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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Collision Detection in Camelot Unchained: Yes or No?

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291 posts found
  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

4/14/13 1:39:49 AM#281
I have mentioned that idea as well, think it solves a lot while not crushing other elements of 200v200 battles
Just make their defense increase have their chars put their shield up and not be able to attack
Has to be limited to require coordination *cough^* skill

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  Stiler

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 592

4/14/13 2:48:18 AM#282

I'd like to know what "tactics/skills" a lack of CD ADDS to the game? Can yout ell me?

 

Bceaues you seem to have been rampant throughout this thread knocking down all CD supporters and throwing arguments up about how CD doe sthis bad/this wrong, but at the same time, what does non-CU ADD to the game?

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2406

4/14/13 9:26:10 AM#283
Originally posted by Stiler

I'd like to know what "tactics/skills" a lack of CD ADDS to the game? Can yout ell me?

 

It doesn't take away any tactics, but adds quite a few.

 

Most of the people in this thread are speaking from fear and have never played a game with proper CD.

 

Darkfall has proper CD and it works like a dream.

  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

4/14/13 10:37:04 AM#284
I've said many times it does add or subtract tactics
It simply changes tactics one should employ
You either form a wall and fight until you push them back or have groups speed in and try to bomb healers
Etc. cd doesn't add any tactics... Just simply forces you to use certain ones because it becomes so OP

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  boxfetish

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 81

4/14/13 8:50:01 PM#285
Originally posted by Riannes

I mentioned what I thought re CD on CU comment section but I will say it again here.

what we need is 'on-demand' collision detection.

in massive battles, full scale collision detection will put too much load on performance.

but at the same time, collision detection could add a lot of goods to strategic team play .

if it were my decision, i would let tank classes have some kind of short duration self activation buff,

when triggered it activate collision detection on self and also some complimentary effect (like +armor etc.).

not saying the only solution is to pair CD with self buff but 'on demand' CD could be a viable way to do it.

(CD on enemy only. not friendly)

/Siber

Okay, but only if the anti-CD apostates will stop suggesting a completely ridiculous 'on-demand' CD like "lasts for 5 seconds and then it's on a 10 minute cooldown".  That's garbage and they know it.   As long as the on-demand collision detection is a passive stance or maybe an "activate once and it stays activated until the siege is over" mechanic then it might be an acceptable work-around.   Still, full-on, constant CD is best if it can be put in the game without affecting performance too much.   

Now that I think about it, I rather do like the idea of all tanks having a 'Defense' or 'Siege' stance that they can activate indefinitely that boosts armor, lowers damage and makes them 'stone' to all hostiles and 'mud' to all friendlies.

 

 

Originally posted by Niix_Ozek
I've said many times it does add or subtract tactics
It simply changes tactics one should employ
You either form a wall and fight until you push them back or have groups speed in and try to bomb healers
Etc. cd doesn't add any tactics... Just simply forces you to use certain ones because it becomes so OP

You're terrible at this whole debate thing.  Suspiciously terrible.  I want to understand, but reasons are not being offered.  What's the agenda?  Skill-less melee DPS or AoE caster spam garbage will go away and tactics will need to be relearned?   That's not it?  Okay, are some folks just befuddled DAoC idolaters that cannot fathom something being any other way than the way DAoC had it.  What gives?

 

 

Originally posted by naezgul
Originally posted by boxfetish

Really the only argument against CD that isn't nonsense is the lag or technical implementation argument.  And that isn't an argument against CD it's an argument against lag or other issues due to shitty implementation.  And that argument falls to pieces if an engine is built from the ground up with collision detection in mind.  

You are making arguments that don't make any sense.  Healers and ranged are having their hands held with CD in?  I...no...it doesn't even make any sense.  You might as well have said that CD is hand-holding because your mom's favorite color is pink.

I can only think of two reasons why someone would argue against collision detection in a game that was designed for it:

1.  They have such DAoC blinders on for that 12 year old game that they can't even be rational about the limitations of the time that it was developed and simply blindy insist everything must be as DAoC had it without even thinking about it specifically.

or

2. They know full well that CD is everything that the pro-CDers argue it is but they have an ulterior motive for wanting it kept out and for dumbing down of RvR (like, for example, they play melee-DPS or AoE DPS and can't do the blind-zerg, circle-jerk, button mash easy-kill spam with CD in the game).

I still can't believe this is even contentious.  Stealth, yes.  No Pve, sure.  But this?   

Sorry box......no CD and no logging on in TD when it flips........;)

I think you may have a real RvR game (i.e. CU) confused with the game that you want  it to be (one with hand-holding and other easy-mode, no-risk, no-effort mechanics).  I know you are just trolling with the 'TD when it flips' comment and the wink, but if you understand (not just read, but honestly understand) the foundational principles you can't possibly come to the conclusion that CSE is going to implement features that will dumb-down RvR (no-CD) or save the fake PvPers from the big-bad stealthers (i.e., no log in to TD after flip).    My 2 cents.

 

 

 

Originally posted by DavisFlight
Most of the people in this thread are speaking from fear and have never played a game with proper CD.   Darkfall has proper CD and it works like a dream.

QFT.  But most of them wouldn't play Darkfall to even get a clue what good CD is like as then they would also have to play a game with real PvP and would no longer be able to use the chicken-little-Warhammer argument against CD.   It should be clear by now that on some level a desire to water down and enervate robust and challenging RvR/PvP is at the root of this "no collision detection" spectacle.

  naezgul

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 389

4/14/13 9:05:28 PM#286
Originally posted by boxfetish
Originally posted by Riannes

I mentioned what I thought re CD on CU comment section but I will say it again here.

what we need is 'on-demand' collision detection.

in massive battles, full scale collision detection will put too much load on performance.

but at the same time, collision detection could add a lot of goods to strategic team play .

if it were my decision, i would let tank classes have some kind of short duration self activation buff,

when triggered it activate collision detection on self and also some complimentary effect (like +armor etc.).

not saying the only solution is to pair CD with self buff but 'on demand' CD could be a viable way to do it.

(CD on enemy only. not friendly)

/Siber

Okay, but only if the anti-CD apostates will stop suggesting a completely ridiculous 'on-demand' CD like "lasts for 5 seconds and then it's on a 10 minute cooldown".  That's garbage and they know it.   As long as the on-demand collision detection is a passive stance or maybe an "activate once and it stays activated until the siege is over" mechanic then it might be an acceptable work-around.   Still, full-on, constant CD is best if it can be put in the game without affecting performance too much.

 

 

 

Originally posted by Niix_Ozek
I've said many times it does add or subtract tactics
It simply changes tactics one should employ
You either form a wall and fight until you push them back or have groups speed in and try to bomb healers
Etc. cd doesn't add any tactics... Just simply forces you to use certain ones because it becomes so OP

You're terrible at this whole debate thing.  Suspiciously terrible.  I want to understand, but reasons are not being offered.  What's the agenda?  Skill-less melee DPS or AoE caster spam garbage will go away and tactics will need to be relearned?   That's not it?  Okay, are some folks just befuddled DAoC idolaters that cannot fathom something being any other way than the way DAoC had it.  What gives?

 

 

Originally posted by naezgul
Originally posted by boxfetish

Really the only argument against CD that isn't nonsense is the lag or technical implementation argument.  And that isn't an argument against CD it's an argument against lag or other issues due to shitty implementation.  And that argument falls to pieces if an engine is built from the ground up with collision detection in mind.  

You are making arguments that don't make any sense.  Healers and ranged are having their hands held with CD in?  I...no...it doesn't even make any sense.  You might as well have said that CD is hand-holding because your mom's favorite color is pink.

I can only think of two reasons why someone would argue against collision detection in a game that was designed for it:

1.  They have such DAoC blinders on for that 12 year old game that they can't even be rational about the limitations of the time that it was developed and simply blindy insist everything must be as DAoC had it without even thinking about it specifically.

or

2. They know full well that CD is everything that the pro-CDers argue it is but they have an ulterior motive for wanting it kept out and for dumbing down of RvR (like, for example, they play melee-DPS or AoE DPS and can't do the blind-zerg, circle-jerk, button mash easy-kill spam with CD in the game).

I still can't believe this is even contentious.  Stealth, yes.  No Pve, sure.  But this?   

Sorry box......no CD and no logging on in TD when it flips........;)

I think you may have a real RvR game (i.e. CU) confused with the game that you want  it to be (one with hand-holding and other easy-mode, no-risk, no-work mechanics).  I know you are just trolling with the 'TD when in flips' comment and the wink, but if you understand (not just read, but honestly understand) the foundational principles you can't possibly come to the conclusion that CSE is going to implement features that will dumb-down RvR (no-CD) or save the fake PvPers from the big-bad stealthers (i.e., no log in to TD after flip).    My 2 cents.

 

 

 

 
 

Never said I wanted it or it will happen, just said it's possible or some reason they choose that you cannot log in the zone if your side no longer owns it.

as far as CD goes, gotta say with my experience from games with it, brings nothing to the table for me and leads to long boring sstandoffs you wanna go the extra mile? Give characters mass and when you have a 1000# troll running full steam at a couple of 200# humans make sure they are pushed back 

  Delavega86

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/06
Posts: 114

4/26/13 9:38:35 PM#287

it needs to be in everything. projectiles, enemies, allies.

 

it makes you pay more attention.

it allows for altruistic team play and encourages holding a formation.

it allows for tactical formations at strategic locations. also helps a bit the outnumbered side.

it discourages zerging and encourages splitting up your big army to separate groups to trick or flank or open up enemy lines.

it prevents "blobs". like everyone being on top of each other, steamrolling everything, or 100 people hiding where only one would fit.

 

the only excuse for not having it is that players might troll/grief allies.

this can be easily prevented by removing ally-collision when out of combat in non-RvR areas like in WAR.

  Zinzan

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/06
Posts: 1368

4/27/13 12:07:09 AM#288
Originally posted by EL_Sirios

it needs to be in everything. projectiles, enemies, allies.

 

it makes you pay more attention.

it allows for altruistic team play and encourages holding a formation.

it allows for tactical formations at strategic locations. also helps a bit the outnumbered side.

it discourages zerging and encourages splitting up your big army to separate groups to trick or flank or open up enemy lines.

it prevents "blobs". like everyone being on top of each other, steamrolling everything, or 100 people hiding where only one would fit.

 

the only excuse for not having it is that players might troll/grief allies.

this can be easily prevented by removing ally-collision when out of combat in non-RvR areas like in WAR.

I don't think there will be many, if any non rvr zones, its a pure rvr game so boxing griefing could be quite a real prospect if not implemented properly.

It won't stop zeroing, not one bit.

Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  Stiler

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 592

4/27/13 1:20:51 AM#289

You can easily stop the same realm grief potential of CD by doing like Age of Conan. Where you can "crouch" to walk through aanother player, however this is slower (obviously) and also leaves you vunerable to take more damage, .

 

  Axxar

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 1942

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

4/27/13 1:26:57 AM#290
They had CD in for the network tech demo, so it looks like they're very interested in having this in the game. I think that's great as long as they can keep it from being glitchy like in WAR. If they can't achieve that, I'd rather the cut it.

Currently playing: Divinity: Original Sin, FTL, Hearthstone and Skyrim.
Eagerly anticipating: Camelot Unchained, Elite: Dangerous, Legend of Grimrock 2 and Star Citizen.

  Zinzan

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/06
Posts: 1368

4/27/13 1:39:47 AM#291
Originally posted by Axxar
They had CD in for the network tech demo, so it looks like they're very interested in having this in the game. I think that's great as long as they can keep it from being glitchy like in WAR. If they can't achieve that, I'd rather the cut it.

Completely agree, if I have to watch another bunch of morons claiming "funnelling" is a valid strategy and not CD abuse I'm not interested.

Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

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