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General Discussion  » Clearing up the *new* Faction Lock

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112 posts found
  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3290

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

3/21/13 1:02:53 PM#61


Originally posted by baphamet
i think the fact that you could save in TES single player games made its permadeath not really permadeath, so the argument is invalid.

People still TES single player games with a self-imposed permadeath option. They turn off auto save and do not save at any point in time. They play their characters until they are dead. I think, and I could mistaken, it is called "DID", or "Dead Is Dead."

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5553

3/21/13 1:06:30 PM#62
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Originally posted by baphamet
i think the fact that you could save in TES single player games made its permadeath not really permadeath, so the argument is invalid.


People still TES single player games with a self-imposed permadeath option. They turn off auto save and do not save at any point in time. They play their characters until they are dead. I think, and I could mistaken, it is called "DID", or "Dead Is Dead."

You can do that in ESO as well. When you die, you delete.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  dontadow

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 1048

3/21/13 1:08:24 PM#63
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Originally posted by baphamet
i think the fact that you could save in TES single player games made its permadeath not really permadeath, so the argument is invalid.


People still TES single player games with a self-imposed permadeath option. They turn off auto save and do not save at any point in time. They play their characters until they are dead. I think, and I could mistaken, it is called "DID", or "Dead Is Dead."

You can do that in ESO as well. When you die, you delete.

Yeah, I have been playign since arena and never heard of anyone else doing that. Still, any game can be played like that, just make a new character when you die. Role playing is what you make it. Though I will go with whatever myth in the land stops me from permdying. 

 

  monarc333

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/16/07
Posts: 605

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3/21/13 1:08:43 PM#64
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by monarc333

"No agitators and race mixers here: When you are leveling up and going about your business in your land, at no point will you see anyone from the opposing faction. No one gets flagged for pvp or anything like that. Like I stated before, enemies exploring your territory will be in a “their faction only” copy of it. Really this is just to appease people who only want to explore the game without sacrificing the segregation of the factions."

This is a HUGE dissapointment to me. I mean its a major game killer to me. I would consider myself a ES addict. My love for the games knows no bounds. This change however, makes zero sense to me. Its fine if you want pvp in a seperate zone. We've had that before and it works, for the most part. But not having that faction to faction interaction thoughout the world just makes it lonely, stale and uninspiriring. I dont see why they cant give people under lvl 50 pvp immunity in these zones. Let the 50s duke it out in the zones if they want to.

Ahhh man, so upset with this. W/e Jormag is spawning, time to kill him for the millionth time.

The DAoC model is about the war being focused on one map. This makes for deeper more epic battles. Take the 15 gourps spread out all over the place and put them on one map and now you have a war. Thats fun.

Oh dont get me wrong I love the wvw/faction epic battles. Its one of the best things i've heard about ESO. My main complaint was more of the exploration of factions zones with no one but your own faction there. It seems they are making it like this to avoid pvp in the leveling zones. My suggestion would be to have it only lvl 50 for pvp in those zones. I would take any option other than total segregation from 2/3s of the populace.

  mightyjoxer

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/11
Posts: 34

3/21/13 1:14:46 PM#65

Actually I think you misunderstood my question Iselin

Originally posted by mightyjoxer
 

Ok so here are some of my questions about faction lock.

Let's say person A is level 50 and has unlocked Faction 1-3-2 in that order.

and person B has unlocked Faction 1-2

Will A and B be able to play together on Faction 2 if it is the third unlocked faction for A?

I ask this because sounds to me like there is a loot discrepancy between second faction unlock and third faction unlock loot.

Once you make the choice the entire zone opens up to your character to explore. Matt did say that the loot you will get in the other zones will be really good, and after finishing the 2nd, you unlock the third. When you unlock the third zone that will give some of the best loot in the game.

can be found here http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/7227

Next Will person A exclude person B from grouping/partying because they haven't unlocked factions?

Can see it now "LFG for 3rd faction party"

Either way I am going to try the game. I think that is why most of us are here on the forums talking about it before it has even gone live.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGrflK6An6Y&list=UUpu8dLHavjMi1a5jgT9ycMA 12:30 of the video.

 

My question is if person A + B were same faction.  The video didn't say anything about the loot. It didn't answer any of my questions. I am assuming(which makes me an ass lol) that you read my post quickly and thought I meant people from different factions playing together. Thanks for trying and for the new video which I had not seen yet.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3290

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

3/21/13 1:15:18 PM#66


Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Originally posted by baphamet
i think the fact that you could save in TES single player games made its permadeath not really permadeath, so the argument is invalid.

People still TES single player games with a self-imposed permadeath option. They turn off auto save and do not save at any point in time. They play their characters until they are dead. I think, and I could mistaken, it is called "DID", or "Dead Is Dead."

You can do that in ESO as well. When you die, you delete.

But is the other also true? Can a player load up a save when they die in an MMO? The point is about having both available, not one or the other :)

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5553

3/21/13 1:16:58 PM#67
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Originally posted by baphamet
i think the fact that you could save in TES single player games made its permadeath not really permadeath, so the argument is invalid.


People still TES single player games with a self-imposed permadeath option. They turn off auto save and do not save at any point in time. They play their characters until they are dead. I think, and I could mistaken, it is called "DID", or "Dead Is Dead."

You can do that in ESO as well. When you die, you delete.

But is the other also true? Can a player load up a save when they die in an MMO? The point is about having both available, not one or the other :)

In an MMORPG, your progress is always saved onto their servers. You can't go backwards in time, but you can certainly delete your character if you die giving you a sense of permadeath.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

3/21/13 1:20:08 PM#68
Originally posted by jfoytek

Well I am sorry to break this too you but PvP really began in UO pre Trammel, every old school long term hardcore pvper that was alive then and still plays MMO's hails from UO and will look back at the days of the GM mage as the pinnacle of most of there pvp....  And Shadowbane was a masterpiece a game completely geared toward pvp but hype dragged its playerbase away to WoW and SWG.... 

DaoC ended up the refuge of the pvper as there wasnt much else to play, besides Mortal Online and Darkfall who I give them credit for trying both had some great concepts both were plagued with bugs...

And Wurm is just the unknown Gem, how a game the quality of wurm has gone by with so little public knowledge of its existence is just a shame!

Original UO = Best PvP ever. And in the early days, GM mages were no match for a halberd wielding thief who stole all their reagents.

Corp Por - Fizzle - Corp Por - Fizzle - WTF? - Kal Ort Por - Fizzle - Dead.

Shadowbane was indeed a PvP masterpiece as well. Fully built player run cities, massive open world combat, minimal leveling grind to get into end game... man what a great game that was.

DAoC would be my third favorite PvP game, but my favorite PvP model for a themepark styled MMO.

  adam_nox

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/31/06
Posts: 2072

3/21/13 1:22:30 PM#69

It seems somewhat likely that what they are doing is killing 2 birds.  The first being faction lock.  The second being endgame content.  They can reuse area maps for endgame content, saving themselves a lot of time creating new areas.  It is brilliant, even if you don't like it. 

 

It seems plausible, given their ulterior motivation (endgame), that we could see open PvP in these areas, sort of like darkness falls.  What form and under what circumstances, remains to be seen, but it just seems likely to me.

  jfoytek

Novice Member

Joined: 6/25/12
Posts: 151

3/21/13 1:27:12 PM#70
Originally posted by rygard49
Originally posted by jfoytek

Well I am sorry to break this too you but PvP really began in UO pre Trammel, every old school long term hardcore pvper that was alive then and still plays MMO's hails from UO and will look back at the days of the GM mage as the pinnacle of most of there pvp....  And Shadowbane was a masterpiece a game completely geared toward pvp but hype dragged its playerbase away to WoW and SWG.... 

DaoC ended up the refuge of the pvper as there wasnt much else to play, besides Mortal Online and Darkfall who I give them credit for trying both had some great concepts both were plagued with bugs...

And Wurm is just the unknown Gem, how a game the quality of wurm has gone by with so little public knowledge of its existence is just a shame!

Original UO = Best PvP ever. And in the early days, GM mages were no match for a halberd wielding thief who stole all their reagents.

Corp Por - Fizzle - Corp Por - Fizzle - WTF? - Kal Ort Por - Fizzle - Dead.

Shadowbane was indeed a PvP masterpiece as well. Fully built player run cities, massive open world combat, minimal leveling grind to get into end game... man what a great game that was.

DAoC would be my third favorite PvP game, but my favorite PvP model for a themepark styled MMO.

o/

UO,Shadowbane,SWG,Darkfall,MO,Wurm Online,Secretworld,GW,GW2,PotBS,LotR,Atlantica Online,WWII Online,WoT,Battlestar Galactica,Planetside2,Perpetuum,Fallen Earth,Runescape,WoW,Eve,Xsylon,Dragon Prophet, Salem

  tokini

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/07
Posts: 345

3/21/13 1:32:05 PM#71
Originally posted by WellzyC
Originally posted by tokini
Originally posted by WellzyC

A mostly people free zone is the point. People who want to experience the content and explore can, and us who want faction pride and faction lock (sort of) get that too.

plus all the town npcs and quests are intact, so its not like it will be en empty zone by any means

how can you say this isnt a good compromise?

wouldnt it create more 'pride' to actually defend your lands, or invade others in the name of your faction?

im not trying to argue, i just dont get how this method they are using somehow solidifies 'faction pride'.  just the mere idea of seeing an enemy faction player diminishes pride?

shouldnt all the npc's be extremely hostile, as well? why would they give any sort of quest to an enemy faction member?

 

You don't see enemy players, thats my point. Please read the entire post

i DID read the entire post, what im asking is, why does seeing other playersin 'your' area somehow diminsh faction pride?

  jfoytek

Novice Member

Joined: 6/25/12
Posts: 151

3/21/13 1:37:33 PM#72
Originally posted by tokini
Originally posted by WellzyC
Originally posted by tokini
Originally posted by WellzyC

A mostly people free zone is the point. People who want to experience the content and explore can, and us who want faction pride and faction lock (sort of) get that too.

plus all the town npcs and quests are intact, so its not like it will be en empty zone by any means

how can you say this isnt a good compromise?

wouldnt it create more 'pride' to actually defend your lands, or invade others in the name of your faction?

im not trying to argue, i just dont get how this method they are using somehow solidifies 'faction pride'.  just the mere idea of seeing an enemy faction player diminishes pride?

shouldnt all the npc's be extremely hostile, as well? why would they give any sort of quest to an enemy faction member?

 

You don't see enemy players, thats my point. Please read the entire post

i DID read the entire post, what im asking is, why does seeing other playersin 'your' area somehow diminsh faction pride?

personally I have attempted to figure this out too only thing I can come up with is that!

PvE'ers dont want to see the other faction because well there the enemy and they know that there suppose to attack and attempt to kill their enemy....

Alas that would require PvP and this scares them to simplest way around this is just to make the other faction invisible via an instanced copy of the zone where we can give the yellow bellys more mobs to play with....

UO,Shadowbane,SWG,Darkfall,MO,Wurm Online,Secretworld,GW,GW2,PotBS,LotR,Atlantica Online,WWII Online,WoT,Battlestar Galactica,Planetside2,Perpetuum,Fallen Earth,Runescape,WoW,Eve,Xsylon,Dragon Prophet, Salem

  sapphen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

3/21/13 1:37:40 PM#73
Originally posted by Iselin

"That's the truth.  They gave us a hard time for criticizing the game and now they are freaking out worse than we ever did.  We just wanted more TES in ESO and yet they tried to make us feel like outcasts."

Let me see if have it straight... derogatory exagerations made about an anonymous "they" is civil, but specifics directed at the individual who made the remarks is not?

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

There is no 'they vs. we' attacks here.  I don't know why you would take offense to that unless that "us vs. them" drama is really in your head. I wasn't referring to you or "everyone who's defended the game against the evil ESO haters"  but to the posters who are ACTUALLY freaking out and defended the game.

Originally posted by
Honestly, I wasnt super excited about this mmo but now............well now........if this is the stupid direction development is going.....then I hope this piece of shit burns with the rest of them.
Originally posted by
Now, Matt Firor most llikely didn't want this stupid crap, BUT, guess what? He's still there... he hasn't resigned.. As far as I'm concerned, that's his official stamp of approval on the destruction of any hope of good RvR that this game may have had.
Originally posted by
Way to ruin another MMO, you win and the community and realm pride loses.  maybe I will start a vicious and slanderous campaign to get this changed back.  Seriously considering my choice to play knowing the development can be changed by a bunch of vocal bitchers and complainers.
TOTALLY PISSED!
  Tuktz

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 310

3/21/13 1:39:59 PM#74
Originally posted by tokini
Originally posted by WellzyC
Originally posted by tokini
Originally posted by WellzyC

A mostly people free zone is the point. People who want to experience the content and explore can, and us who want faction pride and faction lock (sort of) get that too.

plus all the town npcs and quests are intact, so its not like it will be en empty zone by any means

how can you say this isnt a good compromise?

wouldnt it create more 'pride' to actually defend your lands, or invade others in the name of your faction?

im not trying to argue, i just dont get how this method they are using somehow solidifies 'faction pride'.  just the mere idea of seeing an enemy faction player diminishes pride?

shouldnt all the npc's be extremely hostile, as well? why would they give any sort of quest to an enemy faction member?

 

You don't see enemy players, thats my point. Please read the entire post

i DID read the entire post, what im asking is, why does seeing other playersin 'your' area somehow diminsh faction pride?

 

It's lose-lose.

 

If you see enemy players in your pve zone that you can't attack, that destroys immerssion big time.

If you see enemy players in your pve zone, and you can both attack eachother (open faction pvp), that makes the whole GAME rvr which wouldn't work either. It's been shown time after time again, that for games that want BIG playerbases, the majority enjoying have the CHOICE when to PVP, not to have it on all the time. There's also a big portion that will only EVER pve, and never check out PVP.

 

Mind you this opinion is coming from someone who is diehard looking forward to a 100% RVR game (CU). It's just the truth that the massive amount of casual players out there want to log in, do a couple quests, and not worry about some player that plays 24/7 walking up while they're questing them and destroying them over and over.

 

To me it makes total sense that an alliance would protect it's borders so much so, that enemies couldn't get past the "front lines". THe military protects certain boundaries and chokepoints to keep their homeland/civilians safe.


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  tokini

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/07
Posts: 345

3/21/13 1:42:36 PM#75
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by tokini
Originally posted by WellzyC
Originally posted by tokini
Originally posted by WellzyC

A mostly people free zone is the point. People who want to experience the content and explore can, and us who want faction pride and faction lock (sort of) get that too.

plus all the town npcs and quests are intact, so its not like it will be en empty zone by any means

how can you say this isnt a good compromise?

wouldnt it create more 'pride' to actually defend your lands, or invade others in the name of your faction?

im not trying to argue, i just dont get how this method they are using somehow solidifies 'faction pride'.  just the mere idea of seeing an enemy faction player diminishes pride?

shouldnt all the npc's be extremely hostile, as well? why would they give any sort of quest to an enemy faction member?

 

You don't see enemy players, thats my point. Please read the entire post

i DID read the entire post, what im asking is, why does seeing other playersin 'your' area somehow diminsh faction pride?

personally I have attempted to figure this out too only thing I can come up with is that!

PvE'ers dont want to see the other faction because well there the enemy and they know that there suppose to attack and attempt to kill their enemy....

Alas that would require PvP and this scares them to simplest way around this is just to make the other faction invisible via an instanced copy of the zone where we can give the yellow bellys more mobs to play with....

i guess so, i can personally take or leave open pvp, but im just not getting why preventing other players (or in thiscase not seeing them) from enterinmg 'my' area in stills more pride.

 

i would think defending my land, never letting my capitol get 'conquered' would instill more pride than this bizarre form of xenophobia.

 

  tokini

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/07
Posts: 345

3/21/13 1:46:02 PM#76
Originally posted by Tuktz
Originally posted by tokini
Originally posted by WellzyC
Originally posted by tokini
Originally posted by WellzyC

A mostly people free zone is the point. People who want to experience the content and explore can, and us who want faction pride and faction lock (sort of) get that too.

plus all the town npcs and quests are intact, so its not like it will be en empty zone by any means

how can you say this isnt a good compromise?

wouldnt it create more 'pride' to actually defend your lands, or invade others in the name of your faction?

im not trying to argue, i just dont get how this method they are using somehow solidifies 'faction pride'.  just the mere idea of seeing an enemy faction player diminishes pride?

shouldnt all the npc's be extremely hostile, as well? why would they give any sort of quest to an enemy faction member?

 

You don't see enemy players, thats my point. Please read the entire post

i DID read the entire post, what im asking is, why does seeing other playersin 'your' area somehow diminsh faction pride?

 

It's lose-lose.

 

If you see enemy players in your pve zone that you can't attack, that destroys immerssion big time.

If you see enemy players in your pve zone, and you can both attack eachother (open faction pvp), that makes the whole GAME rvr which wouldn't work either. It's been shown time after time again, that for games that want BIG playerbases, the majority enjoying have the CHOICE when to PVP, not to have it on all the time. There's also a big portion that will only EVER pve, and never check out PVP.

 

Mind you this opinion is coming from someone who is diehard looking forward to a 100% RVR game (CU). It's just the truth that the massive amount of casual players out there want to log in, do a couple quests, and not worry about some player that plays 24/7 walking up while they're questing them and destroying them over and over.

 

To me it makes total sense that an alliance would protect it's borders so much so, that enemies couldn't get past the "front lines". THe military protects certain boundaries and chokepoints to keep their homeland/civilians safe.

i get what you are saying, especially about someone who just wants to pve without being bothered.

 

my question, again, is how this adds to faction pride...i guess im just not seeing it. any 'pride' will be gained by defeating the enemy in RvR, how not seeing anyone in my zone, when their exclusion from my zone has nothing to do with what i have accomplished would make me more prideful just escapes me.

  jfoytek

Novice Member

Joined: 6/25/12
Posts: 151

3/21/13 1:49:04 PM#77
Originally posted by Tuktz 

 

 

If you see enemy players in your pve zone that you can't attack, that destroys immerssion big time.

If you see enemy players in your pve zone, and you can both attack eachother (open faction pvp), that makes the whole GAME rvr which wouldn't work either. It's been shown time after time again, that for games that want BIG playerbases, the majority enjoying have the CHOICE when to PVP, not to have it on all the time. There's also a big portion that will only EVER pve, and never check out PVP.

 

 

Odd, I could swear that the largest game off all time allows open world pvp, maybe you heard of WoW it seeminly did okay!

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  Tuktz

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 310

3/21/13 1:51:51 PM#78

I guess having a shared leveling experience with ONLY people from your faction? You build up that pride in working together, overcoming obstacles together, etc.....

 

That makes people from the other factions seem like strangers from a distant land. When you finally do see them, they are so outside the boundaries of what you are used to. You haven't seen those races as human players yet, and if you've seen them in the pve stuff you were probably only ever fighting against them. It really builds up factions/races by "us vs them" and recognizing certain races/factions as enemies right off the bat.

 

You all probably had different themes in the pve experiences in your homelands too, that stear you towards hating those other factions hehe. In story line missions for one faction, there's probably PVE stuff with invaders from other factions that you have to fight off, that perhaps have destroyed towns / taken prisoners / etc....


MMO history - EVE GW2 SWTOR RIFT WAR COH/V EQ2 WOW DAOC
Tuktz - http://www.heretic.shivtr.com/

  Tuktz

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 310

3/21/13 2:31:08 PM#79
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by Tuktz 

 

 

If you see enemy players in your pve zone that you can't attack, that destroys immerssion big time.

If you see enemy players in your pve zone, and you can both attack eachother (open faction pvp), that makes the whole GAME rvr which wouldn't work either. It's been shown time after time again, that for games that want BIG playerbases, the majority enjoying have the CHOICE when to PVP, not to have it on all the time. There's also a big portion that will only EVER pve, and never check out PVP.

 

 

Odd, I could swear that the largest game off all time allows open world pvp, maybe you heard of WoW it seeminly did okay!

Again, it's about choice, and they give the players that choice in wow. There's only open pvp in wow on PVP servers, not on normal servers, where it's restricted to those faction pvp zones they added in wrath & cata. (and bgs/arenas)

You can choose to play on a pvp server if you want that open world pvp play.

I was talking about choice vs making people play in an open pvp game. People want that choice.

I did see a good suggestion from someone on here about having multiple megaserver types, which I thougt could be an interesting concept. Normal ruleset / open world factional pvp servers / coop  server / etc... It would still  be megaservers, but with a couple different rulesets.

 

I don't think they'll do that, but it's an idea. I think they'd rather make one ruleset, and within that ruleset give people the choice of whether to pve, pvp, or both. I've read a lot lately about the pve options in the rvr area of TESO. My best is the gold/loot/resource rewards will make it worth the risk of death from other players.

 

Besides, I don't think anyone holds wow up as the pinnacle of best mmo out there. There's no arguing their large playerbase numbers, but that doesn't mean they're the best mmo (and I know "best" is subjective too.)

 

It just means they have a savvy business model to make it more and more casual friendly, and age range friendly, to get the biggest sub numbers possible. For long time / oldschool mmo'ers, a lot of their actions in that regard actually drive us away, but they don't care because they're making more money anyway. I've seen what wow's been doing since towards the end of wrath basically, as abandoning the people who helped get the game going originally, in favor of more subs and younger audience. Just look at the latest expac, LOL! My 8 to 14 year old nieces loved it! Meanwhile I went back to Eve online. =)


MMO history - EVE GW2 SWTOR RIFT WAR COH/V EQ2 WOW DAOC
Tuktz - http://www.heretic.shivtr.com/

  tokini

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/07
Posts: 345

3/21/13 3:30:23 PM#80
Originally posted by Tuktz

I guess having a shared leveling experience with ONLY people from your faction? You build up that pride in working together, overcoming obstacles together, etc.....

 

That makes people from the other factions seem like strangers from a distant land. When you finally do see them, they are so outside the boundaries of what you are used to. You haven't seen those races as human players yet, and if you've seen them in the pve stuff you were probably only ever fighting against them. It really builds up factions/races by "us vs them" and recognizing certain races/factions as enemies right off the bat.

 

You all probably had different themes in the pve experiences in your homelands too, that stear you towards hating those other factions hehe. In story line missions for one faction, there's probably PVE stuff with invaders from other factions that you have to fight off, that perhaps have destroyed towns / taken prisoners / etc....

this makes some sense, and as long as it isnt essentially solo leveling, it may become true as well.

although i also will agree with jfoytek, and say faction pride existed somewhat, at least in early WoW. 'for the horde' etc.we even thought the type of person that would roll a horde or alliance character was different (alliance were childish LOTR's fans that wanted to be legolas and aragorn, horde were more mature types that rooted for the bad guy in a movie - misguided as these notions were.) i remember being disgusted when a tank in our guild rolled a nightelf to play with some rl friends.

 

 

p.s. thanks for a civil conversation, a rarity on these boards.

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