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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » [POLL] Tab Targeting vs Action Combat

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  akkedis86

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/13/12
Posts: 92

3/24/13 5:50:15 AM#101

My point being through all of this, Action combat has allot less choice, and you need to have a solid system, which I have yet to see.

 

Tab targeting is basically just auto-acquire.

With tab-targeting, you have more choice, more diversity, and thus more longevity.

5 skills versus 40 skills, guess which one I'll choose.

 

so tab targeting, start with protective barrier, periodic effect, short burst lightning, long burst lightning, bigger periodic effect, stun attack, self-heal, knockback, and short lightning attack, and long lightning attack, all the while balancing stamina/mana, whatever.(Nevermind balancing stats, and taunting, and healing.

 

This is just a simple example, but it's allot more engaging than a simple dodge and shoot that you currently find in action mmo's.

 

if they want something engaging, make it atleast ten active skills, and some passives, but not five, that's just awful. For example, as I stated, neverwinter feels less clunky, combat animations are fluid, dodging is pretty, and effective, aoe, and area hits reflect on the ground, with its six active skills, it does feel kind of interristing, but it does not offer enough choice, granted you may change out your skills at higher levels ,though it does present a interristing ideal.

  Candomble

Novice Member

Joined: 7/15/11
Posts: 167

3/24/13 6:12:10 AM#102

I think this thread is full of preconceptions and half trues... 

To me it is hard to draw the line where tab targeting ends and action combat begins, just to begin with. For example, I would say GW2 or TSW are more about action combat, but you have tab targeting; AoC is more tab target combat style, but melee hits in cone (not necessary the target) and you have some active ways to reduce damage. 

In some of those action combat MMOs you have combo systems, in others you don't (and GW2 combos are very different from Tera combos); in some your left and right click have combat skills, in others don't; some root you while you cast, others allow movement; some have auto-attack, other don't... and I could keep going.

 

That said I think that some people should be more prudent and try a lot more options before jumping into wrong conclusions or assumptions...

Saying that you can't choose targets or CC in action combat MMOs is just false, at least in several cases.

Talking about button mashing is another mistake. I mash buttons in every single MMO I play; in some I have to follow a priority list / rotation, in others choice is more situational, or both...

Saying tab target needs more preparation and thinking... well this is more of a joke to me. First I think that raid preparation is more a matter of game desing than combat itself, but... ok, tab targeting raiding... know the fight strategy; prepare things, distribute roles and functions; things start, keep talking, do your part, and press buttons in the "correct" sequence. Raiding in action-MMOs, I have yet to see those; I don't know if the TSW one is ready; in GW2 you don't have them; Tera don't know. The so called action combat in MMOs is a relativelly new trend, so I think this is work in progress at this moment. However, in many of those action MMOs you have to prepare yourself, to solo PVE, group PVE, PVP... Choosing the weapon or skills you will equip and be limited to use; in TSW or GW2 it makes a lot of difference. 

About dificulty.... I think it all depends on the player. I find action combat more challenging; some time it even becomes a little schizoid with all that movement, dodging, strafing, kiting and whatsoever, and that gets me tired... 

That said, I think combat is a substantial part of how much you will like or dislike a MMO, but is not everything.

Personnaly I prefer to have the capacity to move, having some limitations in the number of available active skills (and its not a matter of fingers, as I use a Merc Stealth and Razer Naga), some interaction among those skills, active dodging / blocking, tab targeting, cone damage and collision detection (I really dislike not having this and the abillity to hit a target bypassing others that are in front of you).

However, in the end, as long as combat feels good and the rest of the game is good, I'll play it.

  Candomble

Novice Member

Joined: 7/15/11
Posts: 167

3/24/13 6:13:48 AM#103
Originally posted by akkedis86

My point being through all of this, Action combat has allot less choice, and you need to have a solid system, which I have yet to see.

 

Tab targeting is basically just auto-acquire.

With tab-targeting, you have more choice, more diversity, and thus more longevity.

5 skills versus 40 skills, guess which one I'll choose.

 

so tab targeting, start with protective barrier, periodic effect, short burst lightning, long burst lightning, bigger periodic effect, stun attack, self-heal, knockback, and short lightning attack, and long lightning attack, all the while balancing stamina/mana, whatever.(Nevermind balancing stats, and taunting, and healing.

 

This is just a simple example, but it's allot more engaging than a simple dodge and shoot that you currently find in action mmo's.

 

if they want something engaging, make it atleast ten active skills, and some passives, but not five, that's just awful. For example, as I stated, neverwinter feels less clunky, combat animations are fluid, dodging is pretty, and effective, aoe, and area hits reflect on the ground, with its six active skills, it does feel kind of interristing, but it does not offer enough choice, granted you may change out your skills at higher levels ,though it does present a interristing ideal.

What action combat MMO are you talking about that only has 5 skills? I am trying but can't remember of anyone...

  ego13

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/04
Posts: 287

Hell is other people. - Sartre

3/24/13 1:13:37 PM#104
Originally posted by Candomble
Originally posted by akkedis86

My point being through all of this, Action combat has allot less choice, and you need to have a solid system, which I have yet to see.

 

Tab targeting is basically just auto-acquire.

With tab-targeting, you have more choice, more diversity, and thus more longevity.

5 skills versus 40 skills, guess which one I'll choose.

 

so tab targeting, start with protective barrier, periodic effect, short burst lightning, long burst lightning, bigger periodic effect, stun attack, self-heal, knockback, and short lightning attack, and long lightning attack, all the while balancing stamina/mana, whatever.(Nevermind balancing stats, and taunting, and healing.

 

This is just a simple example, but it's allot more engaging than a simple dodge and shoot that you currently find in action mmo's.

 

if they want something engaging, make it atleast ten active skills, and some passives, but not five, that's just awful. For example, as I stated, neverwinter feels less clunky, combat animations are fluid, dodging is pretty, and effective, aoe, and area hits reflect on the ground, with its six active skills, it does feel kind of interristing, but it does not offer enough choice, granted you may change out your skills at higher levels ,though it does present a interristing ideal.

What action combat MMO are you talking about that only has 5 skills? I am trying but can't remember of anyone...

This is what happens when you have someone with limited experience, data, and a hyperbolic statement to try and make an asinine point.  The reference, I believe, would be to GW2 or GW...in either case it would be a fallacy.

 

Those that love to sit and strategize without having any actual dynamic influence will always love tab targetting vs action or action + tab.  This is because they prefer to make their strategy and carry it out without any surprises.  It is FAR simpler to make your strategy and just rely on your people to carry out their role.  The only random part of this situation is the RNG for abilities and/or damage, which is quite enough for most players.  All of the mechanics explained by that poster are easily encountered in the most basic of GW2's events, ALONG with having to actually dodge the mechanics and dps and/or heal the other players.

 

The players that enjoy the traditional tab-game don't realize that most of the newer action-tab games encompass BOTH play-styles.  You have to plan, then you have to carry out, THEN you also have to be aware and dodge and adjust to different mechanics that could happen.  It's not one or the other, it's BOTH.  So 90% of the comparisons on here aren't even valid because they're referencing either old systems or systems that aren't used any longer.  Keep in mind in GW2 you also have to strategize which weapon to use, which extra abilities you're using based on your team and the encounter AND you still have all the other stuff of other MMO's like your build and everything else.

 

There is VERY LITTLE skill in old tab-games (EQ/EQII/WoW/etc..).  Most encounters are either a gear check or just an idiot check or both.  In any situation a small group (45% of the raid usually) can carry the weaker players through skill and gear.  Carrying out the strategy is usually not much of a challenge for anyone with the coordination of a chimpanzee or better.

Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.

  Quirhid

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5514

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

3/24/13 2:10:22 PM#105
Originally posted by Cirin
 

This is what happens when you have someone with limited experience, data, and a hyperbolic statement to try and make an asinine point.  The reference, I believe, would be to GW2 or GW...in either case it would be a fallacy.

 

Those that love to sit and strategize without having any actual dynamic influence will always love tab targetting vs action or action + tab.  This is because they prefer to make their strategy and carry it out without any surprises.  It is FAR simpler to make your strategy and just rely on your people to carry out their role.  The only random part of this situation is the RNG for abilities and/or damage, which is quite enough for most players.  All of the mechanics explained by that poster are easily encountered in the most basic of GW2's events, ALONG with having to actually dodge the mechanics and dps and/or heal the other players.

 

The players that enjoy the traditional tab-game don't realize that most of the newer action-tab games encompass BOTH play-styles.  You have to plan, then you have to carry out, THEN you also have to be aware and dodge and adjust to different mechanics that could happen.  It's not one or the other, it's BOTH.  So 90% of the comparisons on here aren't even valid because they're referencing either old systems or systems that aren't used any longer.  Keep in mind in GW2 you also have to strategize which weapon to use, which extra abilities you're using based on your team and the encounter AND you still have all the other stuff of other MMO's like your build and everything else.

 

There is VERY LITTLE skill in old tab-games (EQ/EQII/WoW/etc..).  Most encounters are either a gear check or just an idiot check or both.  In any situation a small group (45% of the raid usually) can carry the weaker players through skill and gear.  Carrying out the strategy is usually not much of a challenge for anyone with the coordination of a chimpanzee or better.

Very true.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Pivotelite

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/12
Posts: 2191

3/24/13 2:13:58 PM#106
Originally posted by Candomble
Originally posted by akkedis86

My point being through all of this, Action combat has allot less choice, and you need to have a solid system, which I have yet to see.

 

Tab targeting is basically just auto-acquire.

With tab-targeting, you have more choice, more diversity, and thus more longevity.

5 skills versus 40 skills, guess which one I'll choose.

What action combat MMO are you talking about that only has 5 skills? I am trying but can't remember of anyone...

 Yeah, I was wondering the same thing, just logged on to TERA to count what skills I actively use on my warrior... hmm..... 28 skills.

 

Add another "technical" 5 skills for potions and such and ive got 33 buttons to push.

  just1opinion

Smart-Alek

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 4933

3/24/13 2:19:13 PM#107

 

For me, action combat goes with a game pad/controller, not keyboard.  I hate it with keyboard.  So generally, other than with GW2, I prefer tab targeting.  I think of GW2 as more of an action combat game that is PC friendly.  I do NOT intend to play console games.  I loathe consoles and that whole couch potato thing.  I'd rather sit in my office chair and use a keyboard, so....for now I suppose I prefer tab targeting or.....GW2 "actiony" combat.

President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

3/24/13 2:28:27 PM#108
Originally posted by Cirin

There is VERY LITTLE skill in old tab-games (EQ/EQII/WoW/etc..).  Most encounters are either a gear check or just an idiot check or both.  In any situation a small group (45% of the raid usually) can carry the weaker players through skill and gear.  Carrying out the strategy is usually not much of a challenge for anyone with the coordination of a chimpanzee or better.

Saying stuff like this completely invalidates everything youve tried to say.

This is the exact equivalent of saying "action games require no strategy".

 

This thread is full of ridiculous.

 

 

  patlefort

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/08
Posts: 56

3/24/13 2:54:37 PM#109
Originally posted by CalmOceans

Less downtime just mean less time wasted, how is this bad?

Are you saying that action games are no challenge?

downtime helps community building and strategy

action games have less challenge compared to PVE tab games yes, they tend to have no significant death penalty or downtime after a failure, in all the games I played you get unlimited tries at every raid, you don't get punished for mistakes, which leads to zerging you see in those games, their raids tend to be below 40 players, there's less challenge in CC and a much bigger window in which a wrong action is tolerated

raids also simply last much shorter, in tab games raids can easily last an hour, in action games raids tend to be under 20 minutes, I assume because if you had to bash buttons for an hour your fingers would be in pain

they have button mashing skill, that's the only thing I find challenging about them, the only difficulty in Vindictus was making sure your fingers didn't get tired from all the dodging and mashing of buttons

 

Downtime help socializizng sure, but the rest is complete non sense. You have not played action MMOs much. You don't just mash buttons. You certainly don't zerg, in fact a game like EQ with raids of 40 people is exactly what I call a zerg. You don't zerg with a small group of around 5 people against monsters that can one shot you.

Sounds like you played Vindictus for a few levels only. Of course it's easy at lower levels.

  Eir_S

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4700

GW2 socialist.

3/24/13 3:08:29 PM#110
Originally posted by just1opinion

 

For me, action combat goes with a game pad/controller, not keyboard.  I hate it with keyboard.  So generally, other than with GW2, I prefer tab targeting.  I think of GW2 as more of an action combat game that is PC friendly.  I do NOT intend to play console games.  I loathe consoles and that whole couch potato thing.  I'd rather sit in my office chair and use a keyboard, so....for now I suppose I prefer tab targeting or.....GW2 "actiony" combat.

This.  While I frequently mention that I enjoy variety in MMOs, I quit consoles for a reason.  PCs just have more to offer me.  So why would I want my favorite genre to cater to console gamers?  I know it's not likely all MMOs will ever go full action combat, but still.. GW2 is the best example I can think of of a happy medium.  I think what some people miss is not being able to dodge projectiles actively.

  patlefort

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/08
Posts: 56

3/24/13 3:58:41 PM#111
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by just1opinion

 

For me, action combat goes with a game pad/controller, not keyboard.  I hate it with keyboard.  So generally, other than with GW2, I prefer tab targeting.  I think of GW2 as more of an action combat game that is PC friendly.  I do NOT intend to play console games.  I loathe consoles and that whole couch potato thing.  I'd rather sit in my office chair and use a keyboard, so....for now I suppose I prefer tab targeting or.....GW2 "actiony" combat.

This.  While I frequently mention that I enjoy variety in MMOs, I quit consoles for a reason.  PCs just have more to offer me.  So why would I want my favorite genre to cater to console gamers?  I know it's not likely all MMOs will ever go full action combat, but still.. GW2 is the best example I can think of of a happy medium.  I think what some people miss is not being able to dodge projectiles actively.

Simple anwser, it does not cater to console gamers. Keyboard + mouse is supperior to a controller for this kind of game. It caters to action gamers on PC.

  Candomble

Novice Member

Joined: 7/15/11
Posts: 167

3/24/13 5:38:07 PM#112
Originally posted by patlefort
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by just1opinion

 

For me, action combat goes with a game pad/controller, not keyboard.  I hate it with keyboard.  So generally, other than with GW2, I prefer tab targeting.  I think of GW2 as more of an action combat game that is PC friendly.  I do NOT intend to play console games.  I loathe consoles and that whole couch potato thing.  I'd rather sit in my office chair and use a keyboard, so....for now I suppose I prefer tab targeting or.....GW2 "actiony" combat.

This.  While I frequently mention that I enjoy variety in MMOs, I quit consoles for a reason.  PCs just have more to offer me.  So why would I want my favorite genre to cater to console gamers?  I know it's not likely all MMOs will ever go full action combat, but still.. GW2 is the best example I can think of of a happy medium.  I think what some people miss is not being able to dodge projectiles actively.

Simple anwser, it does not cater to console gamers. Keyboard + mouse is supperior to a controller for this kind of game. It caters to action gamers on PC.

Tbh I feel very confortable playing this "action combat" MMOs with mouse + keyboard. And I think that a special keyboard or mouse is less needed in those, when comparing to "tab target" MMOs.

I bought my first "special" mouse to play WoW and with AoC I added a Merc Stealth keyboard. 

Consoles were never my thing (very old school; started with a 2048k Timex, and played foot manager and total war series for several years before starting with MMOs); I don't know how to use its controls, but I don't feel any need to try them.

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

3/24/13 5:51:09 PM#113
I don't see why we have to choose one system fro all MMORPGs,there room for both as well as different types of MMOS other than RPG.Also it's more improtant that the game is good than jsut one aspect of it.
  CalmOceans

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1815

3/24/13 5:52:17 PM#114
Originally posted by Cirin

There is VERY LITTLE skill in old tab-games (EQ/EQII/WoW/etc..).  Most encounters are either a gear check or just an idiot check or both.  In any situation a small group (45% of the raid usually) can carry the weaker players through skill and gear.  Carrying out the strategy is usually not much of a challenge for anyone with the coordination of a chimpanzee or better.

wow I don't even know where to begin

Let me tell you how raiding in EQ works. The Beast raid to name one, requires 54 players.

We spent a total of 5 months on this mob, around 2 hour a night was spent on this mob. After around 200 tries (each try takes about 1 hour), we beat it for the first time.

Any person who did not do enough DPS, who set off an AE in that 1 hour by not following the scipt, any person who misstepped once, any person who started whining, any tank who did something wrong, got a warning, the people who got more than 3 warning lost DKP and were removed from the raid.

We spent hours looking over logs after raids to see who caused issues in our raid, to pinpoint the weak link so we could correct any faults we or others had.

You are really clueless about tab games if you think they are "an idiot check". Good luck with that, it took an immense amount of coordination and finetuning to kill this mob for us, and we were the first on our server to do it.

Our gear did not improve over those months of playing, we finetuned and finetuned until we were 54 players all working in sync and no one missing a single beat and 54 players with total focus in front of their screen for 1 hour straight, And after 200 tries we beat it, and 5 players left our guild because they were tired of losing.

No one "carries" anyone on these type of raids, anyone missing a beat causes a raid-wide AE wiping your raid, after this happened we went looking over logs to pinpoint who did it and they got a warning, after 3 warnings they were removed.

After we beat it for the first time we lost another 12 times before we beat it again.

How easy do you think it is to get 54 players ready 200 times in a row without a single win, it takes a lot of motivation and a lot of social skill to keep a guild together and to keep people motivated when you keep losing and losing.

 

Some people think these games are boring, they're not fast enough, but they require a community to stick together, they require social skills to keep your guild together and not fall apart, the content tends to be much more brutal than in action games, while it doesn't take button mashing skill. or crazy dodge skill, or tying combos together, it takes other kind of skills, it takes social skill, strategy skill, coordination, and dedication, you can not rush in and try to beat most raids, most of the time on this raid was spent talking in the guild and critiquing ourselves and fellow players and preventing our guild from breaking up over one mob.

This is why community is so strong in those old games like EQ and FFXI, because you need to know who you're playing with. You can fix gear, you can learn someone how to play, you can not change the type of person you're dealing with. It's far more important for us if a person is going to quit or not, if they're willing to take advice or not, if they're willing to work with others or not, than the gear they have, we frankly don't care about gear, you can get a person gear, you can't change who they are. Your name carries more value than all of your stats combined, everyone knows who you are and what kind of player you are.

  thinktank001

Elite Member

Joined: 12/13/08
Posts: 1842

3/24/13 6:19:48 PM#115
Originally posted by Cirin

The players that enjoy the traditional tab-game don't realize that most of the newer action-tab games encompass BOTH play-styles.  You have to plan, then you have to carry out, THEN you also have to be aware and dodge and adjust to different mechanics that could happen.  It's not one or the other, it's BOTH.  So 90% of the comparisons on here aren't even valid because they're referencing either old systems or systems that aren't used any longer.  Keep in mind in GW2 you also have to strategize which weapon to use, which extra abilities you're using based on your team and the encounter AND you still have all the other stuff of other MMO's like your build and everything else.

 

The appropriate approach to look at the differences between tab targeting and action combat is latency.  As you have pointed out both have at least some strategy as part of their gameplay, but I think the deciding factor is one is more dependent on latency.  

Do you want to play a game where latency can be more influential on the outcome of combat? 

  xaritscin

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/11
Posts: 303

"Antherea Online will see the light, eventually"

3/24/13 6:30:51 PM#116

gonna leave my 2 cents here:

a mix should be a best solution, how it works:

1. something akin to The Legend of Zelda, spells and equipment change would be done with commands, you would be able to configure the items and commands you want to use in the "command interface" (which could serve for non combat duties too)...

2. players would have an active combat system with an emphasis in actions, players would be able to dodge, block, etc... when players change to spell casting or ranged combat they would receive an aiming system so they can focus, and like in the legend of zelda( or Skyrim) they would have to take some seconds to charge or prepare their bows/guns/spells for shooting. this also applies to things like throwing weapons and explosives and other things like that.

3. in order to implement this we have to take in account that some active skills have to disappear an be action based, shield bashing for example,  you dont just click, you actually put the character to block and then use a combo to punch...this would give more emphasis in player's skill...same for ranged weapons, a player using a bow would have to take the time to aim and prepare the arrow before shooting...

4. spells have to become less stationary, for example, quick spells like shooting fireballs or water doesnt need you to stay in place like a tree, maybe it would depend on the power, so you could run and shoot fireballs of little size but with quick recharge, but things like summoning meteors or entities would require to you to take the time for casting the spell.

5. now that's about the fast pacing, but what happens with tabs?, well as i said, the combat interface would allow players to put actions in a bar and use it via a joystick/keyboard, with the keyboard being used to change for example, from sword to bow, or save your shield and prepare a spell, this would only for changing stance, cause the mouse would do the actions, same for joystick....the list could be seen on the desired side of the screen (again, something akin to The Legend of Zelda)

  patlefort

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/08
Posts: 56

3/24/13 6:38:55 PM#117
Originally posted by Candomble
Originally posted by patlefort
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by just1opinion

 

For me, action combat goes with a game pad/controller, not keyboard.  I hate it with keyboard.  So generally, other than with GW2, I prefer tab targeting.  I think of GW2 as more of an action combat game that is PC friendly.  I do NOT intend to play console games.  I loathe consoles and that whole couch potato thing.  I'd rather sit in my office chair and use a keyboard, so....for now I suppose I prefer tab targeting or.....GW2 "actiony" combat.

This.  While I frequently mention that I enjoy variety in MMOs, I quit consoles for a reason.  PCs just have more to offer me.  So why would I want my favorite genre to cater to console gamers?  I know it's not likely all MMOs will ever go full action combat, but still.. GW2 is the best example I can think of of a happy medium.  I think what some people miss is not being able to dodge projectiles actively.

Simple anwser, it does not cater to console gamers. Keyboard + mouse is supperior to a controller for this kind of game. It caters to action gamers on PC.

Tbh I feel very confortable playing this "action combat" MMOs with mouse + keyboard. And I think that a special keyboard or mouse is less needed in those, when comparing to "tab target" MMOs.

I bought my first "special" mouse to play WoW and with AoC I added a Merc Stealth keyboard. 

Consoles were never my thing (very old school; started with a 2048k Timex, and played foot manager and total war series for several years before starting with MMOs); I don't know how to use its controls, but I don't feel any need to try them.

I don't know where that come from. Console games in third person view usually have a lock on target feature. Shooters usually have aim assist. Because aiming sucks with a controllers. It's less/not needed with a mouse.

  GrayGhost79

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4888

3/24/13 6:48:39 PM#118
Originally posted by patlefort
Originally posted by Candomble
Originally posted by patlefort
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by just1opinion

 

For me, action combat goes with a game pad/controller, not keyboard.  I hate it with keyboard.  So generally, other than with GW2, I prefer tab targeting.  I think of GW2 as more of an action combat game that is PC friendly.  I do NOT intend to play console games.  I loathe consoles and that whole couch potato thing.  I'd rather sit in my office chair and use a keyboard, so....for now I suppose I prefer tab targeting or.....GW2 "actiony" combat.

This.  While I frequently mention that I enjoy variety in MMOs, I quit consoles for a reason.  PCs just have more to offer me.  So why would I want my favorite genre to cater to console gamers?  I know it's not likely all MMOs will ever go full action combat, but still.. GW2 is the best example I can think of of a happy medium.  I think what some people miss is not being able to dodge projectiles actively.

Simple anwser, it does not cater to console gamers. Keyboard + mouse is supperior to a controller for this kind of game. It caters to action gamers on PC.

Tbh I feel very confortable playing this "action combat" MMOs with mouse + keyboard. And I think that a special keyboard or mouse is less needed in those, when comparing to "tab target" MMOs.

I bought my first "special" mouse to play WoW and with AoC I added a Merc Stealth keyboard. 

Consoles were never my thing (very old school; started with a 2048k Timex, and played foot manager and total war series for several years before starting with MMOs); I don't know how to use its controls, but I don't feel any need to try them.

I don't know where that come from. Console games in third person view usually have a lock on target feature. Shooters usually have aim assist. Because aiming sucks with a controllers. It's less/not needed with a mouse.

He/She was agreeing with you. They were saying that Action Combat systems tend to lend themselves to a default keyboard and mouse combo better than a traditional tab target system where it becomes benficial to get a razer naga or other multi button gaming mouse and or something like a logitech G13. I tend to agree.

I agree with you on the aiming as well. Almost all games on consoles that require aiming remove the need for aiming by having varying degrees of aim assist which to me defeats the purpose lol.  

  patlefort

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/08
Posts: 56

3/24/13 6:56:10 PM#119
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Cirin

There is VERY LITTLE skill in old tab-games (EQ/EQII/WoW/etc..).  Most encounters are either a gear check or just an idiot check or both.  In any situation a small group (45% of the raid usually) can carry the weaker players through skill and gear.  Carrying out the strategy is usually not much of a challenge for anyone with the coordination of a chimpanzee or better.

wow I don't even know where to begin

Let me tell you how raiding in EQ works. The Beast raid to name one, requires 54 players.

...

Well what you describe is an idiot check... You're probably wiping because of idiots. EQ raiding was never hard. Most players just sucked badly. It just required hours and hours of grinding and being able to find dozens of players that can do the same. It is MUCH more obvious in a game like TERA, it is day and night when you play with skilled players.

  Nikopol

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/08
Posts: 627

Brought to you by... The Spirit of Nikopol.

3/24/13 6:58:11 PM#120

In action games, your character levels YOU. :P

 

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