Trending Games | Dragon Age: Inquisition | ArcheAge | World of Warcraft | Elder Scrolls Online

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,645,582 Users Online:0
Games:685  Posts:6,081,922
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Everquest Next: Landmark Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Defining the purpose of steath ; the first step (POLL inside)

3 Pages « 1 2 3 » Search
51 posts found
  BowbowDAoC

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/10
Posts: 482

 
OP  3/16/13 5:35:55 PM#21
Originally posted by Xobdnas

Troubled I am. Just for ganking and unfair advantages a quarter of you would use this power. A dark time this is.

But on the other end, 60% wants stealth for more strategic purposes, there is hope :D

Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4509

3/16/13 5:37:33 PM#22
Originally posted by Tumblebutz
Originally posted by BowbowDAoC

I wasnt try to make it that way though. My choices were  to see if people would rather see stealth used for  :

(1)purely scouting and "passive" actions,

(2) something a bit more "active" but not necessarly in combat or

(3) for combat purpose only.

It could end up being a bit of each too, but with the post that came right before the poll, i suggested some specific questions to help people have a more profound thought about stealth, rather than a simple "love or hate".

Gotcha.  That makes sense.  Maybe that's how the poll should read.  First question (in a series of questions about stealth): Should you be able to attack from stealth?  Yes/No

A very good question. However, I think for the purposes of this discussion, the real quesiton should be 'is it necessary'?

I've seen squishy melee DPS (rogue-like classes) do just fine w/ out stealth. I've also played games (including the original DAoC) in which it was possible to be sneaky, scout, and sneak up on people without relying on stealth.

I'd argue that, like taunt, stealth is one of those mechanics born out of old tech. We've grown up on it, gotten used to it, but I think it's a mistake to then assume that it's somehow necessary because 'it's always been that way'. It's one thing to want a game designed like an older game you loved. It's an entirely different thing to assume games have to be designed that way to be good.

  BowbowDAoC

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/10
Posts: 482

 
OP  3/16/13 5:50:38 PM#23
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Tumblebutz
Originally posted by BowbowDAoC

I wasnt try to make it that way though. My choices were  to see if people would rather see stealth used for  :

(1)purely scouting and "passive" actions,

(2) something a bit more "active" but not necessarly in combat or

(3) for combat purpose only.

It could end up being a bit of each too, but with the post that came right before the poll, i suggested some specific questions to help people have a more profound thought about stealth, rather than a simple "love or hate".

Gotcha.  That makes sense.  Maybe that's how the poll should read.  First question (in a series of questions about stealth): Should you be able to attack from stealth?  Yes/No

A very good question. However, I think for the purposes of this discussion, the real quesiton should be 'is it necessary'?

I've seen squishy melee DPS (rogue-like classes) do just fine w/ out stealth. I've also played games (including the original DAoC) in which it was possible to be sneaky, scout, and sneak up on people without relying on stealth.

I'd argue that, like taunt, stealth is one of those mechanics born out of old tech. We've grown up on it, gotten used to it, but I think it's a mistake to then assume that it's somehow necessary because 'it's always been that way'. It's one thing to want a game designed like an older game you loved. It's an entirely different thing to assume games have to be designed that way to be good.

Thats the exact reason why i started this topic in the first place. Stealth has been part of many mmos in the last decade, but not all of them had it designed for a specific purpose. So its a good idea to discuss WHY would CU and the players could / would want stealth to be implemented. and it all depends on the game itself headstart, the end game, the goals, the reason we fight PvP.

Knowing all that would then help to figure out HOW to implement stealth, thats the main reason of the initial post here.

we could easily think of many "new" ways to have stealth in a game.

I have plenty of ideas on how to implement stealth, depending on what purpose it should fill in the game. but its gonna be a long post when i make it ( i tend to use more words to explain myself since i'm french canadian  :P )

Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR

  MarkJacobs

CEO City State Entertainment

Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 405

3/16/13 6:41:00 PM#24

...and people wonder why I want to discuss stealth with our backers, want to try something outside the box, etc. This and all the other threads regarding stealth here, other forums, other games, etc. are proof that my intentions are good, Oh Lord! Please don't let me be misunderstood. :)

Back to eye-charts.

 

 

Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment

  BowbowDAoC

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/10
Posts: 482

 
OP  3/16/13 6:42:57 PM#25
Originally posted by MarkJacobs

...and people wonder why I want to discuss stealth with our backers, want to try something outside the box, etc. This and all the other threads regarding stealth here, other forums, other games, etc. are proof that my intentions are good, Oh Lord! Please don't let me be misunderstood. :)

Back to eye-charts.

 

 

lol :)

When there's a will, there's a way :)

Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR

  User Deleted
3/16/13 6:45:48 PM#26

First two combined.  Scouting, spying, sabotage, and assasination.

 

 

  Pie_Rat

Novice Member

Joined: 7/02/05
Posts: 249

3/16/13 7:13:27 PM#27
Originally posted by BowbowDAoC
Originally posted by Pie_Rat

Begone with stealth in MMOs. It's stupidly unrealistic. There's no way some dude can stand 10 feet infront of me while beeing totally invisible. Unless he's wearing the One Ring of course, but that's for another game...

Now I'd have nothing against a REALISTIC form of stealth , ie: you'd have the ability to become invisible while standing in a shadow or something but running around in broad daylight totally invisible is just silly.

You are totally outisde the subject of this thread. there are many other threads that talks about liking or disliking stealth.

This thread here is mostly to talk about the various purpose could have in the game, and how it should be implemented depending of its purpose.

I'm totally within the subject of this thread. You asked what purpose we think stealth should have in your game, I answered :none.

Stealth is just, IMO, a bad concept (at least WoW type stealth). It's totally over the top unrealistic and also impossible to balance as a combat ability.

So ok, to answer your question in a little more thought out way, ok to stealth but only if it isn't used as a combat ability.

Currently playing: Darkfall UW, LoL.
Waiting for: Albion Online.

  Tumblebutz

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 338

3/16/13 7:21:30 PM#28
Originally posted by MarkJacobs

...and people wonder why I want to discuss stealth with our backers, want to try something outside the box, etc. This and all the other threads regarding stealth here, other forums, other games, etc. are proof that my intentions are good, Oh Lord! Please don't let me be misunderstood. :)

Back to eye-charts.

 

 

I don't wonder why, at all!

I think the idea that stealth is a product of old technology is not really accurate.  I can't think of a game (I'm sure there are a few) that doesn't have some form of stealth (or "the inability to detect" someone.)  I only say this to illustrate that it's not an outdated idea any more than having a healer or tank is.  Hell, D&D had stealth in it!  It's just part of the genre, imo.

Let's begin the discussion with the assumption that MJ will incorporate some kind of stealth (be it extremely limited, perma-stealth, or somewhere in between) into the game.

Personally, I would vote YES, you can attack from stealth.  The ensuing question would then be:

Should attacks from stealth include

A) No attacks unique to stealth.  In other words, only attacks that can also be executed when NOT stealthed.

B) Normal attacks offered in (A) but with an added damage bonus if executed from stealth.

C) Special "stealth based" attacks with high damage and/or other bonuses.  Think: Perforate Artery or Backstab.

To this question, I would vote (A) in the hopes that the lack of stealth based damage would be compensated for by providing more strategic abilities, such as the ability to sabotage siege equipment and/or the ability to scout.

Honestly, the more I think about this whole issue, the more complex it seems to become.  Good luck with this, MJ!

Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival

RED IS DEAD!

  BowbowDAoC

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/10
Posts: 482

 
OP  3/16/13 7:27:28 PM#29

It IS very complex !

So we have to really think hard about it, explore all possibilites, prevent everything about it to be OP'ed, while still make it fun, useful,

alot of people like stealth, so its kind of an important issue. I think it has its place in CU too, i could even say, ESPECIALLY in CU.

Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR

  Plastic-Metal

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 423

3/16/13 11:39:14 PM#30

Interesting discussion here.

Like a lot of posters, stealth isn't necessarily a "bad thing" in itself, but the incredible damage dealt immediately coming out of stealth usually combined with some form of stun implemented by most games is the by product in which gives stealth a bad name.  There's nothing worse than being at full life and looking over at the television screen only to glance back and realize you've already died within three seconds from some toon that slips back into the shadows thereafter.

If there is a "stealth" enabled class, it should be primarily utilized for scouting, sabotage, and infiltrating/deception.  First, let's lay down some termnology so everyone knows what I'm talking abou heret:

Scouting:  Allows players to literally scout about undetected, whether visible or slightly "invisible", in order to gain reconnaissance for their realm (or pick out higher win opportunity solo fights).

Sabotage:  Allows players to disrupt supply lines, significantly damage siege engines/doors/walls, and anything in between that has yet to be announced that could fall into this category.

Inflitrating/Deception:  "Stealth" classes bread and butter;  breaking into courtyards of keeps, climbing walls, and magically summoning 'decoys' that gain the attention of guards and players alike.

That being said, and going by Mark's intentions of minimal (polished) classes at launch, the "stealth" class could incorporate both archer and traditional "stealther" playstyles into one class.  However, what you don't want to do is go down the same path RIFT traveled down and made it so easy for one base class to jump between a couple different specs that really didn't resemble their other branches.

I posted in a stealth-related thread a couple weeks ago about my ideas, so I'll summarize them here again:

 

  • Agility, light armor based class
  • Stealth comes from hiding in shadows/near structures, but is not 100% invisible; if you're standing next to it, you can see it - completely invisible during night time day cycles
  • Allow the use of poisons and diseases, or even traps if an archer
  • Increased survivability through the use of damage mitigations, evasion, and summoning decoys.
  • The only class capable of climbing walls into keeps, towers, and other structures
  • Utilizes two primary spec trees:  Close range (dual wield or fist combat) or Ranged (short bow, long bow); both cannot be obtained, but players can dual spec to be an 'average' well rounded recon class.
    • It's likely every class will have multiple spec lines; third could be a combination style class that utilizes more magic and is a light "tank" without stealth, but still capable of climbing walls
  • Introduce Sabotage:  allows the class to go completely invisible, increases movement speed by 100%, lasts 15 seconds.  While sabotage is active, the player may sabotage an enemy's siege equipment or structure's wall/door causing it to temporarily critically fail or cause significant damage.  During this time period, the player cannot attack for 20 seconds.  If sabotage is successful, stealth duration increases for an additional 5 seconds.  Cannot use in combat.  (This allows players to have both stealth, serve a purpose for the realm, additional 'get away' skill, and allow undetected scouting.)
  • Introduce Deception:  allows the class to summon decoys such as carbon copies of the user to attack/confuse enemies, decoys that simulate a "1v1" fight to provoke players to add on the duel, decoy siege engines, or even decoy a multitude of fake defenders to ward off attackers.
  • Reintroduce Safe Fall:  allow the class to take reduced damage from falling higher distances.
  • Absolutely no high damage burst abilities directly out of stealth.
 
This "stealth" class could be far more complex and capable than just traditional stealth..  think outside the box, guys!

My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

  tlear

Novice Member

Joined: 12/15/07
Posts: 143

3/17/13 1:14:23 AM#31
Originally posted by MarkJacobs

...and people wonder why I want to discuss stealth with our backers, want to try something outside the box, etc. This and all the other threads regarding stealth here, other forums, other games, etc. are proof that my intentions are good, Oh Lord! Please don't let me be misunderstood. :)

Back to eye-charts.

 

 

Nuke it from orbit Mark.. it is the only way to be sure

  meddyck

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1108

3/17/13 6:50:24 AM#32
How about making stealthers take extra damage if they are attacked while they are stealthed? Perhaps their normal defense abilities (evade, parry, dodge, block) would also be disabled when stealthed. That would be in keeping with the idea that they are focusing on avoiding detection rather than defending against attacks. It would raise the risk factor for a stealther moving into a crowd of visibles.

Camelot Unchained Founder
DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  MarkJacobs

CEO City State Entertainment

Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 405

3/17/13 10:03:24 AM#33
Originally posted by tlear
Originally posted by MarkJacobs

...and people wonder why I want to discuss stealth with our backers, want to try something outside the box, etc. This and all the other threads regarding stealth here, other forums, other games, etc. are proof that my intentions are good, Oh Lord! Please don't let me be misunderstood. :)

Back to eye-charts.

 

 

Nuke it from orbit Mark.. it is the only way to be sure

LOL!!!!!! Quoting one of my favorite movies of all time = awesome. Thanks!

Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment

  Hokibukisa

Novice Member

Joined: 3/25/06
Posts: 190

3/17/13 7:18:04 PM#34

I think that designing a mechanic with the preconcieved notion that it is implicitly overpowered is a big mistake.

 

SOE prenerfed the living fuck out of Infiltrators and especially their cloak in PS2, and surprise, they're the lowest avg k/d and ratio and score per minute class by a massive margin. The logout->login exploit is used by infiltrators more than anyone else in that game cause they're the most vulnerable class in most situations, and aren't even the best at what they're supposed to good at.

 

Before you even attempt to start designing stealth mechanic you need to clear your mind about your past experiences in games and focus on what tactics and strategy that you want stealth to make possible in a combined arms RvR game.

 

This game will have vast open fields, forests, keeps, towers, bridges, gates, dungeons, patrols, siege engines, wall defenses, killable npcs. I mean thats what I would at least expect there to be in the game. Since there is going to be no PvE, I would expect there to be a LOT more stuff than in DAoC.

I would expect there to be lockboxes inside of keeps where supplies for NPC's and repairs are kept. Keep dungeons where prisoners might be being kept.

 

Due to there being an unknowable amount of cool stuff in an RvR game that stealth can complement, I would in no way design it around what some might think would be overpowered in 1 on 1 or 8 v 8 fight. Nor would I leave it up to a player vote.

 

Make stealth whatever it needs to be in order for the much more important things to be awesome.

  Plastic-Metal

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 423

3/17/13 7:32:04 PM#35
Originally posted by Hokibukisa

This game will have vast open fields, forests, keeps, towers, bridges, gates, dungeons, patrols, siege engines, wall defenses, killable npcs. I mean thats what I would at least expect there to be in the game. Since there is going to be no PvE, I would expect there to be a LOT more stuff than in DAoC.

I would expect there to be lockboxes inside of keeps where supplies for NPC's and repairs are kept. Keep dungeons where prisoners might be being kept.

 Due to there being an unknowable amount of cool stuff in an RvR game that stealth can complement, I would in no way design it around what some might think would be overpowered in 1 on 1 or 8 v 8 fight. Nor would I leave it up to a player vote.

 Make stealth whatever it needs to be in order for the much more important things to be awesome.

 

I agree, Hokibukisa - It might be in Mark's benefit to sit down with the CSE team and discuss what they want to accomplish with stealth from a class perspective and not necessarily as a 'invisible caster killer' class.  There's so many cool things a "stealth" class could do without it having the traditional 'burst dps out of stealth' playstyle.  

It's very much like the idea of "keeps" in pvp games; I'm working on a write up to generate some discussion on that, too.  Which is very much like what you just pointed out.  For years scientists have thought life could only exist if water also existed, but the new train of thought, which was much needed imo, is that just because we're "use to" certain things because that's all we know doesn't mean we can't think outside the box.

My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

  Tumblebutz

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 338

3/17/13 7:45:25 PM#36
Originally posted by Hokibukisa

I think that designing a mechanic with the preconcieved notion that it is implicitly overpowered is a big mistake.

 

SOE prenerfed the living fuck out of Infiltrators and especially their cloak in PS2, and surprise, they're the lowest avg k/d and ratio and score per minute class by a massive margin. The logout->login exploit is used by infiltrators more than anyone else in that game cause they're the most vulnerable class in most situations, and aren't even the best at what they're supposed to good at.

 

Before you even attempt to start designing stealth mechanic you need to clear your mind about your past experiences in games and focus on what tactics and strategy that you want stealth to make possible in a combined arms RvR game.

 

This game will have vast open fields, forests, keeps, towers, bridges, gates, dungeons, patrols, siege engines, wall defenses, killable npcs. I mean thats what I would at least expect there to be in the game. Since there is going to be no PvE, I would expect there to be a LOT more stuff than in DAoC.

I would expect there to be lockboxes inside of keeps where supplies for NPC's and repairs are kept. Keep dungeons where prisoners might be being kept.

 

Due to there being an unknowable amount of cool stuff in an RvR game that stealth can complement, I would in no way design it around what some might think would be overpowered in 1 on 1 or 8 v 8 fight. Nor would I leave it up to a player vote.

 

Make stealth whatever it needs to be in order for the much more important things to be awesome.

A really good point.

Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival

RED IS DEAD!

  SBE1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/05/06
Posts: 338

3/18/13 12:17:11 AM#37

First, in CU you have to remember that there are no levels, so you aren't "ganking" lowbies or anything.  So all that fear of a stealther ganking you is just that, a fear from the past.  A relic of past games that is gone.

Second, stealthers in general are weaker than visible classes (otherwise, everyone would invite stealthers into their groups).  Their advantage is stealth, allowing them to target at the optimal time. 

Thus, a stealther using no tactics whatsoever and just willy-nilly attacks anyone anytime is going to lose the majority of the time, simply because their class is weaker.  A stealther who uses tactics to select the right target and the right time to attack will usually win.   So now you want to nerf tactics?

Finally, on the front of realism.  First, you could argue that they should have to hide behind stuff.  Well, okay, but the graphics required to put tall grass, bushes and all the other things needed to make it realistic would slow down FPS to an insanely low level.  Second, if you didn't have a bunch of this stuff, then you'd make stealth worthless.   So, the compromise is to make stealth a bit unrealistic by allowing them to be invisible, where you assume they are hiding behind stuff that the game just doesn't render.

Or, you could argue that they learn a secret magic of invisibility that most wizards never learn, and that rogues hold this secret tightly and share it only with others in their guild.  

Either way, stealth isn't overpowered if not combined with decent tactics and it's not unrealistic for a fantasy game. It is a game after all, not real life.

  rojo6934

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 4550

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

3/18/13 12:26:23 AM#38

not voting on the poll.

My opinion on the matter? i only use stealth to avoid unnecesary fights, specially in open world pvp (that can be inevitable) to stay hidden from gankers and idiots that wont let me level in peace. Since CU is pvp only i can see how usefull it can be to avoid gankers while im focusing on other stuff outside of pvp or trying to find a fair fight while stealthing looking for the right level dude to attack

"in peace, in sleep under the barren, abandoned soil"

  BowbowDAoC

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/10
Posts: 482

 
OP  3/18/13 6:18:01 AM#39
Originally posted by SBE1

First, in CU you have to remember that there are no levels, so you aren't "ganking" lowbies or anything.  So all that fear of a stealther ganking you is just that, a fear from the past.  A relic of past games that is gone.

Second, stealthers in general are weaker than visible classes (otherwise, everyone would invite stealthers into their groups).  Their advantage is stealth, allowing them to target at the optimal time. 

Thus, a stealther using no tactics whatsoever and just willy-nilly attacks anyone anytime is going to lose the majority of the time, simply because their class is weaker.  A stealther who uses tactics to select the right target and the right time to attack will usually win.   So now you want to nerf tactics?

Finally, on the front of realism.  First, you could argue that they should have to hide behind stuff.  Well, okay, but the graphics required to put tall grass, bushes and all the other things needed to make it realistic would slow down FPS to an insanely low level.  Second, if you didn't have a bunch of this stuff, then you'd make stealth worthless.   So, the compromise is to make stealth a bit unrealistic by allowing them to be invisible, where you assume they are hiding behind stuff that the game just doesn't render.

Or, you could argue that they learn a secret magic of invisibility that most wizards never learn, and that rogues hold this secret tightly and share it only with others in their guild.  

Either way, stealth isn't overpowered if not combined with decent tactics and it's not unrealistic for a fantasy game. It is a game after all, not real life.

I assume you replied to a poster not to the OP, as i simply suggested a series of questions that imo needs to be answered before actually implementeing stealth.

And trust me, i love stealth myself, been a hunter that mainly scouted for years to protect our frontiers in Midgard. So i would be very if stealth was back, and useful, bu as said in the OP, before it is implemented, its role should be defined.

Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR

  BowbowDAoC

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/10
Posts: 482

 
OP  3/19/13 7:22:02 AM#40

So far, we can see that a good majority of the voters (nearly 70% based on 68 voters at this moment) think that stealth should be in game, but with either little or no "ganking" power. That it should be used for strategic purposes, such as sabotage, traps etc. and in some cases, strategic assassinations. i'm glad to see that there is only a minority of people that sees stealth as a ganking power only.

This gives me hope.

 

 

Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR

3 Pages « 1 2 3 » Search