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195 posts found
  sapphen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

3/13/13 9:08:13 AM#141
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Ok, lets start there. Your idea means the devs need to make a rule set that ripps out NPC. Where do you sell your vendor trash? Cant be a drakelf in a highelf land and have a highelf vendor there. So now the devs need to add generic vendors. This is taking their time to make a new game. To reword the world they made. Got another suggestion on how you can go anywhere with the current game and not make the devs redo the world?

You wouldn't get loot while in the Explorer version, if you want to sell items then you can switch to the official game.  This is just a playground for players to run around in, explore and world PvP.

I think everyone should be bumped up to peak level (like in Cyrodiil) and in the future, if it becomes popular, then they could add world-mini-bosses, wPVP arenas, or other things to do.

  Nanfoodle

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3508

3/13/13 9:08:58 AM#142
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Grunch

Omg Sapphen that is by far one of the most horrible ideas for an mmo ever. I almost forgot about it until you reposted this steamy pile of an idea that is your idea.

P.S. that is seriously one bad idea.. unless you hate video games and making money.

The only real thing I think they can do at this point would be to add 2 more servers to allow people to make characters of each faction per server. I honestly think they are going for a "realm pride" thing by having 1 server.

How is it a bad idea?  Even DAoC done something similar by having servers with different rulesets.  This is not my first choice but it is the easiest way to add an alternate ruleset without a lot of work.  It would allow players to explore and world PvP.

"Add 2 more servers to allow people to make characters of each faction..."  you have no idea how this game works do you?

 

Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by sapphen

No it's not.  It was to make a server with a different ruleset; no NPCs, just players and they could flag for FFA PvP, Faction-based PvP or stay non-combat.   You could switch between the rulesets on a persistent character, if you needed to talk to a NPC or vendor items then you would switch to the offical game.  There would be no need to create more servers, this would be for TES explorers and world PvP.

Did you even read the idea or are you here just to hate on me?

No, we read your idea. It was dismissed because it breaks one of the cardinal rules of game design. Your mechanics should all play towards your games overall premise. Besides that, as much as you choose not to accept its a shit ton of work for very little payoff.

You and noodle read it together?

Many people goofed off in TES games and I think this server could be for that.  It's a pseudo sandbox, an open world playground populated by players.  If you want to play towards the games overall premise then you should play on the official server.

We don't know how much work it will be but it's much less work than some other suggestions.  At least it would give explorers and world PvP fans what they want without effecting the official game.  This isn't my first choice but it is a quick fix.

Your idea is not a rule set when the devs need to start reworking the game. A rule set is a simple set of rules that change how player and sometimes NPC interact with eachother. Like FFA PvP. Your idea is nothing like a rule set. You have taken no time to think about what it would take in dev time to do. Remove all faction NPC woot fixed. No!

  Nanfoodle

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3508

3/13/13 9:12:25 AM#143
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Ok, lets start there. Your idea means the devs need to make a rule set that ripps out NPC. Where do you sell your vendor trash? Cant be a drakelf in a highelf land and have a highelf vendor there. So now the devs need to add generic vendors. This is taking their time to make a new game. To reword the world they made. Got another suggestion on how you can go anywhere with the current game and not make the devs redo the world?

You wouldn't get loot while in the Explorer version, if you want to sell items then you can switch to the official game.  This is just a playground for players to run around in, explore and world PvP.

I think everyone should be bumped up to peak level (like in Cyrodiil) and in the future, if it becomes popular, then they could add world-mini-bosses, wPVP arenas, or other things to do.

Your idea gets every worse, no loot? lol I ask again, can you make suggestions that work in the corrent model/game? Ideas the devs may really listen to?

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/13/13 9:13:49 AM#144
You guys seriously sound like those complaining before WoW was released because you could only control your own guy, even as a pet class. Get over it, the game is not playing to the strengths you want it to, and its not likely ever really going to since its COUNTER the rest of the design of the game. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend? Creating a new ruleset server is not anywhere close to a "quick fix". They require a TON to maintain and opperate. For every additional ruleset they support it means making an entirely new patch. its not as simple as just cutting and pasting stuff. Far too many assets are tied into other parts of the game.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  sapphen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

3/13/13 9:15:55 AM#145
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Your idea is not a rule set when the devs need to start reworking the game. A rule set is a simple set of rules that change how player and sometimes NPC interact with eachother. Like FFA PvP. Your idea is nothing like a rule set. You have taken no time to think about what it would take in dev time to do. Remove all faction NPC woot fixed. No!

It's not really a ruleset, it's a lot easier to impliment than a ruleset.  I would prefer they take the time and add a co-op server without faction locks (like in DAoC) but that would take a lot more time.  In my idea they would remove ALL NPCs, not just faction NPCs and make a flagging system so players can choose FFA PvP, Faction-based PvP and non-combat.

There wouldn't be a lot to do except explore by yourself (and with friends) or organize a guild/group battle.  GW2 did something similar with their sPvP system with Heart of the Mists.  Player could switch between the official game and HotM, I'm just suggesting an explorer version they could switch to.

  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5557

3/13/13 9:16:39 AM#146

At this point I don't think anyone wants to change the game (Edit: I should say: expect the game to be changed). I for one was just expressing my displeasure with a few of their design decisions as an Elder Scrolls fan. And there are many others that feel the same way.

 

If you think that the devs of ESO are going to read this thread and go, "AHA!" then you are delusional. There is a lot of dissapointment out there and the green text in this thread certainly isn't going to convince anybody that feels that way otherwise.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  sapphen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

3/13/13 9:17:04 AM#147
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Ok, lets start there. Your idea means the devs need to make a rule set that ripps out NPC. Where do you sell your vendor trash? Cant be a drakelf in a highelf land and have a highelf vendor there. So now the devs need to add generic vendors. This is taking their time to make a new game. To reword the world they made. Got another suggestion on how you can go anywhere with the current game and not make the devs redo the world?

You wouldn't get loot while in the Explorer version, if you want to sell items then you can switch to the official game.  This is just a playground for players to run around in, explore and world PvP.

I think everyone should be bumped up to peak level (like in Cyrodiil) and in the future, if it becomes popular, then they could add world-mini-bosses, wPVP arenas, or other things to do.

Your idea gets every worse, no loot? lol I ask again, can you make suggestions that work in the corrent model/game? Ideas the devs may really listen to?

The only reward for playing this version is world PvP or exploration (maybe achievements).  If you want loot then you should play the official game.  Players should be encouraged to play the official game, hence no loot.  This is a playground, not a way to progress.

  Nanfoodle

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3508

3/13/13 9:23:33 AM#148
Originally posted by colddog04

At this point I don't think anyone wants to change the game (Edit: I should say: expect the game to be changed). I for one was just expressing my displeasure with a few of their design decisions as an Elder Scrolls fan. And there are many others that feel the same way.

 

If you think that the devs of ESO are going to read this thread and go, "AHA!" then you are delusional. There is a lot of dissapointment out there and the green text in this thread certainly isn't convincing anybody that feels that way otherwise.

My main point as of now is this. We cant change the core game as thats a butt load of time and money. As a TES fan how can we change the game without asking the devs to go back to ground zero or start ripping appart the world to try and give this small set of fans what they want? I have made a few but I dont see the haters saying anything positive along that lines. As you said, there is no way the game will be reworked.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/13/13 9:30:35 AM#149
Originally posted by sapphen

The only reward for playing this version is world PvP or exploration (maybe achievements).  If you want loot then you should play the official game.  Players should be encouraged to play the official game, hence no loot.  This is a playground, not a way to progress.

Except that you are now completely ignoring the part about how that is poor game design.

 

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  sapphen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

3/13/13 9:34:25 AM#150
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by sapphen

The only reward for playing this version is world PvP or exploration (maybe achievements).  If you want loot then you should play the official game.  Players should be encouraged to play the official game, hence no loot.  This is a playground, not a way to progress.

Except that you are now completely ignoring the part about how that is poor game design.

How is it poor game design?  It's an alternative way to play and shouldn't be encouraged (or discouraged for that matter).  Rewards and carrots should remain in the official game.  If people want to just explore or particiapte in world PvP then they could switch to this version and do so.  There is no design to it, players find stuff to do or play the official game.

  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5557

3/13/13 9:35:35 AM#151
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by colddog04

At this point I don't think anyone wants to change the game (Edit: I should say: expect the game to be changed). I for one was just expressing my displeasure with a few of their design decisions as an Elder Scrolls fan. And there are many others that feel the same way.

 

If you think that the devs of ESO are going to read this thread and go, "AHA!" then you are delusional. There is a lot of dissapointment out there and the green text in this thread certainly isn't convincing anybody that feels that way otherwise.

My main point as of now is this. We cant change the core game as thats a butt load of time and money. As a TES fan how can we change the game without asking the devs to go back to ground zero or start ripping appart the world to try and give this small set of fans what they want? I have made a few but I dont see the haters saying anything positive along that lines. As you said, there is no way the game will be reworked.

Right, we can't change major systems now. That is what is so dissapointing.

 

And I don't think the set of fans that would prefer a more open ended experience is small, but neither of us have anything to proove that with so the point is moot.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Nanfoodle

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3508

3/13/13 9:49:33 AM#152
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by sapphen

The only reward for playing this version is world PvP or exploration (maybe achievements).  If you want loot then you should play the official game.  Players should be encouraged to play the official game, hence no loot.  This is a playground, not a way to progress.

Except that you are now completely ignoring the part about how that is poor game design.

How is it poor game design?  It's an alternative way to play and shouldn't be encouraged (or discouraged for that matter).  Rewards and carrots should remain in the official game.  If people want to just explore or particiapte in world PvP then they could switch to this version and do so.  There is no design to it, players find stuff to do or play the official game.

So your idea is no longer themepark, its not sandbox because your not earning, building or creating anything, so now you have what? The biggest open world PvP map? With a small number of players wandering around wondering where everyone is so they can have some fun. The PvP would be spread so thin the only thing to do in your idea of a game would be wattered down and empty. To make a massive PvP world to work you need the bulk of the population to drive it like Archeage is doing. Your idea of a game set inside another game thats the focus would be a husk at best.

  sapphen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

3/13/13 9:59:53 AM#153
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by sapphen

The only reward for playing this version is world PvP or exploration (maybe achievements).  If you want loot then you should play the official game.  Players should be encouraged to play the official game, hence no loot.  This is a playground, not a way to progress.

Except that you are now completely ignoring the part about how that is poor game design.

How is it poor game design?  It's an alternative way to play and shouldn't be encouraged (or discouraged for that matter).  Rewards and carrots should remain in the official game.  If people want to just explore or particiapte in world PvP then they could switch to this version and do so.  There is no design to it, players find stuff to do or play the official game.

So your idea is no longer themepark, its not sandbox because your not earning, building or creating anything, so now you have what? The biggest open world PvP map? With a small number of players wandering around wondering where everyone is so they can have some fun. The PvP would be spread so thin the only thing to do in your idea of a game would be wattered down and empty. To make a massive PvP world to work you need the bulk of the population to drive it like Archeage is doing. Your idea of a game set inside another game thats the focus would be a husk at best.

Exactly, it's basically the biggest open world PvP map!  There may or may not be a lot of people there but players can organize a wPvP battle between guilds/groups in any city or landscape they want.  It would be a place to duel, run into random players, explore or wPvP.   This idea isn't for a full game but an attachment to a game that already has a PvE system.

Again, this isn't my first choice.  I don't take it personal if you guys don't like it, it's just a constructive suggestion that could allow players to world PvP and explore without changing the whole game.  Something you said none of us did on this site.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/13/13 10:08:21 AM#154
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by sapphen

The only reward for playing this version is world PvP or exploration (maybe achievements).  If you want loot then you should play the official game.  Players should be encouraged to play the official game, hence no loot.  This is a playground, not a way to progress.

Except that you are now completely ignoring the part about how that is poor game design.

How is it poor game design?  It's an alternative way to play and shouldn't be encouraged (or discouraged for that matter).  Rewards and carrots should remain in the official game.  If people want to just explore or particiapte in world PvP then they could switch to this version and do so.  There is no design to it, players find stuff to do or play the official game.

Its poor game design because even after boiling the game down to its fundementals, they have already had to cut oh atleast a 1/3 of them just because of time constraints.

Originally posted by sapphen

Exactly, it's basically the biggest open world PvP map!  There may or may not be a lot of people there but players can organize a wPvP battle between guilds/groups in any city or landscape they want.  It would be a place to duel, run into random players, explore or wPvP.   This idea isn't for a full game but an attachment to a game that already has a PvE system.

Again, this isn't my first choice.  I don't take it personal if you guys don't like it, it's just a constructive suggestion that could allow players to world PvP and explore without changing the whole game.  Something you said none of us did on this site.

Why would they spend time adding your "suggestion" when they have already had to cut a number of their own that they feel will make the game better? The point of the game IS NOT to be a free for all explore map. Spending time on adding that as a "feature" is a complete waste of development resources when they could be implemting any number of other ideas they had to cut that actually already plays to the games strengths.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Nanfoodle

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3508

3/13/13 10:14:12 AM#155
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by sapphen
 

So your idea is no longer themepark, its not sandbox because your not earning, building or creating anything, so now you have what? The biggest open world PvP map? With a small number of players wandering around wondering where everyone is so they can have some fun. The PvP would be spread so thin the only thing to do in your idea of a game would be wattered down and empty. To make a massive PvP world to work you need the bulk of the population to drive it like Archeage is doing. Your idea of a game set inside another game thats the focus would be a husk at best.

Exactly, it's basically the biggest open world PvP map!  There may or may not be a lot of people there but players can organize a wPvP battle between guilds/groups in any city or landscape they want.  It would be a place to duel, run into random players, explore or wPvP.   This idea isn't for a full game but an attachment to a game that already has a PvE system.

Again, this isn't my first choice.  I don't take it personal if you guys don't like it, it's just a constructive suggestion that could allow players to world PvP and explore without changing the whole game.  Something you said none of us did on this site.

Ok, lets say your husk of an idea pulls enough players to work. Now what have you done to the main game? The DAoC design is to focus all PvP on one map to make large scale conflicts. To make a rich PvP world. Now you have a large number of people PvPing in your server and its watered down the main game, still sound like a good idea to you?

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17387

3/13/13 10:18:03 AM#156
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
 

Ok, lets say your husk of an idea pulls enough players to work. Now what have you done to the main game? The DAoC design is to focus all PvP on one map to make large scale conflicts. To make a rich PvP world. Now you have a large number of people PvPing in your server and its watered down the main game, still sound like a good idea to you?

Well, what would probably happen in his example is that the center area becomes more like the sieges in Lineage 2.

In lineage 2 one could pvp anywhere except towns. However, the sieges, the taking of land, happened in specific areas at specific times and those were main events for various groups.

So, none of this stuff is impossible, it's just making ESO a different game.

  sapphen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

3/13/13 10:21:19 AM#157
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by sapphen

The only reward for playing this version is world PvP or exploration (maybe achievements).  If you want loot then you should play the official game.  Players should be encouraged to play the official game, hence no loot.  This is a playground, not a way to progress.

Except that you are now completely ignoring the part about how that is poor game design.

How is it poor game design?  It's an alternative way to play and shouldn't be encouraged (or discouraged for that matter).  Rewards and carrots should remain in the official game.  If people want to just explore or particiapte in world PvP then they could switch to this version and do so.  There is no design to it, players find stuff to do or play the official game.

Its poor game design because even after boiling the game down to its fundementals, they have already had to cut oh atleast a 1/3 of them just because of time constraints.

What are you talking about, "cut oh atleast a 1/3" of what?  It's simple, take out NPCs and make a PvP flagging system.  The hardest work would be programming the mega-server to create a seperate instance.

 

Originally posted by sapphen

Exactly, it's basically the biggest open world PvP map!  There may or may not be a lot of people there but players can organize a wPvP battle between guilds/groups in any city or landscape they want.  It would be a place to duel, run into random players, explore or wPvP.   This idea isn't for a full game but an attachment to a game that already has a PvE system.

Again, this isn't my first choice.  I don't take it personal if you guys don't like it, it's just a constructive suggestion that could allow players to world PvP and explore without changing the whole game.  Something you said none of us did on this site.

Why would they spend time adding your "suggestion" when they have already had to cut a number of their own that they feel will make the game better? The point of the game IS NOT to be a free for all explore map. Spending time on adding that as a "feature" is a complete waste of development resources when they could be implemting any number of other ideas they had to cut that actually already plays to the games strengths.

Because this isn't a suggestion to change/alter their current game design.  The main point of ESO is to recreate DAoC and lock down the factions so they can try to create Faction Pride.  After reading Marks article on the matter (the original creator of DAoC), it is impossible to create pride because TES lore doesn't support it.   The idea works because it's simple to understand and doesn't require them to add new content.

  sapphen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

3/13/13 10:25:53 AM#158
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

So your idea is no longer themepark, its not sandbox because your not earning, building or creating anything, so now you have what? The biggest open world PvP map? With a small number of players wandering around wondering where everyone is so they can have some fun. The PvP would be spread so thin the only thing to do in your idea of a game would be wattered down and empty. To make a massive PvP world to work you need the bulk of the population to drive it like Archeage is doing. Your idea of a game set inside another game thats the focus would be a husk at best.

Exactly, it's basically the biggest open world PvP map!  There may or may not be a lot of people there but players can organize a wPvP battle between guilds/groups in any city or landscape they want.  It would be a place to duel, run into random players, explore or wPvP.   This idea isn't for a full game but an attachment to a game that already has a PvE system.

Again, this isn't my first choice.  I don't take it personal if you guys don't like it, it's just a constructive suggestion that could allow players to world PvP and explore without changing the whole game.  Something you said none of us did on this site.

Ok, lets say your husk of an idea pulls enough players to work. Now what have you done to the main game? The DAoC design is to focus all PvP on one map to make large scale conflicts. To make a rich PvP world. Now you have a large number of people PvPing in your server and its watered down the main game, still sound like a good idea to you?

I've done nothing to the main game, this isn't a replacement but a playground to goof off in.  You don't earn anything from playing in this version (you don't think that dueling or a target dummy would take away from PvP do you?).  There would be plenty of people playing in Cyrodiil.  If everyone does go to the Explorer version to PvP then the game is designed worse than my suggestion.

  Nanfoodle

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3508

3/13/13 10:31:20 AM#159
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

So your idea is no longer themepark, its not sandbox because your not earning, building or creating anything, so now you have what? The biggest open world PvP map? With a small number of players wandering around wondering where everyone is so they can have some fun. The PvP would be spread so thin the only thing to do in your idea of a game would be wattered down and empty. To make a massive PvP world to work you need the bulk of the population to drive it like Archeage is doing. Your idea of a game set inside another game thats the focus would be a husk at best.

Exactly, it's basically the biggest open world PvP map!  There may or may not be a lot of people there but players can organize a wPvP battle between guilds/groups in any city or landscape they want.  It would be a place to duel, run into random players, explore or wPvP.   This idea isn't for a full game but an attachment to a game that already has a PvE system.

Again, this isn't my first choice.  I don't take it personal if you guys don't like it, it's just a constructive suggestion that could allow players to world PvP and explore without changing the whole game.  Something you said none of us did on this site.

Ok, lets say your husk of an idea pulls enough players to work. Now what have you done to the main game? The DAoC design is to focus all PvP on one map to make large scale conflicts. To make a rich PvP world. Now you have a large number of people PvPing in your server and its watered down the main game, still sound like a good idea to you?

I've done nothing to the main game, this isn't a replacement but a playground to goof off in.  You don't earn anything from playing in this version (you don't think that dueling or a target dummy would take away from PvP do you?).  There would be plenty of people playing in Cyrodiil.  If everyone does go to the Explorer version to PvP then the game is designed worse than my suggestion.

Dont dismiss my post by not replying to the content, you would be taking away from the AvA map. As I said (here is where you listen to my point) What makes DAoC PvP so awesome is all PvP is focused on one map. More large scale wars. Having another server/area to go open world PvP would take players away from the AvA map and water down the main game. Do you get how the devs would not want to do that?

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/13/13 10:32:20 AM#160
Originally posted by sapphen

What are you talking about, "cut oh atleast a 1/3" of what?  It's simple, take out NPCs and make a PvP flagging system.  The hardest work would be programming the mega-server to create a seperate instance.

Are you being dense on purpose? I am honestly asking. If so I will just stop now and let you continue to throw your temper tantrum. There are already a number of ideas, or at the very least plans, that they have had to cut entirely because they do not have time to get it done before release. 

 

If you really think this is as easy as just "removing some npcs" then please, go make some mods, go take some classes on game design. Its not that easy. At all. Not even semi close.

Because this isn't a suggestion to change/alter their current game design.  The main point of ESO is to recreate DAoC and lock down the factions so they can try to create Faction Pride.  After reading Marks article on the matter (the original creator of DAoC), it is impossible to create pride because TES lore doesn't support it.   The idea works because it's simple to understand and doesn't require them to add new content.

But it is. The sheer number of systems that are connected, scripts that reference the same things for different purposes, etc are VAST. You are talkiing about a substancial amount of redundency (time spent) that needs to be built into the software, then tested in its own right. Not to mention maintaining it going forward. Also, you are wrong. There is a reason why they chose this particular era to set it in, there is not really a lot of lore to fall on.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

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