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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » The success of EQ advancement.

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142 posts found
  osiriszoran

Novice Member

Joined: 11/29/11
Posts: 87

4/01/13 1:37:00 PM#81
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Quirhid
Mindless grind and spawncamping? -No thank you.

 Absolutely not!  We'd never want to hinder your "me me me" mindset now would we?

Nice strawman you've built there.

 I'm still right, carebears and the mindless drone consumers have destroyed the mmo market.

No, the mmo market is larger and more profitable than ever and more gamers are enjoying the MMORPG genre than ever before.

Your particular niche in the greater MMO market may not be popular or as successful, but it still exists (which you should be thankful for).

This is all just yet another "waaa I hate that other people have nice things that they like and I don't!" post.

#34287634781 I've seen on this website.

yeah .. if the MMO market is "destroyed" .. then what was i having fun with last night? A zombie?

By destroyed he means there is a bunch of crappy F2P games flooding the market that won't hold the majority of peoples attention for very long.

There isn't a mmorpg currently out that captures all the essence of a perfect MMORPG (sandbox with themepark elements, balanced pvp, in depth crafting with changing resource location/quality, relatively bug free and hacker free, meaningful end game content that is player influenced, player housing, sieging, all with good graphics and a great UI).

  Zorgo

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2213

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

4/01/13 1:40:53 PM#82
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by koboldfodder

Ah, but it wasn't mindless spawn camping.  In original EQ you had to group up to survive, dungeons were contested and there was even more action if you were on a PvP server.  Plus, the main part of that game was not the AA system it was the sense of community that existed because you were a part of something bigger rather than being the solo hero.

 

If you think EQ was nothing more than mindless dungeon grinding, you probably did not even play it.

100% this

The guy never played EQ.

If he is wrong, explain this:

/ooc Camp Check!

 

  Acidon

Elite Member

Joined: 9/09/05
Posts: 725

Permafried

4/01/13 1:43:29 PM#83
Originally posted by Lonzo

Why all these Quest games? With leveling by questing you are limited to just ONE way of leveling. Back in the days with EQ there where leveling groups everywhere in every dungeon and in every zone. It was just good old dungeon crawling. And the few quests seem very important and meaningful....

 

I miss those days...

 

We're certainly talking about the EQ that was, not the EQ that lives today, but I agree with you.

You either grouped up in a good spawn location, or (if you were able), you could camp 1 or 2 x 28 minute spawns yourself for hours on end and maybe level every 2 or 3 days (in the later levels).  And the quests that were available to us, the ones we discovered, were truly epic.  That word is thrown around a lot these days, but they were epic.  Hell, they were epic by definition.

 

Some of you may say, "just go back".  Well you can't.  They dumbed down the game to the point it's just a shell of its former self.

 

Playing: EverQuest, RiFT, Defiance, APB:Reloaded
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  GreenHell

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 1342

4/01/13 1:46:02 PM#84
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Quirhid
Mindless grind and spawncamping? -No thank you.

 Absolutely not!  We'd never want to hinder your "me me me" mindset now would we?

Nice strawman you've built there.

 I'm still right, carebears and the mindless drone consumers have destroyed the mmo market.

No, the mmo market is larger and more profitable than ever and more gamers are enjoying the MMORPG genre than ever before.

Your particular niche in the greater MMO market may not be popular or as successful, but it still exists (which you should be thankful for).

This is all just yet another "waaa I hate that other people have nice things that they like and I don't!" post.

#34287634781 I've seen on this website.

This.

Some people do not want to face the facts that what they like is not popular. So we get the "carebears and mindless drones" crap that these people spew up constantly.

The MMO market has not been destroyed. Just the type of game that you like has. The best part is you blame people who are playing games that they enjoy for your game not being created. You fail to see the obvious. Your style of game is not being made because developers want a chance at making money. You are niche. The casual player is the majority.

 

 

  osiriszoran

Novice Member

Joined: 11/29/11
Posts: 87

4/01/13 1:55:43 PM#85
Originally posted by GreenHell
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Quirhid
Mindless grind and spawncamping? -No thank you.

 Absolutely not!  We'd never want to hinder your "me me me" mindset now would we?

Nice strawman you've built there.

 I'm still right, carebears and the mindless drone consumers have destroyed the mmo market.

No, the mmo market is larger and more profitable than ever and more gamers are enjoying the MMORPG genre than ever before.

Your particular niche in the greater MMO market may not be popular or as successful, but it still exists (which you should be thankful for).

This is all just yet another "waaa I hate that other people have nice things that they like and I don't!" post.

#34287634781 I've seen on this website.

This.

Some people do not want to face the facts that what they like is not popular. So we get the "carebears and mindless drones" crap that these people spew up constantly.

The MMO market has not been destroyed. Just the type of game that you like has. The best part is you blame people who are playing games that they enjoy for your game not being created. You fail to see the obvious. Your style of game is not being made because developers want a chance at making money. You are niche. The casual player is the majority.

 

 

Yes, logging in for 20 mins to run a dungeon, collect your daily loot quests. then not log back in until a raid time is very RPG. MMOARCADE is the new type of game people are loving which is ok if thats what they want. However, dont hate on true mmorpg vets who see past the shallowness of the wow clones.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19928

4/01/13 1:57:53 PM#86
Originally posted by Acidon
 

 

We're certainly talking about the EQ that was, not the EQ that lives today, but I agree with you.

You either grouped up in a good spawn location, or (if you were able), you could camp 1 or 2 x 28 minute spawns yourself for hours on end and maybe level every 2 or 3 days (in the later levels).  And the quests that were available to us, the ones we discovered, were truly epic.  That word is thrown around a lot these days, but they were epic.  Hell, they were epic by definition.

 

Some of you may say, "just go back".  Well you can't.  They dumbed down the game to the point it's just a shell of its former self.

 

Wait .. not asking people to wait 28 min for a spawn for hours is "dumbing down"? Wasting people time is "dumbing down"?

If so, i am more than happy to play "dumbed down" games. I don't want to play a game where you actualy play every 28 min. I think the devs also figure out most don't like that.

Most leisure time is more precious than that .. and i want actual entertainment, not wasting 28 min in between small amount of easy combat.

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2459

World > Quest Progression

4/01/13 2:05:00 PM#87
The great news for everyone is that since quest based themeparks (not derogatory) have played themselves out for the most part we're seeing niche games sprout up trying to be different. I should clarify, niche MMORPGs.

Why it's great everyone is that since most quest based themeparks out there have a F2P option continuing to add more titles will only spread the money that much thinner. TESO will shake things up though no matter what payment model they go with.

Likewise those that want something different or in some cases something distantly familiar will be happy to see one of the many upcoming MMORPGs like Pathfinder Online or Camelot Unchained.
  User Deleted
4/01/13 2:10:26 PM#88
Originally posted by Lonzo

Why all these Quest games? With leveling by questing you are limited to just ONE way of leveling. Back in the days with EQ there where leveling groups everywhere in every dungeon and in every zone. It was just good old dungeon crawling. And the few quests seem very important and meaningful....

 

I miss those days...

I think maybe you need to take off those glasses.  The quests back then were no more important or meaningful.  They were just less advertised.  Like you'll pick up a crapload of orc bones and vendor them until realizing that there is some guy who actually collects them for more xp.  It was a quest, just poorly advertised.

As far as having just one way of leveling, that existed back then as well.  Your only reliable method to level was to grind mobs, which meant camping at a spawn point and killing whatever popped up ever 45 seconds, until you gained a few levels and move to another spawn point.  You could do this in groups to make the process a easier, if not too much faster.

You can still do that in newer games if you'd like.  No one is forcing you to do the quests.

  osiriszoran

Novice Member

Joined: 11/29/11
Posts: 87

4/01/13 2:10:53 PM#89
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Acidon
 

 

We're certainly talking about the EQ that was, not the EQ that lives today, but I agree with you.

You either grouped up in a good spawn location, or (if you were able), you could camp 1 or 2 x 28 minute spawns yourself for hours on end and maybe level every 2 or 3 days (in the later levels).  And the quests that were available to us, the ones we discovered, were truly epic.  That word is thrown around a lot these days, but they were epic.  Hell, they were epic by definition.

 

Some of you may say, "just go back".  Well you can't.  They dumbed down the game to the point it's just a shell of its former self.

 

Wait .. not asking people to wait 28 min for a spawn for hours is "dumbing down"? Wasting people time is "dumbing down"?

If so, i am more than happy to play "dumbed down" games. I don't want to play a game where you actualy play every 28 min. I think the devs also figure out most don't like that.

Most leisure time is more precious than that .. and i want actual entertainment, not wasting 28 min in between small amount of easy combat.

I think this just Nostalgia talking for people. Honestly, a perfect MMORPG would have instanced dungeons as well as open air dungeons. Why cant there be both? 

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6777

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

4/01/13 2:13:02 PM#90
Originally posted by Quirhid
Mindless grind and spawncamping? -No thank you.

When you run back n forth from npc to where you are sent on an errand,is that mindless?You bet it is ,even more mindless becuase yo uare doiong absolutely nothing except press the arrow keys for direction.If you think pushing direction keys is fun,you can still do that in a camp.

FFX iis the game that actually evolved,all these other games have taken concepts and just try to eliminate any game design or any effort.You do not get credit for evolving game play by doing less work designing your game.

A really good analogy to game design...

Quests are errands and this is how they operate in most games.

Your mom wants you to go get some milk and a loaf of bread.However gamers are lazy and don't like to think,so MOM is going ahead of you and laying out some bread crumbs for you to follow.

Ok so now you come back that whole time running back,you feel like you have become a MUCH more experienced HOCKEY player,so your stick skills and passing and skating skills all go up,all because you went to go get that loaf of bread and milk.SO upon arrival Mom gives you experience to all hockey skills.

See how ridiculous that is??Well that is exactly what quests are doing.

Game design is actually disrespecting the gamers intelligence and not by a little,by a LOT !.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  User Deleted
4/01/13 2:32:09 PM#91
Originally posted by Wizardry
Originally posted by Quirhid
Mindless grind and spawncamping? -No thank you.

When you run back n forth from npc to where you are sent on an errand,is that mindless?You bet it is ,even more mindless becuase yo uare doiong absolutely nothing except press the arrow keys for direction.If you think pushing direction keys is fun,you can still do that in a camp.

FFX iis the game that actually evolved,all these other games have taken concepts and just try to eliminate any game design or any effort.You do not get credit for evolving game play by doing less work designing your game.

A really good analogy to game design...

Quests are errands and this is how they operate in most games.

Your mom wants you to go get some milk and a loaf of bread.However gamers are lazy and don't like to think,so MOM is going ahead of you and laying out some bread crumbs for you to follow.

Ok so now you come back that whole time running back,you feel like you have become a MUCH more experienced HOCKEY player,so your stick skills and passing and skating skills all go up,all because you went to go get that loaf of bread and milk.SO upon arrival Mom gives you experience to all hockey skills.

See how ridiculous that is??Well that is exactly what quests are doing.

Game design is actually disrespecting the gamers intelligence and not by a little,by a LOT !.

 

For what it's worth, I like the "midless" travel time running to and from NPC's.  It makes the world feel at list a little big bigger, and gives me a chance to look around at things rather than ignore anything i can't interact with.

I hated when WoW started streamlining quests to the point where sometimes you don't even have to turn it back in.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19928

4/01/13 2:38:29 PM#92
Originally posted by osiriszoran
 

I think this just Nostalgia talking for people. Honestly, a perfect MMORPG would have instanced dungeons as well as open air dungeons. Why cant there be both? 

There *can* be both. The question is whether they will be fun. The problem with EQ is that:

- static spawn point with long time in-between spawns

- people camp them .. so it is boring, and easy (the fights are way easier with less combat mechanics than modern games).

- small number of mobs each time you fight

Instanced dungeons provide a much better (for me, obviously and many other) gaming experiences. Can open air dungeon do the same? I have not seen one i like yet .. but i won't say 100% for sure in the future.

But i won't play a game that requires me to wait 28 min (or even 10min, or even 5 min) to kill static spawn, one by one.

 

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2459

World > Quest Progression

4/01/13 2:51:30 PM#93
I think knowing everyone was in the same "world" lent to the feeling of adventure in EQ. Adventure as in a big world before you with untold possibilities (tm). Yes I know each zone was its own but the more I think about it being in a dedicated group instance means they are locked out from everyone else so no matter what zone you're in you won't see them.

I'm not really concerned with what the majority of people want but I rather like the thought of everyone being in the same "world". At lest there are games like Vanguard that feature that kind of world. A few more are coming as well :)
  osiriszoran

Novice Member

Joined: 11/29/11
Posts: 87

4/01/13 2:51:59 PM#94
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by osiriszoran
 

I think this just Nostalgia talking for people. Honestly, a perfect MMORPG would have instanced dungeons as well as open air dungeons. Why cant there be both? 

There *can* be both. The question is whether they will be fun. The problem with EQ is that:

- static spawn point with long time in-between spawns

- people camp them .. so it is boring, and easy (the fights are way easier with less combat mechanics than modern games).

- small number of mobs each time you fight

Instanced dungeons provide a much better (for me, obviously and many other) gaming experiences. Can open air dungeon do the same? I have not seen one i like yet .. but i won't say 100% for sure in the future.

But i won't play a game that requires me to wait 28 min (or even 10min, or even 5 min) to kill static spawn, one by one.

 

I think the open air dungeons are more for the people who want that sense of danger and excitement that comes with player interaction in the form of grouping to prevent pvp or to start pvp.  Alot of funtimes and interesting drama can be started by controlling/fighting over a dungeon and can lead to a sense of great accomplishment.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19928

4/01/13 2:57:44 PM#95
Originally posted by Aelious


I'm not really concerned with what the majority of people want but I rather like the thought of everyone being in the same "world". At lest there are games like Vanguard that feature that kind of world. A few more are coming as well :)

I realize that does not really matter when i can see no more than 50-60 people at one time anyway. The biggest fantasy battle i have fought .. is like WG with what .. 40 on one side? That is massive enough.

It makes zero gameplay difference to me, if the number is 4000 instead of 40 .. you can't see everyone anyway.

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19928

4/01/13 2:59:35 PM#96
Originally posted by osiriszoran
 

I think the open air dungeons are more for the people who want that sense of danger and excitement that comes with player interaction in the form of grouping to prevent pvp or to start pvp.  Alot of funtimes and interesting drama can be started by controlling/fighting over a dungeon and can lead to a sense of great accomplishment.

But not everyone like PvP in their dungeon crawl. In fact, most people are on pve servers with no open pvp.

And i also don't see why you need a open air dungeon to do what you just said .. a instanced pvp dungeon with both pvp opponent and NPC bosses can do the same.

  Storm_Cloud

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 305

4/01/13 3:43:20 PM#97

I don't know what the SOE team has planned, but, they do say the ideas are CRAZY! That they are/should be considered as have gone totally NUTS!

Personally, I do hope it means that they are returning to "old school" style of MMOs.

Take the best parts from EQ, EQ2, Vanguard Online, Starwars Galaxies. Put em all in a bowl and mix em up. Pour the mix through a filter that removes easymode, amongst other things.

After this is done, pour it into a crock pot and add spices in forms of corpse runs, levelleling difficulties, death penalties and grouping/socialising, and whatever new ideas that you think will mix well into this blend.

Heat up the oven to the certain amount of devs, programmers etc that will perfect this amazing idea of a dish.

 

Let it cook for a couple years and you will have the amazing tasty end result, that today will be known as EQnext. :)

 

Storm

  osiriszoran

Novice Member

Joined: 11/29/11
Posts: 87

4/01/13 3:50:02 PM#98
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by osiriszoran
 

I think the open air dungeons are more for the people who want that sense of danger and excitement that comes with player interaction in the form of grouping to prevent pvp or to start pvp.  Alot of funtimes and interesting drama can be started by controlling/fighting over a dungeon and can lead to a sense of great accomplishment.

But not everyone like PvP in their dungeon crawl. In fact, most people are on pve servers with no open pvp.

And i also don't see why you need a open air dungeon to do what you just said .. a instanced pvp dungeon with both pvp opponent and NPC bosses can do the same.

Because you want to keep a MMORPG as open as possible. People who dont like pvp in their dungeon crawl can do the dungeons with instances, but if they want to get whatever is on the outdoor dungeon boss they better be willing to fight for it. Thats called appealing to both pvpers and pvers.

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2459

World > Quest Progression

4/01/13 3:59:28 PM#99
Originally posted by Storm_Cloud

I don't know what the SOE team has planned, but, they do say the ideas are CRAZY! That they are/should be considered as have gone totally NUTS!

Personally, I do hope it means that they are returning to "old school" style of MMOs.

Take the best parts from EQ, EQ2, Vanguard Online, Starwars Galaxies. Put em all in a bowl and mix em up. Pour the mix through a filter that removes easymode, amongst other things.

After this is done, pour it into a crock pot and add spices in forms of corpse runs, levelleling difficulties, death penalties and grouping/socialising, and whatever new ideas that you think will mix well into this blend.

Heat up the oven to the certain amount of devs, programmers etc that will perfect this amazing idea of a dish.

 

Let it cook for a couple years and you will have the amazing tasty end result, that today will be known as EQnext. :)

 

Storm

 

We can only hope! They have been pretty public about taking from their other games in order to find out what people really want from those titles... that and their cool tech tools.  One telling thing is that the original versions were described as "EQ2.5" and good but not what they wanted.  So if the plan for a quest based themepark was so bad that they scraped that version (cost incurred) for "the biggest sandbox style MMO ever created" what does that mean? Nothing really until 9/1

 

If they had different servers for harsher gameplay I wouldn't mind.  I have a good amount of fun playing most MMOs and console games for "100% fun all time" but whenever a game has gotten stale it's because the journey is too expected, I kill things and they die easy unless I get into an instance.  I don't think it's better or worse in general but I like the idea of unknown variables when I play.

  Jaedor

Elite Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 938

4/01/13 4:07:25 PM#100

Questing is a way to tell a story. It can also be a grind but imo it's much less noticeable or irritating when it engages you because you then become part of the story. This is the foundation of immersion, investment and attachment to your avatar.

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