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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » [POLL] Tab Targeting vs Action Combat

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306 posts found
  patlefort

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/08
Posts: 62

3/24/13 8:00:51 PM#121
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by patlefort
Originally posted by Candomble
Originally posted by patlefort
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by just1opinion

 

For me, action combat goes with a game pad/controller, not keyboard.  I hate it with keyboard.  So generally, other than with GW2, I prefer tab targeting.  I think of GW2 as more of an action combat game that is PC friendly.  I do NOT intend to play console games.  I loathe consoles and that whole couch potato thing.  I'd rather sit in my office chair and use a keyboard, so....for now I suppose I prefer tab targeting or.....GW2 "actiony" combat.

This.  While I frequently mention that I enjoy variety in MMOs, I quit consoles for a reason.  PCs just have more to offer me.  So why would I want my favorite genre to cater to console gamers?  I know it's not likely all MMOs will ever go full action combat, but still.. GW2 is the best example I can think of of a happy medium.  I think what some people miss is not being able to dodge projectiles actively.

Simple anwser, it does not cater to console gamers. Keyboard + mouse is supperior to a controller for this kind of game. It caters to action gamers on PC.

Tbh I feel very confortable playing this "action combat" MMOs with mouse + keyboard. And I think that a special keyboard or mouse is less needed in those, when comparing to "tab target" MMOs.

I bought my first "special" mouse to play WoW and with AoC I added a Merc Stealth keyboard. 

Consoles were never my thing (very old school; started with a 2048k Timex, and played foot manager and total war series for several years before starting with MMOs); I don't know how to use its controls, but I don't feel any need to try them.

I don't know where that come from. Console games in third person view usually have a lock on target feature. Shooters usually have aim assist. Because aiming sucks with a controllers. It's less/not needed with a mouse.

He/She was agreeing with you. They were saying that Action Combat systems tend to lend themselves to a default keyboard and mouse combo better than a traditional tab target system where it becomes benficial to get a razer naga or other multi button gaming mouse and or something like a logitech G13. I tend to agree.

I agree with you on the aiming as well. Almost all games on consoles that require aiming remove the need for aiming by having varying degrees of aim assist which to me defeats the purpose lol.  

Ah maybe I misread. Special/specialized gear can always help of course in any game.

  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1934

3/24/13 8:04:57 PM#122
Originally posted by patlefort

EQ raiding was never hard

I love people like you, likely never raided a thing in his life but likes to make bold statements. Tell me smartass, which EQ raids have you done past PoP?

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/24/13 8:10:23 PM#123
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by patlefort

EQ raiding was never hard

I love people like you, likely never raided a thing in his life but likes to make bold statements. Tell me smartass, which EQ raids have you done past PoP?

how is that any differen't than people who say action games require no strategy and are nothing but zerg fests... anyone who uses those sort of over-generalizations has no clue what they are talking about

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1934

3/24/13 8:11:11 PM#124
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by patlefort

EQ raiding was never hard

I love people like you, likely never raided a thing in his life but likes to make bold statements. Tell me smartass, which EQ raids have you done past PoP?

how is that any differen't than people who say action games require no strategy and are nothing but zerg fests... anyone who uses those sort of over-generalizations has no clue what they are talking about

who are you referring to

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6988

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

3/24/13 8:12:31 PM#125

A normal fps only has maybe 5-7 preferred weapons,with a good ui meaning primary and secondary both on mouse,you can utilize a targetting system.

MMORPG's tend to have 50 or more,there is no way you can tell me you can effectively aim and look for 50+ abvilities and spells.The ONLY way that works is if the game is very shallow in thjat you only spam 1-2 spells and everything else is a pre buff.Other games try to cheapen it even woprse by limiting what you can actually use,like only 3-5 skills at a time.That is a very unrealistic scenario,i just spent  all that time to learn something,now your telling me i need to pretend i forget how to use it?

Point is Aim worls great in fps's not in MMORPG's.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Darkcrystal

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/10
Posts: 804

3/24/13 8:13:51 PM#126
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by CalmOceans

If I wanted action combat I would play a console game with a controller where I could mash buttons.

Tab targeting allows for tactics like crowd control and splitting techniques that simply aren't possible during action zergfests.

Don't be a fool. Action combat can and has just as much tactics, CC and everything else than any other method of combat. It only looks like a button mash to someone who doesn't understand what is happening.

You're letting your ignorance show.

Most games with Tab targetting have no skilled involved , were action it does, this is the funny pwrt..  I perfer TWITCH /action, any day, Tab target is mindless... Takes no skill at all.... 

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/24/13 8:18:09 PM#127
Originally posted by Darkcrystal
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by CalmOceans

If I wanted action combat I would play a console game with a controller where I could mash buttons.

Tab targeting allows for tactics like crowd control and splitting techniques that simply aren't possible during action zergfests.

Don't be a fool. Action combat can and has just as much tactics, CC and everything else than any other method of combat. It only looks like a button mash to someone who doesn't understand what is happening.

You're letting your ignorance show.

Most games with Tab targetting have no skilled involved , were action it does, this is the funny pwrt..  I perfer TWITCH /action, any day, Tab target is mindless... Takes no skill at all.... 

if that was true i should be able to shut my eyes and just blindly hit tab and random buttons and win... of course tab target games take skill especially on the harder mode dungeons and raids.. same goes for action games..  these black and white arguments are ridiculous..

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1934

3/24/13 8:18:48 PM#128
Originally posted by Darkcrystal
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by CalmOceans

If I wanted action combat I would play a console game with a controller where I could mash buttons.

Tab targeting allows for tactics like crowd control and splitting techniques that simply aren't possible during action zergfests.

Don't be a fool. Action combat can and has just as much tactics, CC and everything else than any other method of combat. It only looks like a button mash to someone who doesn't understand what is happening.

You're letting your ignorance show.

Most games with Tab targetting have no skilled involved , were action it does, this is the funny pwrt..  I perfer TWITCH /action, any day, Tab target is mindless... Takes no skill at all.... 

No is denying that tab games require no gameplay combo skills. I don't think anyone who plays tab games simply cares about combos or button mashing skill. They require a different type of skill that's all.

I don't dodge like a zebra in FFXI or EQ, I don't need to jump or do non-stop combos. But I don't care, we already have ninja gaiden on our PS3, I don't want to play it again on my PC.

Since when did MMO become a glorified version of ninja gaiden, really, what is it with this desire to incorporate twitch console gameplay into MMO.

  Candomble

Novice Member

Joined: 7/15/11
Posts: 167

3/24/13 8:39:25 PM#129

@platefort

I (male btw) agree with you; just trying to reinforce the idea that to me a regular keyboard plus mouse is enough to play "action-combat" MMOs.

 

@CalmOceans

I respect your effort, work and progression, but 20+ raiding is not what defines "tab-target" combat; I would even say that such format isn't very usual in now days MMOs. Plus, "action-combat" MMOs I played also required some preparation and planning, for example changing skills to solo PVE, group PVE or PVP; different planning from 20+ raiding ofc, but as I said, 20+ raiding is not that usual.

 

As many said, I think that in the end its a matter of preferences, and there are players for all tastes, no one needs to be special or better because of that.

  Xiaoki

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2512

3/24/13 8:40:33 PM#130


Originally posted by CalmOceans

Originally posted by patlefort EQ raiding was never hard
I love people like you, likely never raided a thing in his life but likes to make bold statements. Tell me smartass, which EQ raids have you done past PoP?


I find this hilarious coming from the person that said "basically like playing street fighter, you dodge-combo-and button bash like a lunatic".


What you said can be applied to yourself. People like you, likely never played in a SF tournament in your life but likes to make bold statements about Street Fighter.


Im thinking that you are unable to see the skill and strategy in action games like action MMOs and Street Fighter because you yourself was unable to achieve that level of skill when you played Vindictus to level 70. Well, anyone can mindlessly grind levels it doesnt take skill to grind out levels. If you want to impress me how about you tell me what bosses you soloed in Vintictus.

  kikoodutroa8

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/22/12
Posts: 69

3/24/13 8:42:37 PM#131
Originally posted by CalmOceans

If I wanted action combat I would play a console game with a controller where I could mash buttons.

Tab targeting allows for tactics like crowd control and splitting techniques that simply aren't possible during action zergfests.

^ Thread should have ended after this post.

  User Deleted
3/24/13 8:43:39 PM#132
if action combat means "camera targeting" no thanks. In an MMO I need to see behind me while I'm fighting. GW2 and WildStar combines both, which is perfect for MMO's.
  GrayGhost79

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4889

3/24/13 8:43:44 PM#133
Originally posted by kikoodutroa8
Originally posted by CalmOceans

If I wanted action combat I would play a console game with a controller where I could mash buttons.

Tab targeting allows for tactics like crowd control and splitting techniques that simply aren't possible during action zergfests.

^ Thread should have ended after this post.

Why? You don't end threads on post by people that have no clue as to what they are talking about. 

  patlefort

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/08
Posts: 62

3/24/13 8:43:54 PM#134
Originally posted by Wizardry

A normal fps only has maybe 5-7 preferred weapons,with a good ui meaning primary and secondary both on mouse,you can utilize a targetting system.

MMORPG's tend to have 50 or more,there is no way you can tell me you can effectively aim and look for 50+ abvilities and spells.The ONLY way that works is if the game is very shallow in thjat you only spam 1-2 spells and everything else is a pre buff.Other games try to cheapen it even woprse by limiting what you can actually use,like only 3-5 skills at a time.That is a very unrealistic scenario,i just spent  all that time to learn something,now your telling me i need to pretend i forget how to use it?

Point is Aim worls great in fps's not in MMORPG's.

You don't need to have 50 keybind for 50 abilities. That's what combos are for. What MMO have 50 abilities anyways? That are all frequently used? In TERA I have over 20 skills I need to use on my warrior, and I have to actively aim and dodge and block. I can use them all effectively and so can many. This argument is invalid.

Most player sucks and want games to play for them. Action games does the opposite of that. Some players want to be in control and not just let a RNG decide if I get hit.

  Bossalinie

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/29/07
Posts: 632

3/24/13 8:54:54 PM#135
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Darkcrystal
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by CalmOceans

If I wanted action combat I would play a console game with a controller where I could mash buttons.

Tab targeting allows for tactics like crowd control and splitting techniques that simply aren't possible during action zergfests.

Don't be a fool. Action combat can and has just as much tactics, CC and everything else than any other method of combat. It only looks like a button mash to someone who doesn't understand what is happening.

You're letting your ignorance show.

Most games with Tab targetting have no skilled involved , were action it does, this is the funny pwrt..  I perfer TWITCH /action, any day, Tab target is mindless... Takes no skill at all.... 

No is denying that tab games require no gameplay combo skills. I don't think anyone who plays tab games simply cares about combos or button mashing skill. They require a different type of skill that's all.

I don't dodge like a zebra in FFXI or EQ, I don't need to jump or do non-stop combos. But I don't care, we already have ninja gaiden on our PS3, I don't want to play it again on my PC.

Since when did MMO become a glorified version of ninja gaiden, really, what is it with this desire to incorporate twitch console gameplay into MMO.

Probably because we've been playing the same style of tab target fighting in MMO's for 15+ years and complain that MMO's are too easy.

  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1934

3/24/13 9:26:09 PM#136
Originally posted by Bossalinie

Probably because we've been playing the same style of tab target fighting in MMO's for 15+ years and complain that MMO's are too easy.

current MMO aren't hard because they removed the heavy death penalties making you lose your levels, removed the ability to lose your gear when you die, removed corpse runs, removed downtime in favor of zerg, removed big raids, and they made it so everyone can solo from lvl 1

console type gameplay isn't going to fix that, you're simply replacing MMO with console type games

they require skill, but the games are no longer hard

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/24/13 9:28:23 PM#137
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Bossalinie

Probably because we've been playing the same style of tab target fighting in MMO's for 15+ years and complain that MMO's are too easy.

current MMO aren't hard because they removed the heavy death penalties making you lose your levels, removes the ability to lose your gear when you die, removed corpse runs, removed downtime in favor of zerg, and they made it so everyone can solo from lvl 1

console type gameplay isn't going to fix that, you're simply replacing MMO with console type games

i wouldn't say anything you listed makes a game hard, just tedious.

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1934

3/24/13 9:31:09 PM#138
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Bossalinie

Probably because we've been playing the same style of tab target fighting in MMO's for 15+ years and complain that MMO's are too easy.

current MMO aren't hard because they removed the heavy death penalties making you lose your levels, removes the ability to lose your gear when you die, removed corpse runs, removed downtime in favor of zerg, and they made it so everyone can solo from lvl 1

console type gameplay isn't going to fix that, you're simply replacing MMO with console type games

i wouldn't say anything you listed makes a game hard, just tedious.

the only thing in that list that is tedious would be corpse runs maybe

death penalties, bigger raids, forced grouping and gear loss are not related to tediousness

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/24/13 9:38:41 PM#139
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Bossalinie

Probably because we've been playing the same style of tab target fighting in MMO's for 15+ years and complain that MMO's are too easy.

current MMO aren't hard because they removed the heavy death penalties making you lose your levels, removes the ability to lose your gear when you die, removed corpse runs, removed downtime in favor of zerg, and they made it so everyone can solo from lvl 1

console type gameplay isn't going to fix that, you're simply replacing MMO with console type games

i wouldn't say anything you listed makes a game hard, just tedious.

the only thing in that list that is tedious would be corpse runs maybe

death penalties, bigger raids, forced grouping and gear loss are not related to tediousness

to me it does and glad MMOs moved away from that.. never in lineage 2 did i feel the death penalty made the game harder just more annoying that I had to grind out another couple hundred mobs to make up that xp.. and forced grouping is tedious as it requires you to search for people to group with and for some people who may play at off times or in games with low population servers they may not have the luxury of always having people around to group with.

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  GrayGhost79

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4889

3/24/13 9:39:29 PM#140
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Bossalinie

Probably because we've been playing the same style of tab target fighting in MMO's for 15+ years and complain that MMO's are too easy.

current MMO aren't hard because they removed the heavy death penalties making you lose your levels, removes the ability to lose your gear when you die, removed corpse runs, removed downtime in favor of zerg, and they made it so everyone can solo from lvl 1

console type gameplay isn't going to fix that, you're simply replacing MMO with console type games

i wouldn't say anything you listed makes a game hard, just tedious.

the only thing in that list that is tedious would be corpse runs maybe

death penalties, bigger raids, forced grouping and gear loss are not related to tediousness

It certainly doesn't add to difficulty. Losing levels was never much of an issue even in games like FFXI. Losing gear didn't overly matter even in UO durring the early days. Downtime was never a difficulty thing either it was to slow down the pace of advancement. 

These things were bypassed by forethought. People knew that dying would cost them levels so they got buffer xp, people knew that they could lose gear so they had multiple sets readily available. 

Nothing you have listed added to difficulty. It did make things more tedious though, definitely not harder. 

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