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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Do LFG System really ruin the community?

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385 posts found
  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4914

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

3/18/13 8:06:44 PM#321
Originally posted by CalmOceans

they added a lot of quests past lvl 80 that do make it possible to level up partly through quests, but it didn't add any gameplay

I played WoW briefly, you're mostly running around like a fruitcake getting and turning in quests non-stop, it doesn't add gameplay, it just adds more annoyance and micro-management.

 If all you do is quests, then yep I agree that would be totally annoying.  There is more options than though, at least once you hit lvl 10, then 15.

edit - actually according to many people now, solo questing is one of the least efficient ways to level now. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Golelorn

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/03
Posts: 1104

3/18/13 8:11:32 PM#322

No. But not having a system can ruin a game, which in turn means there is no community. 

 

  Cochran1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 460

"Fish can't sit down cause they got no laps!!"

3/18/13 8:19:49 PM#323
Progressive endgame does more damage to a community than a group finder ever would, leaving older openworld zones empty. Which in turn warrants zone revamps, with higher xp and more soloable content in an attempt to fast track people to the new endgame. If you think about it, there would be no need for a group finder if they explored a branching progression instead of constant new endgame and level cap increases.
vizzledrix Xfire Miniprofile
  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4914

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

3/18/13 8:25:31 PM#324
All this talk about eq is making me itch for it again. Think I may go redownload it and start a monk or bard again

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  ClaudeSuamOram

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 134

3/18/13 8:29:15 PM#325

The ONLY thing from EQ that keeps me from playing it again is the God awful combat. I tried re-subbing...but MY GOD...

 

Approach an enemy, hit auto attack...wait to see who lucks out on hit rolls to win. Mind numblingly boring...and newer MMORPG's do it SO much better....I am spoiled by that part now.

 

Other than that though, I haven't found a world to match EQ's (Almost, but not quite), questing system (Epic quests ftw!), and by far  a social aspect, grouping aspect, etc.

  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1934

3/18/13 8:43:04 PM#326

EQ added more and more abilities, I fire no less than 20 alternative abilities on a raid, outside of my normal abilities. I actually miss the stupid simple combat now.

The other side of the spectrum is something like Vindictus, which has a lot of involved combat, but like I said once, those type of action games are basically console games.

Monster hunter frontier Online is similar, it has a lot of involved combat, but it doesn't have the group play EQ has.

The more action based your combat is, the faster it is and the move involed it is, the less time you have for strategy, community and downtime.

You pay a big price of action packed combat.

 

  ClaudeSuamOram

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 134

3/18/13 8:52:58 PM#327
Originally posted by CalmOceans

EQ added more and more abilities, I fire no less than 20 alternative abilities on a raid, outside of my normal abilities. I actually miss the stupid simple combat now.

The other side of the spectrum is something like Vindictus, which has a lot of involved combat, but like I said once, those type of action games are basically console games.

Monster hunter frontier Online is similar, it has a lot of involved combat, but it doesn't have the group play EQ has.

The more action based your combat is, the faster it is and the move involed it is, the less time you have for strategy, community and downtime.

You pay a big price of action packed combat.

 

Eh. Not necessarily. I played Allods Online for a year. Yes...a LOT like WoW....but it had fast paced combat...but it allowed for downtime as well to sit and chat, replenish HP's, etc. There are games with fast combat that don't kill all the other features...just not many of them.

  Phantasmagoria

Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/12
Posts: 65

3/18/13 9:27:22 PM#328
I'm not sure if i understand the topic correctly but, Dragon NEst also has this system. It doesn't really ruin the community. I think it actually improves it because you get to group with other people other than ung guild mates or you normal party.
  MrSchnuffi

Novice Member

Joined: 11/11/12
Posts: 25

3/18/13 9:37:17 PM#329

I haven't read all pages so maybe someone made my point allready.

I don't think that a Lfg tool automatically kills communities, I think the main problem is that most mmos don't require organization and teamplay from the players. For example last fall I resubed WoW for month and used the Lfg too, and it was of course just talkfree dungeon farming because the dungeons are so easy that no organization and teamplay is required. There is no reason to meet in teamspeak to figure out who is doing what. And I hold every bet giving the WoW community the possibility to choose if they want run dungeons with 4 bots instead of other players most people would choose bots. Basically in a game like WoW it makes no difference players who get grouped by a Llfg tool see each other as a necessary "evil". You need them somehow but you don't care at all with whom you are playing.

On the other hand in AoC people meet in teamspeak for every dungeon because it makes assigning tasks and teamplay (who stuns, who burst heals who tanks which mob who uses skill xy to debuff the boss etc.) much easier. Of course a group of veterans could do this without but everybody is used to it. It is the most normal thing if you join a group someone post teamspeak info and you join. And that is exactely where creating a community starts some reason to get together with each other and in the time between to dungeons (yes in AoC people usually group for more than one^^) you share server gossip, tipps, jokes, reminisces about the good old times and so on.

And of course when people are used to communicate on the global chat there is always some trolling, insulting and trash talking too but that belongs to a mmo chat just as raid and group organization, trading, asking  and the latest soccer results.

 

That's all just my opinion but before I have to get used to Lfg-tools and autogrouping for public quest I would rather quit mmos.

  KaosProphet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 384

3/18/13 10:37:02 PM#330
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by CalmOceans


 Once again, I played EQ for 4 years.  And yes less options.  WoW has far more options of play than EQ did. 

I don't believe you, you are so uninformed about the game that I think you never played it.

EQ has 1500 zones, 90,000 items, 3000 items that were never discovered, 21,000 spells, 19 expansions.

It's by far the MMO with the biggest amount of content.

For you to say it doesn't have many options is just troll behavior, just stop, the more you talk about EQ the more clear it becomes you never played it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vocDonG1Rkw

 

 I didn't say it doesn't have a lot of zones, items, or spells.

I said it has less options for leveling.  You are doing the same thing in each zone, that isn't 1500 options for leveling.  It's one option in 1500 areas.

WoW has more options for leveling.  Again, in EQ by level 20 starting in Gfay you would have been just leaving cb.  That is 2 zones, 3-4 variety of 3-4 mobs.  Thats it.  In WoW by lvl 20 you have seen 4 zones, 2 bg, 2, dungeons and 50-100 different mobs.

That's still just one option.  You're seeing more different things on that one option, but it's still a themepark railroad.

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4914

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

3/19/13 12:08:26 AM#331
Originally posted by KaosProphet
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by CalmOceans


 Once again, I played EQ for 4 years.  And yes less options.  WoW has far more options of play than EQ did. 

I don't believe you, you are so uninformed about the game that I think you never played it.

EQ has 1500 zones, 90,000 items, 3000 items that were never discovered, 21,000 spells, 19 expansions.

It's by far the MMO with the biggest amount of content.

For you to say it doesn't have many options is just troll behavior, just stop, the more you talk about EQ the more clear it becomes you never played it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vocDonG1Rkw

 

 I didn't say it doesn't have a lot of zones, items, or spells.

I said it has less options for leveling.  You are doing the same thing in each zone, that isn't 1500 options for leveling.  It's one option in 1500 areas.

WoW has more options for leveling.  Again, in EQ by level 20 starting in Gfay you would have been just leaving cb.  That is 2 zones, 3-4 variety of 3-4 mobs.  Thats it.  In WoW by lvl 20 you have seen 4 zones, 2 bg, 2, dungeons and 50-100 different mobs.

That's still just one option.  You're seeing more different things on that one option, but it's still a themepark railroad.

 Um.. Questing, dungeons, bgs, mob grinding, pvp, gathering/exploring is 6 different ways of leveling.  Not one.  Each one of those can and people have gotten to max level on.

edit - so EQ is downloading again, anyone want to start a new character :)

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Malkos

Novice Member

Joined: 5/22/07
Posts: 14

3/19/13 12:30:27 AM#332

Honestly. I don't think a LFG system hurts the community. It stream lines the process and keeps people from having to stand around and do an extra 20 min of travel to get to the dungeon.

If you're complaining that people are totally silent during runs and it's a 20 min zerg fest, you can blame how instances are created/their difficulty for that and not a system that lets you find groups.

What I DO think hurt the community more than anything else was the cross server  LFG tool. While it does make finding groups quicker it leads to the problem of pretty much never seeing that person again. So the fact that you'll almost never see someone more than once leads to rampant ass hat-ery. Ninjaing was no longer an issue because getting "black listed" didnt mean anything because it wasn't a server community. Nor was there any reason to form ties with people because of the ease of access and limited interaction you had with said people outside of an instance.

  GreenHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 1342

3/19/13 12:52:28 AM#333
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

 Um.. Questing, dungeons, bgs, mob grinding, pvp, gathering/exploring is 6 different ways of leveling.  Not one.  Each one of those can and people have gotten to max level on.

No matter how correct you are a lot of these people will never admit it. To admit that WoW does anything better than the dinosaurs of the past is blasphemy. They are so close minded and blinded by their desire for a new old school game they will say anything to try and defend their position.

I would love to hear someone pitch a line for an old school game to an investor. Why would anyone invest in a game style that has a track record of mediocrity and failure? How do you even try to justify it? WoW can release a new stupid $10 pet in their store and make more money off of that pet than the old school game would make in a year of subs. That pet would have almost no overhead to cover. Would making a WoW clone be definite money maker? No. It would however be a much safer bet than an old school chat room game.

The logic in all of this isn't very hard to see. Games are made to make money. You have a far better chance of making that money by making a game that appeals to the masses. Old school MMO's do NOT appeal to the masses. It doesn't matter how hard you try to flame and insult WoW players. They speak with their wallets as they have been doing for over 8 years now.  If you can not deal with the fact that this industry has moved on far past it's humble beginings you are blind. Things are not going to change back to the way they were. That era of gaming is over.

  daltanious

Elite Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1938

3/19/13 4:40:57 AM#334

As I already said ... for sure have influenced NEED for chat to get group. But the real question is "Do I miss lfg manually for group via chat for 10 hours to be able to play 1 hour?"? Nope, do not miss at all. Prefer so called "community" suffer so I can play 10 hours and lfg-ing for 1 hour then viceversa.

Do people in general miss horses for transportation when they could form special bond with animal? Maybe. But would any1 give up car? I'm sure not. :-)

  Muke

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1637

3/19/13 4:44:47 AM#335

it ruins the community for the people that want a mmo online 'world'.
it just changes everything in a instance lobby, queue up, enter, leave and repeat.

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  Candomble

Novice Member

Joined: 7/15/11
Posts: 167

3/19/13 4:52:06 AM#336

Players ruin the community, not the tools.

That said, I can't get where it is fun to spam a chat or have to be constantly reading it, slowly forming a group, keep some meanless conversation with strangers while I wait just to kill time, and sometimes after a couple of hours I have a group and not much time to do the content (you know, I work and have a family and all that crazy stuff many people have in life). I don't want or need forced socialization and timesinks. 

  simmihi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/10
Posts: 527

3/19/13 5:11:52 AM#337
Originally posted by GreenHell
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

 Um.. Questing, dungeons, bgs, mob grinding, pvp, gathering/exploring is 6 different ways of leveling.  Not one.  Each one of those can and people have gotten to max level on.

No matter how correct you are a lot of these people will never admit it. To admit that WoW does anything better than the dinosaurs of the past is blasphemy. They are so close minded and blinded by their desire for a new old school game they will say anything to try and defend their position.

I would love to hear someone pitch a line for an old school game to an investor. Why would anyone invest in a game style that has a track record of mediocrity and failure? How do you even try to justify it? WoW can release a new stupid $10 pet in their store and make more money off of that pet than the old school game would make in a year of subs. That pet would have almost no overhead to cover. Would making a WoW clone be definite money maker? No. It would however be a much safer bet than an old school chat room game.

The logic in all of this isn't very hard to see. Games are made to make money. You have a far better chance of making that money by making a game that appeals to the masses. Old school MMO's do NOT appeal to the masses. It doesn't matter how hard you try to flame and insult WoW players. They speak with their wallets as they have been doing for over 8 years now.  If you can not deal with the fact that this industry has moved on far past it's humble beginings you are blind. Things are not going to change back to the way they were. That era of gaming is over.

It's so obvious that you should not even have to post your otherwise great post. The "dinosaurs of the past" had no competition at the time. Either you did it their way, or you did not do it at all. When WoW and others launched, 90% of the people moved there. It's obvious what people wanted. It's obvious what people want now. No big name game following the "old school" rules launched in the last... what? 7-8 years?

 

Is there a market for "the old school way"? Yes, there still is, but it's not that "massive" to make it worth it for a serious name in the industry. For the nostalgic ones, looks like the choice will be, for a while, still the "old school dinosaurs" and maybe some indie companies.

 

Do I miss the old school thing? Yes, i miss some aspects of it. My first game was Anarchy Online, and it took me 1 year and a half to get my character to max level, with everything i've ever wanted in terms of equipment (that was playing a few hours per day). There are some things which I'm nostalgic about, and I still have hope that there will be a "new WoW revolution", which would combine some of the "old school goodies" with what WoW brought. But taking away the LFD tool just to make things tedious is not what i'm expecting. Like some former poster perfectly pointed, I don't see many people riding horses on the roads of my city.

  zephyrs

Novice Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 25

3/19/13 5:20:39 AM#338

I don't care for queues. It mechanizes the process of finding a group, and for me personally, makes it easier to avoid interacting with group mates (advising/coordinating) while we're doing our thing.

 

I prefer LFG systems that basically just flag you as being interested in a certain event, and from that point you have to message people also flagged as available for that event in an effort to get a group going. To me, this sort of system promotes interaction and makes for better groups. 

  xeniar

Novice Member

Joined: 11/09/06
Posts: 817

3/19/13 5:27:40 AM#339
Originally posted by zephyrs

I don't care for queues. It mechanizes the process of finding a group, and for me personally, makes it easier to avoid interacting with group mates (advising/coordinating) while we're doing our thing.

 

I prefer LFG systems that basically just flag you as being interested in a certain event, and from that point you have to message people also flagged as available for that event in an effort to get a group going. To me, this sort of system promotes interaction and makes for better groups. 

This is my thinking asswell. Some games have this implemented, i think WoW did asswell at some point. But they are never promoted ingame or not implemented correctly thus not having it work well. 

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

3/19/13 5:36:16 AM#340
Originally posted by daltanious

 "Do I miss lfg manually for group via chat for 10 hours to be able to play 1 hour?"?

False choice.

DF wins, by default, vs. Blizzard's previous attempts at LFG systems, it is true. But every one of Blizzard's previous attempts (original LFG chat channel, Metting Stones, etc) at a LFG system suuuuuuuuccckkkked.

But "via chat for 10 hours" existed  only during the periods of Blizzard's biggest failures. Better LFG systems had been up and running in competing titles, already, for years. Several of them had quite elegant interfaces that coulld quickly find you groups without "spamming chat" at all.

Bliz was wedded to their 'teleport me directly there" idea, and unwilling to completely give up on Meeting Stones. Took them six years of tinkering, several intermittent failures between, but they did finally produce the DF.

Hobson's Choice, "the best option blizzard's ever offered", huzzah. Not the best answer that could have been.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

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