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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » The PVP is just not good...

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57 posts found
  red_cruiser

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/07
Posts: 443

3/25/13 4:05:13 AM#21
Originally posted by Jyiiga
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Jyiiga

Another thing about all this. You can easily hog potions, so everyone is going to be doing it.

There is no combat timer/limitation on mounting. If you break away from a battle for even a second or two, you can mount and run to the potion powerup. 

Honestly, the pot just looks like a bad idea. Are they going to design PvP around always having a sitting there? Even when you're full, it appears to act like an invulnerability potion since it persists through combat.

Yeah it kinda blows my mind. I keep having flashbacks to me hogging the body armor in Goldeneye as a child. 

...on Oddjob.  The instant mounting, the lack of diversity, the potion all seem like things that a more experienced PvP crew would have been able to get right from the get go.  We are living in a world where the world's most experienced PvP team in the world came up with Ilum so I guess the standards to be a game designer aren't that high.  The video didn't look terrible; but it didn't look good either.

  sibs4455

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/22/08
Posts: 355

3/25/13 4:27:57 AM#22

I played about 6 matches yesterday, i have seen this type of pvp many times before in other games, to me it felt lackluster.

As an example GW1 has much better arena style pvp than NW with many more skills to pick from and a better class balance,this type of pvp brings nothing new to the table. I can think of nurmous ways of how to enchance the enjoyment of arena pvp yet a group of pvp game designers cannot, something is very wrong there.

As for some people saying this is beta and many changes will be forthcoming well i don't believe it, what you see here will not be updated much if at all.

Still i maybe wrong and if so i will tip my cap to them.

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

3/25/13 4:32:23 AM#23
Originally posted by sibs4455

I played about 6 matches yesterday, i have seen this type of pvp many times before in other games, to me it felt lackluster.

As an example GW1 has much better arena style pvp than NW with many more skills to pick from and a better class balance,this type of pvp brings nothing new to the table. I can think of nurmous ways of how to enchance the enjoyment of arena pvp yet a group of pvp game designers cannot, something is very wrong there.

As for some people saying this is beta and many changes will be forthcoming well i don't believe it, what you see here will not be updated much if at all.

Still i maybe wrong and if so i will tip my cap to them.

I really doubt in regards to PvP. I don't get the impression that is one of their main focal points. This really isn't going to be a game for the PvP enthusiast.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  Jyiiga

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1017

 
OP  3/25/13 6:20:45 AM#24

Originally posted by Dalanon
I really don't understand why mmo's have to have pvp these days.  There's always balance problems, and i'd rather the dev team work more on giving me new content to explore and better story depth.

You know I tend to agree. In some cases I wish they would just leave it out. Then I wouldn't feel obligated to seek out the most bang for my buck in the pvp side crap. Instead I would just play what I like the looks of. 

Originally posted by Gormok
In MMOs rogues or rogue like class are always OP  in pvp. Shealth and high dps along with the abiltiy to vanish in combat makes these classes highly potent. That is why a lot of people look for rouge type classes when they go to or join a new mmo, especially mmos that feature open world pvp. Not to mention they are also the easiest classes to pvp with.

The fact that they are almost always OP makes it twice as funny. If you go back to their D&D roots, they are by no means some alpha class. Its video game makers that twist them into that. 

Originally posted by DeniZg

So, according to OP, PVP is not perfectly balanced in BETA? Wow, I'm shocked.

I already commented on a similar reply. 

 

  HeroEvermore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/09
Posts: 692

Banned 18 times and counting.

3/25/13 6:22:59 AM#25
I thought the pvp was frikn sweet but im not a hardcore pvper (i was grand mashal in vanilla WoW, i just dont NEED pvp to have fun in an rpg). I did manage to go 15-0 (great wep fighter) in my FIRST BG though with my cleric buddy healing us. Had a blast. PvP is always fun with friends though. The 1 thing I DISLIKED about the pvp. The maps. My goodness were they bland. This was just one mode Domination though so I have faith we will see disimilar areas soon enough :D

Hero Evermore
Guild Master of Dragonspine since 1982.
Playing Path of Exile and deeply in love with it.

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8591

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

3/25/13 6:24:30 AM#26
Originally posted by Dalanon
I really don't understand why mmo's have to have pvp these days.  There's always balance problems, and i'd rather the dev team work more on giving me new content to explore and better story depth.

Because i enjoy a good PvP match, PvP is dynamic and allows players to show if they are really good with their characters.  I just love the leveling and the pve endgame, but only a PvP match makes me break a sweat, makes my adrenaline pump around.. 

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  BitterClinger

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 208

2014 Watch List: World of Warships, ArcheAge

3/25/13 6:33:33 AM#27

I just hope they don't screw up the rest of the game for the sake of "PvP balance" or PvP anything, really. Did anyone really expect world class PvP from a D&D based game? Can anyone name a D&D based game with great PvP?

Folks, it's not a PvP game. Neverwinter is a multiplayer RPG with some MMO areas for commerce/auction houses and PvP shoe-horned in just to say it's there. So, I just hope they keep focusing on the core of the game, which is the Foundry and the Multiplayer RPG experience.

Top Games Played JAN 2014: World of Warplanes, Guild Wars 2, World of Tanks

  stevebombsquad

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 605

3/25/13 6:46:25 AM#28
It was better than GW2 SPVP by far, but still not all that great. I wouldn't expect much though. PvP is a side thing in this MMO as it should be. DnD has always been about the PvE.

James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  Yaevindusk

Elite Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1198

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

3/25/13 7:31:10 AM#29
Originally posted by kalinis

No wonder so many mmo's have trouble finding fans. Please . I mean come on . The game is in beta. U find bugs u report them ,, They don't do balanceing till the end stages of beta. If u expect a beta to have balanced pvp u really need to just not play it period. 

Beta is not a preview of the finished game. Its a test to find bugs things that dont work right and in the end balancing and graphic issues that they fix. Really alot of games ui changes from start of beta till end . 

If u expected this game to play like a finished product in beta no wonder u are disappointed really what a pointless post to start with. 

 

My only real complaint with the original post is that it wasn't written in a way I would expect when it comes to a game that's in beta, and will be free to play when it comes out.  There's almost no balance or unbias nature (aside from the whole 'I hope this other part is good' brief sentence at the end), no videos explaining what he/she means, and little evidence to back up the assertions.

In my opinion this is especially bad since the game is in fact free to try out and form our own opinions on it, and is in fact still in testing (it doesn't matter what type of testing it is).  It just seems kind've vindictive as a whole (and is later admitted by the OP who openly dislikes the developers and how they deal with PvP combat) in that instead of trying to help the developers and posting on their forums, the OP comes to a press site with the sole intent to turn people off the game and express hatred of Crypitc as a whole.

This is a behavior that I have disliked for some time, and only recently come to bat against.  There is no public service announcement in that you're saving people a box price here (people can try a free game for themselves and come to their own conclusions); it's just one person thinking others care about their poorly construed thoughts and vindictive nature toward a developer/game we could all try for free and think for ourselves.

How could have it been made into a more appropriate post?

1)  Make a more balance thread name; if a thread has bias in it, it sets the stage for the rest of the writing one people read it (their mood in doing such).

2)  Have either:

A)  The pros and cons of something you are writing about or substantial evidence and a video or two displaying something and ask what others who have played it think.

B)  Ask what others think about certain specifics regarding the PvP and start a conversation about it, casually stating that you weren't feeling it.

3)  Note at the beginning that a game is in beta and will be free to play; at the end mention once more the game is free to play and that people should try it for themselves and not just follow your every word as law.

 

Not only will this avoid extra drama in the thread (and start a "troll/fanboy" war), but it may actually bring about a more appropriate setting for a great conversation topic without needlessly bashing the game.

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  Jyiiga

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1017

 
OP  3/25/13 8:57:30 AM#30
Originally posted by Yaevindusk
Originally posted by kalinis

No wonder so many mmo's have trouble finding fans. Please . I mean come on . The game is in beta. U find bugs u report them ,, They don't do balanceing till the end stages of beta. If u expect a beta to have balanced pvp u really need to just not play it period. 

Beta is not a preview of the finished game. Its a test to find bugs things that dont work right and in the end balancing and graphic issues that they fix. Really alot of games ui changes from start of beta till end . 

If u expected this game to play like a finished product in beta no wonder u are disappointed really what a pointless post to start with. 

 

My only real complaint with the original post is that it wasn't written in a way I would expect when it comes to a game that's in beta, and will be free to play when it comes out.  There's almost no balance or unbias nature (aside from the whole 'I hope this other part is good' brief sentence at the end), no videos explaining what he/she means, and little evidence to back up the assertions.

In my opinion this is especially bad since the game is in fact free to try out and form our own opinions on it, and is in fact still in testing (it doesn't matter what type of testing it is).  It just seems kind've vindictive as a whole (and is later admitted by the OP who openly dislikes the developers and how they deal with PvP combat) in that instead of trying to help the developers and posting on their forums, the OP comes to a press site with the sole intent to turn people off the game and express hatred of Crypitc as a whole.

This is a behavior that I have disliked for some time, and only recently come to bat against.  There is no public service announcement in that you're saving people a box price here (people can try a free game for themselves and come to their own conclusions); it's just one person thinking others care about their poorly construed thoughts and vindictive nature toward a developer/game we could all try for free and think for ourselves.

How could have it been made into a more appropriate post?

1)  Make a more balance thread name; if a thread has bias in it, it sets the stage for the rest of the writing one people read it (their mood in doing such).

2)  Have either:

A)  The pros and cons of something you are writing about or substantial evidence and a video or two displaying something and ask what others who have played it think.

B)  Ask what others think about certain specifics regarding the PvP and start a conversation about it, casually stating that you weren't feeling it.

3)  Note at the beginning that a game is in beta and will be free to play; at the end mention once more the game is free to play and that people should try it for themselves and not just follow your every word as law.

 

Not only will this avoid extra drama in the thread (and start a "troll/fanboy" war), but it may actually bring about a more appropriate setting for a great conversation topic without needlessly bashing the game.

I do not feel obligated to name specific pros and cons when I am talking about a select portion of the game. Were it a detailed review about the game as a whole, yes.

I also do not feel obligated to give Cryptic the benefit of the doubt when it comes to pvp gameplay. As they have proven time and again that they lack the desire to flesh it out properly. 

This is compounded by the fact, that they are using the same engine. Yes it has been modified and upgraded, but it is the same engine used for CO and STO. They didn't have to build everything from the ground up here. It was cheap to make and cheap to develop (relatively speaking). 

There are parts of the game that I will go to bat for them on and there may be new parts (the foundry when I get to see it) that will improve my overall score for the game. 

Almost every single title is released as a F2P game these days. So yes, any and everyone is free to try it out and form their own opinion, but I'm not going to change my entire line of thinking because a game is free. Most of them are free, it is the standard. 

Sometimes a poker in the ass is better than a gentle nudge. 

For your sake... I backed off on my strongly worded title! 

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

3/25/13 9:11:29 AM#31
The posted video didn't look that horrible, but I believe that dps rules. I think the bigger problem is the animation rooting. Still if you want PvP go GW2.


  Jyiiga

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1017

 
OP  3/25/13 9:14:33 AM#32
Originally posted by Kuppa
The posted video didn't look that horrible, but I believe that dps rules. I think the bigger problem is the animation rooting. Still if you want PvP go GW2.

Animation rooting is an issue, just not one people are exploiting yet. For the most part people wanted to fight, so everyone was in the fray.

However, melee classes will have a major issue engaging caster classes that do not wish to fight. It is very easy for them to just keep moving and then you can not land any standard hits. This was a huge weakness on the Guardian and the Great Weapon Fighter. They have encounter powers to close gaps, but after that they can not stay glued to their target. 

The Rogue on the other hand, can just switch to throwing daggers if you refuse to hold still. 

  Doogiehowser

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1939

3/25/13 9:16:59 AM#33

I don't see myself doing any PVP in this game. For me it is all about foundry and dungeon crawling.

I think devs just insert PVP as a formality even in those MMOS where it doesn't belong.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
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  Avarix

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/22/12
Posts: 285

3/25/13 9:17:41 AM#34
I gave it a shot with my Cleric and ranked #1. I'm not a PvP player at all and thought it was a nice change of pace, not much else. Did you really go into a D&D IP and expect great PvP? They will be doing the game a huge disservice if they actually try to balance it for PvP, it's simply not meant for it. I could have told you that at best it will be standard fare before even logging into the game however. This is D&D, not CoD.
  Eir_S

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4700

GW2 socialist.

3/25/13 9:21:40 AM#35
It's nothing special but I don't think it's "bad" necessarily.  I had fun in the matches I played with a friend, but yeah, now is the time to complain and the slippery caster classes are a true issue, as well as the potion buffs.  Just remove them, I say.  Let healers do their job.
  Doogiehowser

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1939

3/25/13 9:24:32 AM#36
Originally posted by Avarix
I gave it a shot with my Cleric and ranked #1. I'm not a PvP player at all and thought it was a nice change of pace, not much else. Did you really go into a D&D IP and expect great PvP? They will be doing the game a huge disservice if they actually try to balance it for PvP, it's simply not meant for it. I could have told you that at best it will be standard fare before even logging into the game however. This is D&D, not CoD.

Exactly my point. But i guess devs add PVP just because it is something you 'have to' in every MMO.

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  Jyiiga

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1017

 
OP  3/25/13 9:28:19 AM#37
Originally posted by Avarix
I gave it a shot with my Cleric and ranked #1. I'm not a PvP player at all and thought it was a nice change of pace, not much else. Did you really go into a D&D IP and expect great PvP? They will be doing the game a huge disservice if they actually try to balance it for PvP, it's simply not meant for it. I could have told you that at best it will be standard fare before even logging into the game however. This is D&D, not CoD.

Did I expect it? Nope. See my post history as I spoke about what I expected from their PVP before it was released. I was hopeful though. 

  rodingo

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 1720

3/25/13 9:29:53 AM#38
Originally posted by Doogiehowser

I don't see myself doing any PVP in this game. For me it is all about foundry and dungeon crawling.

I think devs just insert PVP as a formality even in those MMOS where it doesn't belong.

I feel the same way.  I prefer pvp in my MMOs over pve, however there are times when I play certain MMOs for pve only and Neverwinter will be one of those.  Much like Lotro as well.  I have another game that I prefer to pvp in that was designed with pvp in mind that scratches that itch just fine.

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  slicknslim88

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 400

3/25/13 10:21:54 AM#39
Originally posted by Jyiiga
Originally posted by Kuppa
The posted video didn't look that horrible, but I believe that dps rules. I think the bigger problem is the animation rooting. Still if you want PvP go GW2.

Animation rooting is an issue, just not one people are exploiting yet. For the most part people wanted to fight, so everyone was in the fray.

However, melee classes will have a major issue engaging caster classes that do not wish to fight. It is very easy for them to just keep moving and then you can not land any standard hits. This was a huge weakness on the Guardian and the Great Weapon Fighter. They have encounter powers to close gaps, but after that they can not stay glued to their target. 

The Rogue on the other hand, can just switch to throwing daggers if you refuse to hold still. 

There is so much garbage being spat out about the PvP on these forums that it's almost criminal.  I'm about to open up a thread thats entirely speaking out on the PvP's strengths instead of having a completely negative view on it right form the get go.  People need to know that the PvP is awesomely fun as well as flawed.

The problem with this post Jyiiga is that sure, Guardian tanks and two handed fighters have problems keeping up with runners.  Although I would still argue that they don't because two handed fighters are fast mofo's with there sprint and other abilities, and Guardians have their charge attack that has ridiculous range.  But your right, they don't glue to their targets.  However thats why the gametype is Domination...killing isn't important, taking points is, so if the mage is running and you can't keep up...you shoulnd't keep up, you should go back to the point and protect it, you've done your job, you've repelled the enemy. 

Whining about not getting kills in a Domination/capture the points gametype is just childish and is nothing but pointless whining from people who aren't thinking about teamwork and don't fully understand their roll in PvP.

As for balance issues.  The classes were SHOCKINGLY balanced.  I have plenty of reasons for this, but that would result in a long post, I'm probably gonna make a thread on this.

  Eir_S

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4700

GW2 socialist.

3/25/13 10:23:55 AM#40
Originally posted by slicknslim88

As for balance issues.  The classes were SHOCKINGLY balanced.  I have plenty of reasons for this, but that would result in a long post, I'm probably gonna make a thread on this.

Do it!  I'd love to read it.  The classes seemed somewhat balanced since I know everyone has different special skills, including dodging and blocking, but I didn't see how they were SHOCKINGLY balanced and I'd honestly like to know what I'm missing so I can prepare for release.

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