Originally posted by DancingQueen

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by DancingQueen

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by DancingQueen

 

Nope... they need to be shuffled back to their third person shooters pronto because they are just ruining it for the rest of us. 

What make you more superior? May be you are ruining it for them and you are the one who should leave.

They really don't belong in the MMORPG space and should stay in the FPS space or TPS as it is these days.

TPS = Third Person Shooter

 Why don't they belong here?   They are customers just like you, and developers are actively courting them.  Sounds to me like they do belong but you just have different ideas on what an MMO means. 

I said MMORPG... those last three letters actually meant something once upon a time.

Those last three letters have almost always just meant progression, which can come in many many forms.

Originally posted by DancingQueen

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by DancingQueen

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by DancingQueen

 

Nope... they need to be shuffled back to their third person shooters pronto because they are just ruining it for the rest of us. 

What make you more superior? May be you are ruining it for them and you are the one who should leave.

They really don't belong in the MMORPG space and should stay in the FPS space or TPS as it is these days.

TPS = Third Person Shooter

 Why don't they belong here?   They are customers just like you, and developers are actively courting them.  Sounds to me like they do belong but you just have different ideas on what an MMO means. 

I said MMORPG... those last three letters actually meant something once upon a time.

Yes, but what did they actually mean?

"Role playing" like an improv actor, taking on the character of someone from within the game's setting concepts, and staying within the role of that character?

"Role playing" in the sense of metagamey mechanical roles (tank&spank or other)?

'Role playing' in the sense of 'stats on character progress over time'?

I've seen all three bandied about, sometimes individually or in combination with each other.  And none of them are actually exclusive to either the FPS or TPS approach, not even the last one.  (It just needs to be a relatively mild or asymptotic progression-curve, rather than the more common exponential curves)

And as much as I favor the first one and have a growing distaste for the second myself, all three have always had valid justifications.

Originally posted by DancingQueen

I said MMORPG... those last three letters actually meant something once upon a time.

The only thing they ever meant was progression in a game, they were tacked onto game descriptions many years ago hoping to draw in people who played PnP RPGs, but there's really no such thing as a real roleplaying game on a computer, it's just an invented genre and like all genres, it changes and evolves over time.

Originally posted by KaosProphet

Originally posted by DancingQueen

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by DancingQueen

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by DancingQueen

 

Nope... they need to be shuffled back to their third person shooters pronto because they are just ruining it for the rest of us. 

What make you more superior? May be you are ruining it for them and you are the one who should leave.

They really don't belong in the MMORPG space and should stay in the FPS space or TPS as it is these days.

TPS = Third Person Shooter

 Why don't they belong here?   They are customers just like you, and developers are actively courting them.  Sounds to me like they do belong but you just have different ideas on what an MMO means. 

I said MMORPG... those last three letters actually meant something once upon a time.

Yes, but what did they actually mean?

"Role playing" like an improv actor, taking on the character of someone from within the game's setting concepts, and staying within the role of that character?

"Role playing" in the sense of metagamey mechanical roles (tank&spank or other)?

'Role playing' in the sense of 'stats on character progress over time'?

I've seen all three bandied about, sometimes individually or in combination with each other.  And none of them are actually exclusive to either the FPS or TPS approach, not even the last one.  (It just needs to be a relatively mild or asymptotic progression-curve, rather than the more common exponential curves)

 

And as much as I favor the first one and have a growing distaste for the second myself, all three have always had valid justifications.

Yeah it's the first one... or at least try to immerse yourself into the world of the game and just not play as some stats whore min maxing 24/7 and complaining that the game is not as his third person shooter games on his Xbox 360.

Originally posted by DancingQueen

Originally posted by KaosProphet

Originally posted by DancingQueen

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by DancingQueen

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by DancingQueen

 

Nope... they need to be shuffled back to their third person shooters pronto because they are just ruining it for the rest of us. 

What make you more superior? May be you are ruining it for them and you are the one who should leave.

They really don't belong in the MMORPG space and should stay in the FPS space or TPS as it is these days.

TPS = Third Person Shooter

 Why don't they belong here?   They are customers just like you, and developers are actively courting them.  Sounds to me like they do belong but you just have different ideas on what an MMO means. 

I said MMORPG... those last three letters actually meant something once upon a time.

Yes, but what did they actually mean?

"Role playing" like an improv actor, taking on the character of someone from within the game's setting concepts, and staying within the role of that character?

"Role playing" in the sense of metagamey mechanical roles (tank&spank or other)?

'Role playing' in the sense of 'stats on character progress over time'?

I've seen all three bandied about, sometimes individually or in combination with each other.  And none of them are actually exclusive to either the FPS or TPS approach, not even the last one.  (It just needs to be a relatively mild or asymptotic progression-curve, rather than the more common exponential curves)

 

And as much as I favor the first one and have a growing distaste for the second myself, all three have always had valid justifications.

Yeah it's the first one... or at least try to immerse yourself into the world of the game and just not play as some stats whore min maxing 24/7 and complaining that the game is not as his third person shooter games on his Xbox 360.

You could do that in a tps just as easily as you can in EQ, WoW, UO... 

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by DancingQueen

Originally posted by KaosProphet

Originally posted by DancingQueen

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by DancingQueen

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by DancingQueen

 

Nope... they need to be shuffled back to their third person shooters pronto because they are just ruining it for the rest of us. 

What make you more superior? May be you are ruining it for them and you are the one who should leave.

They really don't belong in the MMORPG space and should stay in the FPS space or TPS as it is these days.

TPS = Third Person Shooter

 Why don't they belong here?   They are customers just like you, and developers are actively courting them.  Sounds to me like they do belong but you just have different ideas on what an MMO means. 

I said MMORPG... those last three letters actually meant something once upon a time.

Yes, but what did they actually mean?

"Role playing" like an improv actor, taking on the character of someone from within the game's setting concepts, and staying within the role of that character?

"Role playing" in the sense of metagamey mechanical roles (tank&spank or other)?

'Role playing' in the sense of 'stats on character progress over time'?

I've seen all three bandied about, sometimes individually or in combination with each other.  And none of them are actually exclusive to either the FPS or TPS approach, not even the last one.  (It just needs to be a relatively mild or asymptotic progression-curve, rather than the more common exponential curves)

 

And as much as I favor the first one and have a growing distaste for the second myself, all three have always had valid justifications.

Yeah it's the first one... or at least try to immerse yourself into the world of the game and just not play as some stats whore min maxing 24/7 and complaining that the game is not as his third person shooter games on his Xbox 360.

You could do that in a tps just as easily as you can in EQ, WoW, UO... 

I seriously doubt that the tweens playing COD or whatever actually roleplays as some hardass soldier while playing with other people. 

Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek

Originally posted by CalmOceans

Originally posted by WhiteLantern
Really? I get the exact opposite feeling from these boards.

I think this board represents a vocal minority.

Absolutely.

 

Most people play whatever game interests them and they keep their mouth shut about it.

Unhappy people come here to complain because they have a need to infect other people with their unhappiness.

OCD people come here to start fights because, well...that's what OCD people do.

Teens (physically and mentally) come here to try and shock people with their words, mainly because their parents never really gave a shit when they tried to shock them with 666 tattooed on their foreheads and Aleister Crowley books strewn about their rooms. You can tell those people by their handles.

It all boils down to the fact that gaming forums are the trailer parks and meth houses of the genre.

It is fun watching (and sometimes pushing along) the train-wreck, however. :P

Which of those categories do you fall under?

Originally posted by dave6660

Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek

Originally posted by CalmOceans

Originally posted by WhiteLantern
Really? I get the exact opposite feeling from these boards.

I think this board represents a vocal minority.

Absolutely.

 

Most people play whatever game interests them and they keep their mouth shut about it.

Unhappy people come here to complain because they have a need to infect other people with their unhappiness.

OCD people come here to start fights because, well...that's what OCD people do.

Teens (physically and mentally) come here to try and shock people with their words, mainly because their parents never really gave a shit when they tried to shock them with 666 tattooed on their foreheads and Aleister Crowley books strewn about their rooms. You can tell those people by their handles.

It all boils down to the fact that gaming forums are the trailer parks and meth houses of the genre.

It is fun watching (and sometimes pushing along) the train-wreck, however. :P

Which of those categories do you fall under?

Well according to my handle I should be typeing this in a darkened room with Joy Division and Nirvana gently caressing my emo depressive psyche and manically depressed teenage brain,while pictures of  long dead stars that succumb to suicide adorn my black pit that only satan would dream of to taint my black soul and propel me into  the darkest deepest pit of human meloncholy.

Err yeah right WTF ?

Originally posted by DancingQueen

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by DancingQueen

Originally posted by KaosProphet

Originally posted by DancingQueen

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by DancingQueen

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by DancingQueen

 

Nope... they need to be shuffled back to their third person shooters pronto because they are just ruining it for the rest of us. 

What make you more superior? May be you are ruining it for them and you are the one who should leave.

They really don't belong in the MMORPG space and should stay in the FPS space or TPS as it is these days.

TPS = Third Person Shooter

 Why don't they belong here?   They are customers just like you, and developers are actively courting them.  Sounds to me like they do belong but you just have different ideas on what an MMO means. 

I said MMORPG... those last three letters actually meant something once upon a time.

Yes, but what did they actually mean?

"Role playing" like an improv actor, taking on the character of someone from within the game's setting concepts, and staying within the role of that character?

"Role playing" in the sense of metagamey mechanical roles (tank&spank or other)?

'Role playing' in the sense of 'stats on character progress over time'?

I've seen all three bandied about, sometimes individually or in combination with each other.  And none of them are actually exclusive to either the FPS or TPS approach, not even the last one.  (It just needs to be a relatively mild or asymptotic progression-curve, rather than the more common exponential curves)

 

And as much as I favor the first one and have a growing distaste for the second myself, all three have always had valid justifications.

Yeah it's the first one... or at least try to immerse yourself into the world of the game and just not play as some stats whore min maxing 24/7 and complaining that the game is not as his third person shooter games on his Xbox 360.

You could do that in a tps just as easily as you can in EQ, WoW, UO... 

I seriously doubt that the tweens playing COD or whatever actually roleplays as some hardass soldier while playing with other people. 

Maybe not hardass soldiers, but a lot of them seem to be roleplaying as hardass gangstas.

Which, in all fairness, is what the bulk of UO and WoW players were doing as well.  (Can't speak for EQ, but I can't imagine it was all that different.)

Also: in my own experience,  the stats-whores who min-max 24/7 aren't the ones complaining that the game isn't more 3rd-person-shooterish.   They're the ones most strenuously objecting to anything that would make their stats-whoring less relevant... like adding in more twitch (shooter) elements.

Originally posted by DancingQueen

I seriously doubt that the tweens playing COD or whatever actually roleplays as some hardass soldier while playing with other people. 

99.99999% of people playing MMOs don't roleplay at all, they do exactly what people do in COD, they play a game.  Are you telling us that 99.999999% of the people playing MMOs should go do something else?  That's a good way to doom the genre entirely.

Originally posted by KaosProphet

Originally posted by DancingQueen

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by DancingQueen

Originally posted by KaosProphet

Originally posted by DancingQueen

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by DancingQueen

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by DancingQueen

 

Nope... they need to be shuffled back to their third person shooters pronto because they are just ruining it for the rest of us. 

What make you more superior? May be you are ruining it for them and you are the one who should leave.

They really don't belong in the MMORPG space and should stay in the FPS space or TPS as it is these days.

TPS = Third Person Shooter

 Why don't they belong here?   They are customers just like you, and developers are actively courting them.  Sounds to me like they do belong but you just have different ideas on what an MMO means. 

I said MMORPG... those last three letters actually meant something once upon a time.

Yes, but what did they actually mean?

"Role playing" like an improv actor, taking on the character of someone from within the game's setting concepts, and staying within the role of that character?

"Role playing" in the sense of metagamey mechanical roles (tank&spank or other)?

'Role playing' in the sense of 'stats on character progress over time'?

I've seen all three bandied about, sometimes individually or in combination with each other.  And none of them are actually exclusive to either the FPS or TPS approach, not even the last one.  (It just needs to be a relatively mild or asymptotic progression-curve, rather than the more common exponential curves)

 

And as much as I favor the first one and have a growing distaste for the second myself, all three have always had valid justifications.

Yeah it's the first one... or at least try to immerse yourself into the world of the game and just not play as some stats whore min maxing 24/7 and complaining that the game is not as his third person shooter games on his Xbox 360.

You could do that in a tps just as easily as you can in EQ, WoW, UO... 

I seriously doubt that the tweens playing COD or whatever actually roleplays as some hardass soldier while playing with other people. 

Maybe not hardass soldiers, but a lot of them seem to be roleplaying as hardass gangstas.

Which, in all fairness, is what the bulk of UO and WoW players were doing as well.  (Can't speak for EQ, but I can't imagine it was all that different.)

Also: in my own experience,  the stats-whores who min-max 24/7 aren't the ones complaining that the game isn't more 3rd-person-shooterish.   They're the ones most strenuously objecting to anything that would make their stats-whoring less relevant... like adding in more twitch (shooter) elements.

There were RP servers in EQ. But I saw and even participated in RPing on non-RP servers too. There was a lot of RPing in EQ.

I am not huge on RPing...probably because most MMORPG's these days don't have that feel to allow for it, nor the communites (If you want to even call them that) that let you get into it. Most players these days just seem to be looking to outdo each other and get there first and could care less about imagination, creativity, and a different type of fun beyond competition/PvP. Meh...different times.

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

When I read the forums, I get this feeling from the majority posters: "I want to play an MMORPG, but..."

"...I don't want a massive world that takes forever and a day to traverse."
"...I don't want to stand there swinging my sword."
"...I want my heavily armored warrior to be able to do acrobatics in full plate."
"...I want mini-games galore, for almost everything I do."
"...I want to click a button and be instantly transported to the dungeon I just threw my name onto a list for."
"...I want massive amounts of instancing so that I feel like what I do affects the world."
"...I want massive instancing so that I don't have to worry about other players spoiling my gaming experience."
"...I want to be able to turn off chat."
"...I want to be told a story where my character saves the universe."
"...I want to be able to jump online for the 15-30 minutes I have free and gain something useful."
"...I don't want downtime where I feel like I have to converse with others. I have friends IRL, thank you."

All I can ask is, Do these players really want to play MMORPGs?

Find me someone who had all those requirements :-)

Each person has his personal taste but nobody requires all what you said. But most people would agree with one or two those things.

Originally posted by ClaudeSuamOram

Originally posted by KaosProphet

Originally posted by DancingQueen

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by DancingQueen

Originally posted by KaosProphet

Originally posted by DancingQueen

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by DancingQueen

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by DancingQueen

 

Nope... they need to be shuffled back to their third person shooters pronto because they are just ruining it for the rest of us. 

What make you more superior? May be you are ruining it for them and you are the one who should leave.

They really don't belong in the MMORPG space and should stay in the FPS space or TPS as it is these days.

TPS = Third Person Shooter

 Why don't they belong here?   They are customers just like you, and developers are actively courting them.  Sounds to me like they do belong but you just have different ideas on what an MMO means. 

I said MMORPG... those last three letters actually meant something once upon a time.

Yes, but what did they actually mean?

"Role playing" like an improv actor, taking on the character of someone from within the game's setting concepts, and staying within the role of that character?

"Role playing" in the sense of metagamey mechanical roles (tank&spank or other)?

'Role playing' in the sense of 'stats on character progress over time'?

I've seen all three bandied about, sometimes individually or in combination with each other.  And none of them are actually exclusive to either the FPS or TPS approach, not even the last one.  (It just needs to be a relatively mild or asymptotic progression-curve, rather than the more common exponential curves)

 

And as much as I favor the first one and have a growing distaste for the second myself, all three have always had valid justifications.

Yeah it's the first one... or at least try to immerse yourself into the world of the game and just not play as some stats whore min maxing 24/7 and complaining that the game is not as his third person shooter games on his Xbox 360.

You could do that in a tps just as easily as you can in EQ, WoW, UO... 

I seriously doubt that the tweens playing COD or whatever actually roleplays as some hardass soldier while playing with other people. 

Maybe not hardass soldiers, but a lot of them seem to be roleplaying as hardass gangstas.

Which, in all fairness, is what the bulk of UO and WoW players were doing as well.  (Can't speak for EQ, but I can't imagine it was all that different.)

Also: in my own experience,  the stats-whores who min-max 24/7 aren't the ones complaining that the game isn't more 3rd-person-shooterish.   They're the ones most strenuously objecting to anything that would make their stats-whoring less relevant... like adding in more twitch (shooter) elements.

There were RP servers in EQ. But I saw and even participated in RPing on non-RP servers too. There was a lot of RPing in EQ.

 

Oh, I'm not saying they didn't exist.  But dd you notice how it's "RP servers" for the RPers instead of just assuming RP by default and making "Gamist Servers" or something for those who don't do RP?

Well, I started with AC1 back in the day. I must have been about 18 back then. I loved it... because I had the time to play that sort of thing. Weekdays would be spent grinding an Olthoi nest for hours, weekends would be spent  standing in the town and trading for hours on end. Nowadays though, I could never play a game like AC1 or EQ1. I have far too many other things to be getting on with in RL. Looking back, although i know a really enjoyed it at the time.. I sure did spend a lot of time grinding out stupid shit. I mean.. my primary entertainment consisted of running around the same dungeon for hours just to get one level and then do it all again until I moved onto the next one. People complain about running dungeons and raids in games like WoW.. but the repetition is nothing like it was in the old days; it's waaay better now. In EQ1 you'd be 'camping' kobolds for hours just to get a level, then some moron would drag a train your way, get you killed and lose about 1-2 hours worth of grinding. I mean, come on, is that really more fun than what we have today? The way some MMOs are these days suits me; the auction houses, the dungeon finders, etc. Say what you want about the old ways... but to me it's just a long road to a short reward. I'm glad things have changed because if they hadn't I wouldn't be able to put up with these games anymore.

Those old games are still there. If there were people out there that really wanted that sort of thing.. they'd be happy with AC1, Ultima and EQ1 still... not asking for another game. There's a reason they want a new game.. because they are fed up of the old one. Asking for the same thing again is not going to fix their problem. I can fully understand why people want the more convenient things in their MMOs and it's because they want to be able to have a real life, not a virtual one. Not wanting to spend hours upon hours grinding out stupid shit for the sake of it and living in a virtual world more than the real world isn't something dumb, immature kiddies want.. it's something rational people who have their priorities straight want.

Originally posted by Cephus404

Originally posted by DancingQueen

I seriously doubt that the tweens playing COD or whatever actually roleplays as some hardass soldier while playing with other people. 

99.99999% of people playing MMOs don't roleplay at all, they do exactly what people do in COD, they play a game.  Are you telling us that 99.999999% of the people playing MMOs should go do something else?  That's a good way to doom the genre entirely.

I have been playing MMO since the time before UO. I have yet to meet anyone who is RPing, and in-character all the time.

The norm is chatting about your kids, your family, and RL stuff while waiting for a dungeon. There is also nothing wrong with that. Some social fun, and then some killing monster fun ... not a bad way to use entertainment products.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Cephus404

Originally posted by DancingQueen

I seriously doubt that the tweens playing COD or whatever actually roleplays as some hardass soldier while playing with other people. 

99.99999% of people playing MMOs don't roleplay at all, they do exactly what people do in COD, they play a game.  Are you telling us that 99.999999% of the people playing MMOs should go do something else?  That's a good way to doom the genre entirely.

I have been playing MMO since the time before UO. I have yet to meet anyone who is RPing, and in-character all the time.

The norm is chatting about your kids, your family, and RL stuff while waiting for a dungeon. There is also nothing wrong with that. Some social fun, and then some killing monster fun ... not a bad way to use entertainment products.

Ah, then you never played against the Shadowclan, who have been in MMO's in one form or another since UO.  All role playing, all the time, with no exceptions, at least back in the day.  (not sure how well it's held up in this era of voice chat)

We were never permitted to speak in an open channel out of context, and even more we had to use a special "language" that restricted the use of certain characters of the alphabet (no "C's" and "E's" as I recall ) and it actually had a dictionary of commonly accepted terms.

Yeah, we were hard core.  We'd roam around DAOC and kill all "pinki's" (humans) we came across due to racial hatreds, but we'd give non-humans such as Kobolds (originally the only race you were permitted to roll) and Trolls a pass if they'd move on and leave "our" territory.

People thought we were strange, but never thought we were dull when we'd accost them and demand "tribuut!!!".  And if they paid us, we'd jump up and down hooting and hollering and then demand they move on.  (we actually enforced no kill rules on our members if someone paid tribute)

Even in EVE, there are role-playing guilds in many quarters, some taking very extreme positions based on the game lore.  (some excellent religious factions such as Amarr and Minmitar role players out there)

  I once ran into a group that was hardcore roleplaying the book series "The Black Company" and they had everything aligned with those books despite the fact they were fantasy novels.  (military structiures, rules, and pseudo lore)

You may not have seen them, but there are people still doing it, and still having fun at it.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Cephus404

Originally posted by DancingQueen

I seriously doubt that the tweens playing COD or whatever actually roleplays as some hardass soldier while playing with other people. 

99.99999% of people playing MMOs don't roleplay at all, they do exactly what people do in COD, they play a game.  Are you telling us that 99.999999% of the people playing MMOs should go do something else?  That's a good way to doom the genre entirely.

I have been playing MMO since the time before UO. I have yet to meet anyone who is RPing, and in-character all the time.

The norm is chatting about your kids, your family, and RL stuff while waiting for a dungeon. There is also nothing wrong with that. Some social fun, and then some killing monster fun ... not a bad way to use entertainment products.

Ah, then you never played against the Shadowclan, who have been in MMO's in one form or another since UO.  All role playing, all the time, with no exceptions, at least back in the day.  (not sure how well it's held up in this era of voice chat)

We were never permitted to speak in an open channel out of context, and even more we had to use a special "language" that restricted the use of certain characters of the alphabet (no "C's" and "E's" as I recall ) and it actually had a dictionary of commonly accepted terms.

 

No, i have not, nor i have any interests of doing so. If i want to chat with a guildie, i really don't need limitations. It is not like we are really in another world, and not playing a game.

Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek

Originally posted by CalmOceans

Originally posted by WhiteLantern
Really? I get the exact opposite feeling from these boards.

I think this board represents a vocal minority.

Absolutely.

 

Most people play whatever game interests them and they keep their mouth shut about it.

Unhappy people come here to complain because they have a need to infect other people with their unhappiness.

OCD people come here to start fights because, well...that's what OCD people do.

Teens (physically and mentally) come here to try and shock people with their words, mainly because their parents never really gave a shit when they tried to shock them with 666 tattooed on their foreheads and Aleister Crowley books strewn about their rooms. You can tell those people by their handles.

It all boils down to the fact that gaming forums are the trailer parks and meth houses of the genre.

It is fun watching (and sometimes pushing along) the train-wreck, however. :P

This^

But, lets not forget, that most here on in their 30's.. many are 40 & 50 because we started out on Wizardry/Zork/Baulder's gate, etc.. and still love rp games.

New kids and WoW'tards are the kids who only have a short stint at online game. They are the vocal minority here, that don't know what they want, because they only know games and not mechanics. They are the ones that are always starting new threads about what they don't know?

I think the gaming community is fractured because the younger crowd has yet to experience things and don't know history/progeny and like the action. While the oldschoolers are done with playthings and want a SINGLE premium game to settle down in and spend the next 5+ years in.

Those types of games are not what young adolecent children want, they want stuff to stimulate their undeveloped minds and are facinated with sprites on a screen & not politics, or  strategy, depth, etc..

So, why hasn't the market defined itself yet..? 

Because Blizzard and the WoW'tards are afraid to admit that World of Warcraft is a $3.99/month game ($48/year). Same with older premium games like Vanguard. They didn't need to goto Free to Play, only charge less per month and offer an incentive for full year subs.

Vanguard @ $10.99/month is not the same as Vanguard for $39.99/year.. ($3.33/month)...

There is no standard pricing, because these Developers are all out fooling themsevles, because when stacked up to Blizzard, they look like fools to their cshareholders, so they thought up all the kiddie stuff.. "frremium" ~ "F2P" ~ "microtranactions". These types of games are just arcade..  

All.... because these CEO's are afraid to invest themselves into something & truely put resources around a premium game (ie: $14~$25/month).

Shallow CEO = shallow product

---

Originally posted by Vannor
Those old games are still there. If there were people out there that really wanted that sort of thing.. they'd be happy with AC1, Ultima and EQ1 still... not asking for another game.

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Nobody is 100% satisfied with any one game. If they are, I would wonder about their blinders, or be very happy for them. The "old games" had their troubles. Some of those troubles could be fixed with new technology. It has been over a decade for them now, after all. The trick is finding a game that has more going for it than against it for each player. This is becoming nigh impossible for me today, in a gaming genre I once loved.

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Originally posted by nariusseldon
It is not like we are really in another world, and not playing a game.

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