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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » Boring, Linear, and Simplistic (Don't Bother)

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87 posts found
  Hiron

Novice Member

Joined: 3/11/13
Posts: 49

3/12/13 8:18:16 PM#61
Originally posted by Laross

Of course this has been my experience and as a professional in the industry I don't get excited very often but when I see another combat designer who understands the basics of an exciting combat encounter and make it fun in an MMO, I have to give him some appluase for understanding that it is much better to have quality over quantity.

You sir read my mind. Although I hate the lack of creative dungeon design (what design?) and limited character customization. I was very suprised at how good the combat is. Normally I dont care about graphics/combat if the gameplay is good, like DDO with their exceptional well designed dungeons. But I played NW longer than I normally would because all the fun I had in combat. Great job at hoever is responsible for the combat system.

  Allacore69

Elite Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 582

3/12/13 11:13:45 PM#62


Originally posted by hfztt
I think the thing that really broke the game for me was the shiny fly by wire line on the ground you follow when ever you get a quest.

I shit you not. There is an actual line of shiny glimmer that you follow through all your quests showing you the shortest way to the next step of teh quest. This kinda got to be laugh out funny when I got into a room where the teh path up to a platform was not imidiately clear. Good for me I had a shining line showing me exactly which way I should wald through this mini puzzle.

And dont get me started on the "twitch" battle in this. It just dont work. The ammount of times that I have been hit by monsters doing close combat damage after having run away from them several seconds ago is just silly.

They have dumbed the gamepley in this so much down that I cant take it seriously.

But then again DDO was a mess to on release. GIve it a few years and they might actually put some D&D feel into this one as well.



So why not hit "Z" and turn the shiny trail off.....Duh

  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

3/13/13 6:20:40 AM#63

The non-linear quest has been dropped in the box for beta weekend 3.

 

Although it is single quest, you will feel like you played a campaign because it is long (though if you skip all side-quests, it is quite short but where is the fun in that).

 

Day: Beta Weekend 3

Quest Name: The Wild Moon(mote) Chase

Campaign name: Maiden in the Moon

Author: @gillrmn

 

This will at least show the users how foundry quests can be made to be very non-linear and different.

  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/13/13 6:28:30 AM#64
Originally posted by gillrmn

The non-linear quest has been dropped in the box for beta weekend 3.

 

Although it is single quest, you will feel like you played a campaign because it is long (though if you skip all side-quests, it is quite short but where is the fun in that).

 

Day: Beta Weekend 3

Quest Name: The Wild Moon(mote) Chase

Campaign name: Maiden in the Moon

Author: @gillrmn

 

This will at least show the users how foundry quests can be made to be very non-linear and different.

 

gillrmn knows the foundry better than anyone else I have seen post on the official forums..haven't done his foundry stuff yet but he as been very helpful teaching others about foundry and hope he does some tutorials for launch:)

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2398

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

3/13/13 6:34:47 AM#65

Is the game linear?  Yes.  Is the game heavily instanced? Yes.  Do I normally like games which feature these things?  Hell No!

 

 

But you see, for some reason I absolutely love the game because it doesn't try to do to many things.  At its heart, Neverwinter (NWO) is a MMO with Story and Dungeon Crawling.  I am not sure if the complete game will feature voice overs, I suspect it will but even if not the story's the game tells are nicely done.  The biggest thing I like about the game though is it has more content then any game I have ever played.  It is also the only MMO that features full instanced solo encounters and not those instanced quests seen in other MMO's.  I seen a post somewhere on these forums where another poster said by level 20 he had done more dungeons then any other MMO.  This is not far from the turth.  99% of the dungeons you do in NWO are actual dungeons designed with depth and story in mind and are full featured.

 

If it makes you feel better about yourself, I usually dread having to do the open world zones, they don't hold a candle to the story and fun you have running the dungeons & instances.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  jedensuscg

Novice Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 212

3/13/13 6:39:35 AM#66
Originally posted by hfztt

I think the thing that really broke the game for me was the shiny fly by wire line on the ground you follow when ever you get a quest.

I shit you not. There is an actual line of shiny glimmer that you follow through all your quests showing you the shortest way to the next step of teh quest. This kinda got to be laugh out funny when I got into a room where the teh path up to a platform was not imidiately clear. Good for me I had a shining line showing me exactly which way I should wald through this mini puzzle.

And dont get me started on the "twitch" battle in this. It just dont work. The ammount of times that I have been hit by monsters doing close combat damage after having run away from them several seconds ago is just silly.

They have dumbed the gamepley in this so much down that I cant take it seriously.

But then again DDO was a mess to on release. GIve it a few years and they might actually put some D&D feel into this one as well.

Umm, you did actually read (or rather listen) to the small tutorial as you start the game? You know the one 90% of people just blow through.

Simply press Z, that is all you have to do, to toggle the quest helper on or off.

 

I do agree however the "action" combat is far less true action combat ala Skyrim or even Tera, as it is still a fully turn based game where instead of tab targetting and pressing a number to auto attack, you target by putting your crosshair over the guy and press the mouse button.  However as with most MMO's, if your not "targeting" aka mousing over someone, you can't use most of your skills. That combined with the movement lock when using skills removes any last bit of twitch, as you are often unable to react because you are mid swing and locked in place or EVERY SINGLE SKILL.

But the selling point to me on the game is the Foundry.  While the official content is pretty linear and bleh, I am leaving it up to the players with real imagination to create content that is awesome.  And of course I myself love to make content for it.

  Thane

Elite Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1679

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

3/13/13 6:40:08 AM#67
Originally posted by trash656

I cannot fathom why people here seem to like this game so much.

For a D&D game this is one of the most Boring, Linear, and unindepth/simplistic out of all the D&D games I have ever played in my life. Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights had more depth, class customization, and uniqueness, and these were single player games that came out over 10 years ago.

Even Dungeons and Dragons Online has more depth than this sorry excuse for a D&D game. Everyone chooses the same class skills, aquires the same traits, and can specialize in small things like a little bit of armor resistance or damage, but not enough to really make a huge inpact on anything. About the only good thing about this game is the Graphics, and Gameplay. This game is one of the most boring games I've ever played. I had more enjoyment in the latest Skyrim DLC and that wasn't even that great.

PS: I don't care if this is beta, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize what kind of game this is.

Cheers,

-Trash

i highlighted the source of your problem.

you don't compare single player to mmo.

 

those games are 2 of the best RPGs that have come out so far. and most likely they will stay on top for some time (unless the new torment can kick in).

 

 

uh, but actually i never played NWN alone so far (and i played it alot in it's days)  :P

it's a coop game that was pretty linear too, at least if you wanted to complete the storry.

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

3/13/13 9:35:12 AM#68
Originally posted by azzamasin

Is the game linear?  Yes.  Is the game heavily instanced? Yes.  Do I normally like games which feature these things?  Hell No! ...

Hey azzamasin!

 

The game is linear because it is a storyteller. Storytelling has to be tight and linear. Hence the official content does not steps to non-linear way of making quests. They just want to tell you a story. Story is good - needs a lot of polish - but is good.

 

As for non-linearity, play this beta weekend 3 - "The Wild Moon(mote) Chase". Initially it was very non-linear but players complained that it was "too confusing" for them. So I added a few backbones. But it still is very very non-linear.

 

So expect some very non-linear stuff from foundry. By very I mean VERY!!!

 

@Aerowyn: Thanks *blushes*

But I just have a head start from others. Many will catch up soon. What I am trying to do with my quest is to display some less known capabilities of foundry. I made non-linear quest because I got into debate with someon who said non-linear quest was not possible with foundry. So I made a big quest to show it is.

If I demonstrate that foundry as a tool can be used to make sandbox campaigns - my purpose of making the campaign will be solved.

  User Deleted
3/13/13 9:41:09 AM#69
Originally posted by trash656 unindepth

Perhaps Shallow is the word you were looking for?

 

Anyway, shallow the game may be, but I still had fun playing it over the weekend.

Will have another look at it once it has released.

  HorrorScope

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 610

3/13/13 10:31:53 AM#70
Originally posted by azzamasin

Is the game linear?  Yes.  Is the game heavily instanced? Yes.  Do I normally like games which feature these things?  Hell No!

 

 

But you see, for some reason I absolutely love the game because it doesn't try to do to many things.  At its heart, Neverwinter (NWO) is a MMO with Story and Dungeon Crawling.  I am not sure if the complete game will feature voice overs, I suspect it will but even if not the story's the game tells are nicely done.  The biggest thing I like about the game though is it has more content then any game I have ever played.  It is also the only MMO that features full instanced solo encounters and not those instanced quests seen in other MMO's.  I seen a post somewhere on these forums where another poster said by level 20 he had done more dungeons then any other MMO.  This is not far from the turth.  99% of the dungeons you do in NWO are actual dungeons designed with depth and story in mind and are full featured.

 

If it makes you feel better about yourself, I usually dread having to do the open world zones, they don't hold a candle to the story and fun you have running the dungeons & instances.

 

For me I can relate, I think it has to do with simply taking a Diablo type game and making it over the shoulder (more 3d/immersive), it's somewhat surprising how little devs have done this. To me D3 if it was about raising the bar and staying modern, it should have done, with a retro mode for S & G's. There are a few mmo-lites that are doing this, the combat in each is very fun.

  Zekiah

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 2527

Hype (noun)
1. to trick; gull.
2. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
3. swindle, deception, or trick.

3/13/13 11:02:44 AM#71
The game is very subpar as it is now. They need to fix a lot of things to make the game decent but I don't see that happening. Developers love to over-promise and under-deliver, I don't see that changing now. Fixing the horendous animations and clunky combat would go very far in fixing things but I won't hold my breath.

"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  kyssari

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 158

"Reality is but a figment of our collective imaginations." -N.E.S.

3/13/13 11:16:35 AM#72

Well if you follow only the main questline and don't do anything else no kidding its linear, any and every game out there is going to be completely linear if you only follow one questline and don't do anything on the side.... There was only a handful of Foundry missions in this last weekend but I did a few of em and they were a lot of fun and very well done. Once things get rolling there will be a nearly endless flow of new content being added to The Foundry basically giving you an endless supply of "sidequests" to do that totally breaks the linear gameplay of following only the main questline. Best part is Foundry missions scale to your level so you can do any/all of em at any level you so choose.

 

As for the lack of character customization I do agree atm it does seem extremely limited. I can only hope that when we finally actually get to see the other Paragons for each class there will actually be significant differences between each one. As of yet we've only seen one Paragon for each class so its kinda impossible to say what kind of options we'll really have in the long run heh.

 

Personally I did not expect this game to play anything like DnD (Baldurs Gate 2 FTW) and even had really low expectations in general considering Cryptics track record but after finally getting ingame to give it a shot I can honestly say I had a lot of fun playing the game and will do so for a long time after launch. Given it does need some work in certain areas of course but it's not nearly as bad as people are saying if you actually take it for what it is, an action based rpg set in the dnd universe, and not a fullscale DnD game like the BG or NWN series. The lore and setting are all DnD but the gameplay mechanics are far from it.

  Hiron

Novice Member

Joined: 3/11/13
Posts: 49

3/13/13 3:21:31 PM#73
I like the mainstory being linear. Usually thats required to tell a good story. Thats why I love the lore and combat of the game. The combat is really well done and suprised me. But because the dungeon design sucks **** its useless even with a good story. The dungeon is generic and too simple. Also the very limited character customization is breaking the game. Only saving grace is the foundry. We will see.
  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

3/14/13 6:34:27 AM#74

Ok. Just dropped in to say that it looks like "The Wild Moon(mote) Chase" will definately make it in this beta weekend 3.

 

If golden trail fails in the begining, open your quest journal and read the description of the quest. However, I would prefer that you turn off the golden trail in the begining and play it without the golden path. If you do, I bet you will enjoy it more.

 

Actually finding the house in the begining is also a puzzle and part of role play. Role play is that you are an adventurer who just tore off a flyer off the job-board. Then you read te flyer and look on the backside of lyer where there is a map. That map is described in the words in description.

 

Similarly, if you get stuck later in the game, you should talk to nearest NPC and they will help you.

 

After playing the quest, please let me know what you think about non-linearity in NW.

  DrDwarf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/08
Posts: 502

3/14/13 10:33:44 AM#75
Originally posted by jedensuscg
Originally posted by hfztt

I think the thing that really broke the game for me was the shiny fly by wire line on the ground you follow when ever you get a quest.

I shit you not. There is an actual line of shiny glimmer that you follow through all your quests showing you the shortest way to the next step of teh quest. This kinda got to be laugh out funny when I got into a room where the teh path up to a platform was not imidiately clear. Good for me I had a shining line showing me exactly which way I should wald through this mini puzzle.

And dont get me started on the "twitch" battle in this. It just dont work. The ammount of times that I have been hit by monsters doing close combat damage after having run away from them several seconds ago is just silly.

They have dumbed the gamepley in this so much down that I cant take it seriously.

But then again DDO was a mess to on release. GIve it a few years and they might actually put some D&D feel into this one as well.

Umm, you did actually read (or rather listen) to the small tutorial as you start the game? You know the one 90% of people just blow through.

Simply press Z, that is all you have to do, to toggle the quest helper on or off.

 

I do agree however the "action" combat is far less true action combat ala Skyrim or even Tera, as it is still a fully turn based game where instead of tab targetting and pressing a number to auto attack, you target by putting your crosshair over the guy and press the mouse button.  However as with most MMO's, if your not "targeting" aka mousing over someone, you can't use most of your skills. That combined with the movement lock when using skills removes any last bit of twitch, as you are often unable to react because you are mid swing and locked in place or EVERY SINGLE SKILL.

But the selling point to me on the game is the Foundry.  While the official content is pretty linear and bleh, I am leaving it up to the players with real imagination to create content that is awesome.  And of course I myself love to make content for it.

lol.   Why should such a basic aspect of the world be a question of turning on and off help of this kind ?   

You either compete or you do not.  You have to be a special kind of competitor to make things harder for yourself for no in game benefit = what turning off the ridiculous quest bread crumb trail amounts to.

 

 

  HorrorScope

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 610

3/14/13 11:35:12 AM#76
Originally posted by DrDwarf
 

lol.   Why should such a basic aspect of the world be a question of turning on and off help of this kind ?   

You either compete or you do not.  You have to be a special kind of competitor to make things harder for yourself for no in game benefit = what turning off the ridiculous quest bread crumb trail amounts to.

 

 

 

I'm ok with your line of thinking. Question, are you ever a person that elsewhere talks about how games have been dumbed down? Consoles have degraded PC difficulty? Thanks.

  Adren

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 59

5/13/13 7:34:05 PM#77
im normally positive about new games that i play..but Neverwinter really isnt a good game...hype will die down and everyone will see game really isnt good...i think what really annoyed me was the fact that pants dont drop from mobs BUT ALL the other items in the game drop...went from 1-15 with no pants and realized i have to craft them...lame
  Golelorn

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/03
Posts: 1028

5/13/13 9:01:20 PM#78
Originally posted by trash656

I cannot fathom why people here seem to like this game so much.

For a D&D game this is one of the most Boring, Linear, and unindepth/simplistic out of all the D&D games I have ever played in my life. Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights had more depth, class customization, and uniqueness, and these were single player games that came out over 10 years ago.

Even Dungeons and Dragons Online has more depth than this sorry excuse for a D&D game. Everyone chooses the same class skills, aquires the same traits, and can specialize in small things like a little bit of armor resistance or damage, but not enough to really make a huge inpact on anything. About the only good thing about this game is the Graphics, and Gameplay. This game is one of the most boring games I've ever played. I had more enjoyment in the latest Skyrim DLC and that wasn't even that great.

PS: I don't care if this is beta, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize what kind of game this is.

Cheers,

-Trash

As you build your character you have to take a certain route with each class. I think they call it a paragon path.

I'm loving this game. Sounds like you leveled to 10, and yes at level 10 everyone class is pretty much the same. Not so at level 40.

  Eivi

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/04
Posts: 102

Never sacrifice freedom for security

5/13/13 9:43:49 PM#79
Really don't know why people are banging on about the foundry. It really isn't a new concept. CoH had a similar system implemented years ago. Shame ncsoft pulled the plug.

  Panzerbase

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 310

5/13/13 9:46:48 PM#80
I don't trust people who qualify themselves. 
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