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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Mark Jacobs and Company - Please do not REQUIRE monthly fees to play.

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264 posts found
  xmenty

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/22/10
Posts: 691

3/12/13 9:55:12 PM#161
Originally posted by PerfArt
In this medium, as in any, you get what you pay for. How is this a hard concept to grasp?

Does anyone expect a F2P but not pay to win model to work for a niche mmo?

There are so many elements of fail in that logic that I don't know where to start. I can understand armchair designers, because we all think we know how to design an awesome game. (Hah)

But armchair economics? Let's take it easy, folks. Pay to play ensures support. Anyone who remembers Team Leads in DAoC knows that. Anyone who remembers what it's like to know no one else was paying to win knows that.

How is everyone being on a level playing field worse than a f2p model where A) people can pay to win, or B) the developer makes no money?

Sometimes I feel as if people expect an entire team of people to sustain a game over years and years, managing servers and providing content, while being both f2p AND not pay to win.

Not to be rude, and all respect due, but that is pretty fucking petulant.

 

I guess, the company from World of Tank and LOL don't make a lot of money from F2P?

It is not about what type of payment method, it is all about the gameplay and how talented the devs are.

 

 

Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language :)

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

3/12/13 11:11:10 PM#162
I have a solution too.  Simply cut back on 4 trips to Taco Bell a month and BAM there you have saved enough money to play CU.
  gigat

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/24/10
Posts: 605

3/12/13 11:57:50 PM#163
Originally posted by h0urg1ass
Originally posted by gigat

I agree with the OP on some points.  He makes a valid argument about investing hundreds or thousands of dollars (and hours) building your character... then you stop paying the monthly sub, and you're completely locked out.  I've never thought about it like that, and it's undeniably true.  That kinda sucks...

Exactly the same way that someone who has paid their rent their whole lives and then doesn't pay for a month and gets kicked out on the curb.

You entitlement mentality kids. Harden the fuck up.

Significant difference between paying rent for shelter, and paying a monthly subscription fee for a video game.

  Brohime

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 34

3/13/13 12:25:31 AM#164
Originally posted by snapfusion
I have a solution too.  Simply cut back on 4 trips to Taco Bell a month and BAM there you have saved enough money to play CU.

or two chipolte burritos!  

    

  morfidon

Novice Member

Joined: 2/19/13
Posts: 245

3/13/13 7:11:09 AM#165
Originally posted by xmenty
Originally posted by PerfArt
In this medium, as in any, you get what you pay for. How is this a hard concept to grasp?

Does anyone expect a F2P but not pay to win model to work for a niche mmo?

There are so many elements of fail in that logic that I don't know where to start. I can understand armchair designers, because we all think we know how to design an awesome game. (Hah)

But armchair economics? Let's take it easy, folks. Pay to play ensures support. Anyone who remembers Team Leads in DAoC knows that. Anyone who remembers what it's like to know no one else was paying to win knows that.

How is everyone being on a level playing field worse than a f2p model where A) people can pay to win, or B) the developer makes no money?

Sometimes I feel as if people expect an entire team of people to sustain a game over years and years, managing servers and providing content, while being both f2p AND not pay to win.

Not to be rude, and all respect due, but that is pretty fucking petulant.

 

I guess, the company from World of Tank and LOL don't make a lot of money from F2P?

It is not about what type of payment method, it is all about the gameplay and how talented the devs are.

 

 

But if you want to be as good as other you have to have premium ammo which cost so much that you have to buy it and it will cost a lot more to buy it in big quantity. This is just lame. I want to pay static fee per month and have fun.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19113

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

3/13/13 7:35:11 AM#166
Originally posted by xmenty
Originally posted by PerfArt
In this medium, as in any, you get what you pay for. How is this a hard concept to grasp?

Does anyone expect a F2P but not pay to win model to work for a niche mmo?

There are so many elements of fail in that logic that I don't know where to start. I can understand armchair designers, because we all think we know how to design an awesome game. (Hah)

But armchair economics? Let's take it easy, folks. Pay to play ensures support. Anyone who remembers Team Leads in DAoC knows that. Anyone who remembers what it's like to know no one else was paying to win knows that.

How is everyone being on a level playing field worse than a f2p model where A) people can pay to win, or B) the developer makes no money?

Sometimes I feel as if people expect an entire team of people to sustain a game over years and years, managing servers and providing content, while being both f2p AND not pay to win.

Not to be rude, and all respect due, but that is pretty fucking petulant.

 

I guess, the company from World of Tank and LOL don't make a lot of money from F2P?

It is not about what type of payment method, it is all about the gameplay and how talented the devs are.

 

Blizzard makes a lot of money on WOW with a sub model,  and ANET makes a lot of money with it's BTP model.

So what is your point exactly.?

Some payment models are better for one style of game, and another is better for other games.  Most of the fans of this title feel sub models are best for PVP centric, persistant game worlds such as CU (see EVE for another example) and therefore favor it over other models.

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  DeanMalinco

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/13
Posts: 26

3/13/13 12:33:47 PM#167
disagree with OP, subscription model is better for having the dev team constantly update the game.
  Stiler

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 599

3/13/13 4:58:49 PM#168
Originally posted by DeanMalinco
disagree with OP, subscription model is better for having the dev team constantly update the game.

Guild wars 2 has had a lot more "updates" that actually add CONTENT to the game compared to many "sub" based mmo's i've played over the years.

 

There were plenty of sub mmo's that didn't have that many content updates (if any at all) and instead released expansions which you had to pay for to get that new content.

 

 

  Ulorik

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/11
Posts: 180

3/13/13 5:32:27 PM#169

In an RvR game you cannot have any monetisation model that in the slightest creates P2w or the players will just disappear and you have shot an own goal.

 

You may have some middle ground like paying for fluff, or subscribing to take part in the next season of warfare (something like ranked servers would be cool actually - Premier league - first and second division, promotion and relegation). I however doubt that it would make the money required.

 

To put it bluntly, anyone who is interested in a RvR niche game like CU will have enough experience with MMO's to know that for this type of game a subscription is just the fairest way forward, after all, the people working on the dev team need to pay their mortgage as well.

  Merkethy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/23/10
Posts: 23

3/13/13 5:46:12 PM#170
If the game manages to deliver the kind of content im after ( not regurgitated PvE grind) then I would be happy to pay a regular sub for it.
  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1519

3/13/13 5:53:29 PM#171
Originally posted by Stiler
Originally posted by DeanMalinco
disagree with OP, subscription model is better for having the dev team constantly update the game.

Guild wars 2 has had a lot more "updates" that actually add CONTENT to the game compared to many "sub" based mmo's i've played over the years.

 

There were plenty of sub mmo's that didn't have that many content updates (if any at all) and instead released expansions which you had to pay for to get that new content.

 

 

Such as?

  Rhoklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/12/04
Posts: 3049

$500 Backer to 2015's Top New MMO... The Repopulation!

3/13/13 6:05:42 PM#172

F2P only works for PvE focused games, not PvP or in this case, RvR focused games. So with that being said, F2P did wonders to help LOTRO increase revenues by 400% when they went from SUB to F2P. However anytime you focus on PvP for an MMO, F2P just creates more hassle than it's worth.

Take Planetside, All Points Bulletin, All Points Bulletin: Reloaded, Planetside 2 and so on. All of those games are PvP focused and all of them are F2P. While cheaters will be sure to chime in and say not very many people actually use AIMBOTs or other hacks in those game, the fact is, theres enough that do to make the game pointless.

Sorry, but PvP focused games and F2P should never be in the same sentence, EVER.

  tuscarora

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 54

3/13/13 6:37:57 PM#173

No free play, no pay to win.  Subscriptions reduce hacking because their are consequences when they lose accounts.

  Destai

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/31/09
Posts: 496

3/21/13 9:09:19 AM#174
Originally posted by sweetdigs
Originally posted by Destai
Originally posted by Niix_Ozek

He has already stated it will be subscription and doesn't care if he offends a few people.

stop posting these ugh

It doesn't matter if it offends people, it matters if it's financially viable. Let's take a look at how many successful games still use that business model.

How many "successful" MMOs do NOT use the subscription model?

I don't consider the games that were subscription and turned to F2P as being successful.  It's not like SWTOR or EQ2's subscriptions or profitability got any better when they went F2P.  They were already in the tank.

No, those two games were failures because of their mechanices, especially SWTOR. However, DDO, LOTRO, and TERA all reported marked improvements in their player base and revenue since their conversion. I think these companies should save some face and simply avoid the subscription model from the start. I don't think f2p is implemented well in many cases, but it at least keeps the company alive long enough to attempt improvements. 

Current MMOs: Wildstar, Guild Wars 2, the Secret World, World of Warcraft

Past Loves: Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Everquest

  Dimsum1337

Novice Member

Joined: 8/24/12
Posts: 60

3/21/13 9:15:46 AM#175
Originally posted by sweetdigs

DISAGREE!!

Make it a monthly subscription.  No cash house.  No pay to win.  No pay to level past level 20. 

Just a flat monthly subscription so everybody is on equal footing.

 

+1

I want my game churning out content like there is no tommorow so I want them to have the resources to do it full time. This is something I am willing to personally pay for. I think that games can be economically successful with a p2p model and moderate and steady subscription base. Gamewise I dont feel driven by the knowledge that 1 million other people are playing this game when even 20 000 makes for a large community. 

 

My 2 c 

 

p.s. It generally goes that most good things in life you have to pay for

  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

3/21/13 9:19:46 AM#176

Why hasn't this topic died? He has stated many many many times it will be sub based ... period.

 

 

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  Ulorik

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/11
Posts: 180

3/21/13 3:27:29 PM#177
Originally posted by Dimsum1337
Originally posted by sweetdigs

DISAGREE!!

Make it a monthly subscription.  No cash house.  No pay to win.  No pay to level past level 20. 

Just a flat monthly subscription so everybody is on equal footing.

 

+1

I want my game churning out content like there is no tommorow so I want them to have the resources to do it full time. This is something I am willing to personally pay for. I think that games can be economically successful with a p2p model and moderate and steady subscription base. Gamewise I dont feel driven by the knowledge that 1 million other people are playing this game when even 20 000 makes for a large community. 

 

My 2 c 

 

p.s. It generally goes that most good things in life you have to pay for

I don't think you need a churn out of "content like there is no tomorrow" in a RvR centred game.

 

Generally I fully agree with a subscription model in a RvR game for all the above reasons.

 

 

However, if you think a bit outside of the box: Imagine a RvR game with several servers which could be tiered like you got it in football, i.e. Premier league, first division, second division and so on. You could play the game in seasons which last say 3 or 4 months. At the end of a season you would have an indicator measuring the performance of guilds on each server, best guilds of the three realms are matched and transfered to the Premier League server, the weaker ones to the first and second division servers etc. (and of course relegation and promotion at the end of each season). Firstly you would have a tool of balancing realms on the servers and therefore a better competition and game experience. Second you could charge for the game per season, bit like a Buy2Play model in installments. As a developer you would have a steady revenue stream which is in effect very similar to a subscription model but would have the additional benefit of creating server balance.

  GreenHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 1342

3/21/13 3:34:19 PM#178
I never thought I would see a thread where someone wants a game that seems to have potential go F2P at launch. I would rather have no box fee and charge me a monthly sub. If you can afford the box you can afford at least 4 months of gaming. After that $15 a month really isn't a lot of cash. MMO's really are the cheapest form of entertainment..until they go F2P.
  Comaf

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1134

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

3/21/13 3:37:40 PM#179
Originally posted by Niix_Ozek

He has already stated it will be subscription and doesn't care if he offends a few people.

stop posting these ugh

SIGNED.

 

I won't play F2P....never have, never will.

  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1424

3/21/13 3:40:16 PM#180


Originally posted by sweetdigs
DISAGREE!!

Make it a monthly subscription.  No cash house.  No pay to win.  No pay to level past level 20. 

Just a flat monthly subscription so everybody is on equal footing.

 



This

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

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