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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Collision Detection in Camelot Unchained: Yes or No?

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291 posts found
  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5352

3/09/13 8:42:12 AM#21

The only CD system that worked on a massive scale was PS1 - but it was done client side so it was easily hackable.

Doing CD the right way requires server side code, which introduces delay due to server side processing in large battles which sucks.

 

So based on the above I vote NO as there is no good way of implementing this for an rvr game.

If CU has CD, I will be staying away.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

3/09/13 8:51:23 AM#22
Yes please

It's one of the few things war did right. Having cd makes your wow style bunny hopping, fig 8ing and step inside and spam aoe "skills" pointless.
  Odaman

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/13
Posts: 195

3/09/13 10:50:41 AM#23

No. Btw maybe it should just be a poll at this point =p

CD in war was trash and easy to get around most of the time. Not to mention with CD you need things to move people like kb and pull which I really don't want to see either.

  paulocafalli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/11/05
Posts: 258

3/09/13 11:58:42 AM#24
CD amkes the game so much more realistic, I say yes to CD.
paulocafalli Xfire Miniprofile
  Odaman

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/13
Posts: 195

3/09/13 12:21:45 PM#25
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Yes please

It's one of the few things war did right. Having cd makes your wow style bunny hopping, fig 8ing and step inside and spam aoe "skills" pointless.

Actually CD makes you bunny hop more. In war it was a major counter to CD so goodluck with the bunny hopping hate if they put it in lol

  Kuldebar

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/11/13
Posts: 67

 
OP  3/09/13 12:23:07 PM#26
Originally posted by dynamicipftw
Originally posted by Niix_Ozek
No, if CD is in this game I won't be playing
I'm not playing a 200v200 battle where every time you move you hit a wall
Not to mention all the bugs and problems with this system being implemented with the low budget they have

This isn't the "solution" to tanks
Go play daoc people ugh

Seriously... if someone played both WAR and DAoC and thinks CD is a good idea he must be clinically insane. 

I guess I am insane.

 

DAoC's situation was extremely frustrating to casters, the "run through" problem to go LOS so casters lost target was a big stinking pile. Casters already had quite the handicap on the battlefield with the interupt code in the first few years of the game, the cheap move of walking through you enemy just as his cast completed did not sit well with me and others.

 

People are conflating WAR, Age of Conan and other games that had performance issues or other flaws with having collision detection system. The problems CD have are of the exception type, where certain game objects have the wrong values on the filter.

 

Yes, you can have problems, but the larger issues are games that don't render enemy players so you can't see them.

 

A comment: by bmacisaac states it rather well:

It's even to the point where nobody who plays GW2 WvW even tries to defend anything. There's no point in defending your keep when it's much much easier and quicker just to attack one and trade keeps instead. There's no point in dividing your force to take multiple objectives, small groups are totally ineffective against larger groups. Basically zerging is the only valid and effective tactic, and that's not the game I want to play. Everything CU can do to limit the zerg is a GOOD thing, and collision is most certainly one of those things.

Those who tread with ill intent
Beneath our sacred firmament,
Whether of Hammer or of Tree,
Albion's might shall strike at thee!

  Kuldebar

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/11/13
Posts: 67

 
OP  3/09/13 12:28:04 PM#27
Originally posted by Odaman
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Yes please

It's one of the few things war did right. Having cd makes your wow style bunny hopping, fig 8ing and step inside and spam aoe "skills" pointless.

Actually CD makes you bunny hop more. In war it was a major counter to CD so goodluck with the bunny hopping hate if they put it in lol

 

Depends on the CD filter, the "stone" method can cause issues like you describe in your bunny hopping.  (As in literally being snagged by small objects on the surface of the terrain, thus moving in a hopping manner)

 

There are different blends.

 

BTW Every game in existence has collison detection, it's just usually turned off so as to not involve  the intersection of player characters.

Collision Detection is a filtering process and can be highly customized and tuned.

Those who tread with ill intent
Beneath our sacred firmament,
Whether of Hammer or of Tree,
Albion's might shall strike at thee!

  Hardanger

Novice Member

Joined: 6/06/09
Posts: 228

3/09/13 12:30:02 PM#28

Yes.

 

I mean come on.

  Plastic-Metal

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 423

3/09/13 12:31:55 PM#29
Originally posted by dynamicipftw

NO.

Didn't work for WAR

Didn't work for TERA

Won't work for CU

It's a terrible idea.

NO.

CONSERVE THE OLD WAYS, NO ROOM FOR NEW THOUGHT!

I wouldn't necessarily push collision detection away outright simply because we don't know what game engine they'll pick or any of the fundamental core mechanics within the game.  It's too early to say absolute yes or no.

There's significant benefit in using a CD system, but there's also significant disadvantages; until the game is in a vertical slice stage, it's too early.

My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

  JimmyYO

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/11
Posts: 541

3/09/13 12:37:31 PM#30
I'd have to say no for the most part other then maybe a bump on your screen when you pass another player, similiar to EQ 1. When you go full retard on the collision it just makes the game far less enjoyable and from past examples is very clunky and poorly done.
  Marcus-

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/28/06
Posts: 968

3/09/13 12:43:12 PM#31
Yes please..

Nothing quite like pulling on the 'ol shield to defend your fort against a slightly larger force, and then watching them right through you to their objective. :/

Uhg.
  bansan

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 371

3/09/13 12:59:14 PM#32

Only if the technology can support it now.  If it can't, then the game will be a mess.

GW2 intended to have it, but they took it out because of technical problems.  I can only imagine though, if it works.  Zergs wouldn't be as effective, especially trying to rush through seige doors.  Running behind another player so they get hit by a projectile aimed at you.  You have more chances against a larger force because they can't just run through each other to get at and surround you.  Then again, if you allow yourself to be surround, escape is harder.

Ah, the possibilities.

  Veighnerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/06
Posts: 40

3/09/13 1:10:16 PM#33
I am not opposed to having CD in this game, but what of the larger races? Will one side have a race such as trolls which only take 1 or 2 people to completely block a passageway/doorway/etc? Would all the hitboxes be equal or would they scale based on character size. Can I jump over a small race for example the Lurikeens and Dwarves from DAoC?

TSW - Daemon Server
Waiting on Camelot Unchained!

  WabbaWay

Novice Member

Joined: 3/21/12
Posts: 103

3/09/13 1:12:06 PM#34

Yes if they can implement it right and it works for enemies and allies alike. Perhaps smaller collision range for allies but it has to be there.

 

And to all those saying CD was bad in WAR... Yes, but the game would have been worse without it... And holy shit imagine that game being worse! =D Still managed to enjoy the fuck out of the RvR though, crazy game.

  Kuldebar

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/11/13
Posts: 67

 
OP  3/09/13 1:13:30 PM#35
Originally posted by bansan

Only if the technology can support it now.  If it can't, then the game will be a mess.

GW2 intended to have it, but they took it out because of technical problems.  I can only imagine though, if it works.  Zergs wouldn't be as effective, especially trying to rush through seige doors.  Running behind another player so they get hit by a projectile aimed at you.  You have more chances against a larger force because they can't just run through each other to get at and surround you.  Then again, if you allow yourself to be surround, escape is harder.

Ah, the possibilities.

 

Yeah, GW2's culling issues are also being a major pain to resolve; ANet is now at the point where they will be turning off culling completely in a future patch.

 

I don't think anyone who supports CD wants it if the engine simply can't handle it. But, we are talking about something to strive for and make happen if at all possible. Adding these things like collision detection, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.

 

;)

Those who tread with ill intent
Beneath our sacred firmament,
Whether of Hammer or of Tree,
Albion's might shall strike at thee!

  dynamicipftw

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/26/12
Posts: 216

3/09/13 1:17:02 PM#36
In theory it sounds great. In practice it just doesn't work. Maybe in 30-40 years when we have matrix-style full virtual reality.
  CyborWolfTK

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 80

3/09/13 1:18:24 PM#37

 

I want it.

But I think server performence is even more important.

People with not so good latency are going to see "rubberbanding",

unless they can come up with a clever way impliment it.

 

Either way, presents challenges and obsticals that the team is going to have to overcome.

  Kuldebar

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/11/13
Posts: 67

 
OP  3/09/13 1:23:35 PM#38
Originally posted by dynamicipftw
In theory it sounds great. In practice it just doesn't work. Maybe in 30-40 years when we have matrix-style full virtual reality.

Piffle!

 

Games have had collision detection since video gaming began, what's at issue is how that filtering is applied and tweaked for the specific game.

Collision detection is not a new concept and yet at the moment its being over hyped as a feature in this year's upcoming MMO releases. The reason for this is that both Warhammer and Age of Conan are more PvP oriented then traditional MMOs have been in the past. In PvE oriented games the ability for virtual objects to recognize physical boundaries is interesting but doesn't really have a huge impact on game play. This changes when players are actually fighting each other since there are interesting ways to exploit the lack of collision of detection to avoid taking damage from spells.

MMOs like World of Warcraft are always going to have their PvP game crippled by not having collision detection. Melee classes are amoung the most popular and they can use line of sight and a lack of collision detection to take advatage of casters. This can be seen in how poorly casters with long casting spells perform in the arenas. Targets can simply step inside of a player right before the spell goes off to avoid its effects. This tactic is less effective in open world fighting where escape is an option but it's always going to be prevalent in environments like the arenas.
   -Butting Heads: Collision Detection in MMOs

 

 

Those who tread with ill intent
Beneath our sacred firmament,
Whether of Hammer or of Tree,
Albion's might shall strike at thee!

  Tumblebutz

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 338

3/09/13 1:27:04 PM#39

I can see the problems on both sides of the issue. 

-No CD means masses of enemies running through any sort of defense that can be set up and really making it a numbers game, which no one wants.  Additionally, it allows for LoS exploits which no one wants, either.

-Bad CD makes it a lag fest and makes large scale battles unbearable for most players, especially those without AoE.

-Even good CD can be really frustrating if a few heavy tanks with a few dedicated healers can completely block a passage from an entire army.  (Imagine what the milegates would have been like with CD!)

The bottom line is this:  If there is going to be CD, the engine MUST be able to handle it without creating too much lag for players.  AND, the Tank/Healer dynamic must allow for a blockade to be penetrable at some point.

Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival

RED IS DEAD!

  Rhoklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/12/04
Posts: 3036

$500 Backer to 2015's Top New MMO... The Repopulation!

3/09/13 1:33:34 PM#40

Collision Detection is not needed since it wasn't needed in the original DAoC. In my opinion, I would prefer the Crowd Control approach instead for a PvP focused game. Collision Detection while more realistic just isn't fleshed out yet in MMO's. Sure EQ had it but EQ was a PvE focused game. Last thing I want to see is an impenetrable wall of tanks with an army of healers behind them guarding fortress gates. PS and PS2 have CD as well and let me tell you, it's more annoying then it is fun. Especially with people grief blocking you inside a building. So to solve that, you'ld need to implement friendly damage, just like PS and PS2 have and now you have a griefers paradise.

No Thanks!

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