Originally posted by Seitr
I loved DAoC battlegrounds, but not sure CU really needs them without a traditional leveling system.

Non traditional leveling doesn't mean no levels or experience tiers.

if there are no levels the difference between new characters powers/abilities and someone playing for two years is going to have to be close.  Who is gonna come play a game, pvp, that you are licking dirt all the time.

I have to ask, Why? Why would you need bg's when the whole game is about PvP? Why would you want them and what purpose would they serve when you level yourself on PvP?

I could really careless if they are in a game because I don't like them. The only ones that were fun and I did enjoy were the ones in DAoC. They were more like a practice for the big game though instead of just a death match like alot of other games use them.

Well i'm good at that so i'll make another quote from MJ^^

"we want players to get into RvR right from the beginning of their journey in CU. We want to create a system where a high level character is better than he was, better…faster…stronger… than a low level player but it should also not be a system (if we want to have a truly open world) where the high level player sneezes and the low level player is scattered to the four winds. You must be able to have actual RvR in an RvR-focused game and that means that the cavernous gulf of disparity between characters that can be found in other games must not be part of the system here. Again, being a more experienced player will come with tons of perks, benefits, abilities, etc. but it should not be instant death to see somebody a bit more powerful than you coming at you if we want this game to succeed."

(http://citystateentertainment.com/camelotunchained/, top ten questions section)

The most important part here is underlined. There won't be a big gap between the players, so there is simply no need for the bgs. It doesn't mean your character will not improve, but rather than even against a low rank player you'll have to be careful and not spam the hit button. The low rank on his side won't have much chances, but at least he'll have time to enjoy the fight before getting killed. I wouldn't mind losing a fight if it last for at least 5 min and if i know than i can improve my skills as a player to have better chances next time.

On the other hand, it would be nice to have a map rather small where you can go and solo for a short time like 20 min when you don't have the time to go into the real rvr and getting a group. Everybody could get in that map, so it's not really a bg.

Originally posted by Fearum

I have to ask, Why? Why would you need bg's when the whole game is about PvP? Why would you want them and what purpose would they serve when you level yourself on PvP?

I could really careless if they are in a game because I don't like them. The only ones that were fun and I did enjoy were the ones in DAoC. They were more like a practice for the big game though instead of just a death match like alot of other games use them.

Are you implying we should ask day 1 newbies to fight 3+ year veterans with a ton of experience + progression + better items?

There needs to be a way to ease new players into the game and making them fight eachother for a few days is perfect.

DAoC had the PvE leveling grind + battlegrounds as a "tutorial". CU has no PvE at all so battlegrounds are required IMO.

Again yes I would like there to be a DAOC style battleground. Basically clone Thidranki or Molvik and drop it into CU.

There is going to be a form of RvR progression in this game. That means brand new toons will be at a considerable disadvantage for the first week or two.

Not to mention you simply won't know how to play a new toon effectively since you won't have spent time leveling it first. A BG then takes the place of a tutorial zone.

Put a cap of realm rank 3 or the equivalent so players can't stay there forever and reach higher ranks. I don't mind if there is a /rpoff function to prevent a character from progressing so it can stay in the BG forever.

On a more basic level, many players find BGs to be fun. Why not give those players a place in CU they'll find fun? That will keep them playing and subscribing.

 CU has no PvE at all

This part is easily misunderstood.

There will be PvE, but it won't get you any exp, gold nor items. I don't know what role it'll play in the game, maybe some will be needed for crafting material, some will just be easy to kill things to relax and some will be powerful and get involved in the battles if you're not careful, but MJ love dragons and there will probably be at least 3 of them.

As for the training, we already know there will be a safe area, there will be a tutorial there and plenty of time to learn how to use your character by fighting straw mannequin or low level monster.

Of course you won't be able to win a 1 vs 1 fight, but don't forget than the game design wants people to socialize :

"These examples are literally the tip of the iceberg (hmm, iceberg, titanic, MMORPG, bad word association) when it comes to how we are going to encourage players within a realm to work together to accomplish their goals."

(http://citystateentertainment.com/camelotunchained/, Foundational principle 9 section)

So being a noob won't be as much a problem as in other games.

I liked non instances bgs in daoc, but I don't see the point in cu.

in daoc, it was to split up people,by level, and give people,a rvr playground while leveling in a pve world.

in cu the whole world is rvr, and there's no pve leveling, so,I don't think bgs are needed.

the point of cu is a static world.

nowmimwouldnt mind underground non instances rvr dungeons :-)

Battlegrounds, of any kind, SUCK. It is not real pvp. I hate them.

Plenty of games with BGs, if you like them go play one of those.

RvR alone gets boring after a while to me. BGs are a good way to mix it up a little while still doing PvP.

Either way I don't really care. The presence or not of BGs isn't what makes a good or bad game.

Originally posted by akley

Battlegrounds, of any kind, SUCK. It is not real pvp. I hate them.

This sounds like the response of some 8man's that didn't like having their casual RP fodder going and having fun elsewhere.  How is it any less PvP than 50 RvR was?  Your argument holds true for BG's like WoW or Scenarios from WAR etc., but DAoC BG's are very different from those.  It was a scaled down, near identical copy of 50 RvR. 

Originally posted by drakon3

Originally posted by akley

Battlegrounds, of any kind, SUCK. It is not real pvp. I hate them.

This sounds like the response of some 8man's that didn't like having their casual RP fodder going and having fun elsewhere.  How is it any less PvP than 50 RvR was?  Your argument holds true for BG's like WoW or Scenarios from WAR etc., but DAoC BG's are very different from those.  It was a scaled down, near identical copy of 50 RvR. 

BG's are NOT instances

DAoC Battlegrounds were the best, I actually prefered their battlegrounds to 50 RvR. It was just soo hard to get templated and masterlevels to compete in level 50 rvr.

Originally posted by Brohime

DAoC Battlegrounds were the best, I actually prefered their battlegrounds to 50 RvR. It was just soo hard to get templated and masterlevels to compete in level 50 rvr.

 

So is that what unchained is going to be like in RvR? Are people going to have to get stomped for a month or two to compete?

I don't think there should be battlegrounds in CU and I highly doubt there will be. The lack of actual levels, and the "consequence of dying" are two strong indications against the use of BGs.

I like battlegrounds they offered me a change of pace within many games.  I also see them as a good game extender.  After you have played to max level and have a lot of in game money, you need something to spend it on.

Enter the twinks :)  And they need battlegrounds to fight in.

This also helps the crafters and the overall player economy.  When my main toon was leveling I would never waste my money on exotic gear.  The money was too precious.  But later in the game when money was not that much of a factor, gear upgrades become a focus.

Originally posted by akley

Battlegrounds, of any kind, SUCK. It is not real pvp. I hate them.

Plenty of games with BGs, if you like them go play one of those.

Objective-less PvP tends to suck. Dueling in the road...yawn.

This is very much a "your mileage will vary" experience, obviously.

A) Territory control, by definition, includes some strategic objectives, not purely tactical.

B) Open world, usually, just a simplistic "rawr get em guys" zerg v zerg.

C)  "Battlergrounds", as typically instanced in modern games, opposite end of the spectrum, strategic goals and games that end.

Pick your poison and go nuts. :shrug: