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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Collision Detection in Camelot Unchained: Yes or No?

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291 posts found
  Foggye

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 92

3/09/13 6:01:56 PM#101
Originally posted by dynamicipftw
Originally posted by Foggye

I have no doubt that it's feasible, but from a gameplay perspective is it fun?  Sure, it does add an extra dimension into the equation, but it also  means that players are turned into terrain.

 

RvR there's mass combat.  Hundreds of players crammed into a castle.  Pure collison detection would imore apply to your interactions with your allies then it does your enemies.  You're running into a door to escape from getting killed and you get blocked by friendlies.  You're trying to get on the battlements, to zap people as a mage, but all the good spots are taken.  Constantly getting cockblocked by friendles.  Trying being a stealther sneaking around, you'll rage at your own people.  The net result is, in most cases you're with allies more then you are fighting against an enemy.  This hampers a bit with things like realm pride.

 

Now if you remove CD from allies, that solves that problem but removes immersion.  While it's kinda of a neat tactical element, it can really stagment keep fights.  It was long enough trying to take in keep in DAoC, but WAR it was even worse.  Having 50-100 people stopped by two fat Orks getting spam healed.  Only the coordinated people on the stairs lasted enough to do any real damage and it was rarely really enough.   May make keep taking too hard.  Where the bulk of areas taken happen where the other side is sleeping.  Really hurts your smaller groups and single groupless players in my opinion.

 

Just my opinion from my own experiences that it just isn't very fun. 

 

 

It not only removes immersion, it also creates HELL for melee dps. Imagine a small caster kiting you by repeatedly going through a large tank.

  I imagine it really does hurt the melee dps, and that you'll probably see a lot more casters since they wouldn't need to jump hurdles just to do damage.

 

I'm sure they're are ways to make CD very viable.  I believe someone mentioned physical keep damage, and ladders to get around logjams.  Although, it's something that needs to be considered not only from it's own impact, but it's impact to other things (group comp, interruption, line of sight, keep combat, melee classes, personal/small combat, cc, knockbacks, escaping).

 

If it gets backed (it should be coded to be modular so it could be removed if it's not wanted/needed) then I think that the best is move is to have the alpha testers (the backers) test and give input to see if it's a valid and worthwhile element to CU.  The backers are gonna be the most objective about it.

  Seitr

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/13
Posts: 50

3/09/13 6:02:14 PM#102
Originally posted by Dane_Wilding
Originally posted by dynamicipftw
Originally posted by Dane_Wilding
Originally posted by dynamicipftw
Originally posted by Foggye

 

 

 

It not only removes immersion, it also creates HELL for melee dps. Imagine a small caster kiting you by repeatedly going through a large tank.

It's called working together. Tanks should be USEFULL on the battlefield. Or should this game be like GW2 where everyone is glass cannon? If you want that, then go play GW2. 

I suggest you educate yourself (by playing some DAoC) before posting on these forums or else nobody will take you seriously.

Well if that isn't a big "fuck you" then I don't know what is. Thanks.

Your use of personal insults and lack of evidence to back up claims seems to damage your reputation and ability to be taken seriously. Much more so than not having played a single game. I'm sorry I love RvR and haven't played DAoC? Is this some huge elitest party for members only? 

Seems that way doesn't it! There were ways to combat this in DAoC so if dynamicipftw had issues with casters doing this he wasn't worth anything as a melee class IMO.

  Kuldebar

Novice Member

Joined: 2/11/13
Posts: 65

 
OP  3/09/13 6:02:21 PM#103
Originally posted by dynamicipftw

I just remembered: WAR had a thing where if you ran infront of someone for 5 seconds you would go through him. Isn't that ridiculous? 

 

Only ridiculous in that you think it's relevant to the discussion of collision detection.

Those who tread with ill intent
Beneath our sacred firmament,
Whether of Hammer or of Tree,
Albion's might shall strike at thee!

  dynamicipftw

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/26/12
Posts: 216

3/09/13 6:05:50 PM#104
Originally posted by Kuldebar
Originally posted by dynamicipftw

I just remembered: WAR had a thing where if you ran infront of someone for 5 seconds you would go through him. Isn't that ridiculous? 

 

Only ridiculous in that you think it's relevant to the discussion of collision detection.

Of course it's relevant. You collide for 5 seconds but then you don't? How does that not completely destroy immersion?

  Kuldebar

Novice Member

Joined: 2/11/13
Posts: 65

 
OP  3/09/13 6:12:51 PM#105
Originally posted by dynamicipftw
Originally posted by Kuldebar
Originally posted by dynamicipftw

I just remembered: WAR had a thing where if you ran infront of someone for 5 seconds you would go through him. Isn't that ridiculous? 

 

Only ridiculous in that you think it's relevant to the discussion of collision detection.

Of course it's relevant. You collide for 5 seconds but then you don't? How does that not completely destroy immersion?

OK you said "collide" now, before you said "in front of" -there's a difference.

Colliding and then passing through is a type of collision detection called "mud". It allows a slowdown and then a pass through an intersection. This is done for a reason, it's speed bumping. The "stone" CD method wouldn't let that happen at all. The "Water" method would make it completely fluid with no slow down, etc.

If you would pass through some one just because you were in front of them, that would simply be a client server glitch.

Those who tread with ill intent
Beneath our sacred firmament,
Whether of Hammer or of Tree,
Albion's might shall strike at thee!

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

3/09/13 6:18:28 PM#106
Originally posted by dynamicipftw
Originally posted by Kuldebar
Originally posted by dynamicipftw

I just remembered: WAR had a thing where if you ran infront of someone for 5 seconds you would go through him. Isn't that ridiculous? 

 

Only ridiculous in that you think it's relevant to the discussion of collision detection.

Of course it's relevant. You collide for 5 seconds but then you don't? How does that not completely destroy immersion?

actually thats exactly how to do it with friendly targets

it stops that mage running through his tank buddy so you can nail him

but it lets you pass greifers

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

3/09/13 6:19:11 PM#107
Originally posted by Kuldebar
Originally posted by dynamicipftw
Originally posted by Kuldebar
Originally posted by dynamicipftw

I just remembered: WAR had a thing where if you ran infront of someone for 5 seconds you would go through him. Isn't that ridiculous? 

 

Only ridiculous in that you think it's relevant to the discussion of collision detection.

Of course it's relevant. You collide for 5 seconds but then you don't? How does that not completely destroy immersion?

OK you said "collide" now, before you said "in front of" -there's a difference.

Colliding and then passing through is a type of collision detection called "mud". It allows a slowdown and then a pass through an intersection. This is done for a reason, it's speed bumping. The "stone" CD method wouldn't let that happen at all. The "Water" method would make it completely fluid with no slow down, etc.

If you would pass through some one just because you were in front of them, that would simply be a client server glitch.

stone for enemies / mud for friendlies works for me

  KappenWiz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/06/07
Posts: 163

3/09/13 6:35:31 PM#108

I don't know how this is going to be resolved, but if this game actually sees the light of day, and CD is in it, AND there's a race as small as lurikeens...we better be able to jump over them. It's been a dream of mine for a long time.

 

  Seitr

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/13
Posts: 50

3/09/13 6:47:09 PM#109
Originally posted by KappenWiz

I don't know how this is going to be resolved, but if this game actually sees the light of day, and CD is in it, AND there's a race as small as lurikeens...we better be able to jump over them. It's been a dream of mine for a long time.

 

Nope lol....two keens will be able to stop a zerg at the front door.

  grimjakk

Novice Member

Joined: 1/01/06
Posts: 195

3/09/13 6:48:16 PM#110
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Originally posted by Kuldebar
Originally posted by dynamicipftw
Originally posted by Kuldebar
Originally posted by dynamicipftw

I just remembered: WAR had a thing where if you ran infront of someone for 5 seconds you would go through him. Isn't that ridiculous? 

 

Only ridiculous in that you think it's relevant to the discussion of collision detection.

Of course it's relevant. You collide for 5 seconds but then you don't? How does that not completely destroy immersion?

OK you said "collide" now, before you said "in front of" -there's a difference.

Colliding and then passing through is a type of collision detection called "mud". It allows a slowdown and then a pass through an intersection. This is done for a reason, it's speed bumping. The "stone" CD method wouldn't let that happen at all. The "Water" method would make it completely fluid with no slow down, etc.

If you would pass through some one just because you were in front of them, that would simply be a client server glitch.

stone for enemies / mud for friendlies works for me

I never had an issue with that in WAR.  It seemed like a reasonable implementation of CD.  Now how much that contributed to the lag problem is something only the people actually working on it can say. 

If it can't be done properly, than don't do it... but if it will work, by all means implement it.  It gives weight (sorry) to the choice of choosing a larger or smaller race-type.  It adds some realism to the actual tactics of melee.

Now, maybe there is a certain 'player density' point where it should cut out or switch to a more simplified mechanic to optimize server response.  Again, we won't know what the game is going to be able to handle yet.   I doubt they even know what hardware they're going to be running this on at this point...

  dynamicipftw

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/26/12
Posts: 216

3/09/13 7:01:22 PM#111
You can't have CD without action combat. We know CU won't have action combat which also means no CD.
  Stromm

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 250

3/09/13 7:03:39 PM#112
U will Detect ma Collidez!
  Tumblebutz

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 338

3/09/13 7:06:38 PM#113
Originally posted by dynamicipftw
You can't have CD without action combat. We know CU won't have action combat which also means no CD.

What color is the sky in your universe?

Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival

RED IS DEAD!

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

3/09/13 7:07:28 PM#114
What the hell has cd got to do with action combat?

Its like saying you can't have sandwiches without hats.
  Dane_Wilding

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 16

3/09/13 7:16:30 PM#115
Maybe if we ignore him he'll go away.
  Stromm

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 250

3/09/13 7:23:20 PM#116
Originally posted by Hairyzac

I would imagine there will not be collision detection when running into other player characters in this game for a number of reasons.  Some which have already been mentioned in this thread.  People have already stated they won't be playing this game if it has this type of CD, and I sadly would be put into that category.  People wanting this type of CD will still play if it isn't implemented.  So the obvious choice in my opinion is to choose against it if you are trying to get people to back your Kickstarter.

 

Personally I'm glad this was brought up.  I feel like we need a concrete answer on this from Mr. Jacobs before the Kickstarter begins.  I'd imagine he is following this thread or will be by Mon/Tues.  It would be nice to hear what he has to say about it.  To me this is a deal breaker.  I personally don't want to be bumping into my friends or enemies in game.  But CD should exist between you and ALL terrain.  So any object can be used as line of sight.

I'm gonna suggest that MJ is in no position to be offering concrete answers to any questions like this. They are so far away from even a prototype game. They haven't even worked out a tech solution to rendering/lag issues for large scale combat yet.

I think at this point MJ is just splashing around ideas and intentions to generate discussion/hype/advertising for the KS.

I expect his answer would be similar marketing speak to the stealth question, "I'm aware of the division in the community over this subject, and part of me wants it in, part wants it out, I'm gonna come up with a new and effective way of doing it that makes everyone happy".

Would be happy and surprised if he did post a concrete answer.

  Odaman

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/13
Posts: 195

3/09/13 7:36:33 PM#117

This is why I said make it a poll. It just becomes two groups of idiots telling each other they're wrong. 

  Dane_Wilding

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 16

3/09/13 7:38:29 PM#118
Originally posted by Odaman
This is why I said make it a poll. It just becomes two groups of idiots telling each other they're wrong.

There is a poll up on reddit if you have an account. As of right now having CD is the most favored. 

http://www.reddit.com/r/YesNo/comments/19xxdt/collision_detection_system_in_camelot_unchained/

  dynamicipftw

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/26/12
Posts: 216

3/09/13 7:43:34 PM#119
Originally posted by Odaman
This is why I said make it a poll. It just becomes two groups of idiots telling each other they're wrong.

We already had a poll: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5561495#5561495

 

Most people (70%) want DAoC-like combat = No CD

  Kuldebar

Novice Member

Joined: 2/11/13
Posts: 65

 
OP  3/09/13 7:48:44 PM#120
Originally posted by dynamicipftw
Originally posted by Odaman
This is why I said make it a poll. It just becomes two groups of idiots telling each other they're wrong.

We already had a poll: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5561495#5561495

 

Most people (70%) want DAoC-like combat = No CD

Having CD doesn't make it not be DAoC style combat. Collision Detection is an environmental setting. It could be exactly like DAoC (I hope it isn't, personally) and still have CD.

 

 

Those who tread with ill intent
Beneath our sacred firmament,
Whether of Hammer or of Tree,
Albion's might shall strike at thee!

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