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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Mark Jacobs and Company - Please do not REQUIRE monthly fees to play.

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264 posts found
  Doogiehowser

Elite Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1928

3/11/13 4:47:24 PM#61
Originally posted by morfidon
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by morfidon

Also DISAGREE. I want a good community. Not a hoping players who jump from realm to realm.

I don't want also so many kids. 

10-15$ per month is very cheap. And it's good for overall quality of game. Let devs focus on game not on rewards for people who pay. 

BTW LoL is instant action game not a game like CU is gonna be. CU is gonna have legendary moments that might be unpredictable and we need it to be paid not free.

Ehh..as if there are no kids in P2P games right? 

Ehh as if there are so many like in F2P game right?

So many? i don't know..you got some internal data to share with us? you make it sound as 15 bucks is such a huge barrier to stop kids from playing a P2P MMO.  In your own words 10-15 bucks is very cheap.... so you are just contradicting yourself.

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  h0urg1ass

Novice Member

Joined: 11/29/05
Posts: 288

3/11/13 4:48:35 PM#62

Honestly, if anyone is really so strapped for cash that they can't pay a measly 15 dollar monthly sub, then they should probably reconsider their priorities.

The ONLY free to play model that I even remotely agree with is EVE Onlines model.  In EVE it's fully EULA legal for anyone to pay me in game currency, goods or services and I pay their sub fee for them.  Quid pro quo.

The freeloader model can take a hike.

Free trials, yes.

Freeloaders, no.

  BowbowDAoC

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/10
Posts: 482

3/11/13 4:49:48 PM#63
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by sweetdigs
Originally posted by Kuppa

I don't like monthly fees and it's many horrible arguments, like:

  1. "anyone has that amount of money": That amount of money is clearly not in everyones hand, if you have it great. Give thanks for the fact that you have a well paying job or have parents who give you money or maybe won the lotto, I don't know or care the point is not everyone is on the same boat so please don't boast how "cheap" it is. It just makes you look ignorant.
  2. "kids will come!": The kids that will come are the spoiled brats that can afford a sub.
  3. "It's cheaper than a movie!": Yes, it's cheaper than a movie, an amusement park, a concert, ect... Where this falls flat on its ass is that compared to other games it's more expensive. It's easy to know there is something wrong when folks try to justify the price of something when they have to start compairing it to other things aside from it's direct competition.
  4. "they need that montly income": In this market with so many games that cost much less they will not get that monthly income if players feel like they could be getting more for their money elsewhere. They have to lower the price of admission in order to even get people in the door and after they are in the door they have to blow them away to justify a sub. So it actually hurts to charge a sub even though it sounds good in theory(in this market).

 

It costs money to host and manage servers, to design continued improvements to the game, etc.

That money is going to be paid somehow.  Either by those who are rich enough to Pay to Win in a F2P model, or by all of us evenly in a subscription model where everybody will be on equal footing and you don't have to worry about the guy on the other realm having purchased stuff from the store that will put him at an advantage to you.

Personally, I am with Mark on the equal footing, subscription model.  Especially in a PVP-oriented game.

Honestly, if you can't afford $15/month, you are in the minority here.  Skip out on a night of drinking.  Skip out on one dinner out a month.  I don't know a single person that can't afford $15/month for a game.  Not one. And I know people who don't make a lot of money and don't get money from their parents.  You're doing something wrong if you can't afford it (or  your priorities should be somewhere other than gaming at the moment).

So you went with both argument 4 and 1?

All those costs can be paid by both models you are correct, I already told you why P2P is at a disadvantage.

 

Please don't sound ignorant. How do you know that is a minority? do you have some data to back it up and even if you do what makes it right to alianate the minority? Of course you don't know anyone who can't pay that sub, because in societies people tend to be around their same age group, wealth group, ect...Again guys, NOT EVERYONE has it as good as you do. Please stop coming here and saying that is money everyone should have, it really makes you sound arrogant and ignorant.

 

i know i dont have good at all...i cannot work at all atm, we have 2 autistic children at home, we re flat broke, everything is tough, but still, if i can allow 20 $ per month for myself to have fun in with all the stuff going lately, hell it'd be on a good mmo.

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  Waldoe

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/27/10
Posts: 622

3/11/13 4:50:19 PM#64
Cheap players and company...get over yourself. $15 a month is nothing even if you are strapped for cash. If you can't afford 50 cents a day to game you have the wrong hobby. These threads are beyond annoying.
  Plastic-Metal

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 423

3/11/13 4:50:22 PM#65
Originally posted by Kuppa

 

Again guys, NOT EVERYONE has it as good as you do. Please stop coming here and saying that is money everyone should have, it really makes you sound arrogant and ignorant.

 

I'm going to apologize before you read the rest, as I don't mean to sound like a jerk... but...

Water, Food, and Shelter are necessities.  Going to Disney Land is a luxury.  Playing an MMO that charges $15, believe it or not, is also a luxury.  I'm sorry, but even when I worked a minimum paying job and did freelance work on the side so I could afford a decent place to live..  I was able to afford a monthly subscription to a video game.

If you can't find $15 in your budget, you're mismanaging your money.. or you need to find a different job.  If it is so tight that you can't find the money, then CU probably isn't the game for you.  There's free alternatives out there.

My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

  Roguewiz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/01/02
Posts: 495

When a Kender says "oops!"; its already too late.

3/11/13 4:54:19 PM#66

Honestly, if a game is going to have a subscription, then it needs to have multiple different types.  You can have your standard "complete access" subcription which would allow 24/7 access and you could have your weekend gamer sub which could be cheaper, but only grant access Fri-Sunday.

There is nothing inherently wrong with subscription other than that fact that games CAN be successful without it (as in actually make money and stay afloat).

Dungeons and Dragons Online comes to mind.  Like the game or hate it, Turbine did something right by allows you to purchase content to allow you to have access to everything without a sub, or allow you to sub and have access to everything.

How I would do it

$14.99 - Standard Sub, 24/7 access, full access to all content

$9.99 - Weekend/Holiday Sub: 24/7 Access ONLY during this time, but full access to all content

FREE - 24/7 Access, but limited to certain content. (which can be purchased through in-game shops, or access granted by friends with full access)

 

IMO of course!

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  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

3/11/13 4:55:27 PM#67
Originally posted by Plastic-Metal
Originally posted by Kuppa

 

Again guys, NOT EVERYONE has it as good as you do. Please stop coming here and saying that is money everyone should have, it really makes you sound arrogant and ignorant.

 

I'm going to apologize before you read the rest, as I don't mean to sound like a jerk... but...

Water, Food, and Shelter are necessities.  Going to Disney Land is a luxury.  Playing an MMO that charges $15, believe it or not, is also a luxury.  I'm sorry, but even when I worked a minimum paying job and did freelance work on the side so I could afford a decent place to live..  I was able to afford a monthly subscription to a video game.

If you can't find $15 in your budget, you're mismanaging your money.. or you need to find a different job.  If it is so tight that you can't find the money, then CU probably isn't the game for you.  There's free alternatives out there.

One more time....It's not me, Im not the one who can't afford. It's not personal against the game. It's stating that "if I can do it, anyone can"....


  morfidon

Novice Member

Joined: 2/19/13
Posts: 245

3/11/13 4:56:55 PM#68
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by morfidon
Originally posted by Kuppa

I don't like monthly fees and it's many horrible arguments, like:

  1. "anyone has that amount of money": That amount of money is clearly not in everyones hand, if you have it great. Give thanks for the fact that you have a well paying job or have parents who give you money or maybe won the lotto, I don't know or care the point is not everyone is on the same boat so please don't boast how "cheap" it is. It just makes you look ignorant.
  2. "kids will come!": The kids that will come are the spoiled brats that can afford a sub.
  3. "It's cheaper than a movie!": Yes, it's cheaper than a movie, an amusement park, a concert, ect... Where this falls flat on its ass is that compared to other games it's more expensive. It's easy to know there is something wrong when folks try to justify the price of something when they have to start compairing it to other things aside from it's direct competition.
  4. "they need that montly income": In this market with so many games that cost much less they will not get that monthly income if players feel like they could be getting more for their money elsewhere. They have to lower the price of admission in order to even get people in the door and after they are in the door they have to blow them away to justify a sub. So it actually hurts to charge a sub even though it sounds good in theory(in this market).

 

1. If someone don't have 15 free dollars per month he shouldn't play games. So not everyone have 1000$ to go for Disney, let everyone go there for free. Wtf ?

2. It's not always like that. I'm almost sure it's different. Most of people i know who played free games like for example tibia had some poblems with law in real life. At least it's from experience.  (it doesn't apply to all of them of course)

3. So go to that other games. We don't want here ppl who want everything for free. Who thinks that everything should be theirs because they exist in world. Because you were born doesn't give you rights to somebody work for free.

4. As I mentioned above. Go somewhere else. They will get more in PvP game from subscription it will be stable and they will focus on game not on thing like items for people who pay.

1. Missed the point completely. Im not saying that if you don't have the money then let them play it anyways. It's the idea that if I have that money everyone else SHOULD also have it. Don't think 15/mo is within reach of everyone.

 

2. ???

 

3 & 4. I'm not complaining about the game, Im debating the business model itself. Don't take it personal with the game, although if you believe a list of ideas on a piece of paper stands to deserve anything then so be it but that's a different problem.

 

1. I didn't also say that 15$ is in reach of everyone. You don't have money. You don't play. You don't work you, you have other real life problems you don't have money and what's more you shouldn't spend your time on games. It's so simple. 15$ might be a lot for some people. But games like that are not for them. They have thousands of free to play games. There they can go.

3&4 What is that problem ? If the ideas on a piece of paper deserve my cash it's good. It's not the problem at all.

  Odaman

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/13
Posts: 195

3/11/13 5:00:12 PM#69
Not going to happen, subsciption fees are already a go my friend and most here agree. There are plenty of free to plays out there for you.
  Raventree

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 455

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3/11/13 5:04:09 PM#70
I am going to throw my hat in with the hordes of people that prefer a subscription-based MMO.  I have never liked the feeling that I am being pestered to pay or being tricked into paying or the whole game is just set up to strangle money out of me through walls, limits, and artificial boredom.  I would much rather just pay a subscription and have the dev put out the best product they can.  If that is not working for the company then they may need to resort to a different plan to bring in new players as a last resort.

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  Searias

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/23/08
Posts: 663

3/11/13 5:07:16 PM#71
Originally posted by Plastic-Metal
Originally posted by Kuppa

 

Again guys, NOT EVERYONE has it as good as you do. Please stop coming here and saying that is money everyone should have, it really makes you sound arrogant and ignorant.

 

I'm going to apologize before you read the rest, as I don't mean to sound like a jerk... but...

Water, Food, and Shelter are necessities.  Going to Disney Land is a luxury.  Playing an MMO that charges $15, believe it or not, is also a luxury.  I'm sorry, but even when I worked a minimum paying job and did freelance work on the side so I could afford a decent place to live..  I was able to afford a monthly subscription to a video game.

If you can't find $15 in your budget, you're mismanaging your money.. or you need to find a different job.  If it is so tight that you can't find the money, then CU probably isn't the game for you.  There's free alternatives out there.

He probably has the money to spend on it, but probably wants someone else to play for his game time instead. That's where a lot of these f2p players come from, they just believe that there is always going to be some guy out there that would spend more money in a cash shop and allow them to play for free. They just don't want to pay money to have fun :P

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  Horusra

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 2091

3/11/13 5:08:44 PM#72

I have not read the rest, but if you want a PvP game and not a shop that is P2W then you pretty much have to be sub.  Otherwise they have to put items in the store you want to buy.  In a PvP game that would be stuff to make you better than someone else.

 

In PvE you can fill the store with fluff and make money...even some speed increase items that do not damage the game as a whole, but unless you can show me items that do not break the game and sell well I do not believe a PvP centeric game can do it.

  Kyleran

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Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18716

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3/11/13 5:22:19 PM#73

The niche market this game is aimed at has no issues with paying regular sub fees (even with an initial box price) if it turns out to deliver the gaming experience they've been looking for.

In fact, some of them probably would pay $20 a month if Mark would throw in a once a day automatic I win kill button that they could use on members of their own realm who pissed them off enough. 

The OP is looking at these games wrong, he is not investing in them, or the characters, he's renting time in the game, much like a cable TV subscription.

Doesn't matter if you've been watching some Showtime feature for years, stop paying the fee and you won't get to watch the program anymore.  Same with MMO's, if you really want access to your characters, pay the toll.

Now, it sounds like they are going to offer tiered subs and that might provide a more limited access for a person like the OP who only perhaps wants to access them on occasion.

I realize that sub games have their share of jerks, but it seems to me that F2P takes a bad situation and just makes it worse, so I'd rather people "invest" in the game by paying the sub fee, whatever it turns out to be.

 

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  grogstorm

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/07
Posts: 280

If it ain't broke, dont fix it!

3/11/13 5:22:35 PM#74

Personally I like the B2P model.  And games that sell cosmetic items like cool looking mounts etc, get more money out of me.

In a perfect world....

What I really woulkd not mind is to see is an MMO clearing house that charges me a subscription and allows me to play any contracted MMO I wish, when I wish.  But this company has to have contracts with a large stabe of games and all of the AAA's.

And after say a 15% administration fee the clearing house would pay the MMO's based on the players who played it.

Grog

  sweetdigs

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/11/03
Posts: 199

3/11/13 5:25:04 PM#75
Originally posted by Kyleran

 

In fact, some of them probably would pay $20 a month if Mark would throw in a once a day automatic I win kill button that they could use on members of their own realm who pissed them off enough. 


 

lol!  Count me in! I'd probably go up to $30/mo just for that alone.

  Smoey

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/25/05
Posts: 548

3/11/13 5:29:24 PM#76

Any PVP game that is 'F2P' will die a horrible death due to cheaters (Look at Planetside2). They will be banned and just create another account. However, if it's a 'B2P' type thing then it offers some deterrence I guess. I'm not saying P2P is a lot better however I'm sure it stops the masses loading up a hack they found on the internet in fear of being banned and having to buy the game again.

(\ /) ?
( . .)
c('')('')

  Wolvan

Novice Member

Joined: 9/12/04
Posts: 49

3/11/13 5:31:42 PM#77

To the OP:

 

Wrong.  If this game ended up being free to play, I wouldn't support the KS or game.  The P2W/F2P model IMO has helped destroy the MMO market which is why we have tons of crappy games to play and very few good.  Heck, I just resubscribed to RIFT to play to keep me entertained for a while.

 

Subscription based is the most level, fair and open access.  If you can't afford a few bucks a month (which if you play a decent amount is PENNIES an hour entertainment) you should be getting a second job, or selling your computer for food money or get rid of your internet, because you obviously aren't trying very hard at life.  (Eh, I'm harsh)

 

Hell, I would be FINE dropping $25 bucks a month on a premium server just to keep the F2P crowd away.  Have to do ID check to verify 25+...sure I could come up with some other requirements.

 

 

  meddyck

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1124

3/11/13 5:42:03 PM#78

This is easily solved by donating enough to kickstarter to earn the lifetime subscription reward (assuming that is one of the tiers which I do assume). As a bonus, you help ensure the game actually gets made at all.

More seriously, CU starts out as a niche game which means retaining players is vitally important. You don't want a lot of people leaving after the first month because they don't want to pay a monthly sub when some overpowered class hasn't been nerfed (or their favorite class HAS been nerfed), their server has imbalanced realm populations, etc. Making the game B2P would be ideal. You would still have the box price to require players to make an investment in the game, but you wouldn't force players to decide from month to month whether to keep subscribing. You could have a cash shop with cosmetic gear skins, extra character slots, more vault slots for crafters, and from time to time there could be xpacs with additional races and classes.

Camelot Unchained Founder
DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  Ehllfhire

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 560

Playing the FFXIV 2.0 Demo

3/11/13 5:44:23 PM#79
Originally posted by Sketchit

Mark Jacobs and City State Entertainment:

Please rethink the archaic idea of requiring people to pay a monthly fee to log on and play the game. We are living in a time where money is tight all around, and there are a lot of gamers that are fed up with the idea of paying for the Box Price of a game, and on top of that, paying a monthly fee every single month in order to login and play a game.

I will take World of Warcraft’s model as an example. I had bought most of the game’s expansions, and paid the monthly fee for the game for several years. I had invested heavily into a character, and spent a lot of time revolved around the game. The sad part is that at the end of the month, you had as much right to play as somebody else who is just starting to play the game. It did not matter if you invested hundreds of dollars into the game – as soon as you stopped forking over cash, you lost ALL access to what you so heavily invested in already.

Many MMORPGers use MMORPGs as a hobby. I know video games are indeed a large hobby of mine. A hobby is something you invest in. Could you imagine any other hobby where if you stopping shelling out money, somebody swooped down and took away everything you had put into it already? I cannot. I do recognize that a business needs money in order to continuously provide a service. This is not a charity, and I understand that completely. Hopefully, however, the developers and other players can understand my reasoning as well. Business models that are not flexible are a thing of the past. I’m not crying for CSE to make Camelot Unchained into a F2P game, but there should be some common ground here.

I have a possible solution to this problem.

  1. A box price with no subscription fee.
  2.  In-Game shop that sells cosmetic items only. Look how successful League of Legends is – and they have no box price whatsoever.
  3. If you want to change to a different realm/server more than once, perhaps also charge as well.
  4. Offer a conversion of gold to In-Game shop currency much like GW2 [but do not do the reverse, as this enables a pay-to-win environment] does to continue to combat Gold Sellers. This allows people to buy stuff from the store without sinking in real-life cash
  5. Any new races that becomes available after the game releases into the in-game shop as well.
  6. Optional in game subscriptions for reduced price for in-game shop currency as well as veteran rewards for long-term subscribers – special cosmetic housing items, ect.

I know people may look at this list and go, “Ewww, I HATE in-game shops. PERIOD!” But, please, look at what you’re gaining. You get consistent access to a game you’ve bought and paid for. You’re still on a equal playing field with everyone else. Gone would be the days of losing that character you played for so long, all because you’re done sinking money you’ve paid for a game ten times over. Please take my suggestions into consideration as you continue planning out the foundation of CU.

If its not going to be sub based, it will end up being P2W. stop trying to ruin games because you are on welfare and cant afford the 15 dollars a month

Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
PS3

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

3/11/13 5:47:10 PM#80
Originally posted by morfidon
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by morfidon
Originally posted by Kuppa

I don't like monthly fees and it's many horrible arguments, like:

  1. "anyone has that amount of money": That amount of money is clearly not in everyones hand, if you have it great. Give thanks for the fact that you have a well paying job or have parents who give you money or maybe won the lotto, I don't know or care the point is not everyone is on the same boat so please don't boast how "cheap" it is. It just makes you look ignorant.
  2. "kids will come!": The kids that will come are the spoiled brats that can afford a sub.
  3. "It's cheaper than a movie!": Yes, it's cheaper than a movie, an amusement park, a concert, ect... Where this falls flat on its ass is that compared to other games it's more expensive. It's easy to know there is something wrong when folks try to justify the price of something when they have to start compairing it to other things aside from it's direct competition.
  4. "they need that montly income": In this market with so many games that cost much less they will not get that monthly income if players feel like they could be getting more for their money elsewhere. They have to lower the price of admission in order to even get people in the door and after they are in the door they have to blow them away to justify a sub. So it actually hurts to charge a sub even though it sounds good in theory(in this market).

 

1. If someone don't have 15 free dollars per month he shouldn't play games. So not everyone have 1000$ to go for Disney, let everyone go there for free. Wtf ?

2. It's not always like that. I'm almost sure it's different. Most of people i know who played free games like for example tibia had some poblems with law in real life. At least it's from experience.  (it doesn't apply to all of them of course)

3. So go to that other games. We don't want here ppl who want everything for free. Who thinks that everything should be theirs because they exist in world. Because you were born doesn't give you rights to somebody work for free.

4. As I mentioned above. Go somewhere else. They will get more in PvP game from subscription it will be stable and they will focus on game not on thing like items for people who pay.

1. Missed the point completely. Im not saying that if you don't have the money then let them play it anyways. It's the idea that if I have that money everyone else SHOULD also have it. Don't think 15/mo is within reach of everyone.

 

2. ???

 

3 & 4. I'm not complaining about the game, Im debating the business model itself. Don't take it personal with the game, although if you believe a list of ideas on a piece of paper stands to deserve anything then so be it but that's a different problem.

 

1. I didn't also say that 15$ is in reach of everyone. You don't have money. You don't play. You don't work you, you have other real life problems you don't have money and what's more you shouldn't spend your time on games. It's so simple. 15$ might be a lot for some people. But games like that are not for them. They have thousands of free to play games. There they can go.

3&4 What is that problem ? If the ideas on a piece of paper deserve my cash it's good. It's not the problem at all.

1. Then you agree with me on saying that a statement like "anyone has that amount of money" is right, why complaint in the first place?

 

3&4. That problem is aside from the original post, it's based on the game nothing to do with business models. But, like I said it's a topic for a nother time.


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