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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Poll: Graphics or Gameplay ;)

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41 posts found
  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2118

joie de vivre

 
OP  3/19/13 3:55:46 PM#1

I couldn't resist and I did not leave room for a gray area, black or white, no middle ground, one or the other. If you had to pick...

What is more important to you?

Graphics
Gameplay
(login to vote)

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  DeanMalinco

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/13
Posts: 26

3/19/13 4:09:04 PM#2
i voted but...not sure of the point of this poll. CSE has already posted their stance on this...
  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/19/13 4:11:53 PM#3
Your poll and thread are bad. The answer is both, especially if you are attempting to be even a mild success.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2118

joie de vivre

 
OP  3/19/13 4:16:28 PM#4


Originally posted by jimdandy26
Your poll and thread are bad. The answer is both, especially if you are attempting to be even a mild success.

Minecraft, D3, LOL and even Tetris or Angry birds might think otherwise...

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  meddyck

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1134

3/19/13 4:48:11 PM#5
It's not an either/or thing. Nobody or very few are going to play a game that looks amazing but has terrible gameplay for very long. But neither are they going to want to pay a monthly sub for something that looks like it was released in 2001. CU needs to play something like DAOC did before TOA and look something like DAOC or WAR might have if they had gotten a few more expansions with graphics engine upgrades.

Camelot Unchained Backer
DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/19/13 4:53:48 PM#6
Originally posted by Xobdnas

 


Originally posted by jimdandy26
Your poll and thread are bad. The answer is both, especially if you are attempting to be even a mild success.

 

Minecraft, D3, LOL and even Tetris or Angry birds might think otherwise...

Minecraft and Tetris both fill roles (and needs) that no other game has been able to fill. D3 and LoL both have solid graphics. A better "attempt" to refute my argument would be to point to something like Dwarf Fortress, but even that is a really tough sell since its really not overly successful, and has to compete with a number of other games that do similar things many times better, like Civilization, or Sim City. Even bowing into the indy scene you can hit on titles like FTL, but again, its graphics are far from bad. A bigger peice of this puzzle of course is aesthetics vs graphics.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/19/13 4:57:42 PM#7
Originally posted by meddyck
It's not an either/or thing. Nobody or very few are going to play a game that looks amazing but has terrible gameplay for very long. But neither are they going to want to pay a monthly sub for something that looks like it was released in 2001. CU needs to play something like DAOC did before TOA and look something like DAOC or WAR might have if they had gotten a few more expansions with graphics engine upgrades.

You "true" players of Daoc really need to get off this "must be pre toa" rant. Tao did not lose them any customers.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Plastic-Metal

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 423

3/19/13 4:57:56 PM#8

I'm blown away.  At the time of this posting, 16 votes are for Gameplay while 0 are for Graphics.  Have we FINALLY found something that unites the entire Camelot Unchained community?

SHUT THE FRONT DOOR.

My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

  Plastic-Metal

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 423

3/19/13 4:59:25 PM#9
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by meddyck
It's not an either/or thing. Nobody or very few are going to play a game that looks amazing but has terrible gameplay for very long. But neither are they going to want to pay a monthly sub for something that looks like it was released in 2001. CU needs to play something like DAOC did before TOA and look something like DAOC or WAR might have if they had gotten a few more expansions with graphics engine upgrades.

You "true" players of Daoc really need to get off this "must be pre toa" rant. Tao did not lose them any customers.

Actually, as much as I love DAoC... ToA was an absolute disaster for a lot of players and ended up ruining the experience for a lot of gamers until the release of classic servers.

If you could go back and look at historical trending tools for DAoC... besides nerfing left axe, ToA probably had the second highest moan fest attached to it.  Maybe Bonedancers.. then ToA, either way, ToA caused a lot of people grief.

My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2118

joie de vivre

 
OP  3/19/13 5:01:07 PM#10


Originally posted by jimdandy26

Originally posted by Xobdnas  

Originally posted by jimdandy26 Your poll and thread are bad. The answer is both, especially if you are attempting to be even a mild success.
  Minecraft, D3, LOL and even Tetris or Angry birds might think otherwise...
Minecraft and Tetris both fill roles (and needs) that no other game has been able to fill. D3 and LoL both have solid graphics. A better "attempt" to refute my argument would be to point to something like Dwarf Fortress, but even that is a really tough sell since its really not overly successful, and has to compete with a number of other games that do similar things many times better, like Civilization, or Sim City. Even bowing into the indy scene you can hit on titles like FTL, but again, its graphics are far from bad. A bigger peice of this puzzle of course is aesthetics vs graphics.

And just like Minecraft and Tetris, CU is filling the RVR niche so it's graphics matter less than it's gameplay. I'm glad we can agree on something.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2118

joie de vivre

 
OP  3/19/13 5:02:36 PM#11


Originally posted by Plastic-Metal
I'm blown away.  At the time of this posting, 16 votes are for Gameplay while 0 are for Graphics.  Have we FINALLY found something that unites the entire Camelot Unchained community?

SHUT THE FRONT DOOR.


I'm pretty shocked myself, and pretty happy. CU community ftw!

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  Speely

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 864

3/19/13 5:15:43 PM#12
Hardcore niche mmorpg. No big surprises here.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/19/13 5:25:52 PM#13
Originally posted by Xobdnas

And just like Minecraft and Tetris, CU is filling the RVR niche so it's graphics matter less than it's gameplay. I'm glad we can agree on something.

What? Are you blind? It still has competition from Daoc, Eso, and to a lesser extent War and company. That is far from a "first" time niche.

 

Originally posted by Plastic-Metal

Actually, as much as I love DAoC... ToA was an absolute disaster for a lot of players and ended up ruining the experience for a lot of gamers until the release of classic servers.

If you could go back and look at historical trending tools for DAoC... besides nerfing left axe, ToA probably had the second highest moan fest attached to it.  Maybe Bonedancers.. then ToA, either way, ToA caused a lot of people grief.

Whining is generally meaningless though. Action speaks much louder than words, and if it caused actual problems there would have been a massive loss of customers, much like what happened earlier in its life cycle, and then with WoW. Its the very reason why many companies continue to "sell power" even though the crying over p2w is huge.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2118

joie de vivre

 
OP  3/19/13 5:37:26 PM#14


Originally posted by jimdandy26

Originally posted by Xobdnas And just like Minecraft and Tetris, CU is filling the RVR niche so it's graphics matter less than it's gameplay. I'm glad we can agree on something.What? Are you blind? It still has competition from Daoc, Eso, and to a lesser extent War and company. That is far from a "first" time niche.

  Originally posted by Plastic-Metal Actually, as much as I love DAoC... ToA was an absolute disaster for a lot of players and ended up ruining the experience for a lot of gamers until the release of classic servers. If you could go back and look at historical trending tools for DAoC... besides nerfing left axe, ToA probably had the second highest moan fest attached to it.  Maybe Bonedancers.. then ToA, either way, ToA caused a lot of people grief.


Whining is generally meaningless though. Action speaks much louder than words, and if it caused actual problems there would have been a massive loss of customers, much like what happened earlier in its life cycle, and then with WoW. Its the very reason why many companies continue to "sell power" even though the crying over p2w is huge.

Daoc, Eso, and to a lesser extent War and company

ESO is not a PVP game. It's a hand holding Diet Cola PVP game and it's main stream, not niche. DAOC is very old and most of it's players (based on the anitidietal evidence I've gathered) would love to jump ship to a sequel. WAR is almost dead, it doesn't count and it wasn't niche either.

Do you understand what a niche game is?

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/19/13 5:43:06 PM#15
Originally posted by Xobdnas

Daoc, Eso, and to a lesser extent War and company

ESO is not a PVP game. It's a hand holding Diet Cola PVP game and it's main stream, not niche. DAOC is very old and most of it's players (based on the anitidietal evidence I've gathered) would love to jump ship to a sequel. WAR is almost dead, it doesn't count and it wasn't niche either.

Do you understand what a niche game it?

Oh indeed. I am also well aware that based on the sheer amount of press the developer has stirred up its unlikely to actually be so. Its rather rare that any developer sets out to build an actual niche game. Even outside of the money aspect there is also the want for as many people as possible experience your work. If this was something he was setting out to create for just himself, he would have done it without all of this excellent marketing rigamarole.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  rojoArcueid

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5825

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

3/19/13 5:49:30 PM#16

i wont vote because theres not a BOTH option. Games should not be limited to either good gameplay or good graphics. Technology is advanced enough to have both in the same game. To me both good graphics and good gameplay are very important. Gameplay is a bit more important just because graphic visuals is a broader term so you dont need the most realistic graphics in order to have good graphics. All you need is quality in your graphics to make them good.

 

So yeah, give me both good gameplay and quality graphics or dont give me a game. Even a 2D game can have high quality graphics and not be realistic. Some people also think realism = good graphics, which is wrong.

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2118

joie de vivre

 
OP  3/19/13 5:53:45 PM#17


Originally posted by jimdandy26

Originally posted by Xobdnas Daoc, Eso, and to a lesser extent War and company ESO is not a PVP game. It's a hand holding Diet Cola PVP game and it's main stream, not niche. DAOC is very old and most of it's players (based on the anitidietal evidence I've gathered) would love to jump ship to a sequel. WAR is almost dead, it doesn't count and it wasn't niche either. Do you understand what a niche game it?
Oh indeed. I am also well aware that based on the sheer amount of press the developer has stirred up its unlikely to actually be so. Its rather rare that any developer sets out to build an actual niche game. Even outside of the money aspect there is also the want for as many people as possible experience your work. If this was something he was setting out to create for just himself, he would have done it without all of this excellent marketing rigamarole.

Now your just grasping at straws. Apparently you somehow know what MJ is thinking about people "experiencing his work"? I got news for you, he already did that and didn't like how it ended up. Since when are MMORPG, Reddit, and other MMO exclusive sites main stream advertising? If he wanted that he would be all over the larger sites that cover general gaming, not MMO specific sites. Want some more "evidence" that it is niche? Read or listen to any of his interviews. He is making many of his decisions in spite of what the majority of players would want. He is putting things in CU that the majority would not like. And he is putting those things in because the minority of old school MMO players want them. That makes it niche.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3219

3/19/13 6:20:55 PM#18

I can't stand games that blow thier budget just to get super graphics.  Having awesome, realistic, face-melting graphics has many faults and disadvantages to it.  For one, it limits your potential playerbase.  These days, you have people playing on ever older machines.  Not very many people are going to invest $1000 just to play a single game.  Secondly,  graphics get dated, no matter how great they are.  Third, they effect gameplay.  If you're playing on a medium machine that is able to play the game, you will get things like lower framerates, which in most cases means you have things popping up right in front of you, or your attacks are delayed, or your attacks are even missed.  TSW and GW2 are good examples of this, my laptop is exceeds the minimum specs, however, when playing the game it feels choppy.  TSW I had to sit there and just button mash so my attacks would even register.

 

If you take a look at the most succesful MMOs of all time you'll see that almost none of them focused on graphics. WoW, Blizzard focused on gameplay over graphics.  While thier graphics aren't bad, they're not the best.  EQ, The graphics were pretty good for thier time, but there were many other games out at that time that killed thier graphics.  DAoC,  before they updated them, the graphics were horrible when compared to games of the same era.  Even after the graphics update they still were dated.  The list goes on and on.

  ZombieKen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

3/19/13 6:24:46 PM#19

I'm pleased to see any thread that still holds gameplay as a matter of importance.

 

I'm okay with the "both" idea also.  In a near perfect game, both would exist.  I don't see them as mutually exclusive.

 

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  infii

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 9

3/19/13 6:32:46 PM#20

Over the years I learned that graphics are kind of 'in the way' of good gameplay.

I enjoyed almost every new game with mediocre graphics, while I didn't even finish most games with awesome graphics.

 

I don't know where this follows from - just an experience I personally made.

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