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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Dear ZOS, Please Don't Let Paul Sage Wreck This Game...

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147 posts found
  Eladi

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/06
Posts: 1047

3/29/13 3:12:18 AM#61
To me it sounds like "pvpers" wining about something that ain't impacting pvp at all. the PvP zone stays faction locked, you enter it you are part of a single faction and you will fight against rl friends if they are in the other faction. faction pride stays exactly the same only the change will allow people to meet up whit friends and play pve stuff in the other factions pve zones.

Its utterly ridicules to even have a form of racial locks in the first place in a Elder Scrolls games.

Now I can go PvE, RP in all zones and Enjoy PvP. more content and choice.

I personaly hope they will disband any form of racial lock and make factions based on location and believe rather then races.
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3742

3/29/13 3:20:39 AM#62

I gues that those who don't understand that crossfaction fluffy grouping and chatting trivializes the game just won't understand it. There's nothing "hardcore PVP" about it, just a lack of integrity in a factional game.

Here's how it works:

Factions at war...yes or no?

If no, then anything goes and neither faction lockout nor chat restrictions make any sense whatsoever.

If yes, well then do it with integrity and don't trivialize the factional warfare by having friendly little picnics with the enemy in the PVE areas.

I guess that really must be a difficult concept to understand.

I mean for pete's sake it's not as if these guys are inventing factions. Many MMOs hvae factions with no cross-faction grouping or chatting. I really have to wonder if this forum is full of MMO virgins.

  Qallidexz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/12
Posts: 269

 
OP  3/29/13 3:23:38 AM#63
Originally posted by Anakami

I don't really get all the "Doom and Gloom!" cries from the more extreme PvP camp. It's PvE changes that won't really affect your PvP experience.

Assuming you have no interest in PvE at all -at least that's the tone I get from most of the "hardcore" pvp people- you will probably jump into the PvP part of the game at the earliest convenience, which is from what I heard, very early, maybe even the moment you step outside the tutorial zone.

So, you will be in Cyrodill, a huge map where you can pvp all you want. You will never know the enemy you see, you won't be able to talk to them, you will have constant, endless war, just like you wanted it.

So...how exactly does anything regarding the PvE aspect of the game, which is forever outside of Cyrodill, bother you?

Seems illogical to me, tbh.

 

It's not 100% seperate like that, the whole game will basically stop caring that factions exist if everybody is getting to know eachother, picking flowers together, etc. PvP'ers and PvE'ers will lose any sense that the enemy is anything other than brainless mobs, and so goodbye PvP.

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 1963

3/29/13 3:24:08 AM#64
Originally posted by Arglebargle

As always:

 

It's called Elder Scrolls Online, not Dark Age of Camelot 2.   They were trying to get the huge TES fanbase into the game, and as such they have to actually pay attention to the interests of the Elder Scrolls fans.  If they'd done their game with a new world and campaign, no one would be here complaining.   Of course, they might not sell nearly as many copies, hence the leveraging of the Elder Scrolls world.

There are many interested in the game who don't care about manufactured 'faction pride', or the other shoehorned-in PVP aspects.   We'll see how much of a strategic error that turns out to be.  Failure of vision, imo.  The game should have really used something like the Vanguard model for its design.   While it wouldn't appeal to the DAoC crew, it would definitely fit the fans of Morrowind, Skyrim, et al.  

Very much this.

I mostly gave up on the game when daocdude took charge of it and start to make a DAoC2 upon the attention wave of the ES IP. And while I'm still not convinced, now after the recent news it's a high chance that I will buy ESO and at least try it out.

 

I'm with Phry on the numbers :) OP complaining that daoc lovers would ditch the game. Riight. All the 200k? :)

I don't want to waste time to dig up numbers, but Oblivion alone was sold ~4million (without the pirated versions, I think I red somewhere back then that the real player number was somewhere around 5.5-6million). Do the math... and yep, there will be some Camelot game as I heard, I'm pretty sure they will love to accept those 200k :)

  Vyllyn

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 10

3/29/13 3:32:39 AM#65
ok let me set the record stright sence everyone is only looking at this post from massivle, who has some wrong information, once u hit lvl 50 yes you can go to the other factions zone, but it is a lvl 50+ zone and only members from your own faction will be there too... so stop screaming about stuff that isnt even going to be in the game and look into shit a bit more befor u start a flame post that gets alot of heat based on wrong informations.
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3742

3/29/13 3:41:54 AM#66
Originally posted by Vyllyn
ok let me set the record stright sence everyone is only looking at this post from massivle, who has some wrong information, once u hit lvl 50 yes you can go to the other factions zone, but it is a lvl 50+ zone and only members from your own faction will be there too... so stop screaming about stuff that isnt even going to be in the game and look into shit a bit more befor u start a flame post that gets alot of heat based on wrong informations.

 I'm guessing you didn't watch the video I linked?

It's not a "post from Massively." It's an article from Massively where the author claimed the game's creative director, Paul Sage, told him that the 50+ adventures into the other zones would include chatting and grouping with players from the other factions.

Every other site said the opposite: you will only see, chat with or group with your own faction.

So the original writer from Massively went back to Paul Sage at PAX and now claims that Paul Sage reconfirmed the 50+ bit and implied that they're now thinking about doing it right from level 1.

Mind you what the guy is reporting is what he wants to see happen--idiotic though it may be. He's not exactly unbiased nor is he providing any concrete evidence.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3742

3/29/13 3:45:14 AM#67
Originally posted by Po_gg
Originally posted by Arglebargle

As always:

 

It's called Elder Scrolls Online, not Dark Age of Camelot 2.   They were trying to get the huge TES fanbase into the game, and as such they have to actually pay attention to the interests of the Elder Scrolls fans.  If they'd done their game with a new world and campaign, no one would be here complaining.   Of course, they might not sell nearly as many copies, hence the leveraging of the Elder Scrolls world.

There are many interested in the game who don't care about manufactured 'faction pride', or the other shoehorned-in PVP aspects.   We'll see how much of a strategic error that turns out to be.  Failure of vision, imo.  The game should have really used something like the Vanguard model for its design.   While it wouldn't appeal to the DAoC crew, it would definitely fit the fans of Morrowind, Skyrim, et al.  

Very much this.

I mostly gave up on the game when daocdude took charge of it and start to make a DAoC2 upon the attention wave of the ES IP. And while I'm still not convinced, now after the recent news it's a high chance that I will buy ESO and at least try it out.

 

I'm with Phry on the numbers :) OP complaining that daoc lovers would ditch the game. Riight. All the 200k? :)

I don't want to waste time to dig up numbers, but Oblivion alone was sold ~4million (without the pirated versions, I think I red somewhere back then that the real player number was somewhere around 5.5-6million). Do the math... and yep, there will be some Camelot game as I heard, I'm pretty sure they will love to accept those 200k :)

 In a sick way, I almost hope you get the POS MMO you're designing in your mind. That would be truly just.

  DeniZg

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/29/12
Posts: 498

3/29/13 3:47:37 AM#68
Originally posted by Vyllyn
 once u hit lvl 50 yes you can go to the other factions zone, but it is a lvl 50+ zone and only members from your own faction will be there too..

If that's how the game will turn out, that will be the most ridicolous design decision ever made. I would rather have enemy zones locked, than walk into ghost towns.

Anyway,  IMHO cross-faction communication (perhaps not grouping) for the sake of ES lore should have priority, instead of no cross-faction communication for the sake of some silly cross-faction pride to please couple hundered of DaoC fans.

You can have cross faction pride even with cross-faction communication. ES lore had many opposing factions/groups which were able to communicate and still get to fight each other.

 

  Qallidexz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/12
Posts: 269

 
OP  3/29/13 4:01:57 AM#69
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Po_gg
Originally posted by Arglebargle

As always:

 

It's called Elder Scrolls Online, not Dark Age of Camelot 2.   They were trying to get the huge TES fanbase into the game, and as such they have to actually pay attention to the interests of the Elder Scrolls fans.  If they'd done their game with a new world and campaign, no one would be here complaining.   Of course, they might not sell nearly as many copies, hence the leveraging of the Elder Scrolls world.

There are many interested in the game who don't care about manufactured 'faction pride', or the other shoehorned-in PVP aspects.   We'll see how much of a strategic error that turns out to be.  Failure of vision, imo.  The game should have really used something like the Vanguard model for its design.   While it wouldn't appeal to the DAoC crew, it would definitely fit the fans of Morrowind, Skyrim, et al.  

Very much this.

I mostly gave up on the game when daocdude took charge of it and start to make a DAoC2 upon the attention wave of the ES IP. And while I'm still not convinced, now after the recent news it's a high chance that I will buy ESO and at least try it out.

 

I'm with Phry on the numbers :) OP complaining that daoc lovers would ditch the game. Riight. All the 200k? :)

I don't want to waste time to dig up numbers, but Oblivion alone was sold ~4million (without the pirated versions, I think I red somewhere back then that the real player number was somewhere around 5.5-6million). Do the math... and yep, there will be some Camelot game as I heard, I'm pretty sure they will love to accept those 200k :)

 In a sick way, I almost hope you get the POS MMO you're designing in your mind. That would be truly just.

 

I know rite? Part of me has been wanting these Elder Scrolls players to get EXACTLY what they're asking for in every way... Then, of course, the $300 million investment would be lost, and the future ES games would suffer in quality, or ZeniMax Media would go bankrupt entirely, and no more Elder Scrolls games... Ah... that would be rich. NO better yet, they LOSE the investment, and are forced to sell the Elder Scrolls IP to...Blizzard Entertainment! Ahh, that would be rich. heh 

  Maelwydd

Elite Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1102

3/29/13 4:06:54 AM#70

Any of you guys blaming the changes made to the game design on the "Small minority of forum complainers" think that perhaps, just perhaps their design is changing due to Alpha and Beta testing where they are realising which parts of their original design are working and can be improoved upon and which parts don't work and need changing?

 

Guess not, you are too blinkered to actually take a moment to think about these changes clearly.

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 1963

3/29/13 4:10:11 AM#71
Originally posted by Iselin

 In a sick way, I almost hope you get the POS MMO you're designing in your mind. That would be truly just.

I hope as well (I know what you ment, but I really would be happy about it :) ). Maybe it's hard to understand from a daoc point-of-view, but a big chunk of ES fans are only wants from ESO what exactly the name is, and Elder Scrolls game, Online. (I'm not even sure that they'd want an mmo of it since a lot of ES players don't play mmo's.)

Of course there's no chance ESO will be such a game, though every bit of change from DAoC2 towards ES is good in my eyes. It's only me (an ES fan since Arena, and never liked DAoC) but I think these changes are welcomed by a much bigger population in the ES part than the whole daoc-craved group :)

  User Deleted
3/29/13 4:15:00 AM#72

Once again, so called 'hardcore' PvPers attempt to ruin PvE for the sake of their own little minority part of the playerbase. Hopefully Zenimax realizes that pissing off potentially millions of PvE players isn't worth satisfying a hundred thousand PvPers.

Plus you know, this isn't DAoC 2. This is TESO. You want true faction PvP, wait for Camelot Unchained. Or go play a game where you can make your own factions. Or hell just go play DAoC, it's obviously what you want.

Furthermore, being able to communicate with the other faction opens up whole new possibilities, such as spying. Isn't making PVP content more dynamic a good thing?

Games like this are carried by their PvE, not their PvP.

  Duracri

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/11
Posts: 155

3/29/13 4:19:52 AM#73
Sounds different and not what I was expecting so I can't judge it till I try it myself.
  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2660

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

3/29/13 4:23:24 AM#74
Originally posted by Iselin

I gues that those who don't understand that crossfaction fluffy grouping and chatting trivializes the game just won't understand it. There's nothing "hardcore PVP" about it, just a lack of integrity in a factional game.

Here's how it works:

Factions at war...yes or no?

If no, then anything goes and neither faction lockout nor chat restrictions make any sense whatsoever.

If yes, well then do it with integrity and don't trivialize the factional warfare by having friendly little picnics with the enemy in the PVE areas.

I guess that really must be a difficult concept to understand.

I mean for pete's sake it's not as if these guys are inventing factions. Many MMOs hvae factions with no cross-faction grouping or chatting. I really have to wonder if this forum is full of MMO virgins.

THIS and only a true fan of DAoC RvR will understand that the core concept of what made that game great was the pure unadultered hatred of the other 2 realms, not a single game has ever grasped the concept that Factions are and should always be at war and no amount of carebear mechanics will ever change that.  Sadly ESO jsut became another game in a long line of games to not understand that concept and it shocks me more knowing that Matt Firor let this happened.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Qallidexz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/12
Posts: 269

 
OP  3/29/13 4:36:36 AM#75
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Iselin

I gues that those who don't understand that crossfaction fluffy grouping and chatting trivializes the game just won't understand it. There's nothing "hardcore PVP" about it, just a lack of integrity in a factional game.

Here's how it works:

Factions at war...yes or no?

If no, then anything goes and neither faction lockout nor chat restrictions make any sense whatsoever.

If yes, well then do it with integrity and don't trivialize the factional warfare by having friendly little picnics with the enemy in the PVE areas.

I guess that really must be a difficult concept to understand.

I mean for pete's sake it's not as if these guys are inventing factions. Many MMOs hvae factions with no cross-faction grouping or chatting. I really have to wonder if this forum is full of MMO virgins.

THIS and only a true fan of DAoC RvR will understand that the core concept of what made that game great was the pure unadultered hatred of the other 2 realms, not a single game has ever grasped the concept that Factions are and should always be at war and no amount of carebear mechanics will ever change that.  Sadly ESO jsut became another game in a long line of games to not understand that concept and it shocks me more knowing that Matt Firor let this happened.

 

Yea, if this truly is the case, if they truly are backstabbing their entire PvP fanbase like this, and Matt is letting it happen by not leaving the company, then it's safe to say that his fans will never trust him again. And with good reason.

  User Deleted
3/29/13 4:45:41 AM#76
TESO PvE ,player can attack monsters and monsters can attack players. TESO PvP ,players must join environment, join some area first like asking from a girl "can i dance with you?" ,even NPCs have more freedom than players on that kind of system. imagine Conan the Barbarian films with those systems in place hehee. next step will be that monsters will ask from players if you allow them to attack you a little. Edit: and no way Conan ,you are not going to that Doom place,because your level is not high enough and your race choice is wrong,and when you maybe can, there wont be anyone there because you dont want to see them and they dont want to see you, -Conan "but" -Voice "no buts C,we have perfect areas for you and your friends where you can do dungeons and stuff.
  Maelwydd

Elite Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1102

3/29/13 5:02:09 AM#77

Does EVE have faction pride?

While I don't like the game personally (I do think the design is great though) that seems to have the current 'Best PvP' title. Factions in EVE are totally player generated and player run with each faction deciding what their goal is. Faction pride is certainly present in EVE and there isn't even the slightest hint of any faction locks.

So I ask those that say faction locks are essential for faction pride WHY do you think it is essential when other games PROVE it isn't?

Because to me it seems you are unable to get beyond your experiences in DAOC and you think the DOAC model with faction locks is the best way simply because you lack a broad experience of other PvP games.

  immodium

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1271

3/29/13 5:10:25 AM#78
Originally posted by Maelwydd

Does EVE have faction pride?

While I don't like the game personally (I do think the design is great though) that seems to have the current 'Best PvP' title. Factions in EVE are totally player generated and player run with each faction deciding what their goal is. Faction pride is certainly present in EVE and there isn't even the slightest hint of any faction locks.

So I ask those that say faction locks are essential for faction pride WHY do you think it is essential when other games PROVE it isn't?

Because to me it seems you are unable to get beyond your experiences in DAOC and you think the DOAC model with faction locks is the best way simply because you lack a broad experience of other PvP games.

EvE is a brutal PvP game. If you go to a section owned by a faction they will annihilate you. I get impression from people unhappy with faction lock is that they can't explore the whole of Tamriel unharmed.

If EvE was a PvE game, faction pride would be nonexistent.

 

EDIT: Faction = Player run Corps.

  DeniZg

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/29/12
Posts: 498

3/29/13 5:10:34 AM#79
Originally posted by Maelwydd

Does EVE have faction pride?

While I don't like the game personally (I do think the design is great though) that seems to have the current 'Best PvP' title. Factions in EVE are totally player generated and player run with each faction deciding what their goal is. Faction pride is certainly present in EVE and there isn't even the slightest hint of any faction locks.

So I ask those that say faction locks are essential for faction pride WHY do you think it is essential when other games PROVE it isn't?

Because to me it seems you are unable to get beyond your experiences in DAOC and you think the DOAC model with faction locks is the best way simply because you lack a broad experience of other PvP games.

Why don't you just stop making sense and let DaoC lovers keep rolling?

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/29/13 5:12:18 AM#80
Originally posted by Maelwydd

Does EVE have faction pride?

While I don't like the game personally (I do think the design is great though) that seems to have the current 'Best PvP' title. Factions in EVE are totally player generated and player run with each faction deciding what their goal is. Faction pride is certainly present in EVE and there isn't even the slightest hint of any faction locks.

So I ask those that say faction locks are essential for faction pride WHY do you think it is essential when other games PROVE it isn't?

Because to me it seems you are unable to get beyond your experiences in DAOC and you think the DOAC model with faction locks is the best way simply because you lack a broad experience of other PvP games.

Faction pride does not exist in Eve. You have miss identified what that means. Wars are not faught between Amarr and Caldarri for example because they are seen as meaningless by the playerbase.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

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