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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Mark Jacobs and Company - Please do not REQUIRE monthly fees to play.

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264 posts found
  Marcus-

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/28/06
Posts: 968

3/12/13 4:38:22 AM#121
Originally posted by Stiler
 

WoW is F2p to level 20 if you weren't aware, then requires you to purchase it/sub.

Also you can bet your britches if WoW's sub number drops over the years to lower and lower, they will shift toward a more f2p model then that.

WoW is also the "exception" in the mmo market, NOT the normal or average mmo, by far. So many companies have went under trying to chase it's success.

I know CU will be tiered sub, and how he wants a sub model and doesn't mind a lower niche market, but from a business stand point with all the other mmo's ont he market, having a subscription is one of the negatives that people will attribute to the game vs Guidl wars 2, or other newer f2p games, and that can affect sales and things for the game.

Personally for me, when it comes to a PVP/RVR game, having a big playerbase is one of the most important things, if there's hardly anyone to fight it loses it's fun/luster. f2p games can help this a lot, as Planetside 2 shows, there was an interview a while back where one of the devs talked about how many people don't "pay" anything, but they add to the game for the people that do and vice versa, as without the huge number of free non-paying players it wouldn't be as fun/interesting for those that do pay money here and there.

 

Or you can put the pressure on the developer to make a better game than GW2, PS2 or the newer f2p games.

 

Put the onus on them to make a game people are willing to pay for, as opposed to just mulling around, contributing nothing more than being" f2p bodies" for your fun and to keep your game luster going.

 

  I hate that folks give these developers a reason to make games people don't need to pay for (other than a shop, but thats a whole nother topic), or (in my opinion) poor quality  games. Give us (one) high quality game, please. There still a lot of folks out there willing to shell out a monthly fee, the question is, can developers make a game worth that anymore? Is it really that hard?  It doesn't need 3 million users, i hope (?). We can't get any better than what we have gotten lately, with all the ridiculous amounts of money these guys pour into development? Yeeesh.

 

 If they can't, they won't get my money, and  its ok, I'm betting someone will eventually.  I can wait.

 

  xAPOCx

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 891

3/12/13 6:47:31 AM#122

how many people in this thread are for f2p? 2? 3? lol.

p2p all the way!

  Jayaris

Novice Member

Joined: 9/05/08
Posts: 340

Hi

3/12/13 6:51:57 AM#123

When I read this thread all I thought was "Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck you."

I still think that. If you don't want to support a subscription based game don't put in for the Kickstarter. It's really that simple.

There are plenty of other games for  you to play. 

Hi

  Aiscence

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 6

3/12/13 7:16:39 AM#124
Originally posted by Stiler

F2p has been huge in the eastern market for a while, and it's really picked up steam in the Western market.

You say the Sub system isn't dying? Then can you explain why almost any big mmo released in the past few years has moved toward that model, and why many newer ones are going that route?

SW:TOR

Aion

Lotro

Tera

Age of Conan

The Secret World

EQ2

Rift

etc.

Simple: For most of them: they were bad, people who were playing these , got a "déja-vu" from wow, but in an inferior way (content lacking). EQ2 have change because he was getting old and rift ... oh he is not Free to play.

  Jimmac

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/28/10
Posts: 1676

3/12/13 8:12:25 AM#125
I'd prefer pay to play of some sorts, with different tiered subs...$15 for the months I play a lot and $5 for the months I don't play much but so that i can still stay connected.
  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5549

3/12/13 8:40:28 AM#126

This reminds me of a poll that was taken by one of the community handlers for SWTOR about a year or so before release. The poll asked about what kind of payment model people would prefer. The answers were overwhelmingly in favor of a pay to play system.

 

I have no clue if they actually took those types of public opinion polls into account when they decided to go with a pay to play model, but they did end up going pay to play.... only to end up going F2P about a year or so later. Perhaps they should have gone with what would have worked instead of what public internet opinion preferred.

 

In my opinion, he needs to go with whatever payment model is going to work to keep the game afloat with the reasonable amount of updates and additions that MMORPG players are so accustomed to. One thing to consider is that the game itself isn't going to be very expensive so recouping costs isn't going to be as difficult. This is all assuming that once he gets the 2 million or so from Kickstarter he doesn't go to a publisher and use the success of kickstarter to ask for more money...

 

But he does explain why this won't happen somewhat. He needs so little money to make this game because he is apparently building the game for a niche market (his own words) so his expectations for long term revenue may not be that high. He isn't bound to creating huge revenues because he doesn't have a publisher (or the players from a mass market - whoever they might be) to answer to. It's difficult for me to buy that. What if his audience become so niche that he can't support the game properly and has to let developers go? Is he willing to modify his stance on payment models?

 

It's likely that the answer to that question is a yes. We've heard many, many developers in the past promise a P2P model only to realize it wasn't working for the game and then flip the switch. They get the opening revenue and then open the floodgates. But can you blame them? If shown two options, one where you close down the servers and one where you change to a different payment model, which would you choose?

 

 

 

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  User Deleted
3/12/13 9:46:54 AM#127
Disagree with OP.  Give me all the content and a sub per month and I'm good.  I don't want to pay for extra items etc... Give me the whole game and keep it updated on a monthly to bi-monthly basis with some new content. 
  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4138

3/12/13 9:51:21 AM#128
Originally posted by colddog04

This reminds me of a poll that was taken by one of the community handlers for SWTOR about a year or so before release. The poll asked about what kind of payment model people would prefer. The answers were overwhelmingly in favor of a pay to play system.

 *snip*

 

The reason SWTOR had to go f2p is because the game was just plain bad.. without going f2p the game would have just died..

Even now that it is f2p I dont see it lasting as long as eq, eq2 or even SWG for that matter.. you cant polish a turd..

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  BowbowDAoC

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/10
Posts: 482

3/12/13 9:59:41 AM#129

True, offer something good, and people wont bother the monthly fee.

and on a side note, i recall MJ mentionned somewhere that the monthly fee could be lower than the majority of mmos outthere, he didnt specify numbers, but still.

he could have around 9.99$ a month in mind, wich would be damn good, and under the 10$ a month psychological barrier.

Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5549

3/12/13 10:05:06 AM#130
Originally posted by Caldrin
Originally posted by colddog04

This reminds me of a poll that was taken by one of the community handlers for SWTOR about a year or so before release. The poll asked about what kind of payment model people would prefer. The answers were overwhelmingly in favor of a pay to play system.

 *snip*

 

The reason SWTOR had to go f2p is because the game was just plain bad.. without going f2p the game would have just died..

Even now that it is f2p I dont see it lasting as long as eq, eq2 or even SWG for that matter.. you cant polish a turd..

That's certainly what all the people that prefer "pay to play only" say. They say all the games that went F2P are bad. The only games worth paying require a sub. yada yada yada.

 

Of course that implies that this game is going to be so awesome it will easily be supported by the P2P subscribers. He appears to be targeting a niche audience (likely far smaller than those currently playing SWTOR) and he is spending so little on development that the audience could end up being too niche to support the game enough to make those subscribers content.

 

Either way, the market is jam packed with competitors right now. When DAoC came out, there just wasn't the same level of competition. Fortunately, we'll probably (maybe) get to see what actually happens with this little game. And by little I mean woefully underfunded.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Sinsai

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/07
Posts: 221

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.-Benjamin Franklin

3/12/13 10:06:35 AM#131

100% Diagree with OP.

 

PLease MJ keep CU subscribtion based, period.

If people aren't willing to pay they have  plenty of other choices out there.

  seafirex

Elite Member

Joined: 12/08/06
Posts: 273

3/12/13 10:15:33 AM#132

Here is another suggestion regarding price of box and monthly fee's.

Currently you buy a game at around 60$ then you need to add monthly sub's that are around 15$ to 20$.

Why not sell the box at 30$ and keep the monthly sub at 15$ or even lower it down to 10$.

Like that even more people will come play the game. 

 

Reason behind this is simple. You can't exange those games after you finish with it. Your activation code is one time use only.

So basicaly if you stop playing or can't play anymore for what ever reason you still have to buy another box and monthly sub.

 

So sorry OP but i can't be ok with your suggestion

  Wicoa

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 1613

3/12/13 10:17:40 AM#133

I want the subscription model.

All games I stick to long term are subscription only and I want regular development and a cash rich business running my main games and to know that all players are equal within the virtual world.

If you cannot afford the monthly price of an mmorpg (even kids I know can with pocket money jobs) then you need to focus on real life not gaming on a computer screen, if you take that advice in the wrong way then go ahead and bury your head in every f2p on the market, there are plenty of them.

 

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5549

3/12/13 10:23:52 AM#134
Originally posted by Wicoa

I want the subscription model.

All games I stick to long term are subscription only.

If you cannot afford the monthly price of an mmorpg (even kids I know can with pocket money jobs) then you need to focus on real life not gaming on a computer screen.

Why is it that poeple think that the reason that games go F2P is because people can't afford the game? My opinion is that most people stop subbing to games not because they can't afford it, but because the game gets stale or they want to move on for any number of reasons.

 

The "all you poor cheap bastards need to get a job argument" is just silly to me.

 

Not that I don't understand why people prefer sub models. It makes sense to me why people like sub models. I just don't understand why people that like sub models like to shit on people that are more open to other options.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17203

3/12/13 10:33:43 AM#135
Originally posted by Stiler
 

 

F2p has been huge in the eastern market for a while, and it's really picked up steam in the Western market.

You say the Sub system isn't dying? Then can you explain why almost any big mmo released in the past few years has moved toward that model, and why many newer ones are going that route?

SW:TOR

Aion

Lotro

Tera

Age of Conan

The Secret World

EQ2

Rift

etc.

 

SOE itself is moving many of their games to f2p as a comapny, the upcoming dragon mmo from SOE is f2p,  the next Everquest game is likely going the free to play route,  Neverwinter Nights is free to play, and many more.

From a buisiness standpoint f2p is where the market is shifting. The old monthly based sub system was fine back in ithose days, but the market is saturated with mmo's (mostly wow style clones, which are getting old imo) but the f2p model has it's advantages, and microtransaction can work without being "pay to win" and more focused on cosmetic items, server changes, name changes, fluff titles and other unique things that don't impact gameplay at all.

 

 

Because they want more money and so far it's proven that the "f2p" system allows for a greater amount of money to be made. Having said this, Aion did not make the money that NC was hoping it would make so there's evidence there that "entirely f2p your way" might not  be the best way to go.

These f2p games allow for a smaller contingent of people to pay more money as they are heavily invested in the game and don't mind paying for conveniences or cosmetics. It basically uncaps their spending limit as they would normally just pay the sub fee.

All the while it encourages new players to join and possibly spend a small amount of money and then if they don't like they game they become part of the churn while other new players take their place.

Part of the issue is that you then constantly have to be monetizing your game, adding different things, marketing those different things in the hopes that someone will buy it. A new hat, a new mount, some sort fo leveling bundle, etc. Some argue that these games start being less about their world and their game play elements and more about what can be created and sold on a continuing basis.

It's all about what brings in the most money and f2p games allow for unfettered spending.

 

  NegativeX

Novice Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 100

3/12/13 11:18:42 AM#136

Sadly, B2P will not work with the small niche market Mark is going after. And F2P or play to win models will kill CU before it's even started. Might work when you have 1+ million active players like GW2, but CU won't be anywhere near that.

The DAoC community is a finicky bunch and I doubt anything but the traditional subscription model will appease us.

But regardless, Mark has already stated a firm stance on the subscription model, so this discussion is a moot point.

Camelot Unchained Fanpage

https://simply-gaming.com/camelot/

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3139

3/12/13 11:23:10 AM#137
I'll take P2P over B2P or F2P anyday.  My two MMOs I play now are both subscription based.  I like P2P because it makes players that don't want to play it, not able to play it.  I can't count how many times I've been playing a F2P game, and someone logs in and is spewing "This game sux" rants and trolling.  All you can tell them is "then don't play".  In a sub game you can always tell them "well you're an idiot for paying to play a game that sucks then haha"
  vakabiel

Novice Member

Joined: 3/09/05
Posts: 12

3/12/13 12:29:08 PM#138

I disagree with this post for a few reasons... when you play a MMO you are purchasing the game itself and then the monthly sub is the continued fee for the service of allowing you to access that game.  It doesn't run on your local machine 100% and therefore requires cost by the provider in the way of bandwidth/servers/people to create new content that isn't an official release.  Once you pay your money for that retail box they don't stop paying the people making that game run day to day.

There are plenty of F2P models out there that rely on the ~5% of the game population to stay in business and be active.  It might make sense for them but with such a niche of players in CU it doesn't and Mark has mentioned that several times.  I'm all for what allows this game to stay active and innovative.  People spend more than $15 a month on beer or fast food  but will complain about a MMO sub?

Keep it as is please.  If you want to see a F2P done right check out League of Legends - they don't sell power.

  sweetdigs

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/11/03
Posts: 199

3/12/13 12:47:45 PM#139
Originally posted by colddog04

This reminds me of a poll that was taken by one of the community handlers for SWTOR about a year or so before release. The poll asked about what kind of payment model people would prefer. The answers were overwhelmingly in favor of a pay to play system.

 

I have no clue if they actually took those types of public opinion polls into account when they decided to go with a pay to play model, but they did end up going pay to play.... only to end up going F2P about a year or so later. Perhaps they should have gone with what would have worked instead of what public internet opinion preferred.

 

No, SWTOR should have been a better game.  That was the problem, not the pay model.  SWTOR was a massive flop and a horrible game.  It hasn't been any more successful as a F2P title.

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5549

3/12/13 12:50:40 PM#140
Originally posted by sweetdigs
Originally posted by colddog04

This reminds me of a poll that was taken by one of the community handlers for SWTOR about a year or so before release. The poll asked about what kind of payment model people would prefer. The answers were overwhelmingly in favor of a pay to play system.

 

I have no clue if they actually took those types of public opinion polls into account when they decided to go with a pay to play model, but they did end up going pay to play.... only to end up going F2P about a year or so later. Perhaps they should have gone with what would have worked instead of what public internet opinion preferred.

No, SWTOR should have been a better game.  That was the problem, not the pay model.  SWTOR was a massive flop and a horrible game.  It hasn't been any more successful as a F2P title.

So then do you agree that they should have gone with what would have worked better (a F2P model of some kind) instead of agreeing with what public internet opinion preferred? Or are you saying they should have just scrapped the whole 300 million dollar project?

 

It is doing better than it was when it was P2P btw.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

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