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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » POLL: Should there be some type of Player to Player Collision Detection in CU?

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123 posts found
  EasymodeX

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/13
Posts: 152

4/15/13 2:45:41 PM#61
Originally posted by Niix_Ozek
Choke point fights leave you with one option beat tanks and then push to win

 

No.

Sidenote: Oh far be it from me to suggest that a chokepoint be a useful strategic location to serve as a chokepoint.  LololOlOLol.

 

 

All your options involve casters and lame mechanics ( knockbacks ) which I'm eternally hopeful doesn't make it into this game either

As fun as it is to knock people off bridges using basically no skill and be able to push a button is fun the first few times it becomes very lame. 

 

1.  Knockbacks are a great mechanic when balanced appropriately.

2.  Knockbacks could be mitigated by good positioning or avoided via baiting same-category CC (roots) and via block/parry. Also mitigated via pre-emptive CC immunity.

 

I don't think casters and healers care much either way and get why they prefer cd as it is likely more overpowered ability than any defensive skill they will get, why wouldn't you like it? Doesn't matter to you only makes it easier to play

I played a melee DPS in Warhammer for 80% of my game time.

Try harder.

 

But totally ruins any kind of chance at usefulness for melee dps characters

Get good.

 

But more seriously, all I see a string of fearful complaints throwing darts blindly.  Like I said before, you're simply not familiar with how CD functions in a robust combat system and are afraid you won't be able to do anything.

  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

4/15/13 2:54:29 PM#62
All your options were that
Aoe tanks
Kill tanks and move forward
Run away
Flank them ( not always possible )

So explain

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  EasymodeX

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/13
Posts: 152

4/15/13 2:59:59 PM#63
Re-read the post again.  There were at least 3 other options I listed there.
  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

4/15/13 3:15:17 PM#64
Or simply don't enjoy them like you do?
Knockbacks are terrible mechanics, try again.

Your play style may fit it, mine does not... Doesn't make me bad or grasping at straws
Simply a different point of view as yours

You need to take your pompous hat off, the game isn't made yet, clearly we enjoy two different styles of play. Simply explaining mine. you can choose to listen or ignore and think you're better than me I care not. There are many issues CD brings wether you like those issues or not. Lots of us don't.

But you don't listen cuz you're better than me LOLLOLOOLOOLOL right lollolol

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

4/15/13 3:16:36 PM#65
Knockbacks arnt options for me sorry

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  EasymodeX

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/13
Posts: 152

4/15/13 3:22:24 PM#66

There are many issues CD brings wether you like those issues or not.

Of course there are.  There are also many issues added to the game when you stick in CC.  There are many issues when you add range characters in addition to melee (or vice vesra).

There have been 10 years of MMOs that have had issues when you add PvE gear into PvP.

There are many issues with poor implementations of all mechanics.

 

CD is no different; WAR's CD at release and for the first half year was pretty bad due to the technical issues and rubberbanding.  It was bad until they:

- Fixed the netcode (then fixed it again and again and again)

- Allowed you to "push-through" allied players

- Added the side ramp to keeps

- Re-tuned AOE mechanics across the board

 

However, fabricating bullshit about the abstract concept of CD reducing gameplay to a single "walk up and dryhump the tanks until they fall over" event is just that -- fear-based bullshit.

  Odaman

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/13
Posts: 195

4/15/13 3:33:22 PM#67
Originally posted by EasymodeX

There are many issues CD brings wether you like those issues or not.

Of course there are.  There are also many issues added to the game when you stick in CC.  There are many issues when you add range characters in addition to melee (or vice vesra).

There have been 10 years of MMOs that have had issues when you add PvE gear into PvP.

There are many issues with poor implementations of all mechanics.

 

CD is no different; WAR's CD at release and for the first half year was pretty bad due to the technical issues and rubberbanding.  It was bad until they:

- Fixed the netcode (then fixed it again and again and again)

- Allowed you to "push-through" allied players

- Added the side ramp to keeps

- Re-tuned AOE mechanics across the board

 

However, fabricating bullshit about the abstract concept of CD reducing gameplay to a single "walk up and dryhump the tanks until they fall over" event is just that -- fear-based bullshit.

My fear based bullshit stems from the cc CD brings along with it. I've yet to see an mmo that has made pulls and leaps not dumb down gameplay making it easy to focus fire anyone no matter their positioning on a whim. Then there are aoe pulls... ugh, warhammer flashbacks. If they do add cd i hope it's done well. There's no point screaming the sky will fall if they add CD.

  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

4/15/13 3:59:21 PM#68
Originally posted by EasymodeX

There are many issues CD brings wether you like those issues or not.

Of course there are.  There are also many issues added to the game when you stick in CC.  There are many issues when you add range characters in addition to melee (or vice vesra).

There have been 10 years of MMOs that have had issues when you add PvE gear into PvP.

There are many issues with poor implementations of all mechanics.

 

CD is no different; WAR's CD at release and for the first half year was pretty bad due to the technical issues and rubberbanding.  It was bad until they:

- Fixed the netcode (then fixed it again and again and again)

- Allowed you to "push-through" allied players

- Added the side ramp to keeps

- Re-tuned AOE mechanics across the board

 

However, fabricating bullshit about the abstract concept of CD reducing gameplay to a single "walk up and dryhump the tanks until they fall over" event is just that -- fear-based bullshit.

Not fabricating anything, you simply see through all my arguments because the "fixes" to CD like knockbacks pulls etc. are okay with you. They are not ok with me so my basis of everything I say is under assumption they arn't included.

CD may work, it may not, I don't like the idea for all the alternative measures you need to put into place to make it work as well as the ability for someone to stand in a door way and be afk and be as much benefit as a pro gamer in stoping a rush. I like the ability and freedom not having CD adds to rushing through lines to cause havoc on healers / casters, it adds more randomness to battle and I see that as a good thing.

Like what you want, don't need to get angry papa bear.

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  EasymodeX

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/13
Posts: 152

4/15/13 4:01:05 PM#69

I've yet to see an mmo that has made pulls and leaps not dumb down gameplay making it easy to focus fire anyone no matter their positioning on a whim. Then there are aoe pulls... ugh, warhammer flashbacks.

Haha, I enjoyed the pulls and KBs in WAR -- after they consolidated CC categories, nerfed WL pull range, nerfed rift/EM pull scatter, and probably more adjustments I can't remember off the top of my head.

KBs and pulls just need tuning.  They were more of a "new" mechanic to MMOs in general when WAR was released.  I don't think the devs took those mechanics very seriously.

 

 

Not fabricating anything, you simply see through all my arguments because the "fixes" to CD like knockbacks pulls etc. are okay with you. They are not ok with me so my basis of everything I say is under assumption they arn't included.

If you don't like KBs et al then that's fine (note: even though they can be balanced).

However, don't attempt to claim that a tankwall only has 1 counter via brute force.

 

CD may work, it may not, I don't like the idea for all the alternative measures you need to put into place to make it work as well as the ability for someone to stand in a door way and be afk and be as much benefit as a pro gamer in stoping a rush.

Here you go again: an AFK player is not as good as a "pro gamer" in a tank wall.  You're throwing in another random assumption.  Maybe you don't like morales?  You don't know active block?  You don't like pre-emptive CC immunity?  You don't like CC immunity?

There are tons of things you may legitimately like or not like.  But don't make up random b.s. like "an afk player is as good as a skilled player", especially when the primary PvP game with CD (WAR) had tanks who rotated active defense mechanisms with other abilities in order to stand in the AOE successfully.

 

I like the ability and freedom not having CD adds to rushing through lines to cause havoc on healers / casters,

So ... that means you don't like mez either, because you need purge to get through that.  You also don't like any form of CC immunity or ability to block CC, because you'll need those to close on range.  There's also any sort of sprint / leap / dash capability to close on the range player.

You just want to run up and have enemies fall over.

Oh man, you're screwed.

  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

4/15/13 4:09:01 PM#70
Any ability that changes your geographical position without your choice I generally have a problem with. CC and stuns are different as you have to be put in a bad position to get hit by it, a 5 year old can knock people off a bridge. Talentless skill imo.

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

4/15/13 4:17:53 PM#71
Originally posted by EasymodeX

 

Not fabricating anything, you simply see through all my arguments because the "fixes" to CD like knockbacks pulls etc. are okay with you. They are not ok with me so my basis of everything I say is under assumption they arn't included.

If you don't like KBs et al then that's fine (note: even though they can be balanced).

However, don't attempt to claim that a tankwall only has 1 counter via brute force.

 Balanced or not, I still have a problem with them. I havn't seen a solution other then knockbacks or brute force, removing knockbacks from my line of thinking leaves 1 counter of frustration. but thanks

CD may work, it may not, I don't like the idea for all the alternative measures you need to put into place to make it work as well as the ability for someone to stand in a door way and be afk and be as much benefit as a pro gamer in stoping a rush.

Here you go again: an AFK player is not as good as a "pro gamer" in a tank wall.  You're throwing in another random assumption.  Maybe you don't like morales?  You don't know active block?  You don't like pre-emptive CC immunity?  You don't like CC immunity?

Assumption based on a mechanic I dislike it was a simple point about the fabric of the ability, but take it to an extreme, please its going places... not.

There are tons of things you may legitimately like or not like.  But don't make up random b.s. like "an afk player is as good as a skilled player", especially when the primary PvP game with CD (WAR) had tanks who rotated active defense mechanisms with other abilities in order to stand in the AOE successfully.

 I don't like a lot of what made tanks "PVP TANKS" in WAR, removing CD would solve a lot of them because it would force them to be designed differently. random bs lol.

I like the ability and freedom not having CD adds to rushing through lines to cause havoc on healers / casters,

So ... that means you don't like mez either, because you need purge to get through that.  You also don't like any form of CC immunity or ability to block CC, because you'll need those to close on range.  There's also any sort of sprint / leap / dash capability to close on the range player.

You just want to run up and have enemies fall over.

Oh man, you're screwed.

CC and stuns are quite different then CD lol but nice try to draw comparisons. If there was an immunity or spell cast to de-CD then sure add CD lol. Maybe you should re-read what I said again and understand the context of what was implied instead of making more assumptions upon things.

I have stated before just like knockbacks and pulls i dislike Leaps, but personal preference to combat mechanics / abilities and play style. 

 

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  EasymodeX

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/13
Posts: 152

4/15/13 4:28:36 PM#72

A 6 year old can step to the right so they don't get knocked off the bridge, or they get knocked into one of the bridge pillars or the rail.  You basically have to be in a bad position to get knocked back off the bridge.

I also hate getting stunned.  It takes away my choice of action.

Oh man oh man oh man ^_^.

  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

4/15/13 4:35:12 PM#73
Originally posted by EasymodeX

A 6 year old can step to the right so they don't get knocked off the bridge, or they get knocked into one of the bridge pillars or the rail.  You basically have to be in a bad position to get knocked back off the bridge.

I also hate getting stunned.  It takes away my choice of action.

Oh man oh man oh man ^_^.

Positioning on a bridge to not get knocked off is very limited lol ... sigh that is my point exactly.

 

There are tons of people who think stuns should be removed from the game? Are they bad players or stupid? no they simply like a different type of combat.

Clearly we will never agree as you think WAR is a good game lololol

Not even worth talking to you, feel like I just went back to high school.

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  EasymodeX

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/13
Posts: 152

4/15/13 4:43:00 PM#74

Positioning on a bridge to not get knocked off is very limited lol ... sigh that is my point exactly.

You kind of just put yourself in line between the enemy and the bridge terrain.  It's pretty easy unless you're completely unaware of your surroundings.

 

There are tons of people who think stuns should be removed from the game? Are they bad players or stupid? no they simply like a different type of combat.

I would suggest that they are stupid.  There's a distinct difference between "dislike" and "should be removed from the game".  The latter is definitely stupid territory.

 

Clearly we will never agree as you think WAR is a good game lololol

WAR had some very good systems and very bad systems, like most games.  It was also about 10x better a year or so into retail than it was at release.

Kind like how stungard DAOC was a good game lololololololol.  Or hibs-only endo regen was a good game lolllll.  The list could go on.

  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

4/15/13 4:58:24 PM#75
Originally posted by EasymodeX

Positioning on a bridge to not get knocked off is very limited lol ... sigh that is my point exactly.

You kind of just put yourself in line between the enemy and the bridge terrain.  It's pretty easy unless you're completely unaware of your surroundings.

 again moving away from the point, hehe. These choke points are said to be a focus of this game as MJ has stated multiple times he wants them in the game. We'll see how it plays out, long as their are options against participating in tank war battle mini game of WAR.

There are tons of people who think stuns should be removed from the game? Are they bad players or stupid? no they simply like a different type of combat.

I would suggest that they are stupid.  There's a distinct difference between "dislike" and "should be removed from the game".  The latter is definitely stupid territory.

 Troll.

Clearly we will never agree as you think WAR is a good game lololol

WAR had some very good systems and very bad systems, like most games.  It was also about 10x better a year or so into retail than it was at release.

Kind like how stungard DAOC was a good game lololololololol.  Or hibs-only endo regen was a good game lolllll.  The list could go on.

Again opinions lol silly guy. so cute.

 

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  EasymodeX

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/13
Posts: 152

4/15/13 5:07:38 PM#76

long as their are options against participating in tank war battle mini game of WAR.

So, you feel that tanks shouldn't have a mini game?

Soloers have mini games, healers have mini games, stealthers have mini games.  You are excluding tanks because ... ?

 

Again opinions lol silly guy. so cute.

Do you disagree that WAR had bad subsystems?

Or that perma AOE stungard was a bad implementation of CC?

  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

4/15/13 5:18:08 PM#77
I tend to disagree with the need for ask shield beasts in a pvp game
There is no pve no mob tanking
Easier to design the class to have shield utility instead of installing features to give them a purpose ... IMO their purpose is in pve games and I've played tanks in every game I've played

And i was merely stating they were opinions
My opinion on those are some of the same
daoc wasn't perfect , they had a lot of abilities that were simply too powerful and instead of adjusting them they would just buff another realms...LA was prob the best change they made although too much for sbs maybe , debatable

The gameplay with those features was still far more enjoyable than WARs with all it's faults at release


Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  cmacord

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 6

4/15/13 5:47:19 PM#78
NONONONO!!!!!!
  poisonman

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/09
Posts: 59

4/15/13 6:01:16 PM#79

Really Don't think not including Collision Detection into the game simply because you don't like it is not a good enough reason to not include it, same thing with knockbacks and pulls.

But those are my thoughts, I would like to see it as long as it doesn't  negatively effect gameplay through lag, framerate, and block / griefing issues mainly with friendly players, enemies blocking you is pretty much the point of Collision Detection.

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  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

4/15/13 7:06:51 PM#80
Originally posted by poisonman

Really Don't think not including Collision Detection into the game simply because you don't like it is not a good enough reason to not include it, same thing with knockbacks and pulls.

But those are my thoughts, I would like to see it as long as it doesn't  negatively effect gameplay through lag, framerate, and block / griefing issues mainly with friendly players, enemies blocking you is pretty much the point of Collision Detection.

Simply put yes, however there are not just blind whimbs for reasons why people don't like things, i've listen many over many threads why I dislike CD type combat systems. Just because he claims they are basless because he enjoys the tank war CD or whatever doesn't mean I have no reasons. just fyi.

 

I'm open to CD, but not open to any current forms of it, so hope they're creative to make it work well in a massive 200 person system.

Going to be pretty hard to balance skilled group combat ability to take on more numbers with CD, hope they have some unique skills to do it because I havn't played a game with any.

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

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