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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Bite-size gaming .. the future of MMO?

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466 posts found
  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4824

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

3/07/13 6:56:50 PM#41
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Where do you read that i want to change open world MMORPGs?

Of course i play the many games available for me .. i never hid that .. i play D3, PoE, STO, Dead Space 3 ......

And it is fair game to express my opinion of which games i find fun, just like the other guy. This thread is about the trend i have seen, not a plead to change things.

Gaming is pretty fun to me. Why should i want to change things? There are more games than i have time for anyway.

Hmm well this quote from your first post surely implies to me that you think they should change "MMO devs certainly should feel pressured by some of these non-MMOs where the playstyle can be quite similar to MMOs. It is a time to adapt and change."

This is a general statement about the adapting to survive in the marketplace. That is different from "I *want* them to change due to personal preference".

Don't you think devs should adapt to the market place, given the competition, no matter what you personal preference is?

No actually I don't, otherwise we will all end up with less choice, kinda like having nothing but Targets and Wal-Marts to shop at instead of specialized shops that give us those unique items that large chains don't see a "market" for.  Just because the masses want something doesn't mean we all do nor should we.  Just think of some of the inventions we've seen in our own lifetimes because some"one" decided the status quo wasn't quite cutting if for them?  Maybe we should all go back to the days of walking... going faster, farther, and with less effort due to someone being dissatified with what the masses did, what a concept eh?

 Status Quo and what the market wants ae two different issues.  Sometimes they are the same, sometimes not.

I would counter with your walking example and say many many were not satisfied with the status quo and so when something new came along they were intrigued enough to look anyway.

Any company that does not follow their market and change with their market will die, without exception.   That doesn't mean that the companies all have to follow the herd remainor remain status quo... it does mean that once they identify their market, whichever market it is, if that market changes and they don't the company will die.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12267

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

3/07/13 6:57:04 PM#42
Originally posted by nariusseldon

MMO devs certainly should feel pressured by some of these non-MMOs where the playstyle can be quite similar to MMOs. It is a time to adapt and change.

Time to adapt and change simply because the world has moved on. EVERYTHING is done in 30-second to 15-minute sessions. Facebook, Twitter, Texting, every aspect of our lives has been reduced to much smaller and much faster  segments of information, entertainment and business.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Aeolyn

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/08
Posts: 136

3/07/13 7:26:38 PM#43
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Where do you read that i want to change open world MMORPGs?

Of course i play the many games available for me .. i never hid that .. i play D3, PoE, STO, Dead Space 3 ......

And it is fair game to express my opinion of which games i find fun, just like the other guy. This thread is about the trend i have seen, not a plead to change things.

Gaming is pretty fun to me. Why should i want to change things? There are more games than i have time for anyway.

Hmm well this quote from your first post surely implies to me that you think they should change "MMO devs certainly should feel pressured by some of these non-MMOs where the playstyle can be quite similar to MMOs. It is a time to adapt and change."

This is a general statement about the adapting to survive in the marketplace. That is different from "I *want* them to change due to personal preference".

Don't you think devs should adapt to the market place, given the competition, no matter what you personal preference is?

No actually I don't, otherwise we will all end up with less choice, kinda like having nothing but Targets and Wal-Marts to shop at instead of specialized shops that give us those unique items that large chains don't see a "market" for.  Just because the masses want something doesn't mean we all do nor should we.  Just think of some of the inventions we've seen in our own lifetimes because some"one" decided the status quo wasn't quite cutting if for them?  Maybe we should all go back to the days of walking... going faster, farther, and with less effort due to someone being dissatified with what the masses did, what a concept eh?

 Status Quo and what the market wants ae two different issues.  Sometimes they are the same, sometimes not.

I would counter with your walking example and say many many were not satisfied with the status quo and so when something new came along they were intrigued enough to look anyway.

Any company that does not follow their market and change with their market will die, without exception.   That doesn't mean that the companies all have to follow the herd remainor remain status quo... it does mean that once they identify their market, whichever market it is, if that market changes and they don't the company will die.

The whole problem with this whole argument is who exactly decides that the "market" has changed?  Does the whole market get a say or is it strictly the bean counters that say that since some are willing to swallow hook, line and sinker anything new the rest will follow and damn the rest?  Or will there be some who are willing to stand their ground and say heh, we have a loyal following that do not want to rush to endgame but want to live in our virtual world and help us develop new activities and lore as we move forward together and those players provide more than enough profit for us?

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

3/07/13 7:27:45 PM#44
Originally posted by Sovrath

The last sentence is of course true but better sales doesn't necessarily mean that lesser sales will still make it successful.

Well, look at EVE. the game is what it is. The developers have tried to make the learning curve a bit more palatable but the game is this incredibly deep universe of player interaction. They don't have millions of players. They basically made the game they wanted and then allowed players do discover it.

I don't see why someone couldn't make a game that had more in depth, longer game play experiences and the demographic for those experiences would then play that game provided they did a good job.

I mean "I" would be able to play a game that had longer experiences. Are you saying that I'm the only person left on the planet who is willing to do that? Or maybe there are two of us? And if there are two of us might there not be more? 90k people maybe?

Of course one might have to temper their expectations as far as how "shiny" the game is compared to AAA games out there who might try for millions.

Of course you're not the only one.  Like I said in my prior post: the demographic starts small and gets even smaller due to its overlap with short-session games (which let you play exactly as long as you want, and therefore satisfy both types of players.)

Small doesn't mean nonexistant, but there's really almost no benefit to intentionally cutting off a massive amount of players.  Very few types of experiences require long sessions.  I've had those experiences, and honestly prefer smaller sessions (of course the overall quality of moment-to-moment gameplay, regardless of session length, is by far the most important element.  But given a choice I'd choose a game which offered me more freedom over how long I can play.)

 

  Aeolyn

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/08
Posts: 136

3/07/13 7:27:56 PM#45
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by nariusseldon

MMO devs certainly should feel pressured by some of these non-MMOs where the playstyle can be quite similar to MMOs. It is a time to adapt and change.

Time to adapt and change simply because the world has moved on. EVERYTHING is done in 30-second to 15-minute sessions. Facebook, Twitter, Texting, every aspect of our lives has been reduced to much smaller and much faster  segments of information, entertainment and business.

Not everyone... in fact it's the minority that even subscribes to these ad infested mediums.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19094

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

3/07/13 7:29:57 PM#46
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by nariusseldon

MMO devs certainly should feel pressured by some of these non-MMOs where the playstyle can be quite similar to MMOs. It is a time to adapt and change.

Time to adapt and change simply because the world has moved on. EVERYTHING is done in 30-second to 15-minute sessions. Facebook, Twitter, Texting, every aspect of our lives has been reduced to much smaller and much faster  segments of information, entertainment and business.

But at the end of the day, is it really better?

Arrogant, Dismissive, Elitist, you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4824

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

3/07/13 7:31:06 PM#47
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Where do you read that i want to change open world MMORPGs?

Of course i play the many games available for me .. i never hid that .. i play D3, PoE, STO, Dead Space 3 ......

And it is fair game to express my opinion of which games i find fun, just like the other guy. This thread is about the trend i have seen, not a plead to change things.

Gaming is pretty fun to me. Why should i want to change things? There are more games than i have time for anyway.

Hmm well this quote from your first post surely implies to me that you think they should change "MMO devs certainly should feel pressured by some of these non-MMOs where the playstyle can be quite similar to MMOs. It is a time to adapt and change."

This is a general statement about the adapting to survive in the marketplace. That is different from "I *want* them to change due to personal preference".

Don't you think devs should adapt to the market place, given the competition, no matter what you personal preference is?

No actually I don't, otherwise we will all end up with less choice, kinda like having nothing but Targets and Wal-Marts to shop at instead of specialized shops that give us those unique items that large chains don't see a "market" for.  Just because the masses want something doesn't mean we all do nor should we.  Just think of some of the inventions we've seen in our own lifetimes because some"one" decided the status quo wasn't quite cutting if for them?  Maybe we should all go back to the days of walking... going faster, farther, and with less effort due to someone being dissatified with what the masses did, what a concept eh?

 Status Quo and what the market wants ae two different issues.  Sometimes they are the same, sometimes not.

I would counter with your walking example and say many many were not satisfied with the status quo and so when something new came along they were intrigued enough to look anyway.

Any company that does not follow their market and change with their market will die, without exception.   That doesn't mean that the companies all have to follow the herd remainor remain status quo... it does mean that once they identify their market, whichever market it is, if that market changes and they don't the company will die.

The whole problem with this whole argument is who exactly decides that the "market" has changed?  Does the whole market get a say or is it strictly the bean counters that say that since some are willing to swallow hook, line and sinker anything new the rest will follow and damn the rest?  Or will there be some who are willing to stand their ground and say heh, we have a loyal following that do not want to rush to endgame but want to live in our virtual world and help us develop new activities and lore as we move forward together and those players provide more than enough profit for us?

 There is only one objective measure of what the market wants and that is sales.  Thats it.  The number of sales of a particular product is the determination of what the market wants.

And I said the company needs to determine what their market wants.  In the case of MMO's a particular company's market may not be all gamers, or wow players.  Eve's market is probably different than WoW's market, although there is overlap.  But the rule applies if your market changes and you don't your company will go under.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

3/07/13 7:38:23 PM#48
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Sovrath

I don't see why someone couldn't make a game that had more in depth, longer game play experiences and the demographic for those experiences would then play that game provided they did a good job.

I don't see what depth has to do with the option of short game sessions.

Break up a dungeon of 4 bosses into 4 independent part do NOT change the depth of the combat experience with each of them. Think about a dungeon with 4 boss that takes you 2 hours to go through. What if now there is a save point after each boss, so you can kill one, go have dinner, and come back for the next one.

There is no change in terms of depth, challenge, except it is more convenient.

In fact, play-time has nothing to do with challenge. A 5 min encounter with an elite or ubder boss on MP10 in D3 (which can be played in 15 min) is more challenging than 3 hours dungeon runs.

well 5 minutes is a bit short, but say 30 mins, i kinda agree with you here.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

3/07/13 7:41:37 PM#49
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Where do you read that i want to change open world MMORPGs?

Of course i play the many games available for me .. i never hid that .. i play D3, PoE, STO, Dead Space 3 ......

And it is fair game to express my opinion of which games i find fun, just like the other guy. This thread is about the trend i have seen, not a plead to change things.

Gaming is pretty fun to me. Why should i want to change things? There are more games than i have time for anyway.

Hmm well this quote from your first post surely implies to me that you think they should change "MMO devs certainly should feel pressured by some of these non-MMOs where the playstyle can be quite similar to MMOs. It is a time to adapt and change."

This is a general statement about the adapting to survive in the marketplace. That is different from "I *want* them to change due to personal preference".

Don't you think devs should adapt to the market place, given the competition, no matter what you personal preference is?

No actually I don't, otherwise we will all end up with less choice, kinda like having nothing but Targets and Wal-Marts to shop at instead of specialized shops that give us those unique items that large chains don't see a "market" for.  Just because the masses want something doesn't mean we all do nor should we.  Just think of some of the inventions we've seen in our own lifetimes because some"one" decided the status quo wasn't quite cutting if for them?  Maybe we should all go back to the days of walking... going faster, farther, and with less effort due to someone being dissatified with what the masses did, what a concept eh?

 Status Quo and what the market wants ae two different issues.  Sometimes they are the same, sometimes not.

I would counter with your walking example and say many many were not satisfied with the status quo and so when something new came along they were intrigued enough to look anyway.

Any company that does not follow their market and change with their market will die, without exception.   That doesn't mean that the companies all have to follow the herd remainor remain status quo... it does mean that once they identify their market, whichever market it is, if that market changes and they don't the company will die.

The whole problem with this whole argument is who exactly decides that the "market" has changed?  Does the whole market get a say or is it strictly the bean counters that say that since some are willing to swallow hook, line and sinker anything new the rest will follow and damn the rest?  Or will there be some who are willing to stand their ground and say heh, we have a loyal following that do not want to rush to endgame but want to live in our virtual world and help us develop new activities and lore as we move forward together and those players provide more than enough profit for us?

 There is only one objective measure of what the market wants and that is sales.  Thats it.  The number of sales of a particular product is the determination of what the market wants.

And I said the company needs to determine what their market wants.  In the case of MMO's a particular company's market may not be all gamers, or wow players.  Eve's market is probably different than WoW's market, although there is overlap.  But the rule applies if your market changes and you don't your company will go under.

hence the emphasis on flashy cutscenes, voice over and in game graphics, even if it makes the game on the rails and instanced to fuck.  this is the current trend in big budget games in general though, not just mmos.  Us old farts used to PLAY games, the modern trend is to EXPERIENCE games and have a story told at you.

  Aeolyn

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/08
Posts: 136

3/07/13 7:46:02 PM#50
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Where do you read that i want to change open world MMORPGs?

Of course i play the many games available for me .. i never hid that .. i play D3, PoE, STO, Dead Space 3 ......

And it is fair game to express my opinion of which games i find fun, just like the other guy. This thread is about the trend i have seen, not a plead to change things.

Gaming is pretty fun to me. Why should i want to change things? There are more games than i have time for anyway.

Hmm well this quote from your first post surely implies to me that you think they should change "MMO devs certainly should feel pressured by some of these non-MMOs where the playstyle can be quite similar to MMOs. It is a time to adapt and change."

This is a general statement about the adapting to survive in the marketplace. That is different from "I *want* them to change due to personal preference".

Don't you think devs should adapt to the market place, given the competition, no matter what you personal preference is?

No actually I don't, otherwise we will all end up with less choice, kinda like having nothing but Targets and Wal-Marts to shop at instead of specialized shops that give us those unique items that large chains don't see a "market" for.  Just because the masses want something doesn't mean we all do nor should we.  Just think of some of the inventions we've seen in our own lifetimes because some"one" decided the status quo wasn't quite cutting if for them?  Maybe we should all go back to the days of walking... going faster, farther, and with less effort due to someone being dissatified with what the masses did, what a concept eh?

 Status Quo and what the market wants ae two different issues.  Sometimes they are the same, sometimes not.

I would counter with your walking example and say many many were not satisfied with the status quo and so when something new came along they were intrigued enough to look anyway.

Any company that does not follow their market and change with their market will die, without exception.   That doesn't mean that the companies all have to follow the herd remainor remain status quo... it does mean that once they identify their market, whichever market it is, if that market changes and they don't the company will die.

The whole problem with this whole argument is who exactly decides that the "market" has changed?  Does the whole market get a say or is it strictly the bean counters that say that since some are willing to swallow hook, line and sinker anything new the rest will follow and damn the rest?  Or will there be some who are willing to stand their ground and say heh, we have a loyal following that do not want to rush to endgame but want to live in our virtual world and help us develop new activities and lore as we move forward together and those players provide more than enough profit for us?

 There is only one objective measure of what the market wants and that is sales.  Thats it.  The number of sales of a particular product is the determination of what the market wants.

And I said the company needs to determine what their market wants.  In the case of MMO's a particular company's market may not be all gamers, or wow players.  Eve's market is probably different than WoW's market, although there is overlap.  But the rule applies if your market changes and you don't your company will go under.

Sooo, if the company is still selling their product to the same people for the same amount and noone is leaving dissatisfied, then I would argue it's not the market leading the change.

Again, the premise of this argument is that the market is dissatisfied... where's the proof other than people are curious enough to check out a new game/product, heck i may even try hundreds of new products every year but I always end up going back to the ones that have earned my loyalty.   I would venture a guess that's why WoW still has such a following, even with their misteps they are still better than most of what's out there.

When I read game forums there are always the same ones screaming for change, those ones are never satisfied, but the majority seem to be posts wishing for what had been before their product had been changed for the still unsatisfied screamers that have since moved on to scream about some other product that also doesn't satisfy them, and they never will.

  ZombieKen

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

3/07/13 7:49:43 PM#51

Short duration gaming is very casual friendly.  One can play for a few minutes, do all there is to do, and log out.

 

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4824

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

3/07/13 7:52:21 PM#52
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Where do you read that i want to change open world MMORPGs?

Of course i play the many games available for me .. i never hid that .. i play D3, PoE, STO, Dead Space 3 ......

And it is fair game to express my opinion of which games i find fun, just like the other guy. This thread is about the trend i have seen, not a plead to change things.

Gaming is pretty fun to me. Why should i want to change things? There are more games than i have time for anyway.

Hmm well this quote from your first post surely implies to me that you think they should change "MMO devs certainly should feel pressured by some of these non-MMOs where the playstyle can be quite similar to MMOs. It is a time to adapt and change."

This is a general statement about the adapting to survive in the marketplace. That is different from "I *want* them to change due to personal preference".

Don't you think devs should adapt to the market place, given the competition, no matter what you personal preference is?

No actually I don't, otherwise we will all end up with less choice, kinda like having nothing but Targets and Wal-Marts to shop at instead of specialized shops that give us those unique items that large chains don't see a "market" for.  Just because the masses want something doesn't mean we all do nor should we.  Just think of some of the inventions we've seen in our own lifetimes because some"one" decided the status quo wasn't quite cutting if for them?  Maybe we should all go back to the days of walking... going faster, farther, and with less effort due to someone being dissatified with what the masses did, what a concept eh?

 Status Quo and what the market wants ae two different issues.  Sometimes they are the same, sometimes not.

I would counter with your walking example and say many many were not satisfied with the status quo and so when something new came along they were intrigued enough to look anyway.

Any company that does not follow their market and change with their market will die, without exception.   That doesn't mean that the companies all have to follow the herd remainor remain status quo... it does mean that once they identify their market, whichever market it is, if that market changes and they don't the company will die.

The whole problem with this whole argument is who exactly decides that the "market" has changed?  Does the whole market get a say or is it strictly the bean counters that say that since some are willing to swallow hook, line and sinker anything new the rest will follow and damn the rest?  Or will there be some who are willing to stand their ground and say heh, we have a loyal following that do not want to rush to endgame but want to live in our virtual world and help us develop new activities and lore as we move forward together and those players provide more than enough profit for us?

 There is only one objective measure of what the market wants and that is sales.  Thats it.  The number of sales of a particular product is the determination of what the market wants.

And I said the company needs to determine what their market wants.  In the case of MMO's a particular company's market may not be all gamers, or wow players.  Eve's market is probably different than WoW's market, although there is overlap.  But the rule applies if your market changes and you don't your company will go under.

Sooo, if the company is still selling their product to the same people for the same amount and noone is leaving dissatisfied, then I would argue it's not the market leading the change.

Again, the premise of this argument is that the market is dissatisfied... where's the proof other than people are curious enough to check out a new game/product, heck i may even try hundreds of new products every year but I always end up going back to the ones that have earned my loyalty.   I would venture a guess that's why WoW still has such a following, even with their misteps they are still better than most of what's out there.

When I read game forums there are always the same ones screaming for change, those ones are never satisfied, but the majority seem to be posts wishing for what had been before their product had been changed for the still unsatisfied screamers that have since moved on to scream about some other product that also doesn't satisfy them, and they never will.

 If a company is still selling their product to the same people for the same amoutn and no one is leaving dissatisifed then it is not a case of the market is leading the change it is a case of the company's market has not changed. 

The proof of a market changing is again sales.  When two products are offered that fill the same need and one has sales go up, the other has sales go down, that is evidence that the market for that particular need/product is choosing one product over the other.  If all of a sudden you find that people are no longer buying your product, that is evidence that the market you were catering to before has changed in some way. 

If you try hundreds of products a year but always go back, then you haven't changed.  When you do change products on a more permanent basis then you've changed and the old products if they want to retain you will have to change in some way as well. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Aeolyn

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/08
Posts: 136

3/07/13 8:08:53 PM#53
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

 If a company is still selling their product to the same people for the same amoutn and no one is leaving dissatisifed then it is not a case of the market is leading the change it is a case of the company's market has not changed. 

The proof of a market changing is again sales.  When two products are offered that fill the same need and one has sales go up, the other has sales go down, that is evidence that the market for that particular need/product is choosing one product over the other.  If all of a sudden you find that people are no longer buying your product, that is evidence that the market you were catering to before has changed in some way. 

If you try hundreds of products a year but always go back, then you haven't changed.  When you do change products on a more permanent basis then you've changed and the old products if they want to retain you will have to change in some way as well. 

My underline, exactly what I've been saying.  So if the market hasn't changed, then why should the company change the product unless they decide they want to try and increase their profit margin, knowing full well that it is a risk and they may well lose the loyal customers they have with no guarantee of getting let alone retaining any new customers.  Iows, the premise of this whole thread, that products have to change is flawed imo.

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4824

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

3/07/13 8:24:39 PM#54
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

 If a company is still selling their product to the same people for the same amoutn and no one is leaving dissatisifed then it is not a case of the market is leading the change it is a case of the company's market has not changed. 

The proof of a market changing is again sales.  When two products are offered that fill the same need and one has sales go up, the other has sales go down, that is evidence that the market for that particular need/product is choosing one product over the other.  If all of a sudden you find that people are no longer buying your product, that is evidence that the market you were catering to before has changed in some way. 

If you try hundreds of products a year but always go back, then you haven't changed.  When you do change products on a more permanent basis then you've changed and the old products if they want to retain you will have to change in some way as well. 

My underline, exactly what I've been saying.  So if the market hasn't changed, then why should the company change the product unless they decide they want to try and increase their profit margin, knowing full well that it is a risk and they may well lose the loyal customers they have with no guarantee of getting let alone retaining any new customers.  Iows, the premise of this whole thread, that products have to change is flawed imo.

 You are right for the first part, wrong for the 2nd.  If their market hasn't changed then the company does not need to change.

However just because their particular market hasn't changed doesn't mean the greater market hasn't changed.

The overall MMO market has changed.  Any company wanting to target the greatest percentage of MMO gamers in that market will need to change.

Eve's market may not change, but eve isn't targeting the larger market.  It is targeting sandbox, sci-fi space games. 

Last time, then I have to go, if your market changes, then yes you need to change your product to meet the market.  The overall MMO market has changed, a game wanting to make a product for that greater MMO market does need to offer the things that they like.   The MMO market has a whole is different than it was 10 years ago.  A company that offers the same game as was available 10 years will not capture that greater marekt, they will only capture a small segment, which may be fine if that is market they are shooting for. 

Once the number of sales a game has start to drop that is a sign that they are not offereing something that their particular market wants.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

3/07/13 10:15:11 PM#55
Originally posted by ShakyMo

hence the emphasis on flashy cutscenes, voice over and in game graphics, even if it makes the game on the rails and instanced to fuck.  this is the current trend in big budget games in general though, not just mmos.  Us old farts used to PLAY games, the modern trend is to EXPERIENCE games and have a story told at you.

Well the true old farts -- the ones who played games before MMORPGs -- knew what gameplay was and yes we did play games.  That's partly why many of us rejected early MMORPGs, because they involved massive timesinks and minimal gameplay compared to normal games.

  dave6660

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2344

"Next time I see you, remind me not to talk to you."

3/07/13 11:11:40 PM#56
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by nariusseldon

MMO devs certainly should feel pressured by some of these non-MMOs where the playstyle can be quite similar to MMOs. It is a time to adapt and change.

Time to adapt and change simply because the world has moved on. EVERYTHING is done in 30-second to 15-minute sessions. Facebook, Twitter, Texting, every aspect of our lives has been reduced to much smaller and much faster  segments of information, entertainment and business.

The only use I ever found for social media is shorting their stock.  Facebook made me a few thousand dollars.

"Why so serious?"
-- The Joker

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12267

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

3/07/13 11:21:17 PM#57
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by nariusseldon

MMO devs certainly should feel pressured by some of these non-MMOs where the playstyle can be quite similar to MMOs. It is a time to adapt and change.

Time to adapt and change simply because the world has moved on. EVERYTHING is done in 30-second to 15-minute sessions. Facebook, Twitter, Texting, every aspect of our lives has been reduced to much smaller and much faster  segments of information, entertainment and business.

But at the end of the day, is it really better?

For most people, yes. That's how they live their life so gameplay like that fits more comfortably into their schedule.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12267

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

3/07/13 11:22:03 PM#58
Originally posted by dave6660
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by nariusseldon

MMO devs certainly should feel pressured by some of these non-MMOs where the playstyle can be quite similar to MMOs. It is a time to adapt and change.

Time to adapt and change simply because the world has moved on. EVERYTHING is done in 30-second to 15-minute sessions. Facebook, Twitter, Texting, every aspect of our lives has been reduced to much smaller and much faster  segments of information, entertainment and business.

The only use I ever found for social media is shorting their stock.  Facebook made me a few thousand dollars.

That's nice.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  pacov

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 318

3/07/13 11:33:56 PM#59
Wait why is everyone saying neverwinter will be lobby based like DDO was? It clearly has some content designed in traditional sense where it is 'persistent'.

  Merilirem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/01/13
Posts: 77

Do not fear the unknown, for it does not fear you.

3/08/13 1:14:30 AM#60
While I personally prefer an immersive experience and long hours of play, this kind of thing is definitely where the companies and etc should be heading. I say so due to my own conclusion that they are incapable of making a deep game, so instead they should make casual games, which are great for those without time or focus. Not everyone can wrap themselves up in fantasy afterall, be it lack of ability, interest or other more worldly constraints.

If a butterfly learnt to speak, to live in human society, paid its bills, had a job, lived in a fancy house and married a human, is it human?

Now what if that same butterfly knew how to write code better than any human and had years of experience in the game industry, would that make it a game designer?

If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world?

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