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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Another great title ruined to the themepark.

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245 posts found
  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/21/13 1:26:23 PM#201
Originally posted by SysFail
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by SysFail

Hats off to EVE, they're showing how to develop an MMO over time, where as titles like Conan and Warhammer are showing that if you bring a piece of shit to the market, your get hammered for it.

Arguable. EVE has 2 factors in its favor that most others do not, namely PLEX and how its used in its economy, and a singular progression system that all but forces you to have multiple accounts if you actually want to effectively take part in multiple facets of gameplay in a timely manner. By all accounts (unfortunetly I can no longer find the link) EVE has one of the highest multi account playerbases of mmo players. The last numbers I say but it upwards of 30% of its playerbase have 2 accounts or more, which considering its low system demands makes a lot of sense.

One thing that is clear from that chart however, is that there is most definitely room for a AAA sandbox on the market, it won't hit the millions, but it will certainly pay for its self with profit to boot and will have a higher retention rate than a themepark, just because of the nature of the sandbox player.

Again, that is a tough sell. EVE breaks a number of "rules" which is why there are a large number that do not play it at all that are fans of both styles. There is no silver bullet answer to the question of Themepark or Sandbox. The only true answer we know is based on previous data. The data says many many more players prefer themepark.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  SysFail

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/05
Posts: 377

3/21/13 1:27:36 PM#202
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by SysFail
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by SysFail

Hats off to EVE, they're showing how to develop an MMO over time, where as titles like Conan and Warhammer are showing that if you bring a piece of shit to the market, your get hammered for it.

Arguable. EVE has 2 factors in its favor that most others do not, namely PLEX and how its used in its economy, and a singular progression system that all but forces you to have multiple accounts if you actually want to effectively take part in multiple facets of gameplay in a timely manner. By all accounts (unfortunetly I can no longer find the link) EVE has one of the highest multi account playerbases of mmo players. The last numbers I say but it upwards of 30% of its playerbase have 2 accounts or more, which considering its low system demands makes a lot of sense.

One thing that is clear from that chart however, is that there is most definitely room for a AAA sandbox on the market, it won't hit the millions, but it will certainly pay for its self with profit to boot and will have a higher retention rate than a themepark, just because of the nature of the sandbox player.

Why wont it hit the millions???  Give this Sandbox a powerful IP like Star Wars or in this case TES and it sure could!

Heck if the original SWG was rereleased!!!  I bet it could come damn near the million mark!

And before you say but it only hit 500K the first time .....

This is true but that was then there were less gamers playing MMO's and WoW was the fresh new shiny toy....  WoW is no longer so shinny and people want a game just like SWG!

My apologies, I should have wrote "It may not hit million's".

  Nanfoodle

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3369

3/21/13 1:27:40 PM#203
Originally posted by Zairu
Originally posted by Rhazmuz

Todd Howard overseas this project as well, and if he has given his approval, then that is all I need. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Provide a link to this please, or else it just looks like a lie.

 

Todd works for Bethesda and does not even play mmorpg games. he has said that he does not enjoy mmorpg or much online gaming in general. so either show some facts or stop spreading lies.

HERE!!!

Todd Howard said “We’re really excited to get the game into players’ hands. We receive invaluable feedback through the beta process, and that helps us ensure that the game will be one of the best online gaming experiences ever offered — one worthy of The Elder Scrolls franchise.”

If I read it rights Bethesda owns ZeniMax so how can this game not be ok by their books?

  Mouls

Novice Member

Joined: 2/23/08
Posts: 84

3/21/13 1:28:03 PM#204
Originally posted by jfoytek

I have played Daggerfall, Battlespire, Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim....  Forever I have journey thru the lands of Tamriel thinking just how awesome this game would be as an MMO....  And now that day is finally looming and I am horribly saddened!!!

 

Knowing that another great title, has choosen the Carebear way, the dawning of the Themepark!  Star Trek Online, SWTOR and now ESO....  All steming from the birth of the themepark inside of the world of warcraft....  Well news flash, WoW became a great game because of content and its SANDBOX, the ability to go anywhere and kill anyone that lived on the server no matter if that ment a suicidal charge into ogrimar. 

This Mega server concept where you instance the whole world IS NOT a SANDBOX and cannot be acceptable by any true gamer, being a person who loves all facets of the game from crafting to PvE to PVP because it destroys PVP and allows the CAREBEAR to never stray into danger!  Thus  his reward comes with no risk and the game lacks the sharp edge of a knife and will grow stale and boring because the ultimate mob will always be another player!

Trammel Ruined Ultima Online

NGE Ruined Star Wars Galaxy's

The Hype of WoW made Shadowbane a desert

Darkfall was destroyed by poor customer relations

And ESO will dead before it releases because of a failed concept "The Mega Server"

 

And its a real shame because you have the Following, you have the graphics, you have the history, you have put in place an excellent craftining system, you have the money and the backing to make a AAA game but you chose the road of the Themepark a fad that is not wanted by anyone other then the CAREBEARS!!! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saC13RJ8CUs oh nooo

  Shodanas

Elite Member

Joined: 1/05/10
Posts: 645

3/21/13 1:32:18 PM#205

"Another great title ruined to the themepark..." Yeah, because sandbox mmo's are doing sooo very well with millions and millions of subscribers.

OP: give us a break and snap out of your daydreaming BS. Same applies to the others agreeing with your incoherent rambling.

  Zairu

Novice Member

Joined: 1/09/09
Posts: 493

Yes, this is a personal attack.

3/21/13 1:33:24 PM#206
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Zairu
Originally posted by Rhazmuz

Todd Howard overseas this project as well, and if he has given his approval, then that is all I need. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Provide a link to this please, or else it just looks like a lie.

 

Todd works for Bethesda and does not even play mmorpg games. he has said that he does not enjoy mmorpg or much online gaming in general. so either show some facts or stop spreading lies.

HERE!!!

Todd Howard said “We’re really excited to get the game into players’ hands. We receive invaluable feedback through the beta process, and that helps us ensure that the game will be one of the best online gaming experiences ever offered — one worthy of The Elder Scrolls franchise.”

If I read it rights Bethesda owns ZeniMax so how can this game not be ok by their books?

 

 

 

 

You linked a Matt Frior quote.

 

Go re-read the entire article. you just proved me right.

 

Todd said none of that. in fact, it mentions in the article that Bethesda has NOTHING to do with ESO.

in that article, it just said Todd Howard mentioned fans wanting multiplayer in ES.

nice try.... wait.... not really.

 

Please, re-read it if you think I'm mistaken.

 

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18810

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

3/21/13 1:34:51 PM#207
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Zairu
Originally posted by Rhazmuz

Todd Howard overseas this project as well, and if he has given his approval, then that is all I need. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Provide a link to this please, or else it just looks like a lie.

 

Todd works for Bethesda and does not even play mmorpg games. he has said that he does not enjoy mmorpg or much online gaming in general. so either show some facts or stop spreading lies.

HERE!!!

Todd Howard said “We’re really excited to get the game into players’ hands. We receive invaluable feedback through the beta process, and that helps us ensure that the game will be one of the best online gaming experiences ever offered — one worthy of The Elder Scrolls franchise.”

If I read it rights Bethesda owns ZeniMax so how can this game not be ok by their books?

ER, go back and double check, that quote was attributed to Matt Firor, Todd actually said to have stated the most requested feature from fans of the series outside of dragons, was multiplayer. 

So not sure that constitutes any real involvement with the MMORPG title.

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Zairu

Novice Member

Joined: 1/09/09
Posts: 493

Yes, this is a personal attack.

3/21/13 1:35:43 PM#208
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Zairu
Originally posted by Rhazmuz

Todd Howard overseas this project as well, and if he has given his approval, then that is all I need. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Provide a link to this please, or else it just looks like a lie.

 

Todd works for Bethesda and does not even play mmorpg games. he has said that he does not enjoy mmorpg or much online gaming in general. so either show some facts or stop spreading lies.

HERE!!!

Todd Howard said “We’re really excited to get the game into players’ hands. We receive invaluable feedback through the beta process, and that helps us ensure that the game will be one of the best online gaming experiences ever offered — one worthy of The Elder Scrolls franchise.”

If I read it rights Bethesda owns ZeniMax so how can this game not be ok by their books?

ER, go back and double check, that quote was attributed to Matt Firor, Todd actually said to have stated the most requested feature from fans of the series outside of dragons, was multiplayer. 

So not sure that constitutes any real involvement with the MMORPG title.

TY.

 

you are truly one of the only posters I have ever liked, and you constantly show me why.

 

happy gaming.

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1300

3/21/13 1:38:25 PM#209
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by SysFail
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by SysFail

Hats off to EVE, they're showing how to develop an MMO over time, where as titles like Conan and Warhammer are showing that if you bring a piece of shit to the market, your get hammered for it.

Arguable. EVE has 2 factors in its favor that most others do not, namely PLEX and how its used in its economy, and a singular progression system that all but forces you to have multiple accounts if you actually want to effectively take part in multiple facets of gameplay in a timely manner. By all accounts (unfortunetly I can no longer find the link) EVE has one of the highest multi account playerbases of mmo players. The last numbers I say but it upwards of 30% of its playerbase have 2 accounts or more, which considering its low system demands makes a lot of sense.

One thing that is clear from that chart however, is that there is most definitely room for a AAA sandbox on the market, it won't hit the millions, but it will certainly pay for its self with profit to boot and will have a higher retention rate than a themepark, just because of the nature of the sandbox player.

Why wont it hit the millions???  Give this Sandbox a powerful IP like Star Wars or in this case TES and it sure could!

Heck if the original SWG was rereleased!!!  I bet it could come damn near the million mark!

And before you say but it only hit 500K the first time .....

This is true but that was then there were less gamers playing MMO's and WoW was the fresh new shiny toy....  WoW is no longer so shinny and people want a game just like SWG!

All evidance points to the opposite. Pretty much every themepark deemed as a "flop" (save for maybe WAR), still have more subs than any sandbox before it. Lets not forget that SWG launched only a year before WoW..not some 4 year gap where the "industry changed". The reason why WoW literally emptied out all sandboxes was not just because it was "new and shiny", but because it had content for every type of player...those who wanted to lose themselves for hours on end, and those that wanted quick spurts of fun, both of which are staples of Themeparks. CCP even said that thier biggest challenge is adding content that can be done in short time spans, without the need to spend massive amounts of hours to achieve. Time needed in and of itself is a staple of sandboxes, and as has been proven quite a bit, is not something the majority of MMO players have.

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/21/13 1:38:44 PM#210
Originally posted by Zairu

nice speculation.

 

also, I never said that he never once spoke about it within the company, in passing, but not as a working member of Zenimax Online, which is not the same thing as Zenimax or Bethesda. If it was all the same thing, they would not have seperate names to distinguish the different sections of the sister companies.

Its called branding. Its the same reason why Disney will likely continue to release the Star Wars films under the Lucas Arts brand much like it does the Marvel Films under that brand.

and no. i don't think the guys for FONV talked to the FO3 team very much if at all. had they been close, FONV might not be such a horrible game in comparison. (but that is another topic. the games are not even comparable in terms of quality). 

What? They have said more than a couple times that they kept in touch to keep the lore making sense, even though they were using different gameplay mechanics. Also, while I too enjoyed the story of Fallout 3 more, New Vegas is widely regarded as a better game. Not that it really matters since like all Bethesda titles they are only really playable after installing 100+ mods to fix the problems they shipped.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  jfoytek

Novice Member

Joined: 6/25/12
Posts: 151

 
OP  3/21/13 1:44:53 PM#211
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by SysFail
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by SysFail

Hats off to EVE, they're showing how to develop an MMO over time, where as titles like Conan and Warhammer are showing that if you bring a piece of shit to the market, your get hammered for it.

Arguable. EVE has 2 factors in its favor that most others do not, namely PLEX and how its used in its economy, and a singular progression system that all but forces you to have multiple accounts if you actually want to effectively take part in multiple facets of gameplay in a timely manner. By all accounts (unfortunetly I can no longer find the link) EVE has one of the highest multi account playerbases of mmo players. The last numbers I say but it upwards of 30% of its playerbase have 2 accounts or more, which considering its low system demands makes a lot of sense.

One thing that is clear from that chart however, is that there is most definitely room for a AAA sandbox on the market, it won't hit the millions, but it will certainly pay for its self with profit to boot and will have a higher retention rate than a themepark, just because of the nature of the sandbox player.

Why wont it hit the millions???  Give this Sandbox a powerful IP like Star Wars or in this case TES and it sure could!

Heck if the original SWG was rereleased!!!  I bet it could come damn near the million mark!

And before you say but it only hit 500K the first time .....

This is true but that was then there were less gamers playing MMO's and WoW was the fresh new shiny toy....  WoW is no longer so shinny and people want a game just like SWG!

All evidance points to the opposite. Pretty much every themepark deemed as a "flop" (save for maybe WAR), still have more subs than any themepark before it. Lets not forget that SWG launched only a year before WoW..not some 4 year gap where the "industry changed". The reason why WoW literally emptied out all themeparks was not just because it was "new and shiny", but because it had content for every type of player...those who wanted to lose themselves for hours on end, and those that wanted quick spurts of fun, both of which are staples of Themeparks. CCP even said that thier biggest challenge is adding content that can be done in short time spans, without the need to spend massive amounts of hours to achieve. Time needed in and of itself is a staple of sandboxes, and as has been proven quite a bit, is not something the majority of MMO players have.

Lets not forget that WoW released with some pretty great PvP content and thru the years alienated its pvp base.....  I played WoW in the early days I was impressed by it, it was on a level far beyond anything else not because it was a theampark but because it was all kinds of new and shinny......

Where wow royaly sucked was in the Crafting department,,,,

An area that SWG was possibly the best game of ALL TIME....

But NGE destroyed Crafting thus destroying the one part of that game that could have stood the test of time and weathered the shinnyness of WoW....

UO,Shadowbane,SWG,Darkfall,MO,Wurm Online,Secretworld,GW,GW2,PotBS,LotR,Atlantica Online,WWII Online,WoT,Battlestar Galactica,Planetside2,Perpetuum,Fallen Earth,Runescape,WoW,Eve,Xsylon,Dragon Prophet, Salem

  Nanfoodle

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3369

3/21/13 1:46:21 PM#212
Originally posted by Zairu
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Zairu
Originally posted by Rhazmuz

Todd Howard overseas this project as well, and if he has given his approval, then that is all I need. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Provide a link to this please, or else it just looks like a lie.

 

Todd works for Bethesda and does not even play mmorpg games. he has said that he does not enjoy mmorpg or much online gaming in general. so either show some facts or stop spreading lies.

HERE!!!

Todd Howard said “We’re really excited to get the game into players’ hands. We receive invaluable feedback through the beta process, and that helps us ensure that the game will be one of the best online gaming experiences ever offered — one worthy of The Elder Scrolls franchise.”

If I read it rights Bethesda owns ZeniMax so how can this game not be ok by their books?

 

 

 

 

You linked a Matt Frior quote.

 

Go re-read the entire article. you just proved me right.

 

Todd said none of that. in fact, it mentions in the article that Bethesda has NOTHING to do with ESO.

in that article, it just said Todd Howard mentioned fans wanting multiplayer in ES.

nice try.... wait.... not really.

 

Please, re-read it if you think I'm mistaken.

 

Sorry my bad. But who owns ZeniMax? Better yet who owns Bethesda?

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/21/13 1:47:58 PM#213
Originally posted by jfoytek

Lets not forget that WoW released with some pretty great PvP content and thru the years alienated its pvp base.....  I played WoW in the early days I was impressed by it, it was on a level far beyond anything else not because it was a theampark but because it was all kinds of new and shinny......

Where wow royaly sucked was in the Crafting department,,,,

An area that SWG was possibly the best game of ALL TIME....

But NGE destroyed Crafting thus destroying the one part of that game that could have stood the test of time and weathered the shinnyness of WoW....

WoW shipped with Terran Mill vs Southshore as its pvp content. That was it. With horribly unbalanced classes to boot.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/21/13 1:49:04 PM#214
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Sorry my bad. But who owns ZeniMax?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZeniMax_Media

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  Nanfoodle

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3369

3/21/13 1:51:11 PM#215
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Sorry my bad. But who owns ZeniMax?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZeniMax_Media

 So ZeniMax & Bethesda are all the same corporation. How is this not the official TES game? 

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/21/13 1:51:53 PM#216
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Sorry my bad. But who owns ZeniMax?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZeniMax_Media

 So ZeniMax & Bethesda are all the same corporation. How is this not the official TES game? 

Because Fanboys.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1300

3/21/13 1:53:07 PM#217
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by SysFail
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by SysFail

Hats off to EVE, they're showing how to develop an MMO over time, where as titles like Conan and Warhammer are showing that if you bring a piece of shit to the market, your get hammered for it.

Arguable. EVE has 2 factors in its favor that most others do not, namely PLEX and how its used in its economy, and a singular progression system that all but forces you to have multiple accounts if you actually want to effectively take part in multiple facets of gameplay in a timely manner. By all accounts (unfortunetly I can no longer find the link) EVE has one of the highest multi account playerbases of mmo players. The last numbers I say but it upwards of 30% of its playerbase have 2 accounts or more, which considering its low system demands makes a lot of sense.

One thing that is clear from that chart however, is that there is most definitely room for a AAA sandbox on the market, it won't hit the millions, but it will certainly pay for its self with profit to boot and will have a higher retention rate than a themepark, just because of the nature of the sandbox player.

Why wont it hit the millions???  Give this Sandbox a powerful IP like Star Wars or in this case TES and it sure could!

Heck if the original SWG was rereleased!!!  I bet it could come damn near the million mark!

And before you say but it only hit 500K the first time .....

This is true but that was then there were less gamers playing MMO's and WoW was the fresh new shiny toy....  WoW is no longer so shinny and people want a game just like SWG!

All evidance points to the opposite. Pretty much every themepark deemed as a "flop" (save for maybe WAR), still have more subs than any themepark before it. Lets not forget that SWG launched only a year before WoW..not some 4 year gap where the "industry changed". The reason why WoW literally emptied out all themeparks was not just because it was "new and shiny", but because it had content for every type of player...those who wanted to lose themselves for hours on end, and those that wanted quick spurts of fun, both of which are staples of Themeparks. CCP even said that thier biggest challenge is adding content that can be done in short time spans, without the need to spend massive amounts of hours to achieve. Time needed in and of itself is a staple of sandboxes, and as has been proven quite a bit, is not something the majority of MMO players have.

Lets not forget that WoW released with some pretty great PvP content and thru the years alienated its pvp base.....  I played WoW in the early days I was impressed by it, it was on a level far beyond anything else not because it was a theampark but because it was all kinds of new and shinny......

Where wow royaly sucked was in the Crafting department,,,,

An area that SWG was possibly the best game of ALL TIME....

But NGE destroyed Crafting thus destroying the one part of that game that could have stood the test of time and weathered the shinnyness of WoW....

Lets not conviently forget that the NGE was implemented because SWG had already been bleeding subs for quite some time. NGE was a last ditch effort to save the game.

I dont think anybody is arguing that sandboxes wont have a sizable following, but lets also not put blinders on and try to imply that themeparks are not the overwelming saught after type of MMO.

  jfoytek

Novice Member

Joined: 6/25/12
Posts: 151

 
OP  3/21/13 1:55:15 PM#218
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by SysFail
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by SysFail

Hats off to EVE, they're showing how to develop an MMO over time, where as titles like Conan and Warhammer are showing that if you bring a piece of shit to the market, your get hammered for it.

Arguable. EVE has 2 factors in its favor that most others do not, namely PLEX and how its used in its economy, and a singular progression system that all but forces you to have multiple accounts if you actually want to effectively take part in multiple facets of gameplay in a timely manner. By all accounts (unfortunetly I can no longer find the link) EVE has one of the highest multi account playerbases of mmo players. The last numbers I say but it upwards of 30% of its playerbase have 2 accounts or more, which considering its low system demands makes a lot of sense.

One thing that is clear from that chart however, is that there is most definitely room for a AAA sandbox on the market, it won't hit the millions, but it will certainly pay for its self with profit to boot and will have a higher retention rate than a themepark, just because of the nature of the sandbox player.

Why wont it hit the millions???  Give this Sandbox a powerful IP like Star Wars or in this case TES and it sure could!

Heck if the original SWG was rereleased!!!  I bet it could come damn near the million mark!

And before you say but it only hit 500K the first time .....

This is true but that was then there were less gamers playing MMO's and WoW was the fresh new shiny toy....  WoW is no longer so shinny and people want a game just like SWG!

All evidance points to the opposite. Pretty much every themepark deemed as a "flop" (save for maybe WAR), still have more subs than any themepark before it. Lets not forget that SWG launched only a year before WoW..not some 4 year gap where the "industry changed". The reason why WoW literally emptied out all themeparks was not just because it was "new and shiny", but because it had content for every type of player...those who wanted to lose themselves for hours on end, and those that wanted quick spurts of fun, both of which are staples of Themeparks. CCP even said that thier biggest challenge is adding content that can be done in short time spans, without the need to spend massive amounts of hours to achieve. Time needed in and of itself is a staple of sandboxes, and as has been proven quite a bit, is not something the majority of MMO players have.

Lets not forget that WoW released with some pretty great PvP content and thru the years alienated its pvp base.....  I played WoW in the early days I was impressed by it, it was on a level far beyond anything else not because it was a theampark but because it was all kinds of new and shinny......

Where wow royaly sucked was in the Crafting department,,,,

An area that SWG was possibly the best game of ALL TIME....

But NGE destroyed Crafting thus destroying the one part of that game that could have stood the test of time and weathered the shinnyness of WoW....

Lets not conviently forget that the NGE was implemented because SWG had already been bleeding subs for quite some time. NGE was a last ditch effort to save the game.

I dont think anybody is arguing that sandboxes wont have a sizable following, but lets also not put blinders on and try to imply that themeparks are not the overwelming saught after type of MMO.

NGE was idiots listening to carebears!  The game is too hard make it easier, pls pls.... Take Item decay away pls pls, my armor breaks to easy and the armorsmiths charge too much please take item decay away....  Oh and I want to be a jedi....

UO,Shadowbane,SWG,Darkfall,MO,Wurm Online,Secretworld,GW,GW2,PotBS,LotR,Atlantica Online,WWII Online,WoT,Battlestar Galactica,Planetside2,Perpetuum,Fallen Earth,Runescape,WoW,Eve,Xsylon,Dragon Prophet, Salem

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1300

3/21/13 1:57:09 PM#219
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by SysFail
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by SysFail

Hats off to EVE, they're showing how to develop an MMO over time, where as titles like Conan and Warhammer are showing that if you bring a piece of shit to the market, your get hammered for it.

Arguable. EVE has 2 factors in its favor that most others do not, namely PLEX and how its used in its economy, and a singular progression system that all but forces you to have multiple accounts if you actually want to effectively take part in multiple facets of gameplay in a timely manner. By all accounts (unfortunetly I can no longer find the link) EVE has one of the highest multi account playerbases of mmo players. The last numbers I say but it upwards of 30% of its playerbase have 2 accounts or more, which considering its low system demands makes a lot of sense.

One thing that is clear from that chart however, is that there is most definitely room for a AAA sandbox on the market, it won't hit the millions, but it will certainly pay for its self with profit to boot and will have a higher retention rate than a themepark, just because of the nature of the sandbox player.

Why wont it hit the millions???  Give this Sandbox a powerful IP like Star Wars or in this case TES and it sure could!

Heck if the original SWG was rereleased!!!  I bet it could come damn near the million mark!

And before you say but it only hit 500K the first time .....

This is true but that was then there were less gamers playing MMO's and WoW was the fresh new shiny toy....  WoW is no longer so shinny and people want a game just like SWG!

All evidance points to the opposite. Pretty much every themepark deemed as a "flop" (save for maybe WAR), still have more subs than any themepark before it. Lets not forget that SWG launched only a year before WoW..not some 4 year gap where the "industry changed". The reason why WoW literally emptied out all themeparks was not just because it was "new and shiny", but because it had content for every type of player...those who wanted to lose themselves for hours on end, and those that wanted quick spurts of fun, both of which are staples of Themeparks. CCP even said that thier biggest challenge is adding content that can be done in short time spans, without the need to spend massive amounts of hours to achieve. Time needed in and of itself is a staple of sandboxes, and as has been proven quite a bit, is not something the majority of MMO players have.

Lets not forget that WoW released with some pretty great PvP content and thru the years alienated its pvp base.....  I played WoW in the early days I was impressed by it, it was on a level far beyond anything else not because it was a theampark but because it was all kinds of new and shinny......

Where wow royaly sucked was in the Crafting department,,,,

An area that SWG was possibly the best game of ALL TIME....

But NGE destroyed Crafting thus destroying the one part of that game that could have stood the test of time and weathered the shinnyness of WoW....

Lets not conviently forget that the NGE was implemented because SWG had already been bleeding subs for quite some time. NGE was a last ditch effort to save the game.

I dont think anybody is arguing that sandboxes wont have a sizable following, but lets also not put blinders on and try to imply that themeparks are not the overwelming saught after type of MMO.

NGE was idiots listening to carebears!  The game is too hard make it easier, pls pls.... Take Item decay away pls pls, my armor breaks to easy and the armorsmiths charge too much please take item decay away....  Oh and I want to be a jedi....

No, NGE was them listening to their sub numbers drop like flies...

  jfoytek

Novice Member

Joined: 6/25/12
Posts: 151

 
OP  3/21/13 2:00:01 PM#220
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by SysFail
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by SysFail

Hats off to EVE, they're showing how to develop an MMO over time, where as titles like Conan and Warhammer are showing that if you bring a piece of shit to the market, your get hammered for it.

Arguable. EVE has 2 factors in its favor that most others do not, namely PLEX and how its used in its economy, and a singular progression system that all but forces you to have multiple accounts if you actually want to effectively take part in multiple facets of gameplay in a timely manner. By all accounts (unfortunetly I can no longer find the link) EVE has one of the highest multi account playerbases of mmo players. The last numbers I say but it upwards of 30% of its playerbase have 2 accounts or more, which considering its low system demands makes a lot of sense.

One thing that is clear from that chart however, is that there is most definitely room for a AAA sandbox on the market, it won't hit the millions, but it will certainly pay for its self with profit to boot and will have a higher retention rate than a themepark, just because of the nature of the sandbox player.

Why wont it hit the millions???  Give this Sandbox a powerful IP like Star Wars or in this case TES and it sure could!

Heck if the original SWG was rereleased!!!  I bet it could come damn near the million mark!

And before you say but it only hit 500K the first time .....

This is true but that was then there were less gamers playing MMO's and WoW was the fresh new shiny toy....  WoW is no longer so shinny and people want a game just like SWG!

All evidance points to the opposite. Pretty much every themepark deemed as a "flop" (save for maybe WAR), still have more subs than any themepark before it. Lets not forget that SWG launched only a year before WoW..not some 4 year gap where the "industry changed". The reason why WoW literally emptied out all themeparks was not just because it was "new and shiny", but because it had content for every type of player...those who wanted to lose themselves for hours on end, and those that wanted quick spurts of fun, both of which are staples of Themeparks. CCP even said that thier biggest challenge is adding content that can be done in short time spans, without the need to spend massive amounts of hours to achieve. Time needed in and of itself is a staple of sandboxes, and as has been proven quite a bit, is not something the majority of MMO players have.

Lets not forget that WoW released with some pretty great PvP content and thru the years alienated its pvp base.....  I played WoW in the early days I was impressed by it, it was on a level far beyond anything else not because it was a theampark but because it was all kinds of new and shinny......

Where wow royaly sucked was in the Crafting department,,,,

An area that SWG was possibly the best game of ALL TIME....

But NGE destroyed Crafting thus destroying the one part of that game that could have stood the test of time and weathered the shinnyness of WoW....

Lets not conviently forget that the NGE was implemented because SWG had already been bleeding subs for quite some time. NGE was a last ditch effort to save the game.

I dont think anybody is arguing that sandboxes wont have a sizable following, but lets also not put blinders on and try to imply that themeparks are not the overwelming saught after type of MMO.

NGE was idiots listening to carebears!  The game is too hard make it easier, pls pls.... Take Item decay away pls pls, my armor breaks to easy and the armorsmiths charge too much please take item decay away....  Oh and I want to be a jedi....

No, NGE was them listening to their sub numbers drop like flies...

NO it was Carebears ruining yet another game like they did with UO and there whinning that created Trammel, NGE was yet another Carebear whine campaign that destroyed another game!

UO,Shadowbane,SWG,Darkfall,MO,Wurm Online,Secretworld,GW,GW2,PotBS,LotR,Atlantica Online,WWII Online,WoT,Battlestar Galactica,Planetside2,Perpetuum,Fallen Earth,Runescape,WoW,Eve,Xsylon,Dragon Prophet, Salem

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