected and who cannot form a coherent train of logic then by all means yes that is the first world, thank god there are billions of people in the 2nd and 3rd who at least know better ^^.

 

Now if you want to continue acting like you're somehow part of a bigger group of people than you are, this isn't a  pre-1960s world mind you, go right ahead but if you want to use that same argument to push your own narrowminded views on others then prepare for a little wakeup call (christ even the US is waking up to the idea that getting their target identified by people with sketchy motives is not the way to go).

What narrow viewpoint? Its a varifiable fact. You can make the argument that correlation does not mean causation on a single, or even very limited set of data, but its repeated constantly. Choice is good, more choice is not better. That is a rather simple concept that is pretty easy to identify no matter how much you want to disagree with it. If you really have another viewpoint based on data, feel free to share it. I showed you mine, show me yours.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  User Deleted
3/29/13 8:55:25 AM#120
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Dihoru

If by entirety of the first world you mean the dregs politicians dupe to get reelected and who cannot form a coherent train of logic then by all means yes that is the first world, thank god there are billions of people in the 2nd and 3rd who at least know better ^^.

 

Now if you want to continue acting like you're somehow part of a bigger group of people than you are, this isn't a  pre-1960s world mind you, go right ahead but if you want to use that same argument to push your own narrowminded views on others then prepare for a little wakeup call (christ even the US is waking up to the idea that getting their target identified by people with sketchy motives is not the way to go).

What narrow viewpoint? Its a varifiable fact. You can make the argument that correlation does not mean causation on a single, or even very limited set of data, but its repeated constantly. Choice is good, more choice is not better. That is a rather simple concept that is pretty easy to identify no matter how much you want to disagree with it. If you really have another viewpoint based on data, feel free to share it. I showed you mine, show me yours.

The more choice the better, if within your culture you dislike choice that does not mean it is a universal constant, true there's a very sizeable portion of the population which due to one reason or another won't like a total freedom of choice but to say that number is big enough to constitute a majority of the population is...laughable because the trend towards better education on all continents has given rise to an increase in the desire for choices. It is only the more base elements of a society which requires hand holding and being told what to think, eat, breath and hate and those base elements more often than not are a product of societal pressure than evolution.

 

To put it even more bluntly: If things were as you stated why in recent years have so many things suddenly and irrevocably shifted despite your mindset that more choice is worse than less? (these shifts are because people have chosen things which were outside the normal set of choices given to them by the status quo within their geographical/societal/political area).

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