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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Dedicated Buffing Classes

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83 posts found
  KazoWAR

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/13
Posts: 4

 
OP  3/13/13 3:38:11 PM#1
What are your thoughts on dedicated buffing classes. Do you like the idea of a few classes/specs having all the buffs, or do you like the idea of all classes having 1 buff to contribute to the group? If you like dedicated buffing classes what are your thoughts on buff bots? Would you hope that CSE would implement some kinda of anti-buffbot mechanic?
  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2501

3/13/13 3:47:24 PM#2
Originally posted by KazoWAR
What are your thoughts on dedicated buffing classes. Do you like the idea of a few classes/specs having all the buffs, or do you like the idea of all classes having 1 buff to contribute to the group? If you like dedicated buffing classes what are your thoughts on buff bots? Would you hope that CSE would implement some kinda of anti-buffbot mechanic?

 So long as this class doesn't get hindered in any sort of progression because they're purely for buffing I don't see why it wouldn't be a bad idea. I always like playing a Bard, Druid, or etc. type class that revolves around buffing.

Botting is a grey area to me. In some games where the grind is so much they actually have them implemented. However, in games like WoW for example they're completely unneccessary and typically destroy the game. There will never be a way to 100% kill off bots unless the developers actually have in-game GM's moderating the worlds and manually deleting them. However, many developers are no longer doing that. I would rather not see a pop up screen every 30 minutes to 1 hour telling me to enter a code just to confirm that I'm not a bot.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  PerfArt

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 863

3/13/13 3:49:32 PM#3
I think the DAoC model was good in regard to the spread if buffs between multiple classes. The mechanics were wonky and allowed for buffbots, which sucked.

However, I like the idea of support classes having the best buffs and hybrids having situationally-useful buffs.

In the sense of defining realm strengths, I think that defining where the buffs are coming from is important. The distribution of buffability (yeah I made up a word) could help to define the flavor of a realm and dictate, in even a small fashion, how a realm set up it's offenses and defenses.

So in short, I think that buffs should have primary and secondary sources (or even tertiary) that are available based upon the "flavor" of the realm the buffer is from.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt

  sweetdigs

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/11/03
Posts: 199

3/13/13 3:51:24 PM#4

I'm fine with several classes having a variety of buffs.  Don't think you want to encourage buffbots, but I guess it's good from a fiscal perspective because more people are incentivized to multi-account. 

I'll probably multi anyway so I can have dedicated crafters and PVP'ers.  Assuming, of course, that there's no rule against it (and i doubt there will be).  I run 3 accounts in Eve right now, so I'm used to it.

  Trav24

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/05
Posts: 6

Either love it or leave it alone..

3/13/13 3:54:51 PM#5

On Final Fantasy 11 the bard was a great buff class but also have to be very active to be a decent bard. So im all for buff classes as long as it's done right

 

  PerfArt

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 863

3/13/13 3:58:41 PM#6
Buffbots are easily solved by proximity-based buffs.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt

  morfidon

Novice Member

Joined: 2/19/13
Posts: 245

3/13/13 4:02:09 PM#7
Buffs could work like on classic server for example Lamorak.
  meddyck

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1130

3/13/13 4:03:07 PM#8

I'm not a fan of stat buffs. If the game is balanced around everybody having +155 strength from buffs, then just give everybody +155 strength and dispense with the whole need to buff at all. Having played countless hours on clerics, druids, and healers in DAOC, there wasn't anything fun or interesting about buffing, rebuffing, or even shearing.

I don't even need to mention how bad it is when buffing classes can be used as bots.

If the main healing class has buffs, then everybody is going to expect healers to spec for buffs and heals and will scorn you if you spec for damage or CC or even for the best healing at the expense of buffing.

For all these reasons, the only kind of buffs I'd like to see in CU are stuff like DAOC's healer's celerity: short duration group buffs where the player has to pick the right time to use them rather than them always being on. And if you have spells like that, don't put them on the main healers.

Camelot Unchained Founder
DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  OgreRaper

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/11
Posts: 381

3/13/13 4:20:06 PM#9

I think a buffing class would be cool...

IF it's designed to be a very active class. Meaning you can't just buff people then go AFK.

  Odaman

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/13
Posts: 195

3/13/13 4:46:49 PM#10
I'd rather see a heavy debuffer than a buffer. At least when it comes to generic stat buffs.
  Stiler

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 592

3/13/13 5:03:19 PM#11

I loath buff classes, especially if the buffs are so high that they are seen as a requirment to do any kind of pvp. This leads to "buffbots " and things, where people have two accounts iwth one for buffing and nothing more.

 

 

  Tierless

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2097

joie de vivre

3/13/13 9:23:35 PM#12

I like social buffers like dancers in swg but steps need to be taken to avoid buffbotting.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  Tumblebutz

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 338

3/13/13 9:32:59 PM#13

Buffs:

-must have a range on them.  If you leave the range, you drop the buff.

-must be given by a group member.  If you leave the group, you drop the buff.

-must not provide an insurmountable advantage for those who have them versus those who don't.

-must not be available via any other means like pots or charges.

Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival

RED IS DEAD!

  BowbowDAoC

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/10
Posts: 482

3/13/13 9:33:44 PM#14

Buffs are awesome in PvE games, but i dont really see the point of having buffs in a RvR only mmo, it would bring up to the same stats, just higher.

Except maybe like celerity and endurance, and maybe HPwise.

(and for endurance and celerity, give either both possible, or none, otherwise is favorising either melee classes or caster classes).

 

Edit : on top of that, it would make things easier to make sure each classes are balanced (they re not looking for perfect balance, but still, having everyone with "pure stats" would make this even easier )

 

Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR

  Kaneth

Elite Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1549

3/14/13 12:45:17 AM#15

I would much rather have a modified version of buffs, rather than the DAoC approach. The biggest issue with buffs, is that they become a requirement if they are too good. I much prefer shorter duration buffs that need to be activated with some intelligence in mind to be effective.

Bard song twisting in DAoC would be a fairly ok example with what I am talking about. A skilled Bard was able to song twist the speed buff and endurance buff so that we were able to sprint for some distance before losing all of our stamina. This was great for evading enemies, or running down slower moving groups.

GW2's boon system is another good example too. Knowing your combo fields in GW2 and when to use them can make or break a fight. Lining up burst damage, or even lining up a string of boons to survive.

As far as buffbots go. They ruin pvp balance if the buffs are required to compete. DAoC had this issue when I played.

  Plastic-Metal

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 423

3/14/13 12:51:30 AM#16

I am completely indifferent when it comes to a buffing class.  If they become "required" to be competitive, I'll simply buy another account for myself and use it for my pick up/guild group.

They were completely unfair to those that didn't have it in DAoC, though.

My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

  Kryptonite_Hilo

Novice Member

Joined: 2/15/13
Posts: 48

3/14/13 1:02:56 AM#17

I love buffs and buffbots. I never had one, but I never understood why people were against them. Never saw buffs as a problem unless you were trying to be a solo/stealther and you got mad because the other guy had a bot. That's too bad. If you were grouped then you better have a class that could buff and heal because you knew damn well the other group would have it. No different than the solo peeps that were mad. You either had it or you didn't the same as you either had a quality template or you didn't. I was a stealther without a buffbot. I died a lot... so I made a visible class and grouped and thrived.

 

Suck it up. Buffs contribute hugely to a game. If you want everyone on the same playing field without working for it then homogenize everything. 

  Stiler

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 592

3/14/13 1:20:28 AM#18
Originally posted by Kryptonite_Hilo

I love buffs and buffbots. I never had one, but I never understood why people were against them. Never saw buffs as a problem unless you were trying to be a solo/stealther and you got mad because the other guy had a bot. That's too bad. If you were grouped then you better have a class that could buff and heal because you knew damn well the other group would have it. No different than the solo peeps that were mad. You either had it or you didn't the same as you either had a quality template or you didn't. I was a stealther without a buffbot. I died a lot... so I made a visible class and grouped and thrived.

 

Suck it up. Buffs contribute hugely to a game. If you want everyone on the same playing field without working for it then homogenize everything. 

You can't understand why people hated REQUIRNG a "buff" in a game to simply be viable to fight vs other people who most likely had the buff?

Tehy add nothing to the game but TIME WASTERS, having to find someone to buff you so you can go out and fight on a more even ground vs other people who have said buff.

Then, the entire point of buffs is defeated, because EVERYONE has thema nd thus it cancels each other out many times, so the entire concept of it is lost.

 

Buffs shouldn't be a crutch, they shouldn't be something that makes players a lot better/op, and they shouldn't be something people want to "bot" with.

 

  Tumblebutz

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 338

3/14/13 11:23:13 AM#19
Originally posted by Plastic-Metal

I am completely indifferent when it comes to a buffing class.  If they become "required" to be competitive, I'll simply buy another account for myself and use it for my pick up/guild group.

They were completely unfair to those that didn't have it in DAoC, though.

If the buff system even creates an OPTION to do this, then the system is broken... horribly broken.  Having the need for a separate account just for buffs is fucking asinine and will break the game.

For those who don't see a problem with buff-bots, let me briefly explain: it is a unanimously unfair advantage to those players with two computers, the funds for two accounts and/or a connection which will support running two accounts simultaneously.  In short, it provides an advantage obtained OUTSIDE the realm of play.  In a PvP game, this is an absolute deal-breaker.  Think "pay-to-win."

This is the single part of the game design which will prevent me from playing or funding KS. 

I sincerely doubt MJ would endorse a system that supports buff-botting.  Perhaps MJ will comment on this...

 

EDIT: spelling

Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival

RED IS DEAD!

  MarkJacobs

CEO City State Entertainment

Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 405

3/14/13 11:43:26 AM#20
Originally posted by Tumblebutz
Originally posted by Plastic-Metal

I am completely indifferent when it comes to a buffing class.  If they become "required" to be competitive, I'll simply buy another account for myself and use it for my pick up/guild group.

They were completely unfair to those that didn't have it in DAoC, though.

If the buff system even creates an OPTION to do this, then the system is broken... horribly broken.  Having the need for a separate account just for buffs is fucking asinine and will break the game.

For those who don't see a problem with buff-bots, let me briefly explain: it is a unanimously unfair advantage to those players with two computers, the funds for two accounts and/or a connection which will support running two accounts simultaneously.  In short, it provides an advantage obtained OUTSIDE the realm of play.  In a PvP game, this is an absolute deal-breaker.  Think "pay-to-win."

This is the single part of the game design which will prevent me from playing or funding KS. 

I sincerely doubt MJ would endorse a system that supports buff-botting.  Perhaps MJ will comment on this...

 

EDIT: spelling

Doing battle with a bit of a headache right now (working on this eyechart of Digitial Reward Tiers from home doesn't help) but my thoughts here are:


1) We will be actively looking to discourage buff-botting through the game's design. Now, there is no way to prevent someone from having two accounts on a credit card without screwing over families, friends, guilds, etc. but we're going into this saying that our buff/heal system will not favor "buffbot parking" inside a structure, outside of combat range, etc.

2) In CU, I want pure healers to play an important role in the game. Back at Mythic I had numerous discussions about the role of healers in future games and while I think self-heals are great for quick PvE-based games, in a game like CU, we want to encourage healers to play that role.

3) In terms of other support classes, nothing has been decided yet other than I do want to see at least one other support class in the game at launch. I also personally favor a debuff based class rather than a buff based class at launch due to the concern about always having to get buffed up before engaging in battle. Plus, a debuff based class requires active participation in RvR battles (and skill if the system is designed properly) whereas a buff based class *can* sit in one safe/safer area and just keep buffing people. Also, I want to cut down the number of buffs that are in this game, especially at launch.  I do like movement speed buffs though. :)  Again, nothing has been decided yet regarding this part of the discussion.

Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment

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