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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » What is your favorite MMO and what can CU use from it?

15 posts found
  Tierless

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2111

joie de vivre

 
OP  3/18/13 9:15:57 AM#1

I usually don't like these kins of threads but I'm bored.

SWG-what can CU learn from SWG? Don't launch too early. It's better to be late and clean than early and bug filled. Character customization, crafted economies, and housing also keep players invested beyond max level. Equality, peace, simplicity, a SWG player craves not these things. Equality is a lie, peace is myth, simplicity is for the simple minded. Diversity, chaos, complexity, these are the way to niche MMO client retention.

Seriously, SWG had major problems, major bugs, major stability issues, major combat issues, major punishments, and because it allowed us to live in a world we built rather than play in a park someone else scripted for us it maintained 250k dedicated players for years despite so many issues.

It's easy to walk away from a character that looks like everyone else, has the same leet gear as everyone else, and has had 0 impact on the evolution of the game world. It's was painful for me to walk away from a the unique character that I created for myself. It was almost impossible to leave behind the in game museum that I built. It was heart wrenching to abandon the clothing and rare items I spent countless hours acquiring. And most importantly, and this is the number one thing CU can take away from SWG...I never quit SWG entirely until the day it died. I always came back because in a player built economy where you rely on one another the community that forms is something you simply can't turn your back to.

In SWG you didn't just play a game with other people, you lived in a world, your formed a society, your built something special with other players. That is something you can't script, program, or force. It was natural. We were given the tools and we made SWG into more than the devs ever dreamed, problems be damned.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  meddyck

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1132

3/18/13 9:51:50 AM#2
DAOC is my favorite MMO. The biggest thing CU should take away from that game is that fighting people is way more fun than fighting wooden gates. There should be keeps, towers, relics, and hopefully new structures to take we've never seen before but capturing them shouldn't be the only thing you can do in RvR. Just fighting the enemy and having your character get stronger as a result must be possible too.

Camelot Unchained Founder
DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  Tierless

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2111

joie de vivre

 
OP  3/18/13 10:00:15 AM#3


Originally posted by meddyck
DAOC is my favorite MMO. The biggest thing CU should take away from that game is that fighting people is way more fun than fighting wooden gates. There should be keeps, towers, relics, and hopefully new structures to take we've never seen before but capturing them shouldn't be the only thing you can do in RvR. Just fighting the enemy and having your character get stronger as a result must be possible too.

Keeps, Towers, Relics, Bridges, Dams, Lakes, Mills, Ports, Canyons, Mines, Trade Routes, Outposts, Forests, lets make all of it capturable to encourage people to fight one another!

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

3/18/13 10:02:03 AM#4

Judging from all the threads in these forums people are forgetting that CU is going to be an extreme micro-budget game.

 

To expect much other than solid PvP (with meidocre graphics) from 5 million bucks is foolish and you are just setting you up for disappointment (or setting CU up to fail if Jacobs tries to bite off more than he can chew)

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

3/18/13 10:03:50 AM#5
Originally posted by Xobdnas

 We were given the tools and we made SWG into more than the devs ever dreamed

Uh, its pretty much exactly what Koster had in mind.

 

That dude needs to get his ass back to MMORPGs

  shadevice

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/27/12
Posts: 71

3/18/13 10:05:11 AM#6

I'm a PVPer at heart but my f av was EQ1 pre luclin

Take it from it... a harsh unforgiving world

I'm an american so my real life is easy by default...I like my games the opposite but fun at the same time, a hard element to capture successfully, but EQ1 did that. 

  KappenWiz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/06/07
Posts: 163

3/18/13 10:05:41 AM#7

This will probably be vague, but just some general things:

 

  • Would like to see group abilities in the same spirit, but not same mechanics, as LOTRO. I liked that you could have everyone doing something and then a new ability was created. Now, that system wasn't exactly perfect and it wouldn't lend itself to an RvR game, because there was a slight slowdown while everyone chose their color for the fellowship moves, but if a system could be implemented that mixes and matches to make the group work together, that would be a new dimension to RvR.
  • Also from LOTRO, the music system and the general fluff events. A lot of socialization came from those. Again, a music system isn't exactly what would fit for CU, but something that really spurs socialization and "hanging out," will be very important. Consistent RvR is probably going to mean a lot of frantic activity in frontier areas, so a system that leads to people slowing down and BS'ing will be important. In DAOC, people would hang out in crafting areas a lot, so group crafting could be it, but it would have to be a deep, complex system with a lot of "adventure" somehow built in. Trophies in DAOC were also a nice tie-in to the housing and always gave people something to do and talk about a little, so maybe borrow from that, too.
  • From DAoC, the aesthetics. Probably my favorite game for that, period. The music, sound effects, world, characters, scale, and spell effects were spot on. This is a big one for me. I'm not a fan of Nickelodeon-inspired, Crayola spell effects lighting up everything when everyone AOE's at the same time. Also, don't like the damage and heal numbers flying everywhere. Keep the interface clean, spell effects appropriate, no floating numbers, very little target info (no box showing buffs, exact character level spell/ability being cast), and the sound effects gritty and 'real-world.' This is one of the most challenging aspects of this project, imo, to create a new game with the same feel as DAoC, but different enough to stand on its own.
 
  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7195

3/18/13 10:32:23 AM#8

Age of Wushu.

 

From what I gather CU will be a world at war. Well, I hope a world and not just a big battle ground. What AoW does really well is use a lot of non-combat systems, in that pvp may happen.

 

For example the escort system. Escorting is traditionally a pve type endevor. You follow behind someone or thing until a certain point while mobs may or may not try to stop you. In AoW a person escorting a cart cart may or may not encounter players  jumping out trying to stop them.  The rewards for players jumping out (bandits) are evil allignment and xp pills. XP are unbound and can be sold, but are not anything major, so this means it isn't something people feel like they must do.

 

What this system does is create a behind the lines type of feel. Behind the lines as in, not on the ramparts manning cannons, with death starring you in the eye 24/7. These type of systems create the feel of a fuller world. 

 

One more thing would be the crafting system. In AoW you go to different blacksmiths for different types of things. Not every blacksmith does or even have the ability to make everything. Some recipies are rare.

 

There are also built in governers to limit how much can be crafted. A person just can't craft swords all day and crash the market. They do this by tying a stat to the process of crafting that decrease each time something is crafted, also by limiting the amount of funds that can be spent on basic npc items that are needed for crafting, like copper wire.

 

Creating a crafting system in this way, the market stays strong, and leaves enough room for everyone who wants a cut to get a cut, if they work for it.

 

 

 

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  Ellya

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 99

3/18/13 5:26:43 PM#9

I've played many MMO games in my time, but the ones that stick out are

DAoC

SWG

Eve

and yes.. WoW.

 

DAoC for the sheer wonder of it, it was my first real mmo game. I loved the lore, I loved the sense of community and realm pride, I loved the RvR (hated the endless PVE - tree groups anyone?) but I didn't know at the time that it would never be beaten in any other game since. We manked and moaned and eventually left because we thought there would be better things. There was, but never in the RvR sense

SWG because it was so.. beautiful.  The crafting system there has never been beaten, it was a full-time profession and interesting at the same time. Again the pve was so-so, and even the pvp wasn't so great , but it had such atmosphere and a real sense of living in the Star Wars world, especially as you made your way through the player-made cities, stopped off at a cantina or just sat amongst the Corellia flowers watching them sway to and fro.

EVE because I've never felt such a sense of the vastness of space and the complete freedom to do exactly as I choose. It also had the best player made economy and just.. organisation.  The fact that alliances could literally own vast tracts of space, and defend the borders was awesome, in the true sense of the word. The pve again was so-so, but the pvp.. well.. you made damn sure you had insurance!

And lastly WoW.. I have to mention it as it has the best PVE I've ever played. Oh, it got samey after the first couple of years and particularly after the second expansion, but in the beginning it was truly a revelation. No wonder so many clones were spawned!

 

  grogstorm

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/07
Posts: 287

If it ain't broke, dont fix it!

3/18/13 8:51:32 PM#10

The one thing that comes to mind that stands out as the best implementation in MMO’s to date was the pet taming in SWG.  Instead of the vanilla MMO pet class where u cast a spell to summon a pet or WOW’s better but not perfect case, charm the mob and survive its attacks.  In SWG you had to find and stalk a baby of the mob you desired as a pet.  And the baby was always accompanied by its patents that saw you as food.  Not to mention others of his kind who had a taste for adventurer.

I could spend hours studying the pathing of the parents and baby as well as the other surrounding threats.  This was an adventure in itself.  Frequently I was forced to run for my life with the parents nipping at my heals. 

This system added adventure and hours of fun to the game and would like to see it again in CU for their pet classes.

Note:  Yes a group could kill the parents and make this task trivial, but I would hope this would render the baby un-trainable.  No way they would bond to their murders.

Grog

  Odaman

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/13
Posts: 195

3/18/13 9:33:19 PM#11

Daoc- hard interrupt system

war- some of the secondary mechanics were decent

 

  Roguewiz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/01/02
Posts: 502

When a Kender says "oops!"; its already too late.

3/18/13 9:45:12 PM#12

I don't necessarily have an overall favorite MMO, simply because I change MMO's like I change my socks.

If CU learns one thing, and one thing only, it is this:  Don't try to be another < insert MMO here >.  Clones fail.  Plain and simple.  What made WoW a good game was the fact that it took aspects of Everquest and improved on them.  So far, every game that has come out since WoW haven't really "improved" on anything.  Sure, we've had some nice features, but without them; the new game is nothing more than WoW with better graphics, WoW with voice overs in space, or WoW with guns.

If CU is to succeed, in my eyes, in needs the following:

  1. Don't copy WoW.
  2. Don't be soley themepark, or sandbox.  A fair mix of the two will win.
  3. Active combat, not the wack-a-mole that we've been doing since Everquest
  4. Dynamic content, not this "collect X, Kill Y" crap
  5. Robust character creation.  Give me thousands of skills to choose from!  Let me build the way I want
  6. Meaningful PvP.  Not battlegrounds (except to kill time).  Not Arenas.  Not the lakes from WAR.  Give me PvP that effects the world.
  7. Guild Keeps.  Shadowbane anyone?
  8. Real player housing, instanced or not, doesn't matter; as long as the player can customize!
I know, I know.  Wishful thinking, right?
 
In any case, CU can be successful as long as the devs keep in mind:  WoW is a fluke of nature.  10mil worldwide subs probably won't happen again.  Shoot for being successful out the gate and keeping a healthy base to allow the game to grow.

Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Everquest, Hearthstone, League of Legends
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next, Everquest Next Landmark, Archeage

The secret to making a great game: Don't cater to the masses!

  Tierless

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2111

joie de vivre

 
OP  3/19/13 1:21:03 PM#13


Originally posted by grogstorm
The one thing that comes to mind that stands out as the best implementation in MMO’s to date was the pet taming in SWG.  Instead of the vanilla MMO pet class where u cast a spell to summon a pet or WOW’s better but not perfect case, charm the mob and survive its attacks.  In SWG you had to find and stalk a baby of the mob you desired as a pet.  And the baby was always accompanied by its patents that saw you as food.  Not to mention others of his kind who had a taste for adventurer.

I could spend hours studying the pathing of the parents and baby as well as the other surrounding threats.  This was an adventure in itself.  Frequently I was forced to run for my life with the parents nipping at my heals. 

This system added adventure and hours of fun to the game and would like to see it again in CU for their pet classes.

Note:  Yes a group could kill the parents and make this task trivial, but I would hope this would render the baby un-trainable.  No way they would bond to their murders.


I had forgotten how deep that pet system was. It was really ahead of it's time.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  Roguewiz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/01/02
Posts: 502

When a Kender says "oops!"; its already too late.

3/19/13 4:44:50 PM#14
Originally posted by Xobdnas

 


Originally posted by grogstorm
The one thing that comes to mind that stands out as the best implementation in MMO’s to date was the pet taming in SWG.  Instead of the vanilla MMO pet class where u cast a spell to summon a pet or WOW’s better but not perfect case, charm the mob and survive its attacks.  In SWG you had to find and stalk a baby of the mob you desired as a pet.  And the baby was always accompanied by its patents that saw you as food.  Not to mention others of his kind who had a taste for adventurer.

 

I could spend hours studying the pathing of the parents and baby as well as the other surrounding threats.  This was an adventure in itself.  Frequently I was forced to run for my life with the parents nipping at my heals. 

This system added adventure and hours of fun to the game and would like to see it again in CU for their pet classes.

Note:  Yes a group could kill the parents and make this task trivial, but I would hope this would render the baby un-trainable.  No way they would bond to their murders.


 

I had forgotten how deep that pet system was. It was really ahead of it's time.

I remember when a friend of mine got a Rancor.  He was beyond happy.

Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Everquest, Hearthstone, League of Legends
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next, Everquest Next Landmark, Archeage

The secret to making a great game: Don't cater to the masses!

  Loira

Novice Member

Joined: 2/15/07
Posts: 89

3/19/13 7:45:39 PM#15

I don't really have a favorite MMORPG at this point.  I do have tons of different aspects from several games that I loved.

LOTRO - Costume tabs. Group ability system

WOW - The original PVE stuff was awesome and I have always loved the Warcraft storyline

DAOC - RvR. Darkness Falls. Community. Relics. Keeps

Eve - Vastness. Freedom.  Manufacturing system. Economy

WAR - Story line was great.  RvR of course, but DAOC did it better.  Interesting classes. Chickens :)

I could go on and on.

That being said, I know CU does not have the buget to do all this stuff (at least not out of the gate).  For CSE I would simply say Slow and Low is the tempo.  Do not feel like you have to include a ton of features.  Keep it playable and make sure the basics are in and working well at launch.  Features can be added later.  I have a ton of faith in Mark and the CSE team to make an awesome game.  So many found memories of DAOC.

For the community looking forward to this game, which I am very much a part of, remember this is basically an independant game.  Wish lists are great, but remember that it takes time and money to get there.  I remember when Eve launched and 2K players online was a ton.  Look at it today.  It is probably the best example of a niche game in the industry today as it continues to put strong numbers.

For the first time in a really LONG LONG time, I am excited about a game, and we know next to nothing about it yet.  Thanks Mark and the whole CSE team and best of luck.  See you on launch day.