Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs

I dont really understand why they had to tie the Factions to specific Races/Nations instead of making the Factions independant.

Why follow the DAoC design to the letter? The 3 Realm (Faction) PvP in a large central location I get and I think will work well. Thats the part of DAoC that people remember as being the best_.

The 3 locked PvE areas just seem so contrived. Its like they said "Well, we did it that way in DAoC and since we are using the RvR model for ESO we might as well use the PvE model as well"

Its like they didnt even try to expand  on what was done before or think outside the standard Themepark MMO box and use their creativity.

Honestly the whole game just seems to be phoned in.

The reason why 3 sided RvR PvP worked was precisely because the 2 other factions where a mystery.  Remove one and the other fails to foster that same sense of Realm Pride needed to make RvR style PvP work in the first place.

Originally posted by Tuktz

I really hope they don't ruin a perfectly good PVE/RVR mix game and MMO to cater to all the RPG people that aren't used to playing with other players anyway.

I've played MMOs (and other multiplayer games) about as long as I have TES games - I would suspect that about EVERYONE here is used to playing with other players considering it's a MMO forum.

How do you know it's a perfectly good PvE/RvR mix when you haven't even played it yet?  At least we're only commenting on the information that has been released.  I would rather have my own opinion than just blindly accepting everything that comes from the devs.

Originally posted by azzamasin

So in other words you want the same failed concept that has never worked as well as DAoC's closed faction, closed PvE, Realm Pride fostering 3 sided faction warfare.

No thanks, I'll take exactly what the Devs have proposed with the original DAoC style banded RvR PvP and the open world exploration centric PvE realms of the 3 factions that gives each player 4X the PvE world of the single player Elder Scrolls Games.  Get the best of both worlds or get crap PvP ontop of decent PvE.  I'll take the latter every time.

10 years from now if every game released after ESO is a RvR 3 faction MMO then you may have an argument but as of now I'll take something exciting, new and that has known results.

So basically you want them to copy some niche game instead of actually making a real Elder Scrolls game?  It seems to me that you are looking for CU.

Originally posted by Maelwydd

 

Well question then.

Do you think it is impossible to keep the essence of TES games, i.e. the freedoms I mentioned above and have a 3 faction PvP game like they want with Cyrodil being where the PvP takes place?

If it isn't impossible (And I believe it would have been easier to design) then why do you think they didn't do it?

You see the only reason I see is this.

Mat Frior made DAOC.

He doesn't have any other good ideas or think it is the only way to do a game with PvP.

He didn't look for a common ground and just used the TES IP to make DAOC2.

If anyone can think of another reason (NO, DAOC is not gold standard or even the best or most popular PvP game out there...by a long way).

You know he got hired by the pitch he gave on what he could do for the game, or Bethesda sought him out because he worked on DAoC and Bethesda wanted that direction. If you were running the Warcraft creative rights you would not have let WoW come to be because it was not a RTS. Crafting in WoW, heck thats not from Warcraft, get out! Why dont we take this right retro and ask they make ESO a 8 bit game and in 2D, right where TES started? That is it roots. See you at launch =-P I really hope you pick a different faction so I get to kick your butt in AvA. 

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by azzamasin

So in other words you want the same failed concept that has never worked as well as DAoC's closed faction, closed PvE, Realm Pride fostering 3 sided faction warfare.

No thanks, I'll take exactly what the Devs have proposed with the original DAoC style banded RvR PvP and the open world exploration centric PvE realms of the 3 factions that gives each player 4X the PvE world of the single player Elder Scrolls Games.  Get the best of both worlds or get crap PvP ontop of decent PvE.  I'll take the latter every time.

10 years from now if every game released after ESO is a RvR 3 faction MMO then you may have an argument but as of now I'll take something exciting, new and that has known results.

So basically you want them to copy some niche game instead of actually making a real Elder Scrolls game?  It seems to me that you are looking for CU.

FFS, I wish people would just stop with this "real" Elder Scrolls crap.

Originally posted by immodium

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by azzamasin

So in other words you want the same failed concept that has never worked as well as DAoC's closed faction, closed PvE, Realm Pride fostering 3 sided faction warfare.

No thanks, I'll take exactly what the Devs have proposed with the original DAoC style banded RvR PvP and the open world exploration centric PvE realms of the 3 factions that gives each player 4X the PvE world of the single player Elder Scrolls Games.  Get the best of both worlds or get crap PvP ontop of decent PvE.  I'll take the latter every time.

10 years from now if every game released after ESO is a RvR 3 faction MMO then you may have an argument but as of now I'll take something exciting, new and that has known results.

So basically you want them to copy some niche game instead of actually making a real Elder Scrolls game?  It seems to me that you are looking for CU.

FFS, I wish people would just stop with this "real" Elder Scrolls crap.

If Bethesda puts their blessing on that game and they did, then its the real TES MMO. 

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by immodium

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by azzamasin

So in other words you want the same failed concept that has never worked as well as DAoC's closed faction, closed PvE, Realm Pride fostering 3 sided faction warfare.

No thanks, I'll take exactly what the Devs have proposed with the original DAoC style banded RvR PvP and the open world exploration centric PvE realms of the 3 factions that gives each player 4X the PvE world of the single player Elder Scrolls Games.  Get the best of both worlds or get crap PvP ontop of decent PvE.  I'll take the latter every time.

10 years from now if every game released after ESO is a RvR 3 faction MMO then you may have an argument but as of now I'll take something exciting, new and that has known results.

So basically you want them to copy some niche game instead of actually making a real Elder Scrolls game?  It seems to me that you are looking for CU.

FFS, I wish people would just stop with this "real" Elder Scrolls crap.

If Bethesda puts their blessing on that game and they did, then its the real TES MMO. 

I agree. Like Redguard is a "real" TES game. Some people imply that that game and this are some how not "real" TES games for not having certain game mechanics. It's pathetic.

Originally posted by immodium

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by immodium

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by azzamasin

So in other words you want the same failed concept that has never worked as well as DAoC's closed faction, closed PvE, Realm Pride fostering 3 sided faction warfare.

No thanks, I'll take exactly what the Devs have proposed with the original DAoC style banded RvR PvP and the open world exploration centric PvE realms of the 3 factions that gives each player 4X the PvE world of the single player Elder Scrolls Games.  Get the best of both worlds or get crap PvP ontop of decent PvE.  I'll take the latter every time.

10 years from now if every game released after ESO is a RvR 3 faction MMO then you may have an argument but as of now I'll take something exciting, new and that has known results.

So basically you want them to copy some niche game instead of actually making a real Elder Scrolls game?  It seems to me that you are looking for CU.

FFS, I wish people would just stop with this "real" Elder Scrolls crap.

If Bethesda puts their blessing on that game and they did, then its the real TES MMO. 

I agree. Like Redguard is a "real" TES game. Some people imply that that game and this are some how not "real" TES games for not having certain game mechanics. It's pathetic.

So basically I'm getting attacked by two twerps because of what that guy said he wanted.... fucking pathetic.

Originally posted by immodium

 

I agree. Like Redguard is a "real" TES game. Some people imply that that game and this are some how not "real" TES games for not having certain game mechanics. It's pathetic.

True. But do you want the TES MMO to be as successful an interpretation as Redguard was?

That is pathetic if you ask me.

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by immodium

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by immodium

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by azzamasin

So in other words you want the same failed concept that has never worked as well as DAoC's closed faction, closed PvE, Realm Pride fostering 3 sided faction warfare.

No thanks, I'll take exactly what the Devs have proposed with the original DAoC style banded RvR PvP and the open world exploration centric PvE realms of the 3 factions that gives each player 4X the PvE world of the single player Elder Scrolls Games.  Get the best of both worlds or get crap PvP ontop of decent PvE.  I'll take the latter every time.

10 years from now if every game released after ESO is a RvR 3 faction MMO then you may have an argument but as of now I'll take something exciting, new and that has known results.

So basically you want them to copy some niche game instead of actually making a real Elder Scrolls game?  It seems to me that you are looking for CU.

FFS, I wish people would just stop with this "real" Elder Scrolls crap.

If Bethesda puts their blessing on that game and they did, then its the real TES MMO. 

I agree. Like Redguard is a "real" TES game. Some people imply that that game and this are some how not "real" TES games for not having certain game mechanics. It's pathetic.

So basically I'm getting attacked by two twerps because of what that guy said he wanted.... fucking pathetic.

How have you come to that conclusion?

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by immodium

 

I agree. Like Redguard is a "real" TES game. Some people imply that that game and this are some how not "real" TES games for not having certain game mechanics. It's pathetic.

True. But do you want the TES MMO to be as successful an interpretation as Redguard was?

That is pathetic if you ask me.

No, whats pathetic is the hole "real" Edler Scrolls nonesence.

With that logic World of Warcraft is somehow not a "real" Warcraft game.

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

 

If Bethesda puts their blessing on that game and they did, then its the real TES MMO. 

For all we know they gave their blessing becuase it might sell more copies of the single player game. Being owned by another Zenimax I seriously doubt Bethesda actually had a say in an MMO getting made. More like they were told it was going to happen so assist where you can and don't make any negative statements.

I have jokingly said before it wouldn't suprise me if Todd let Matt run with his design just so Zenimax know who is actually a good designer and who isn't. Nothing like letting someone else make a failure to reinforce your own reputation.

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

 

If Bethesda puts their blessing on that game and they did, then its the real TES MMO. 

For all we know they gave their blessing becuase it might sell more copies of the single player game. Being owned by another Zenimax I seriously doubt Bethesda actually had a say in an MMO getting made. More like they were told it was going to happen so assist where you can and don't make any negative statements.

I have jokingly said before it wouldn't suprise me if Todd let Matt run with his design just so Zenimax know who is actually a good designer and who isn't. Nothing like letting someone else make a failure to reinforce your own reputation.

There is no chance of it doing that unless ESO is being ported to console.

Originally posted by immodium

 

No, whats pathetic is the hole "real" Edler Scrolls nonesence.

With that logic World of Warcraft is somehow not a "real" Warcraft game.

WOW is a totally different genre to their RTS games. It isn't a like for like conversion. TES being turned into an MMO IS a like for like conversion.

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by immodium

I agree. Like Redguard is a "real" TES game. Some people imply that that game and this are some how not "real" TES games for not having certain game mechanics. It's pathetic.

True. But do you want the TES MMO to be as successful an interpretation as Redguard was?

That is pathetic if you ask me.

LOL, I actually had one of the White Knights of ESO respond to me "... but this isn't a real ES game, it's only a spin-off like Redguard and Battlespire".  Now they are getting mad because I don't consider ESO a 'real' TES game. 

We gotta listen to how they think Warcraft going from RTS to MMO is the EXACT same thing as TES SP-RPG going to MMORPG... in what world would that make sense.  Singleplayer RPGs are related to MMORPG in a lot of ways; storylines, quests, items, character development, levels/xp, bosses, dungeons, view perspective.  Oblivion was called an 'offline' MMO because of all the similarities but somehow it's closer to a sidescroller or RTS than it is a MMO.

Originally posted by immodium

There is no chance of it doing that unless ESO is being ported to console.

Think you don't understand. TES is the single player game, TESO is the MMO. If TESO bombs then TES fans will probably look forward to the next TES game as it will be the next installment and they will be trying to fill the hole left by a failed TES MMO. It might sell more because people will want to fill the hole. Has nothing to do with any console port.

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by immodium

 

No, whats pathetic is the hole "real" Edler Scrolls nonesence.

With that logic World of Warcraft is somehow not a "real" Warcraft game.

WOW is a totally different genre to their RTS games. It isn't a like for like conversion. TES being turned into an MMO IS a like for like conversion.

What genre it's from is totally irrelevant to whether its a "real" (insert IP) game.

Originally posted by sapphen

LOL, I actually had one of the White Knights of ESO respond to me "... but this isn't a real ES game, it's only a spin-off like Redguard and Battlespire".

Now they are getting mad because I don't consider ESO a 'real' TES game yet we gotta listen to how Warcraft going from RTS to MMO is the EXACT same thing as TES SPRPG going to MMO... in what world would that actually make sense.  Singleplayer RPGs are related to MMORPG in a lot of ways; storylines, quests, items, character development, levels/xp, bosses, dungeons, view perspective.  Oblivion was called an 'offline' MMO because of all the similarities but somehow it's closer to a sidescroller or RTS than it is a MMO.

Well the problem is some people think MMO is a genre when it isn't. A MMO FPS game and a MMORPG are two different genres. A SPRPG and a MMORPG are the same genre.

Originally posted by immodium

 

What genre it's from is totally irrelevant to whether its a "real" (insert IP) game.

I have never mentioned 'real'. Only that your assumption that an RTS and a RPG are the same genre, which they are not.