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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » Neverwinter Bombs in Beta

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99 posts found
  Ragnarockk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/13
Posts: 10

 
OP  3/19/13 10:47:19 PM#41
Originally posted by Farstryder

 

To each his own. I played it and was suprised how fun it was.  However imo your arguments are on the weak side for saying a game is a bomb, I thought the combat was awesome. I had no problem with the challenge of healing targets with a cleric whether with a sigil and aoe heal or positioning for a ray or word of healing. The skirmishes plus the open ground  maps,, the the foundry maps, and questing was all extrmemly fun and satisfying. I  partied multiple times and on average 10 x betters than your standard wow , gw2  groups in my experiences it was very friendly and casual. The animation with the wizard were not that bad if you had ever really played d&d  you would know that 8/10 of spells are not only verbal but somatic and they have frequent hand gestures. It just comes down to people always wanting different and when it comes they complain about it just like tsw.. the only bomb here will be as the usual people people who have non existent unnatainable expectations and constant crying, they will never fill that void in gaming for them because they are  unhappy and whine no matter what. I wish I had a dollar for every mmorpg poster who instead fo looking at the the mmos and seeing half glass  full and realizing all the hard work put into games and respecting the games for it's many good qualities they see  miniscule things that are supposedly gamebreaking and a glass almost empty..lol people these days are a joke..honestly  I should'nt be suprised but I always am.

Wow man, are you listening to yourself?  "people are a joke"?  And yet you think you should tell them what to do?  If we're all a joke to you, then we're beneath your concern, aren't we?  And unattainable expectations?  Why is that?  Is it because the game company isn't listening?  Or they are already too invested in a certain path and hate to think what a mess it would be to actually fix the problem?  As for me, I wasn't brokenhearted that a game didn't work out.  I have lots of favorite games I play (psst, here's a secret... WoW isn't one of them).  But this game stood out so far as so bad, this was the right place to say so.  Was I uh, lacking in detail or something? Do you not feel more informed?  the purpose of this forum is info isn't it?

The only person whining here is you, about me.  I was telling other players what I thought of a game, on a forum, which exists for that purpose.  We are sharing information.  You're insulting me for it.  Does it make you feel good?   Well, like you said, to each his own.  Whenever you have info, step up, man.

  Laromuss

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/13/12
Posts: 328

3/19/13 11:02:21 PM#42
Originally posted by Beyorn

The game is very linear but I think the saving grace will be the Foundry (for me anyway).  It is hard to tell for sure from youtube videos but I can’t wait to start making my own adventures.

The only beef I have about the game is the stooooopid holy symbol the clerics are carrying around.  I wish they would add a mace and a small shield for no other reason than for looks ;D.

I think Foundry is one of the main saving "grace", on the other hand and what people are overlooking is the A.I. and complementary Combat mechanics that has made this game very fun.  This is the first game where I will go out of my way to fight mobs instead of avoiding them because the combat is just so much fun to engage in.  

The foundry is going to depend on great user created content while combat is consistent, fun and keeps improving as the player levels in terms of mechanic, enemy A.I,  and mob layering.  What they've gotten correct which is so fundamental in any game especially in an MMO is understanding the difference between Core gameplay and Map Gameplay and how to use both to enhance the game dramatically.  

  Laromuss

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/13/12
Posts: 328

3/19/13 11:05:12 PM#43
Originally posted by Squeak69

ok got to ask this what is the hate for tab targeting, i like tagb targeting cause you know MMOs have this thing called lag which makes the whole action based targeting on LARGE raids and such a extream pain.

i just dont understand what all the hate is, do people fill they need to turn MMORPGs into a shooter or action game, there are plenty of those out there go play them, let MMOs have a interface and system that ACTULLY WORKS.

I hope some of them understand that the game has soft tab targeting.  As long as you're within the area of the hit box,  projectiles will hit the enemy which I enjoy a lot more than a pure twitch based game that can be an utter failure if the lag cannot be controlled.  *cough cough Tera Nexus.  

  Ragnarockk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/13
Posts: 10

 
OP  3/19/13 11:15:50 PM#44

Oh something else that struck me as odd.  Having to explain over and over again to people that no we're not an open group right now, that no we're nowhere near the entrance of the zone and no we're not coming back for them right now. 

You see, they have this thing called "open groups" in this game.  Anybody can just join your group without asking.  Unless you specifically close your group.  So you're halfway done a zone, and somebody pops in and starts following you, mobs pop on them, and they die, then they ask you if you'll come back for them...  they never asked to join in the first place.  Because it was beta, most of the time, if we're close to the beginning, it wasn't an issue, hey, the more the merrier.  But it was such a pain when people who were nowhere nearby or not even in the right instance would just appear in your group list.  Then ask "where are you guys?" after trying to find you. 

I'm not sure how I feel about that yet.  On one hand it breaks the ice, on the other, I wonder if it's exploitable.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4749

3/19/13 11:18:16 PM#45
Originally posted by Laross
Originally posted by Squeak69

ok got to ask this what is the hate for tab targeting, i like tagb targeting cause you know MMOs have this thing called lag which makes the whole action based targeting on LARGE raids and such a extream pain.

i just dont understand what all the hate is, do people fill they need to turn MMORPGs into a shooter or action game, there are plenty of those out there go play them, let MMOs have a interface and system that ACTULLY WORKS.

I hope some of them understand that the game has soft tab targeting.  As long as you're within the area of the hit box,  projectiles will hit the enemy which I enjoy a lot more than a pure twitch based game that can be an utter failure if the lag cannot be controlled.  *cough cough Tera Nexus.  

Funny thing is, Tera is also soft targetted. A lot of fans like to pretend that it's not, but if you test the retical system you will hit provided you get the area approximately correct.

Pretty much all MMOs have to be this way (to some degree) to deal w/ performance issues. Even games like PS2 have this, though it's much more hidden than other games.

I never understood where all the elitism over targetting mechanics came from, as the difference between targetting mechanics in most of these action-combat games is minimal -to- non existant.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4749

3/19/13 11:20:28 PM#46
Originally posted by Ragnarockk

Oh something else that struck me as odd.  Having to explain over and over again to people that no we're not an open group right now, that no we're nowhere near the entrance of the zone and no we're not coming back for them right now. 

You see, they have this thing called "open groups" in this game.  Anybody can just join your group without asking.  Unless you specifically close your group.  So you're halfway done a zone, and somebody pops in and starts following you, mobs pop on them, and they die, then they ask you if you'll come back for them...  they never asked to join in the first place.  Because it was beta, most of the time, if we're close to the beginning, it wasn't an issue, hey, the more the merrier.  But it was such a pain when people who were nowhere nearby or not even in the right instance would just appear in your group list.  Then ask "where are you guys?" after trying to find you. 

I'm not sure how I feel about that yet.  On one hand it breaks the ice, on the other, I wonder if it's exploitable.

Haven't had a chance to test it yet (will be in the next beta), but open grouping generally isn't that big of a deal. It's even a good thing when you're on the other end of it (trying to do a dungeon that noone wants to do atm). The simple solution sounds to be just close your group once you start the dungeon. I'd imagine that's not all that difficult to do?

  Laromuss

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/13/12
Posts: 328

3/19/13 11:22:28 PM#47
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Laross
Originally posted by Squeak69

ok got to ask this what is the hate for tab targeting, i like tagb targeting cause you know MMOs have this thing called lag which makes the whole action based targeting on LARGE raids and such a extream pain.

i just dont understand what all the hate is, do people fill they need to turn MMORPGs into a shooter or action game, there are plenty of those out there go play them, let MMOs have a interface and system that ACTULLY WORKS.

I hope some of them understand that the game has soft tab targeting.  As long as you're within the area of the hit box,  projectiles will hit the enemy which I enjoy a lot more than a pure twitch based game that can be an utter failure if the lag cannot be controlled.  *cough cough Tera Nexus.  

Funny thing is, Tera is also soft targetted. A lot of fans like to pretend that it's not, but if you test the retical system you will hit provided you get the area approximately correct.

Pretty much all MMOs have to be this way (to some degree) to deal w/ performance issues. Even games like PS2 have this, though it's much more hidden than other games.

I never understood where all the elitism over targetting mechanics came from, as the difference between targetting mechanics in most of these action-combat games is minimal -to- non existant.

though in Neverwinter if you have them targeted once, you can hold down the button and it will auto aim within a certain angle and also aim assist your mouse a bit to center on the mob.  Its pretty much tab targetting but they have removed the tab button and replaced it with your mouse aim instead but require you to keep aiming within a certain area to keep the target in tab target mode.  

I agree I don't understand the elitism either, both have its benefits and disadvantages and should be used according to if it makes the game more enjoyable, enhances the mechanics and also fits within the context of the overal design of the game. 

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4749

3/19/13 11:26:47 PM#48
Originally posted by Laross

though in Neverwinter if you have them targeted once, you can hold down the button and it will auto aim within a certain angle and also aim assist your mouse a bit to center on the mob.  Its pretty much tab targetting but they have removed the tab button and replaced it with your mouse aim instead but require you to keep aiming within a certain area to keep the target in tab target mode.

Certain skills in TERA do this exact same thing. They basically become homing missles. Furthermore some of the attacks will appear to fire directly at your cursor, but if people say 'walk into it' after it's fired, they don't get hit, but people who were already under the cursor at the time will.

I wouldn't be surprised if TERA does a better job at hiding it, but little things like that give you a peak as to what's actually happening under the hood.

  JDogg126

Novice Member

Joined: 8/16/08
Posts: 44

You've ruined your own lands, you'll not ruin mine!

3/19/13 11:26:54 PM#49

Just few words to the OP.

At some point the genre needs to offer something different.  It's not necessary that every single MMO have 10 action bars, hundreds of key bindable macros, unit frames for focus/target of target units, etc.  I'm sure it's tragedy that there is no ct_bossmod addon to tell everyone in a group when to GTFO and when to stop attacking too.  That doesn't mean that it's not going to be possible to organize a large group though.  It just means things will need to be done differently.  A long time ago before there was all the wacky automation and fancy pants unit frames there were MMO's with 80+ person raids and they organized just fine.  The key is adapting to the mechanics of the game as players have been doing since the 90's.

The bulk of the OP is subjective opinion used to pan the game which is fine however it's pretty presumptuous to discount the opinions of others as "unqualified" just because you see things differently.  There is no inherent right or wrong.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4749

3/19/13 11:30:52 PM#50
Originally posted by JDogg126

Just few words to the OP.

At some point the genre needs to offer something different.  It's not necessary that every single MMO have 10 action bars, hundreds of key bindable macros, unit frames for focus/target of target units, etc.  I'm sure it's tragedy that there is no ct_bossmod addon to tell everyone in a group when to GTFO and when to stop attacking too.  That doesn't mean that it's not going to be possible to organize a large group though.  It just means things will need to be done differently.  A long time ago before there was all the wacky automation and fancy pants unit frames there were MMO's with 80+ person raids and they organized just fine.  The key is adapting to the mechanics of the game as players have been doing since the 90's.

The bulk of the OP is subjective opinion used to pan the game which is fine however it's pretty presumptuous to discount the opinions of others as "unqualified" just because you see things differently.  There is no inherent right or wrong.

Just to add to that, a lot of what the OP seems to be griping on are features that even the first D&DO never had to begin with. Based on what I've seen so far, Neverwinter is keeping much more true to the first DDO (though I could be wrong). They even have player driven side missions you can do.

It certainly doesn't look like that MMO to replace all MMOs, but for what it is, so far it doesn't look bad at all.

  JDogg126

Novice Member

Joined: 8/16/08
Posts: 44

You've ruined your own lands, you'll not ruin mine!

3/19/13 11:38:31 PM#51
Originally posted by Ragnarockk

The only person whining here is you, about me.  I was telling other players what I thought of a game, on a forum, which exists for that purpose.  We are sharing information.  You're insulting me for it.  Does it make you feel good?   Well, like you said, to each his own.  Whenever you have info, step up, man.

In fairness the OP came off as an esoteric dissertation on the critical flaws of the game that will doom it to failure as if there was some authoritative source to actually judge such things by.

  JimmyYO

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/11
Posts: 541

3/19/13 11:41:00 PM#52
This game is literally closer to Hello Kitty Island then Neverwinter or D&D any edition.
  Ragnarockk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/13
Posts: 10

 
OP  3/19/13 11:41:57 PM#53
Originally posted by Claes

Interesting post, thanks for posting. Point 1 and 4 is the same reason though, you just formulated it differently.

Point 2 is definetely a bug, and should be fixed. Getting stuck is never acceptable.

Point 3 about lacking content is understandable, this is a beta, right?

I wasn't going to play this game, but after reading this, I might give it a try! Especially the part you said about tab-targeting, which I've always hated. It's way too noob-friendly. Perhaps neverwinter might offer a more challenging solution. I'm sick and tired of auto-aim targeting MMO's.

This game sounds cool, and I haven't even read up on it. Thanks for pointing me in that direction.

Point 1 is about combat, Point 4 is about game design (look and feel, the dialog of the NPCs). 

They only plan to have one more beta weekend before launch, I think what you see now is pretty much what you'll get.  I mean, unless they do plan to make major changes.  I kind of doubt it though.  They don't plan to even test crafting before the game comes out.  At least from what I've been told.  I hope they change their mind about that. 

Agreed about getting stuck.  I can't imagine why they'd design a game that you'd need an item like a transport scroll (buyable with astral diamonds - read, real money) to get you out of it.  Unless they plan to make bugs to force you to pay for the f2p game, I've never heard of such a thing, have you?  I'm sure they're too honorable to pull such a stunt.

The rewards for PVP seem quite, rewarding.  I think that's the direction they're really shooting for.  It's really Champions with a Forgotten Realms skin.  Not very exciting to me, but if you're into that....  The foundry does seem to be its shining glory.  We'll see what happens when players have a chance to use it.  So far, only developers have had a chance to use those tools.  Post your experiences and tell us what you liked.

For everyone who likes the game or is all interested now, this weekend is the next and last beta, so watch Twitter or buy your way in.  I have nothing against it.  If you can stomach it after all I've said, then it's for you.

  Cryptor

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 454

3/19/13 11:50:43 PM#54
It's linear fun :)  I like it with all of its flaws.  It is what it is, not bad for free to play and free to download

Check us out http://www.SinisterSavant.com

  Ragnarockk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/13
Posts: 10

 
OP  3/20/13 12:02:45 AM#55
Originally posted by JDogg126

Just few words to the OP.

At some point the genre needs to offer something different.  It's not necessary that every single MMO have 10 action bars, hundreds of key bindable macros, unit frames for focus/target of target units, etc.  I'm sure it's tragedy that there is no ct_bossmod addon to tell everyone in a group when to GTFO and when to stop attacking too.  That doesn't mean that it's not going to be possible to organize a large group though.  It just means things will need to be done differently.  A long time ago before there was all the wacky automation and fancy pants unit frames there were MMO's with 80+ person raids and they organized just fine.  The key is adapting to the mechanics of the game as players have been doing since the 90's.

The bulk of the OP is subjective opinion used to pan the game which is fine however it's pretty presumptuous to discount the opinions of others as "unqualified" just because you see things differently.  There is no inherent right or wrong.

OK, I'm not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but the OP is me, and you just said something about my saying somebody is "unqualified"?  who was it?  I want to apologize to them.  I don't call people unqualified, I mean, it's late here, and I might have goofed but, I'm not a flamer or a troll.  So if you're going to say I called somebody "unqualified", then before I apologize, I want a direct quote, please.

I've also never been in a raid larger than 24, I don't play WoW, and I have no idea how anyone here got any of those ideas about me just because I prefer to tab target.  I'm not the only one in this thread to say that tab targeting is better for performance reasons, either.   That part is simple mechanical fact.  The fact that I prefer tab targeting is opinion which is not subject to inherent right or wrong, as you say.  Careful about conclusion jumping. 

  Ragnarockk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/13
Posts: 10

 
OP  3/20/13 12:13:01 AM#56
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Ragnarockk

Oh something else that struck me as odd.  Having to explain over and over again to people that no we're not an open group right now, that no we're nowhere near the entrance of the zone and no we're not coming back for them right now. 

You see, they have this thing called "open groups" in this game.  Anybody can just join your group without asking.  Unless you specifically close your group.  So you're halfway done a zone, and somebody pops in and starts following you, mobs pop on them, and they die, then they ask you if you'll come back for them...  they never asked to join in the first place.  Because it was beta, most of the time, if we're close to the beginning, it wasn't an issue, hey, the more the merrier.  But it was such a pain when people who were nowhere nearby or not even in the right instance would just appear in your group list.  Then ask "where are you guys?" after trying to find you. 

I'm not sure how I feel about that yet.  On one hand it breaks the ice, on the other, I wonder if it's exploitable.

Haven't had a chance to test it yet (will be in the next beta), but open grouping generally isn't that big of a deal. It's even a good thing when you're on the other end of it (trying to do a dungeon that noone wants to do atm). The simple solution sounds to be just close your group once you start the dungeon. I'd imagine that's not all that difficult to do?

Not hard, from what I remember, it was tricky to find the first time, and only the team leader could do it, so if you're on the run and forget, you might check on the setting and remind your TL if you see your group is open, esp before you loot.  I honestly don't know if looting is zone wide.  I'm getting fuzzy on the details now, I think it was zone wide, but that might change to where you'd have to be within a certain distance. 

Actually that might have a disadvantage too, because if you did close your group and somebody died on the boss fight, and somebody clicks the loot, the person who's "out of range" might not get a loot roll.  So IDK what would be best. 

  Boreas

Novice Member

Joined: 10/01/04
Posts: 24

3/20/13 6:14:54 AM#57
Originally posted by Monstre0auS

4. B) Cryptic and WotC have actually worked hand in hand with this game to ensure that it's lore, as well as the details of characters, skills etc, are in-fact very close if not identical to what you'd find in 4ed D&D, so that argument is false. A) I don't see how this setting is not fantasy. If you can point out a single article in game that would be of another setting, modern reality, sci-fi, horror, etc, then please do. If you cannot, then yes, this game is in fact fantasy based. C) Addressed in point 1. I believe.

I can't speak to cooperation between Cryptic and WotC, but Neverwinter has no more than a veneer of D&D 4e. Some of the same terminology is used, but in nearly all cases, those terms mean something different in Neverwinter than they do in 4e.

The setting is Forgotton Realms, so in that sense the lore is D&D.

  Burntvet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2745

3/20/13 10:12:08 AM#58
Originally posted by Allacore69

[mod edit]

 

That's pretty funny, considering this game is aimed directly at the "younger demographic", because almost anyone who has ever played any P+P DnD is going to think this game stinks, and anyone who played any of the older full featured MMOs is going to think this game stinks. So who does that leave? The same "kids" you seem to be criticizing (since the newer generation of gamers seems to have no problem paying "more for less game").
  Terranah

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 3616

3/20/13 10:19:12 AM#59

The game has to be released and then it may improve or not.  Time will tell.  You pointed out some things that could be improved, but I'm not getting excited until after release.  Let's just see what happens.

 

The Foundry is a great idea I've seen implemented in other games.  That alone peeks my interest.

  koboldfodder

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 367

3/20/13 10:27:13 AM#60

The game will fail.  No doubt.  It has nothing to do with D&D, everyone who plays 10 minutes of it knows that.  Guilw Wars 2 is a better version of this game, has a lot more open zones and is free and will have more people playing it.  Why play this game when another game out there does everything better?

 

People who are D&D creator fanatics will not play this game.  The one thing about the foundry is this:  You actually need to have good people creating missions and such.  If you played COH you know exactly what is going to happen.  For every one decent mission, there will be 100s of farm type of missions.

 

This is just another of the same type of MMO that has been released for the past 7 years.  If this game came out before Guild Wars 2, then sure, it would be a big hit.  But GW2 has already soaked up the numbers for that type of game, and it is a B2P game, not a sketchy F2P game like NO.

 

This game will hold your attention for a couple of months.  If that is what you were looking for, well there you go.

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