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General Discussion  » There are no raids... can you live with that?

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549 posts found
  Celcius

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/20/04
Posts: 931

3/22/13 8:31:07 AM#61

I like how people claim they are missing a "large chunk" of people who play MMOs without raiding. This is simply not true at all. A ton of people who play MMOs don't even hit max level, let alone raid. Raiding has been the least popular part of every MMO since it's inception. Most people don't have the kind of time required for it.

GW2 has over 3 million people playing it who knew there would not be raids available. This is based on US/EU alone so consider that GW2's population is probably as much as/ more then WoW's NA population and WoW has probably the highest percentage of raiders of any MMO. I would say that is a pretty good indication that people generally don't play MMOS for raids.

  Yaevindusk

Elite Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1149

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

3/22/13 8:33:22 AM#62

 

I'm done with the whole raid scene myself.  It's very much a been there, done that thing for me.  It may become a big thing for consoles in the next generation, as trends on the computer tend to be brought over to the consoles when they die down.  I remember when 3-d online multiplayer FPS was a big thing on computers back in the mid 90's with Starsiege Tribes.  Then it exploded with Halo for the consoles and moved onto Call of Duty and Battlefield with the generation after that.  It's only a matter of time when 20-40 people raids are a big thing with console gamers, especially with PS4's interconnectivity in addition to perhaps more Moba style games if they manage to get on the next generation with their new network infrastructure (of which I am wholely ignorant of as there is little information regarding it except for what they'd like it to be).

 

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  jdnewell

Elite Member

Joined: 7/04/06
Posts: 1821

3/22/13 8:34:37 AM#63
Originally posted by Winelen
Originally posted by jdnewell

For me no raids is a positive thing and will actually be a consideration on to buy or not.

If it had raids as an end game then it would be an automatic pass for me. Now it will probably be worth the box price to try for a month at least.

Why would having raids make you not purchase the game? Just curious

For me personally games with Raids have become a turn off. Why? It ends up becoming the entire focus of the game and is accessable by a very small % of the player base.

I have been in Raiding guilds in past games and enjoyed it for awhile, was successful at it, and overall thought it was fun for awhile. But then it turns into a never ending grind for better gear, a second job type deal and just unfun mainly.

Like WoW, Rift, ect. most of the content updates are focused around a new tier of gear, with a new harder raid, that only like what? 5% of the players will ever even see? Things like PvP, crafting and other aspects get ignored or half assed so the uber 5% can grind a new raid. No thanks

This is just me, I wont ever bash anyone who likes raids or raiding type games, I just simply dont enjoy them anymore and will pass on any game where that is the focus.

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

3/22/13 8:36:05 AM#64
Originally posted by Celcius

I like how people claim they are missing a "large chunk" of people who play MMOs without raiding. This is simply not true at all. A ton of people who play MMOs don't even hit max level, let alone raid. Raiding has been the least popular part of every MMO since it's inception. Most people don't have the kind of time required for it.

GW2 has over 3 million people playing it who knew there would not be raids available. This is based on US/EU alone so consider that GW2's population is probably as much as/ more then WoW's NA population and WoW has probably the highest percentage of raiders of any MMO. I would say that is a pretty good indication that people generally don't play MMOS for raids.

Would you play Skyrim if you had to pay $15 a month to do so?

 

I think honestly a majority would say no, I dont think it's worth to have to buy Skyrim and pay $15 a month to do so. Stop acting like you just want Skyrim. This game will more likely than not be pay to play at the standard $15 a month model. They have to make this an MMORPG, not "Elder Scrolls with a friend"

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

3/22/13 8:37:48 AM#65
Originally posted by jdnewell
Originally posted by Winelen
Originally posted by jdnewell

For me no raids is a positive thing and will actually be a consideration on to buy or not.

If it had raids as an end game then it would be an automatic pass for me. Now it will probably be worth the box price to try for a month at least.

Why would having raids make you not purchase the game? Just curious

For me personally games with Raids have become a turn off. Why? It ends up becoming the entire focus of the game and is accessable by a very small % of the player base.

I have been in Raiding guilds in past games and enjoyed it for awhile, was successful at it, and overall thought it was fun for awhile. But then it turns into a never ending grind for better gear, a second job type deal and just unfun mainly.

Like WoW, Rift, ect. most of the content updates are focused around a new tier of gear, with a new harder raid, that only like what? 5% of the players will ever even see? Things like PvP, crafting and other aspects get ignored or half assed so the uber 5% can grind a new raid. No thanks

This is just me, I wont ever bash anyone who likes raids or raiding type games, I just simply dont enjoy them anymore and will pass on any game where that is the focus.

Paul Sage and others have said 100000 times that crafting gives at worst tied for the best gear in the game, but it sounds like it gives the best gear in the game. So even if raiding isnt the only way to play, you wouldnt buy it if it had raiding? Because.. Others are enjoying something?

 

This game isnt gonna last on Cyrodill and crafting alone. You wouldnt pay $15 a month to play Skyrim and you know it. Dont act like you just want Skyrim ported with new quests.

 

Did you quit WoW after Burning Crusade? WoW has gotten more casual with each expansion. Casuals could have walked into the best Raid and finished it even if you only played 1 hour a day. WoW added "scenarios' which are 3 people DPS dungeons. It doesnt give the best gear, but what are you expecting? To check the mailbox and the best gear in the game was mailed to you? Raiding or no raiding best gear will require a grind of some sort.

  evilized

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 489

3/22/13 8:39:34 AM#66
Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by evilized

i see the wow mouthbreathers are out in full force. don't like the fact there aren't any raids? dont play the game. i'll be playing for the rvr and the ESO-esque combat system along with everything else the game has to offer including having no raid content. 

 

MMO's started without raids. the most fun i have ever had in MMO's has been in games with no raid system. accessable structured raids were new and interesting back in 2004 but they have been done to death and really need to go away so they can be replaced by something more dynamic and fun. darkness falls zone plz?

I doubt Elder Scrolls fans will stay subscribed to this game for a few months just based off the single player content alone. This is an MMORPG, not a Skyrim DLC.

 

the fact that people can't comprehend an MMO without raid content makes me want to smash my head into a wall repeatedly. not having raids DOES NOT MEAN THERE IS NO MULTIPLAYER CONTENT. there is pvp, there is crafting and playing the economy, there are guilds and alliances, there are dungeon crawls and a whole heck of a lot more i don't care to add because it would take all day to type. 

 

they are building this game as a mix between ES and daoc, both of which have given myself and many other people years of entertainment. neither game included a structured raid system. there was multi-group content in daoc but it was non-linear and for the most part optional (until ToA, which drove out a good portion of the playerbase because it required people to raid).

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

3/22/13 8:41:37 AM#67
Originally posted by evilized
Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by evilized

i see the wow mouthbreathers are out in full force. don't like the fact there aren't any raids? dont play the game. i'll be playing for the rvr and the ESO-esque combat system along with everything else the game has to offer including having no raid content. 

 

MMO's started without raids. the most fun i have ever had in MMO's has been in games with no raid system. accessable structured raids were new and interesting back in 2004 but they have been done to death and really need to go away so they can be replaced by something more dynamic and fun. darkness falls zone plz?

I doubt Elder Scrolls fans will stay subscribed to this game for a few months just based off the single player content alone. This is an MMORPG, not a Skyrim DLC.

 

the fact that people can't comprehend an MMO without raid content makes me want to smash my head into a wall repeatedly. not having raids DOES NOT MEAN THERE IS NO MULTIPLAYER CONTENT. there is pvp, there is crafting and playing the economy, there are guilds and alliances, there are dungeon crawls and a whole heck of a lot more i don't care to add because it would take all day to type. 

 

they are building this game as a mix between ES and daoc, both of which have given myself and many other people years of entertainment. neither game included a structured raid system. there was multi-group content in daoc but it was non-linear and for the most part optional (until ToA, which drove out a good portion of the playerbase because it required people to raid).

So there is PvP that gives no rewards, and no World PvP. Sorry, Cyrodill isnt World PvP. 

 

Youre gonna play this game for 4 months just because of Cyrodill with no rewards? I highly doubt that. Anyone who wants to finish all 3 factions will have done so within a couple months, especially if this game is $15 a month subscription like it probably will be.

 

No carrot on a stick = no longevity. You wouldnt pay $15 a month to play Skyrim and dont act like you would.

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

3/22/13 8:43:13 AM#68
Originally posted by hMJem 

This game isnt gonna last on Cyrodill and crafting alone. You wouldnt pay $15 a month to play Skyrim and you know it. Dont act like you just want Skyrim ported with new quests.

 I dont think a single MMO player alive thinks that TESO is going to be a multiplayer TES...these game designers have proven they are not capable of breaking away from DaoCs base game design which is nothing like TES. That alone makes your argument moot. Hell they already announced that they are limiting crafting to either mastering two or being bad at all of them which is NOTHING like a TES game, hell it isnt even like some MMOs that allow you to train and master all crafting, which IS like a TES game.

Raids or not, this is not a Skyrim port and I doubt anyone is expecting it from these guys that like to paint a small box.

  jdnewell

Elite Member

Joined: 7/04/06
Posts: 1821

3/22/13 8:44:17 AM#69
Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by jdnewell
Originally posted by Winelen
Originally posted by jdnewell

For me no raids is a positive thing and will actually be a consideration on to buy or not.

If it had raids as an end game then it would be an automatic pass for me. Now it will probably be worth the box price to try for a month at least.

Why would having raids make you not purchase the game? Just curious

For me personally games with Raids have become a turn off. Why? It ends up becoming the entire focus of the game and is accessable by a very small % of the player base.

I have been in Raiding guilds in past games and enjoyed it for awhile, was successful at it, and overall thought it was fun for awhile. But then it turns into a never ending grind for better gear, a second job type deal and just unfun mainly.

Like WoW, Rift, ect. most of the content updates are focused around a new tier of gear, with a new harder raid, that only like what? 5% of the players will ever even see? Things like PvP, crafting and other aspects get ignored or half assed so the uber 5% can grind a new raid. No thanks

This is just me, I wont ever bash anyone who likes raids or raiding type games, I just simply dont enjoy them anymore and will pass on any game where that is the focus.

Paul Sage and others have said 100000 times that crafting gives at worst tied for the best gear in the game, but it sounds like it gives the best gear in the game. So even if raiding isnt the only way to play, you wouldnt buy it if it had raiding? Because.. Others are enjoying something?

 

This game isnt gonna last on Cyrodill and crafting alone. You wouldnt pay $15 a month to play Skyrim and you know it. Dont act like you just want Skyrim ported with new quests.

No offense to anyone thats just my opinion. If you and others enjoy raiding in games they by all means buy em and play em.

I personally dont really care what others enjoy, I buy and play what I enjoy, not what others do. I dont enjoy playing and paying for games that will end up catering to the Raiders and not the other 95% of players.

But thats just my opinion, not asking for changes or anything to cater to me. I just base my own purchase on what I think suites me best. And at this point games that are not raid focused are it.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17017

3/22/13 8:45:06 AM#70
I'm fine with that.
  SavageHorizon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1551

3/22/13 8:45:29 AM#71
Originally posted by Eir_S
I'm fine with that.  Someone who played the game recently stated that it seems to be more of a multiplayer TES than an MMO anyway.

Seems that's the norm with these ultra themepark MMO of the last 1-2 years. GW2 is more like a multi player game than an MMO, hopefully and contrary to what you have heard TESO is not as extreame as GW2.

 

TESO will be a great filler until EQNext and then ill be going home back to Norrath.

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  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

3/22/13 8:46:47 AM#72
Originally posted by hMJem

No carrot on a stick = no longevity. You wouldnt pay $15 a month to play Skyrim and dont act like you would.

 Really? So UO died 15 years ago? Oh wait...no it didnt.

How about Asherons Call? Nope...still going.

Wait wait, lets see if there are even older ones still going...yep, still can play Meridian 59 and the Realm and they were released back in 1995.

Want to talk about how many carrot on a stick games have closed over the last 10 years? Nah, not worth the time.

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

3/22/13 8:47:24 AM#73
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by Eir_S
I'm fine with that.  Someone who played the game recently stated that it seems to be more of a multiplayer TES than an MMO anyway.

Seems that's the norm with these ultra themepark MMO of the last 1-2 years. GW2 is more like a multi player game than an MMO, hopefully and contrary to what you have heard TESO is not as extreame as GW2.

 

TESO will be a great filler until EQNext and then ill be going home back to Norrath.

I'll see you there brother. Everquest Online Adventures was my first MMO.

  stori11

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/12
Posts: 30

3/22/13 8:49:13 AM#74
Adding raids to this perticular mmo would be a mistake on their part seeing how they might loose a few players by making it mroe of a co-op game than mmo, but they would loose alot more players and face a massive backlash from TES fans if they made it wow-like mmo. Not that there is anything wrong with wow, I played it myself and enjoyed it, I hope my point is easy to understand.
  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

3/22/13 8:49:23 AM#75
Originally posted by JasonJ
Originally posted by hMJem

No carrot on a stick = no longevity. You wouldnt pay $15 a month to play Skyrim and dont act like you would.

 Really? So UO died 15 years ago? Oh wait...no it didnt.

How about Asherons Call? Nope...still going.

Wait wait, lets see if there are even older ones still going...yep, still can play Meridian 59 and the Realm and they were released back in 1995.

Want to talk about how many carrot on a stick games have closed over the last 10 years? Nah, not worth the time.

So you're saying Zenimax hopes their MMORPG turns into an after-thought like Asheron's Call?

 

That's like saying because 300 people still played Everquest Online Adventures before it was shut down that it was still being successful.

 

I'm sorry, but I am pretty confident Zenimax hopes this game has a Golden Age like Everquest and WoW had, not becoming a total after-thought and pathetic size community. Businesses dont do things just for the fans. It's $$ in the end. And if they can make $$ with a little fan-service, they will. But this game is about making money.

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

3/22/13 8:50:44 AM#76
Originally posted by stori11
Adding raids to this perticular mmo would be a mistake on their part seeing how they might loose a few players by making it mroe of a co-op game than mmo, but they would loose alot more players and face a massive backlash from TES fans if they made it wow-like mmo. Not that there is anything wrong with wow, I played it myself and enjoyed it, I hope my point is easy to understand.

You know this is an MMORPG right? And you cant do the main story co-op? You're phased by yourself when doing the main story questline.

 

Do you know what MMO means?

  evilized

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 489

3/22/13 8:51:03 AM#77
Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by evilized
Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by evilized

i see the wow mouthbreathers are out in full force. don't like the fact there aren't any raids? dont play the game. i'll be playing for the rvr and the ESO-esque combat system along with everything else the game has to offer including having no raid content. 

 

MMO's started without raids. the most fun i have ever had in MMO's has been in games with no raid system. accessable structured raids were new and interesting back in 2004 but they have been done to death and really need to go away so they can be replaced by something more dynamic and fun. darkness falls zone plz?

I doubt Elder Scrolls fans will stay subscribed to this game for a few months just based off the single player content alone. This is an MMORPG, not a Skyrim DLC.

 

the fact that people can't comprehend an MMO without raid content makes me want to smash my head into a wall repeatedly. not having raids DOES NOT MEAN THERE IS NO MULTIPLAYER CONTENT. there is pvp, there is crafting and playing the economy, there are guilds and alliances, there are dungeon crawls and a whole heck of a lot more i don't care to add because it would take all day to type. 

 

they are building this game as a mix between ES and daoc, both of which have given myself and many other people years of entertainment. neither game included a structured raid system. there was multi-group content in daoc but it was non-linear and for the most part optional (until ToA, which drove out a good portion of the playerbase because it required people to raid).

So there is PvP that gives no rewards, and no World PvP. Sorry, Cyrodill isnt World PvP. 

 

Youre gonna play this game for 4 months just because of Cyrodill with no rewards? I highly doubt that. Anyone who wants to finish all 3 factions will have done so within a couple months, especially if this game is $15 a month subscription like it probably will be.

 

No carrot on a stick = no longevity. You wouldnt pay $15 a month to play Skyrim and dont act like you would.

 

[mod edit]

 

cryodil is essentially the same thing as frontiers in daoc. these areas are huge and are most certainly open world pvp. cryodil isn't just for pvp either, there are mobs, quests, leveling areas, towns, camps and a whole heck of a lot of other things to interact with. 

 

and as far as pvp giving no rewards? how about realm/alliance points as an alternate form of character progression. new skills and abilities sound pretty rewarding to me. 

  Celcius

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/20/04
Posts: 931

3/22/13 8:54:00 AM#78
Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by Celcius

I like how people claim they are missing a "large chunk" of people who play MMOs without raiding. This is simply not true at all. A ton of people who play MMOs don't even hit max level, let alone raid. Raiding has been the least popular part of every MMO since it's inception. Most people don't have the kind of time required for it.

GW2 has over 3 million people playing it who knew there would not be raids available. This is based on US/EU alone so consider that GW2's population is probably as much as/ more then WoW's NA population and WoW has probably the highest percentage of raiders of any MMO. I would say that is a pretty good indication that people generally don't play MMOS for raids.

Would you play Skyrim if you had to pay $15 a month to do so?

 

I think honestly a majority would say no, I dont think it's worth to have to buy Skyrim and pay $15 a month to do so. Stop acting like you just want Skyrim. This game will more likely than not be pay to play at the standard $15 a month model. They have to make this an MMORPG, not "Elder Scrolls with a friend"

If they had DLC every 2-3 months; absolutely. Who said this game would be sub based? 

  Eir_S

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4697

GW2 socialist.

3/22/13 8:54:32 AM#79
Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by stori11
Adding raids to this perticular mmo would be a mistake on their part seeing how they might loose a few players by making it mroe of a co-op game than mmo, but they would loose alot more players and face a massive backlash from TES fans if they made it wow-like mmo. Not that there is anything wrong with wow, I played it myself and enjoyed it, I hope my point is easy to understand.

You know this is an MMORPG right? And you cant do the main story co-op? You're phased by yourself when doing the main story questline.

 

Do you know what MMO means?

Really?  I didn't know that.  Wow, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard... make a TES multiplayer game, then make the main storyline single player.  Brilliant.  If that's true, I'm almost offended at how utterly fucking stupid it is.

  Celcius

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/20/04
Posts: 931

3/22/13 8:56:39 AM#80
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by stori11
Adding raids to this perticular mmo would be a mistake on their part seeing how they might loose a few players by making it mroe of a co-op game than mmo, but they would loose alot more players and face a massive backlash from TES fans if they made it wow-like mmo. Not that there is anything wrong with wow, I played it myself and enjoyed it, I hope my point is easy to understand.

You know this is an MMORPG right? And you cant do the main story co-op? You're phased by yourself when doing the main story questline.

 

Do you know what MMO means?

Really?  I didn't know that.  Wow, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard... make a TES multiplayer game, then make the main storyline single player.  Brilliant.  If that's true, I'm almost offended at how utterly fucking stupid it is.

Don't believe everything in this thread. Unless this guy can prove that you can't do the main story co-op I would take that comment with a grain of salt. 

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