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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » [POLL] Tab Targeting vs Action Combat

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306 posts found
  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1949

3/23/13 11:27:41 AM#21
Originally posted by strangiato2112

What I really miss about EQ is that the combat was focused on group interplay.

And I hate games where you have to constantly mash buttons, and this is both systems.  For instance, i find Rift rogues unplayable due to the 1 sec gcd where it comes down to mash mash mash mash.

 

I want combat to be interesting and dangerous and reward teamwork.  

 

I also hate the trend towards danger in numbers, big aoe fests.  Individual mobs are rarely dangerous anymore.

I'm the same as you.

I hate the trend towards console play, removing any strategy and making the game look like Street Fighter with swords.

Community, raids and group play reply on slow strategic and calculated combat, it requires tab targeting because it allows for target selection, strategy discussion, pulling strategies and CC...while action combat relies on button mashing solo play.

I'm sure it's fun to see your character swing and jump like a ballerina, but at the end of the day you're losing out on strategy and group interaction and raiding. Action combat raiding is a joke.

I'm boggled at the fact that many recent MMO give you the option to play with a controller.

I thought WoW was a casual game, action MMO take it to the next level and dumb down gameplay into dodge-combo fests while removing every strategy element.

  LordSneerg

Novice Member

Joined: 3/21/13
Posts: 121

3/23/13 11:30:18 AM#22
I am old school and prefer the tab targeting system.  I am not so much into the action thing.  I leave action games to my PS.  I want a good old fashioned mmo that has been updated graphically.  That would include the tab targeting. 
  AeonZen

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 44

Vicarious

3/23/13 11:45:11 AM#23
Originally posted by dimasok
Action combat. After playing TERA, playing any other MMOs with regular tab targeting is an exercise in frustration and anger.

lol :D

I play GW2 and TERA sooooooo Action!

 

  Karelia

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/12
Posts: 688

 
OP  3/23/13 11:54:04 AM#24
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by strangiato2112

What I really miss about EQ is that the combat was focused on group interplay.

And I hate games where you have to constantly mash buttons, and this is both systems.  For instance, i find Rift rogues unplayable due to the 1 sec gcd where it comes down to mash mash mash mash.

 

I want combat to be interesting and dangerous and reward teamwork.  

 

I also hate the trend towards danger in numbers, big aoe fests.  Individual mobs are rarely dangerous anymore.

I'm the same as you.

I hate the trend towards console play, removing any strategy and making the game look like Street Fighter with swords.

Community, raids and group play reply on slow strategic and calculated combat, it requires tab targeting because it allows for target selection, strategy discussion, pulling strategies and CC...while action combat relies on button mashing solo play.

I'm sure it's fun to see your character swing and jump like a ballerina, but at the end of the day you're losing out on strategy and group interaction and raiding. Action combat raiding is a joke.

I'm boggled at the fact that many recent MMO give you the option to play with a controller.

I thought WoW was a casual game, action MMO take it to the next level and dumb down gameplay into dodge-combo fests while removing every strategy element.

 

this.

if you like raiding then there is no place for action combat in a mmo

  Nikopol

Novice Member

Joined: 11/21/08
Posts: 627

Brought to you by... The Spirit of Nikopol.

3/23/13 11:55:54 AM#25

In RPG I'm for not only tab-target but also keeping it as slow as possible, and prioritizing your character's power over your skills.

Also, MMOs are games I expect to play hours upon hours sometimes. When there's too much action, too much button-mashing, it just wears me out. I like MMOs where I can relax a bit.

Thinking about it, I guess this is pretty much the opposite of what I expect from FPSs and MMOFPSs: In those games, I hate slow, deliberate, stealthy and even tactical gameplay and want to just charge in! :)

 

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

3/23/13 11:56:31 AM#26
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Quirhid

Don't be a fool. Action combat can and has just as much tactics, CC and everything else than any other method of combat. It only looks like a button mash to someone who doesn't understand what is happening.

You're letting your ignorance show.

What are you even talking about. Show me one game where you need to split a single mob out of a pack of 10 that doesn't use tab targeting.

Show me one.

Explain to me how you would even select a target in a game without targeting....how would that even work??

I've played non-target games like Vindictus, strategy is non-existent in those games, they're button combo mashfests zerg galore solofests and it's a direct result of their console combat style.

You have to do it all the time in tera boss fights. Boss fights often have multiple mobs and you have to pull one out whie killing the rest ect. I don't know about vindictus never played it but games like tera are not button mashers ( well I guess they are if you don't knwo what you're doing but then so are tab target mmos). They have targets like any mmo you just can't lock on and fire smart rounds over your shoulder at them. You have to actually aim.

Keep in mind action combat is very new to mmos. So it's still evolving. tab targeting hasn't really changed that much other than say guild wars2 which....is just evolving into action combat.

  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1949

3/23/13 11:59:11 AM#27
Originally posted by DamonVile

You have to do it all the time in tera boss fights. Boss fights often have multiple mobs and you have to pull one out whie killing the rest ect.

how do you pull one out without being able to target it?

how do you mark the mob to others?

or is it that you aggro zerg both and kite the other one, that's not CC imo

 

  Pie_Rat

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/05
Posts: 310

3/23/13 11:59:44 AM#28

People are mixing things up. Shooter type action combat requires more skill than tab targettting because you have to precision aim. (but even that is agueable since shooters typically use a very small amount of keybound actions, unlike most tab target MMOs).

MMO action combat on the other doesn't require more skill at all, I'd argue even less. The hit box is HUGE, you don't need to aim, just face the right direction and spam your attacks...At least this is true for melee combat, ranged combat might require a little more aiming skills but nowhere near as much as in shooters.

Also, like someone mentionned earlier, if you're facing a group of enemies, you're still gonna be using the same attacks and rotation because you can't target anything and therefore you can't prioritize kills, CC a particular mob or do anything of that order. (unless the game has mob collison, in which case yes you can single out a particular target because the mobs won't all be on top of each other)


So no, action combat MMOs don't require more skill than tab targetting MMOs. They are just different and require different skills. Get over yourselves.

Currently playing: Football Manager 2015.

Getting more kicks out of a single player sports RPG than any MMO on the market. A sad state of affairs indeed...

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/23/13 12:02:48 PM#29
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by DamonVile

You have to do it all the time in tera boss fights. Boss fights often have multiple mobs and you have to pull one out whie killing the rest ect.

how do you pull one out without being able to target it?

or is it that you aggro zerg both and kite the other one, that's not CC imo

of course you can target it.. just because you cant tab target doesn't mean you don't aim at it.. works the same as a tab target game  just don't need to tab through or click on the enemy you just aim at it.. Tera is a holy trinity game and the mechanics in that regard work like any other holy trinity game.. only time this is an issue in a game like tera is there is a bunch of enemies the same size in a group and you try to select one from the group.. you can't really do that.. but never had that issue as the bosses and ones you want to single out are always larger models anyway

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1949

3/23/13 12:05:14 PM#30
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by DamonVile

You have to do it all the time in tera boss fights. Boss fights often have multiple mobs and you have to pull one out whie killing the rest ect.

how do you pull one out without being able to target it?

or is it that you aggro zerg both and kite the other one, that's not CC imo

of course you can target it.. just because you cant tab target doesn't mean you don't aim at it.. works the same as a tab target game  just don't need to tab through or click on the enemy you just aim at it.. Tera is a holy trinity game and the mechanics in that regard work like any other holy trinity game

you guys are making very little sense

Let's say there are 5 mobs surrounding one in the center, tell me how you mark the center mob and CC it

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/23/13 12:06:19 PM#31
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by DamonVile

You have to do it all the time in tera boss fights. Boss fights often have multiple mobs and you have to pull one out whie killing the rest ect.

how do you pull one out without being able to target it?

or is it that you aggro zerg both and kite the other one, that's not CC imo

of course you can target it.. just because you cant tab target doesn't mean you don't aim at it.. works the same as a tab target game  just don't need to tab through or click on the enemy you just aim at it.. Tera is a holy trinity game and the mechanics in that regard work like any other holy trinity game

you guys are making very little sense

Let's say there are 5 mobs surrounding one in the center, tell me how you mark the center mob and CC it

i edited my last post with the answer to that

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

3/23/13 12:09:33 PM#32
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by DamonVile

You have to do it all the time in tera boss fights. Boss fights often have multiple mobs and you have to pull one out whie killing the rest ect.

how do you pull one out without being able to target it?

or is it that you aggro zerg both and kite the other one, that's not CC imo

of course you can target it.. just because you cant tab target doesn't mean you don't aim at it.. works the same as a tab target game  just don't need to tab through or click on the enemy you just aim at it.. Tera is a holy trinity game and the mechanics in that regard work like any other holy trinity game

you guys are making very little sense

Let's say there are 5 mobs surrounding one in the center, tell me how you mark the center mob and CC it

Action combat still has a target....the mob lights up when you put your target over it and shows it's info like in tab lock. It just doesn't lock on like in tab target. You can mark mobs in tera with sybols just like in wow. And you can target one mob. Some spells even " lock " on durring their casting.

  Eir_S

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4707

GW2 socialist.

3/23/13 12:09:42 PM#33
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by DamonVile

You have to do it all the time in tera boss fights. Boss fights often have multiple mobs and you have to pull one out whie killing the rest ect.

how do you pull one out without being able to target it?

or is it that you aggro zerg both and kite the other one, that's not CC imo

of course you can target it.. just because you cant tab target doesn't mean you don't aim at it.. works the same as a tab target game  just don't need to tab through or click on the enemy you just aim at it.. Tera is a holy trinity game and the mechanics in that regard work like any other holy trinity game.. only time this is an issue in a game like tera is there is a bunch of enemies the same size in a group and you try to select one from the group.. you can't really do that.. but never had that issue as the bosses and ones you want to single out are always larger models anyway

In this regard, I can see CalmOceans' dilemma.  Say that the model ISN'T as large as Tera bosses, say... the bombers from GW2's lvl 40 dungeon.  Now they need to be burned down very fast or they'll wipe everyone, but in the confusion, how  exactly would you target them?  They're the same size as everything else.

In an action combat game, most wide swings will just hit everything anyway.

  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1949

3/23/13 12:10:34 PM#34

doesn't that show an issue with the action gameplay you claimed is fine

In Tera it isn't an issue you say because you never have to CC like that and when you do, Tera already prelocked you onto the larger mob, so tera does the targeting for you.

isn't this exactly what we have been saying here, that it removes strategy?

  Bossalinie

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/29/07
Posts: 632

3/23/13 12:10:47 PM#35
Originally posted by Manolios
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by strangiato2112

What I really miss about EQ is that the combat was focused on group interplay.

And I hate games where you have to constantly mash buttons, and this is both systems.  For instance, i find Rift rogues unplayable due to the 1 sec gcd where it comes down to mash mash mash mash.

 

I want combat to be interesting and dangerous and reward teamwork.  

 

I also hate the trend towards danger in numbers, big aoe fests.  Individual mobs are rarely dangerous anymore.

I'm the same as you.

I hate the trend towards console play, removing any strategy and making the game look like Street Fighter with swords.

Community, raids and group play reply on slow strategic and calculated combat, it requires tab targeting because it allows for target selection, strategy discussion, pulling strategies and CC...while action combat relies on button mashing solo play.

I'm sure it's fun to see your character swing and jump like a ballerina, but at the end of the day you're losing out on strategy and group interaction and raiding. Action combat raiding is a joke.

I'm boggled at the fact that many recent MMO give you the option to play with a controller.

I thought WoW was a casual game, action MMO take it to the next level and dumb down gameplay into dodge-combo fests while removing every strategy element.

 

this.

if you like raiding then there is no place for action combat in a mmo

It can be done, it just required more skills than you might be will to put out. You can't tell me that if you are guy who likes to be challenged, obtaining a boss victory using tanking and crowd controlling methods via action combat absolutely craps on tab target fights. 

Tab target lovers spam more than action combat fans...you just don't notice because the UI controls their fire. 

  BadSpock

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7769

Logic be damned!

3/23/13 12:11:49 PM#36

I've found I greatly prefer tab target and set group-roles in my MMOs.

 

Now Playing: Destiny, WoW

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/23/13 12:11:55 PM#37
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by DamonVile

You have to do it all the time in tera boss fights. Boss fights often have multiple mobs and you have to pull one out whie killing the rest ect.

how do you pull one out without being able to target it?

or is it that you aggro zerg both and kite the other one, that's not CC imo

of course you can target it.. just because you cant tab target doesn't mean you don't aim at it.. works the same as a tab target game  just don't need to tab through or click on the enemy you just aim at it.. Tera is a holy trinity game and the mechanics in that regard work like any other holy trinity game.. only time this is an issue in a game like tera is there is a bunch of enemies the same size in a group and you try to select one from the group.. you can't really do that.. but never had that issue as the bosses and ones you want to single out are always larger models anyway

In this regard, I can see CalmOceans' dilemma.  Say that the model ISN'T as large as Tera bosses, say... the bombers from GW2's lvl 40 dungeon.  Now they need to be burned down very fast or they'll wipe everyone, but in the confusion, how would exactly would you target them?  They're the same size as everything else.

gw2 has tab targetting so it wouldn't be an issue in gw2.. in games without it i never had the issue because ones you would want to select out of a group had large models so you can easily target them

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  BahamutKaiser

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 297

On hiatus for a while guys, MMOs still aren't interesting me.

3/23/13 12:13:34 PM#38

Action combat can be widely interpreted into all sorts of methods... there are free target attacks, auto target attacks and honestly, lock on is... well a pretty dated action combat mechanic (Ocarina of Time) which can allow tabbing as well...

Honestly, it would only take a small amount of ingenuity to design a system operating both. Even in an action oriented combat system like Vindictus, the AI is able to operate foes and plan out attacks against targets... it wouldn't be that hard to program both into a homoginous system...

Peronsally, I like Free targetting with assisted target aquisition... If that's hard to understand, I mean something along the lines of old school armor core, you have to point in the general direction of the opponent, and than it would auto select the foe closest to your crosshair, but you could also toggle between targets within your firing window.  For melee attacks, it doesn't have to be that complicated, since your using basic proximity and attacking in the obvious direction of your foe, but for ranged attacks it allows a small amount of accuracy to play a part, but not make it so specific you have to target your foes exactly.

The reason I don't like tab targetting is because it naturally subtracts the use of AoE attacks on optimal positions where you can hit more foes instead of directly at a single target. But honestly, a system can be designed to do both... even though I feel tab targetting makes it a little to easy to aquire your target though.

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/23/13 12:13:35 PM#39
Originally posted by CalmOceans

doesn't that show an issue with the action gameplay you claimed is fine

In Tera it isn't an issue you say because you never have to CC like that and when you do, Tera already prelocked you onto the larger mob, so tera does the targeting for you.

isn't this exactly what we have been saying here, that it removes strategy?

not sure what you mean by this

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1949

3/23/13 12:16:53 PM#40
Originally posted by Bossalinie

It can be done, it just required more skills than you might be will to put out. You can't tell me that if you are guy who likes to be challenged, obtaining a boss victory using tanking and crowd controlling methods via action combat absolutely craps on tab target fights. 

Tab target lovers spam more than action combat fans...you just don't notice because the UI controls their fire. 

by skill you guys are talking about action combos I am assuming, I played vindictus to lvl 70, the raids are basically like playing street fighter, you dodge-combo-and button bash like a lunatic

EQ raids which I enjoy, are slow, they take coordination, half the time is spent discussing strategies, you need to be very aware of others, you are in constant contact with others through chat and it's a slow and very organised event that takes practice, some will call them boring because they are not head-on fights, they are organised and strategic fights

I don't want skill in my MMO if it means Street Fighter skill, I don't want to play a console game on my PC

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