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News & Features Discussion  » Shroud of the Avatar: Garriott Opines: 'Most game designers really just suck.'

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61 posts found
  SBFord

Associate Editor - News Manager

Joined: 6/28/10
Posts: 13260

 
OP  3/20/13 8:48:57 AM#1

In a new interview at PC Gamer, Richard Garriott has revealed that he believes "most game designers really just suck." He goes on to say that the reason for this is due to a lack of quality education in awesome game design and a lack of fundamental cross-job training.

“So we’re leaning on a lot of designers who get that job because they’re not qualified for the other jobs, rather than that they are really strongly qualified as a designer. It’s really hard to go to school to be a good designer.”

Read the full article at the link above.

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

  Talonsin

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/19/06
Posts: 1040

3/20/13 8:53:30 AM#2

This coming from the guy who designed Tabala Rasa?  Pot, meet kettle.

 

  User Deleted
3/20/13 8:55:23 AM#3
This totally turned me off. There's no need to bash the industry in order to bolster your own little game. What a sorry and sad attitude.
  BadSpock

Elite Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7699

Logic be damned!

3/20/13 8:59:01 AM#4
You know, as arrogant as it sounds he is probably right.

Now Playing:
Looking Towards: Destiny

  BadSpock

Elite Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7699

Logic be damned!

3/20/13 9:02:02 AM#5
Tabula Rasa was something great and special - at first - but after RG left the post-launch management of the game ruined it.
It had so much potential, to be a truly dynamic virtual world with a unique and interesting systems - but they wow'd it up post launch instead of playing to the games strengths.

Now Playing:
Looking Towards: Destiny

  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1864

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

3/20/13 9:03:50 AM#6

i have no problem with arrogance.

 

let's see if his skills are as good as he thinks, or if he just was the right man at the right time and the right place for the first RPGs to happen.

he surely doesn't set his goals low tho.

 

 

ps: and obviously he IS right. just check the latest mmos. why did you think the term "WoW clone" came up, because those designers come up with something new every time or because we are in the world of clonecraft :)

 

it was basically quite easy to make the "first" DnD games on a computer. the frameset was there, you just had to come up with a good storry, and everyone who has been a GM for PnP games knows that's possible.

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  uller30

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/03
Posts: 115

3/20/13 9:05:40 AM#7
Talk about an out of touch old ass hat. I mean what has he done but kill his own games become some price to bash the industry he helped start and then is stuck in 1995. Come on you old coot, just take your rolyity checks and go fish. Move the middle what is he doing to move the needle. Saw his whole new mm/mmo and I said so its like D2 and stuff. NEXT
  Carpara

Novice Member

Joined: 8/01/12
Posts: 3

3/20/13 9:06:37 AM#8
Now he put himself into a great position. If his game will succeed, he's great. If it fails, he sucks. Then we all know...
  Dracondis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/14/09
Posts: 160

3/20/13 9:07:14 AM#9
Originally posted by BadSpock
You know, as arrogant as it sounds he is probably right.

He is right.  You can't go to school to be a game designer.  YOu can go for programming, you can go for art, music, etc, but you can't learn to be a designer.  There is no degree program for Game Design.  When I went to school for it, they put me in a programming program instead and told me I'd be more employable as a programmer than a designer because anyone could be a designer, so they never hired them from the outside.

I hated that school.

Originally posted by Thane

i have no problem with arrogance.

ps: and obviously he IS right. just check the latest mmos. why did you think the term "WoW clone" came up, because those designers come up with something new every time or because we are in the world of clonecraft :)

it was basically quite easy to make the "first" DnD games on a computer. the frameset was there, you just had to come up with a good storry, and everyone who has been a GM for PnP games knows that's possible.

I know that it's not as easy as you think.  Finding a good GM/DM/ST/etc is rough, because good stories don't just happen.  You have to have vision, and you have to have skill at wordcraft.  For a GM, you also have to have some level of technical expertise with the system you're running.  Thast isn't so with an MMO.  A Game Designer just has to have a story and a vision, and if he can communicate that to his team, they can program it.  He has to be the framework, the broad outline, and the details that others use to build a game.

 
  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1864

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

3/20/13 9:07:33 AM#10
Originally posted by uller30
Talk about an out of touch old ass hat. I mean what has he done but kill his own games become some price to bash the industry he helped start and then is stuck in 1995. Come on you old coot, just take your rolyity checks and go fish. Move the middle what is he doing to move the needle. Saw his whole new mm/mmo and I said so its like D2 and stuff. NEXT

you saw his new game?

now that's impressive. thought he was still working on it.

 

damn i want that time machine of yours!

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  uller30

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/03
Posts: 115

3/20/13 9:21:40 AM#11
@thane
While it looks interesting I don't want two characters to level or just one for the game. I would ant 1 toon not a separation of the two. There is a difference from arrogance and confidence he is currently are oven in his statement. Yes not all are able to be designers but at the time the industry was wow. WOW did good really good and people liked that game play fast forward 8 years, it's he action idea forcabt you dodge jump and counter moves now. While wow is strong still game devs are moving from Rhodes ideas slowly to a more players need to really pay attention GW2 ideas. I play over games and I'm used to jump from the note/hidden mob wow attacks.

The reason his stament is him Bering a raging dick is how do you make better devs? It does not start from they all suck but me, rather they suck and I wan to help new people and existing creators get better. True there are little to no schooling for devs but from mentors. I just could not sit and take hi seriously for his blatant attitude if all other mmos developed sine ultimate and wow we're bad. What still going after 8+ years , eve online, eq, flufy, guild wars franchise. I just though he was better than his ass hat statements.
  uller30

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/03
Posts: 115

3/20/13 9:23:00 AM#12
I hate my phone :( text it right and stupid auto correct.
  kishe

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 1959

firefighter lvl90

3/20/13 9:24:13 AM#13

Garriot is great lore designer but it really takes special type of developers to make his visions in to reality.

Reason why Origin games were so great was that Garriot had great team of likeminded people who had the skills and knoweledge to turn his vision in to a game.

Tabula Rasa was doomed from the moment NCSoft told them to scrap the Fantasy bits from the already beta ready MMO and go with Scifi instead (without giving them much more development time)

  Wighty

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 575

3/20/13 9:26:50 AM#14

As a long time fan of Ultima (Origin Systems) having played everything up to and including his Original Alkabeth, as someone who is familiar with his work in comparison to modern game development in terms of complexity and scope he is absolutely correct...

 

Seems most developers are just trrying to "reskin" whats hot in the market instead of whats in their heart...

 

There is a resurgance of old school developers that are now coming out of hibernation, guys like Brian Fargo and Chris Roberts, who have appeared to lay dormany for years but are responsible for some of the greatest games of their era and helped shape the future of gaming...

 

I see Garriot as one of these forefathers and really hope he has it in him to do something great.... He is a bit of a kook, and I really hope he is not going to do to the modern "revisioned Ultima" what George Lucas did to the new Starwars...

 

If he sticks to his original vision with some modern flavor it will be awesome, however if he decides to change the secret sauce to something different and throw some Jar Jar Binks crap in there... well we got a lemon on our hands...

What are your other Hobbies?

Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  Ozmodan

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6632

3/20/13 9:31:34 AM#15
Originally posted by BadSpock
You know, as arrogant as it sounds he is probably right.

Agree, look at all the current MMO's, not much great design.  Just look at SWTOR for example, what a travesty for all that money spent.  Can't say much good about the up and coming ones either although some of the indie's could change that.  You have to lay the blame on poor design throughout.  

  kishe

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 1959

firefighter lvl90

3/20/13 9:33:42 AM#16
Originally posted by Ozmodan
Originally posted by BadSpock
You know, as arrogant as it sounds he is probably right.

Agree, look at all the current MMO's, not much great design.  Just look at SWTOR for example, what a travesty for all that money spent.  Can't say much good about the up and coming ones either although some of the indie's could change that.  You have to lay the blame on poor design throughout.  

 

99% of design money goes on "Shiny" ...rest goes in gameplay and content.

 

 

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

3/20/13 9:34:12 AM#17
Originally posted by uller30
Talk about an out of touch old ass hat. I mean what has he done but kill his own games become some price to bash the industry he helped start and then is stuck in 1995. Come on you old coot, just take your rolyity checks and go fish. Move the middle what is he doing to move the needle. Saw his whole new mm/mmo and I said so its like D2 and stuff. NEXT

 Wait. So, the guy that takes text based RPGs and makes the first graphics based RPG which the entire genre was based on for 15 YEARS with his innovations...then pushes the MMO genre to the forefront with his first MMO who then creates the first MMO based shooter which current ones take from...is out of touch?

lol...

Seriously, the guy keeps making DIFFERENT types games.

Want to talk about out of touch, lets talk about the makers of DaoC2...erm I mean TESO and CU that seem to think DaoCs little box is still a good idea to base games off of, a box so small that other companies chose THAT part of the game not to mimmick.

  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1424

3/20/13 9:37:24 AM#18

such arrogance

just look at his kickstarter : "I ARE MADE TEH ULTIMAZ!!! PAY ME NOAW!!!" what a tool. I realize it's just pre-production footage, but the gameplay footage in that kickstarter is what sucks.

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  BadSpock

Elite Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7699

Logic be damned!

3/20/13 9:38:18 AM#19
Originally posted by kishe
Originally posted by Ozmodan
Originally posted by BadSpock
You know, as arrogant as it sounds he is probably right.

Agree, look at all the current MMO's, not much great design.  Just look at SWTOR for example, what a travesty for all that money spent.  Can't say much good about the up and coming ones either although some of the indie's could change that.  You have to lay the blame on poor design throughout.  

99% of design money goes on "Shiny" ...rest goes in gameplay and content.

I mean, seriously, what are some of the "best" games out right now?

How many of them are truly original and compelling games with unique gameplay and how many are rehashes with better GFX and a couple of cool tweaks here and there?

Right now I'm playing Skyrim, which is an amazing game - but very little difference in gameplay system than Oblivion or Morrowind in the end.

And StarCraft II - Heart of the Swarm - which is an amazing game - but very little difference in gameplay system than Starcraft 1 or Warcraft III etc.

And also Path of Exile - which is an amazing game - but very little difference in gameplay system than Diablo or Torchlight etc.

And Sim5 - which is full of issues, but still an amazing game - but very little difference in gameplay system than any other Sim City game or other such city builder.

The most "unique" and innovative game I'm playing at the moment is Minecraft - and it's SO simple. Indie devs are usually just as bad as the big boys - they just have less money so it's even WORSE of gameplay, but every once in a while you get a lightning strike amazing game and dev like Minecraft.

Now Playing:
Looking Towards: Destiny

  Flaming_MMO

Novice Member

Joined: 2/13/12
Posts: 141

3/20/13 9:39:52 AM#20
Richard Garriot has always reminded me of a combination of Chris Elliot (Get A Life, Eagleheart etc) and ex pitcher John Smoltz.
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