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General Discussion  » Single player game advertising as multiplayer? Not sure how I feel

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64 posts found
  User Deleted
3/22/13 2:07:27 PM#21
Someone please make a good multiplayer Skyrim mod and let Zenimax do whatever they are planning to.
  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

 
OP  3/22/13 2:21:14 PM#22

People act like they want the same end-game Skyrim had.

 

I dont know how many people would pay $15 a month to play Skyrim. Cyrodill isnt gonna make people play for a year

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2616

110100100

3/22/13 2:31:37 PM#23

 


Originally posted by JasonJ
[mod edit]

 

i don't see it as being vastly different, i just see a lot of whining, as usual.

i am a fan of the IP as well and looking forward to this game.

it always makes me laugh when people think "actual fans of the IP" are only those that agree with them lol

also, TES games were never sandbox games, its hilarious to see people act like they were these hardcore sandbox games that didn't have quests or a main story, which is the backbone of every ES game and definitely not a sanbox element.

you can call that "blindly defending" even though i formulated that opinion off of fact, but i call it being realistic.

 

  GreenHell

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 1341

3/22/13 2:33:06 PM#24
Originally posted by hMJem

Smedley about EQ Next (Which is also at PAX East) :

"Once we made that shift, everything else had to follow. And what we saw was RIFT. We saw the writing on the wall with SWTOR. We saw The Secret World. We saw all these games that we knew were in development and very high-quality, but we saw what was going to happen -- this big spike and then it goes down."

"That's the truth of what's been happening with MMOs. The fans need to realize that if you don't change the nature of what these games are, you're not going to change that core behavior. We want to make games that last more than 15 years. That's why we made the decision to change it," he added.

“Everybody has been making the same game since Everquest, really,” says Smedley. “If you look back, Ultima Online was out before us and really, all the current crop of MMOs are a lot like Everquest – they’re in that style. They’re great because the quality level has really improved, but nobody has really changed the game. the previous designs we had for the next Everquest were cookie-cutter, they were ‘me too’. We had some great, innovative things in there and they’d have been great games in themselves, but they wouldn’t have been enough to keep an audience. We’ve had people playing Everquest for 13 years and we kept that in our mind as the main goal when making Everquest Next.”

Bold words! But, in any case, the game seems to have gone down well with SOE staff at its internal unveiling.

“I was really nervous about [showing SOE staff the game],” says Smedley. “We showed it to them on Monday, and I couldn’t sleep on Sunday night because I was scared. We’ve thrown out two previous designs of the game to go with something pretty crazy and… well, it’s awesome. When the team saw it I could barely breathe when they were watching it. But when I’d finished they were clapping and cheering – and these guys are gamers, so they’re not afraid to call bullshit when they see us make a mistake. It’s happened before. We’ve made mistakes, and the guys internally will call us on it every time. But they loved this, and we really felt vindicated that the way we’re going with Everquest Next is the right way. I feel good about it. We’re not trying to make WOW2 or Everquest 2.5 – we’re making something that we think will define the next generation of MMOs.”

 

 

I would love to believe good old Smed but everytime he speaks I can't help but think of a used car salesman. I'm not bitter about SWG. The cu, nge or it shutting down. When he says "we’re making something that we think will define the next generation of MMOs.” I can't help but wonder if SOE is really up to that task. To make an MMO that will change the industry and define what an MMO will be is a pretty tall order for a company with a track record like SOE. I have a feeling this will be like SWG. Great concepts, horrible implementation. Rushed out long before it's ready.

If any company should have learned from its mistakes it's SOE. Maybe Smed has changed his focus away from chaisng the WoW dollar. Maybe without LA SOE can make that type of game. His words are what I want to hear its just the source that bothers me.

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2616

110100100

3/22/13 2:35:47 PM#25


Originally posted by hMJem
Ask WoW players themselves, ask on their forums if you want proof. If you ask"How many of you have read every quest you ever picked up?" I'd be surprised if you got 1 person to post "I have indeed read every single quest among hundreds and thousands I've picked up"

maybe that is because its all text? ever think of that? why do you think TESO are doing voice over? so people actually feel a part of the story that is going on and not forced to read text.


  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

 
OP  3/22/13 2:36:53 PM#26
Originally posted by GreenHell
Originally posted by hMJem

Smedley about EQ Next (Which is also at PAX East) :

"Once we made that shift, everything else had to follow. And what we saw was RIFT. We saw the writing on the wall with SWTOR. We saw The Secret World. We saw all these games that we knew were in development and very high-quality, but we saw what was going to happen -- this big spike and then it goes down."

"That's the truth of what's been happening with MMOs. The fans need to realize that if you don't change the nature of what these games are, you're not going to change that core behavior. We want to make games that last more than 15 years. That's why we made the decision to change it," he added.

“Everybody has been making the same game since Everquest, really,” says Smedley. “If you look back, Ultima Online was out before us and really, all the current crop of MMOs are a lot like Everquest – they’re in that style. They’re great because the quality level has really improved, but nobody has really changed the game. the previous designs we had for the next Everquest were cookie-cutter, they were ‘me too’. We had some great, innovative things in there and they’d have been great games in themselves, but they wouldn’t have been enough to keep an audience. We’ve had people playing Everquest for 13 years and we kept that in our mind as the main goal when making Everquest Next.”

Bold words! But, in any case, the game seems to have gone down well with SOE staff at its internal unveiling.

“I was really nervous about [showing SOE staff the game],” says Smedley. “We showed it to them on Monday, and I couldn’t sleep on Sunday night because I was scared. We’ve thrown out two previous designs of the game to go with something pretty crazy and… well, it’s awesome. When the team saw it I could barely breathe when they were watching it. But when I’d finished they were clapping and cheering – and these guys are gamers, so they’re not afraid to call bullshit when they see us make a mistake. It’s happened before. We’ve made mistakes, and the guys internally will call us on it every time. But they loved this, and we really felt vindicated that the way we’re going with Everquest Next is the right way. I feel good about it. We’re not trying to make WOW2 or Everquest 2.5 – we’re making something that we think will define the next generation of MMOs.”

 

 

I would love to believe good old Smed but everytime he speaks I can't help but think of a used car salesman. I'm not bitter about SWG. The cu, nge or it shutting down. When he says "we’re making something that we think will define the next generation of MMOs.” I can't help but wonder if SOE is really up to that task. To make an MMO that will change the industry and define what an MMO will be is a pretty tall order for a company with a track record like SOE. I have a feeling this will be like SWG. Great concepts, horrible implementation. Rushed out long before it's ready.

If any company should have learned from its mistakes it's SOE. Maybe Smed has changed his focus away from chaisng the WoW dollar. Maybe without LA SOE can make that type of game. His words are what I want to hear its just the source that bothers me.

He clearly knows his Everquest though, and when he's talking about EQ, you know he knows what he's doing because EQ was the biggest dog before WoW took over.

 

SOE has everything to lose with Everquest Next. Bethesda has nothing to lose with ESO. If it tanks, they're okay as a business, everyone will buy the next Elder Scrolls single player game the night it comes out and people would just pretend ESO never happened.

  steelwind

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/04/04
Posts: 246

3/22/13 2:40:29 PM#27
Every time I hear full VO in MMOs the first thing I think is what features could have been in the game if they ddn't invest in the heavy resource of VO. Voice over comes at a high cost and just for the luxury of not having to read text will never equate to long term commitment of its players.
  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2616

110100100

3/22/13 2:41:21 PM#28


Originally posted by hMJem
You see, the difference is WoW doesnt try to protect you from harms way of any human inter-action when doing questing, if that is your argument.

sorry but that just isn't true. you don't even step into a zone where you can be attacked until you are close to level 20 and wow features instance dungeons.

wow also has phasing, the same type of technology TESO is using with their main story quests

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

 
OP  3/22/13 2:42:20 PM#29
Originally posted by baphamet

 


Originally posted by hMJem
Ask WoW players themselves, ask on their forums if you want proof. If you ask"How many of you have read every quest you ever picked up?" I'd be surprised if you got 1 person to post "I have indeed read every single quest among hundreds and thousands I've picked up"

 

maybe that is because its all text? ever think of that? why do you think TESO are doing voice over? so people actually feel a part of the story that is going on and not forced to read text.

 

As someone who is a fast reader, voice acting isnt a "Ohhhh sweet!" for me. Sometimes, the voice acting can take longer than reading it. I guarantee you there will be a good amount of people who just mash esc to ignore the voice acting and go on with the quest.

 

And as ive said 1000x, that isnt a problem. WoW never focused on character growth and YOUR story. MMOs that focus on that struggle becaues they invest so much in the story experience they want to make sure other players dont kill you or interefere with it, so they phase you off from everyone else (As ESO is doing during the main story, its ONLY YOU phased off) and then they also cant nail the end-game. An MMO that focuses on keeping the player away from other players? That isnt right.

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

3/22/13 2:45:36 PM#30
Originally posted by baphamet

 

i don't see it as being vastly different, i just see a lot of whining, as usual.

i am a fan of the IP as well and looking forward to this game.

you can call that "blindly defending" even though i formulated that opinion off of fact, but i call it being realistic.

 

 Give me the facts that show its CLOSE to TES outside of graphics and NAMES.

No fan of the IP is going to look at the elves and go, yeah thats TES and I like it! No fan is going to go, yeah TES with racial and faction choices taken away!. No fan of the IP is going to say, yeah, please change the lore to fit that DaoC design even though MMOs can be made open world and knows full well that at the time period of this game, the races were mixed from 1000+ years of two different empires bringing their slaves into their lands, their being freed and choosing to stay.

No. Only DaoC fans and MMORPG fans desperate for some remote chance of yet another new MMO being just good enough to hold them off until the next bastardization comes out...and they dont even realize its their OWN fault for so many piss poor MMOs being made, open your MOUTH, use your voice and let the developers know you are not going to give them a penny until they wake the hell up and start coming up with NEW ideas that dont limit gameplay but instead expands it with NEW ideas and things to do.

  Ecoces

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 795

3/22/13 2:46:32 PM#31
Originally posted by hMJem

Smedley about EQ Next


 

quoting smedley? and i have seen you do it a few times do you most SOE players can't stand the guy and think he is a lying POS?

 

so i wouldn't quote him too much. he spews a lot of nonsense, i put him up there with guys like Richard Garriot.

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2616

110100100

3/22/13 2:49:14 PM#32


Originally posted by steelwind
Every time I hear full VO in MMOs the first thing I think is what features could have been in the game if they ddn't invest in the heavy resource of VO. Voice over comes at a high cost and just for the luxury of not having to read text will never equate to long term commitment of its players.

how many resources does voice overs alone actually take up? that's what i want to know.

i realize that VO combined with cutscene's with every NPC interaction (like what SWTOR has for example) is definitely a big resource sink and would be difficult to keep pumping out new content.

but EQ2 has voice overs as well that were optional, that's all it was, just VO and not cutscene's.

if TESO is anything like the other games and their VO's, i don't see it as an issue.

  GreenHell

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 1341

3/22/13 2:49:34 PM#33
He clearly knows his Everquest though, and when he's talking about EQ, you know he knows what he's doing because EQ was the biggest dog before WoW took over.

 

SOE has everything to lose with Everquest Next. Bethesda has nothing to lose with ESO. If it tanks, they're okay as a business, everyone will buy the next Elder Scrolls single player game the night it comes out and people would just pretend ESO never happened.

Yea I'm not saying he doesn't know his EQ but he isn't trying to remake EQ he is trying to make something that will redefine what an MMO is today. This isnt 1996 when he first came up with the concept. There isn't just UO for competition. The market has changed so much and SOE just always seems to be in the background trying to catch up

I agree with you that SOE has a lot riding on that game. I guess time will tell. Smed should really just get someone else to do the talking for this game. 

  Telondariel

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/11/10
Posts: 866

3/22/13 2:53:43 PM#34
Originally posted by hMJem

The main story is phased off from friends.

 

 

"How do you tell every player that they’re the saviour of the world in an MMO? It’s a sticky question that many MMOs face, and that few deal with especially well. Tom sat down with game director Matt Firor to find out how Zenimax approach the problem in The Elder Scrolls Online.

“The way we do that in Elder Scrolls Online is there are parts of the game that you just do solo and you just do in a story instance. So the main backbone story of the game, which is your interaction with Molag Bal, one of the Daedric princes, you’re the hero in that story, so you experience that only yourself.

It’s a familiar technique we’ve seen before in Star Wars: The Old Republic, LoTRO and many other MMOs that do their storytelling in carefully choreographed instances. "

 

When you go to other factions after being Level 50, youre in a different phase of it and can only see people of your faction doing the same thing. 

 

I feel like everyone is getting sucked into this "Mega-server" hype feeling like its sandbox and open and it'll be lively -- But when you read and listen, it reminds me exactly of SWTOR -- Which, TANKED HARD compared to expectations. And it sounds like this game is going to make the exact same mistake -- Single player experience when leveling up, and no real end-game to keep you playing. Yes, I know you can quest together besides the Main story, but we keep hearing more and more things phased off.

 

It's a shame because I want to love this game, but dont want to play another game like SWTOR where it feels like you're playing on a dead server because you arent inter-acting with others.

 

I am fully excited for Everquest Next though which is also supposed to come out this year. They're saying its going to be "the largest Sandbox MMORPG ever".

 

Maybe I'm old school. I like grouping up. I like the feeling of "I need you, and you need me" and the feeling of accomplishment upon completing a group task. And with crafting/cyrodill and 4 man dungeons that dont give better gear than crafting, I feel like once I hit max level I'd be done even though they advertise "NO! YOU REALLY ARENT!" 

 

It seems like theyre trying to advertise a Sandbox MMORPG when its the exact opposite -- very restricted, very carebear.

 

I recommend anyone who wants a true sandbox MMO to try Everquest Next when it's out. SOE has everything to lose if they cant nail Everquest Next. Even 100,000 subscribers for two months is probably a win for Zenimax. They're comparing it to the feel of EQ1/EQOA, which were beautiful.

Hmm, "Sky is falling" much?

 

GW2 has a Personal Story as well, although you can take someone in it with you it is designed as a solo storymode.  There is still the rest of the game, where you can group to your heart's content.  Giving this thread your title is misleading, as it is definitely not a single player game.  You are taking one element and being sensationalist about it.

 

In addition, EQN has very little to no details known about it.  Smedley has said it has "sandbox elements", which does not equal a full blown sandbox game.  Again, you are grabbing at a little bit of information and trying to make it into something to suit your needs.

 

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

 
OP  3/22/13 2:55:34 PM#35

You know why companies make good games? It's usually before they're famous or when they had a downfall. There are few companies who are FORCED to make a good game or else jobs are lost. SOE with EQN is one of them. I bet no one loses a job even if ESO were to turn out to be the worst MMORPG of all time. Bethesda would shrug "Oh well, we still suckered people into subscribing and got their money off that + the copy of the game"

 

its funny, because people refused to believe the main story in ESO is solo play only. They were like "GIVE ME THE PROOF BRO" and when I did they left.

 

An MMO that tries to be a single player game by sheltering you from other players. All I can say really. Apparently long are the days where you play with others in an MMO.

  Telondariel

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/11/10
Posts: 866

3/22/13 2:56:58 PM#36
Originally posted by JasonJ
Originally posted by baphamet

 

i don't see it as being vastly different, i just see a lot of whining, as usual.

i am a fan of the IP as well and looking forward to this game.

you can call that "blindly defending" even though i formulated that opinion off of fact, but i call it being realistic.

 

 Give me the facts that show its CLOSE to TES outside of graphics and NAMES.

No fan of the IP is going to look at the elves and go, yeah thats TES and I like it! No fan is going to go, yeah TES with racial and faction choices taken away!. No fan of the IP is going to say, yeah, please change the lore to fit that DaoC design even though MMOs can be made open world and knows full well that at the time period of this game, the races were mixed from 1000+ years of two different empires bringing their slaves into their lands, their being freed and choosing to stay.

No. Only DaoC fans and MMORPG fans desperate for some remote chance of yet another new MMO being just good enough to hold them off until the next bastardization comes out...and they dont even realize its their OWN fault for so many piss poor MMOs being made, open your MOUTH, use your voice and let the developers know you are not going to give them a penny until they wake the hell up and start coming up with NEW ideas that dont limit gameplay but instead expands it with NEW ideas and things to do.

Or, rather than repeatedly trashing a game you apparently have no desire to play, you could put your energies into something more positive? 

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

 
OP  3/22/13 2:58:54 PM#37
Originally posted by Telondariel
Originally posted by hMJem

The main story is phased off from friends.

 

 

"How do you tell every player that they’re the saviour of the world in an MMO? It’s a sticky question that many MMOs face, and that few deal with especially well. Tom sat down with game director Matt Firor to find out how Zenimax approach the problem in The Elder Scrolls Online.

“The way we do that in Elder Scrolls Online is there are parts of the game that you just do solo and you just do in a story instance. So the main backbone story of the game, which is your interaction with Molag Bal, one of the Daedric princes, you’re the hero in that story, so you experience that only yourself.

It’s a familiar technique we’ve seen before in Star Wars: The Old Republic, LoTRO and many other MMOs that do their storytelling in carefully choreographed instances. "

 

When you go to other factions after being Level 50, youre in a different phase of it and can only see people of your faction doing the same thing. 

 

I feel like everyone is getting sucked into this "Mega-server" hype feeling like its sandbox and open and it'll be lively -- But when you read and listen, it reminds me exactly of SWTOR -- Which, TANKED HARD compared to expectations. And it sounds like this game is going to make the exact same mistake -- Single player experience when leveling up, and no real end-game to keep you playing. Yes, I know you can quest together besides the Main story, but we keep hearing more and more things phased off.

 

It's a shame because I want to love this game, but dont want to play another game like SWTOR where it feels like you're playing on a dead server because you arent inter-acting with others.

 

I am fully excited for Everquest Next though which is also supposed to come out this year. They're saying its going to be "the largest Sandbox MMORPG ever".

 

Maybe I'm old school. I like grouping up. I like the feeling of "I need you, and you need me" and the feeling of accomplishment upon completing a group task. And with crafting/cyrodill and 4 man dungeons that dont give better gear than crafting, I feel like once I hit max level I'd be done even though they advertise "NO! YOU REALLY ARENT!" 

 

It seems like theyre trying to advertise a Sandbox MMORPG when its the exact opposite -- very restricted, very carebear.

 

I recommend anyone who wants a true sandbox MMO to try Everquest Next when it's out. SOE has everything to lose if they cant nail Everquest Next. Even 100,000 subscribers for two months is probably a win for Zenimax. They're comparing it to the feel of EQ1/EQOA, which were beautiful.

Hmm, "Sky is falling" much?

 

GW2 has a Personal Story as well, although you can take someone in it with you it is designed as a solo storymode.  There is still the rest of the game, where you can group to your heart's content.  Giving this thread your title is misleading, as it is definitely not a single player game.  You are taking one element and being sensationalist about it.

 

In addition, EQN has very little to no details known about it.  Smedley has said it has "sandbox elements", which does not equal a full blown sandbox game.  Again, you are grabbing at a little bit of information and trying to make it into something to suit your needs.

 

Phased off from every other human player when doing the main story

 

Phased off from the other factions when doing their 50+ content

 

Phased off in some dungeons

 

Smedley said EQN is the largest sandbox MMORPG of all time, not "some sandbox elements" That is from his mouth

 

EQN is also at PAX East this weekend, and its supposed to release this year. My wish would be that both games push each other. Rarely do you see two MMOS scheduled to come out around the same time. And even if they are different, there are some people who would buy both. I know I will probably buy both. I think competition is good for companies. Jobs on the line hinging on a games success is good.

 

 

  LordSneerg

Novice Member

Joined: 3/21/13
Posts: 121

3/22/13 3:00:58 PM#38
I love when people trash games that they have never played.  I think we call them trolls.  If you don't like the game don't play.  I just wish the staements that are being made are true.  That is not the case here.  This is just a flame post.  Flame on !
  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2616

110100100

3/22/13 3:03:07 PM#39


Originally posted by JasonJ

Originally posted by baphamet   i don't see it as being vastly different, i just see a lot of whining, as usual. i am a fan of the IP as well and looking forward to this game. you can call that "blindly defending" even though i formulated that opinion off of fact, but i call it being realistic.  
 Give me the facts that show its CLOSE to TES outside of graphics and NAMES.

No fan of the IP is going to look at the elves and go, yeah thats TES and I like it! No fan is going to go, yeah TES with racial and faction choices taken away!. No fan of the IP is going to say, yeah, please change the lore to fit that DaoC design even though MMOs can be made open world and knows full well that at the time period of this game, the races were mixed from 1000+ years of two different empires bringing their slaves into their lands, their being freed and choosing to stay.

No. Only DaoC fans and MMORPG fans desperate for some remote chance of yet another new MMO being just good enough to hold them off until the next bastardization comes out...and they dont even realize its their OWN fault for so many piss poor MMOs being made, open your MOUTH, use your voice and let the developers know you are not going to give them a penny until they wake the hell up and start coming up with NEW ideas that dont limit gameplay but instead expands it with NEW ideas and things to do.


you are not very realistic, are you? you want me to provide you with facts that it looks like the other games?

umm, that would strictly be an opinion based off of very limited resources. here is a fact for you, you haven't played the game and neither have i.

in fact, we have seen very limited actual in game footage of the game, you cant even find decent screens of the character models.

yet here you are raging about how they look lol

here is another fact, not every fan of the ES series is nerd raging because the mmo doesn't look or feel exactly like skyrim, that is your issue.

i don't have a problem with how mmo's are made, i realize that no mmo has a long shelf life anymore, there is too much competition these days.

sorry if i don't take your advice and come to the forums crying constantly to try and get my way and force devs to make a game the way i want, but good luck with that heh.

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

 
OP  3/22/13 3:03:19 PM#40
Originally posted by LordSneerg
I love when people trash games that they have never played.  I think we call them trolls.  If you don't like the game don't play.  I just wish the staements that are being made are true.  That is not the case here.  This is just a flame post.  Flame on !

What part of my original post isnt true? That was from the man himself. You are instanced off when doing the main story.

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