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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: A 'Next Gen' Opportunity

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42 posts found
  SchroesCat

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/23/10
Posts: 44

3/06/13 6:24:40 PM#21

Reading that, makes me feel nauseous. What I hear is:

Please, us poor developers have to make the big money. That is why we are creating mediocre crap that appeals to the masses - the biggest (and lowest) common denominator.

You have my sympathies. Everyone has to make money. But with statements like this you will not get mine. Nor my interest.

 

*edit to add* Sorry, nothing personal. Sounds good to me, to make whatever you do cross-platform. Of course. It is so much "blahblah" about the economics, that the whole point of a multiplayer RPG seems to have gotten lost somehow. Long ago. At least the point why some of the older folk once got ignited by this genre. Because, really... is the point of a "roleplaying" game, in a "fantasy" world... to kill 10 rats? To watch some experience, item, crafting meter or whatever rise?

Once upon a time, it was a "game". About creativity, about story. About cooperative story-telling and writing. About epic tales, heroic deeds, and heroic defeats. In games there is usually some kind of thrill involved, which comes with risk. 

All I see is mind-dumbing shallowness and boredom nowadays. 

But this is just a rant. Not directed at the OP. I just think that there are better arguments for your cross-platform cause than to appeal on our sympathy for the poor gaming companies that also have to make money. We know they have to. We all have to.

 
  Amsai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/16/11
Posts: 69

3/06/13 6:44:13 PM#22

@ Koboldfodder

Dude, you are an ass. You arent the one that gets to decide what a "real" game is. The mario series is and always will be one of the best games of its type. I wouldnt have spent so many hours playing them if I didnt think they were "real" games. You are however entitled to your completely crazy opinion though.  And from a huge console/gamepad fan........ fuck off.

 

Also I really appreciate those who have posted intellegently on the topic. I am very much in favor of console MMOs. Console MMOs are totally doable (more so with the next gen consoles), and in my opinion have been pretty successful and a big hit with me. Now thats not to say there arent problems. And anyone that says a console MMO cant have depth is an idiot. Now maybe you dont like it or maybe a game is poorly done, but thats no indidcation of depth or immersion. FFXI absolutely captivated me for 8+years. Also depth is not equal to the number of buttons you can press. Chess for instance is very simple and yet filled with such depth and complexity at the same time.

 

Quizzical is 100% right. And these present the only real barrier to MMOs on consoles. As for  a MMO being discontinued or blocked, these are possibilities, but worth the risk to me. I will say though that this could happen with PC MMOs that go bankrupt. And that this is only a huge problem if there isnt another platform option. Take FFXI for instance, sure they will drop support for PS2 players for the new expansion, but you still have the option to play with a gamepad on PC.

 

Cross-platform is just fine as an option too. There is absolutely no reason to make niche community (XBOX only) MMOs or to seperate communitues outside of what Quizz said. Which I think if the console MMO market takes off, there will be a change in the culture over at Playstation and Xbox networks (if thats not already in the works for the next gens).

 

There are issues with controls but these are more minor than most people make out. I play most MMOs with a gamepad using 3rd party programs. I have only run into 2 problems when it comes to controls: 1) FPS style aiming (analog sticks arent very friendly  for this) and 2) ground targeting like in GW2 (same analog stick problem). So pretty much ANY tab target game that doesnt use ground targeting is completely fine with a gamepad. I have been playing MMOs for years like this.

 

I also play plenty of PvP and pretty consistently win about 75-80% of my encounters. Not once have I ever lost in PvP and thought: Its cause I use a gamepad. Nope. The other guy was just better than me.... thats all. Now addmitedly trying to go 1 on 1 with FPS set up and not being able to use ground targeting skills in PvP would be a different story. I wouldnt normally try it, but it does depend on the game. There is nothing wrong with my gamepad, it will not have some severe loss in how fast it sends a signal vs a keyboard. There is nothing wrong with my reaction time. I wonder how many PC players would feel like I just castrated them, if I let them know they were just beaten by a filthy mouth-breathing gamepad user? Oh the drama.

 

Remember in the last paragraph where I say it depends on the game? 2 examples where I wa able to play a game just fine even with the gamepad issues I mentioned earlier. 1) TERA - it was designed with gamepad in mind as well and they did a good job. Despite it being true aim type of game, I never had any issues playing a melee or a tank. Now ranged classes were a different story. Archer class felt much much better with M+KB. 2) GW2 - aside form the ground targeting, this game was made to be played with a gamepad. That being said, I played it anyway, and had a very successful (if not short: just didnt like the game after a few months) PvP career as a Thief and I built my character around my playstyle which obviously didnt include ground targeting. Fear not though as I still had a number of self targeted skills for comboing with others.

 

Feel free to field me for any "But how can you possibly do X?" questions. Ill just say this again. Aside from what Quizz said, there really is no problem with console MMOs or cross-platform MMOs for that matter. As long as companies do like what SE is doing with having both gamepad and M+KB users in mind and not just junk ports to eachother its perfectly fine. I think the most important thing to users is viable choices. And lets not forget the untapped console MMO market in the already saturated MMO market what better way to get customers than  with a market with limited competition? The other day there was a rumor about EQ Next being PS4 exlusive. While I dont believe it will be only on PS4  and not PC (even at first) Its pretty obvious that it will be exclusive to that CONSOLE. I wouldnt be suprised if SoE does this, becuase their only direct and current MMO competition per sub-genre (high fantasy)  would be FFXIV. And even then they will be able to appeal to different people as one is complete themepark and the other is Sandbox.

 

Final thoughts: Its going to happen. Might as well not fight it, cause its going to happen. Now whether it will be implemented in good and fun ways is a different story.

  Yazeed

Novice Member

Joined: 9/19/12
Posts: 32

3/06/13 7:52:26 PM#23
How about u leave mmorpg games to us pc gamers and u go play CoD pls
This theard is stupid
Does we will see mmo name on console games ?
The answer is yes
Does it full mmorpg style ?
No
Is it better to shate mmorpg games to console?
Nope , cus it ganna be consolte style dumbazz
And if you complain about how mmo cost and blah blah then make a fking good game as wow and start make huge profit ... about console it already got games and fans so leave us some of pc style that we like
  Amsai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/16/11
Posts: 69

3/06/13 11:02:05 PM#24
Originally posted by Yazeed
How about u leave mmorpg games to us pc gamers and u go play CoD pls
Thats kinda selfish. Im not asking for PC gaming to go away, Im asking to be able to play an MMO on console. And why CoD? Cant I go play Zelda or Metal Gear instead?
This theard is stupid
How so?
Does we will see mmo name on console games ?
The answer is yes
Does it full mmorpg style ?
No
I dont see why it cant be a full MMO, FFXI was a full MMO. Now it wasnt a sandbox. If you only recognize that as the only legitimate form of MMO, then thats a different debate then console MMOs. A console MMO can be as deep and engauging as a PC one. Just depends on what the devs want to do.
Is it better to shate mmorpg games to console?
Nope , cus it ganna be consolte style dumbazz
Please explain. What is console style? Why would it have to be any style? If its cross-platform, then why couldnt you have it be both styles?
And if you complain about how mmo cost and blah blah then make a fking good game as wow and start make huge profit ... about console it already got games and fans so leave us some of pc style that we like
You  seem rather selish and paranoid. Why would I take your PC style? And why are you trying so hard to make it an US vs Them issue. Consoles do have a lot of good games. But not many MMOs yet. And why should I have to go play only console games? Cant I play both? 

 

  FARGIN_WAR

Novice Member

Joined: 12/19/12
Posts: 169

3/07/13 12:17:27 AM#25

I'm not sure console companies should bother to try. Let me explain. While I am not a console fan or owner I have no problem with the idea of MMOs being developed for them. However once you factor in the cost and the sheer amount of time it takes to create an MMO, unless the game company was very lucky, by the time their game makes it to launch the console or consoles, it was designed for are going to be getting a bit stale. It seems a very risky business.

I feel that if console makers want to branch out into different types of games I'd recommend something like MOBAs. Since they are easier, or at least quicker to create and seem to currently be wildly popular, possibly even more so than MMOs, I'd say that would be a far safer investment.

If you don’t do stupid things while you’re young, you’ll have nothing to smile about when you’re old.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16773

3/07/13 1:05:52 AM#26

The problem really is that games made both for PC and consoles need to have completely different UI for the platforms, playing with mouse and controlers are just too different and few games have done a good compromise.

In fact I wonder if the basic game mechanics shouldnt be different while the world would be the same. Making the console version more action based do have its merits, the question is just if they could balance it so both types would work on the same server.

  superniceguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

3/07/13 3:16:49 AM#27
Originally posted by Quizzical

  The Wii U has really gimpy hardware, though--the nearest comparison is an Xbox 360.

-----

I thought the Wii U was just a HD Wii but I was wrong. It is a next gen console. The Wii U is more powerful than the Xbox 360 or PS3. Criterian Most Wanted for Wii U is going to be better than Xbox 360 / PS3 as it is based off the PC version.  If the hardware was "gimpy" it would not be able to do that. I think people are underestimating the Wii U, and I do not have confidence that the PS4/next Xbox will bring out games so much better than the Wii U

The Wii U is certainly  still an adequate piece of hardware to bring a MMORPG to it, especually with its unique controller

-----------

Consoles should get unique MMOs for themselves. As each new console got released I thought there would be more MMOs on each one, but none never came.

Cross platform MMOs are not good, as the controls get weird, but games like PSO that were designed for console are good, and I am not looking forward to playing PSO2 on PC if can not use a Xbox 360 controller, and I do not like the idea of playing it on a mobile device either.

PSO/PSU is the one MMO that suits a controller over a keyboard/mouse

  Malcanis

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3210

"A very special kind of stupidity"

3/07/13 3:21:42 AM#28

The control scheme conflict is easily resolved if you offer a different experience to Console players and PC players. For instance, you could divide the playable races/classes between the two clients.  Keep the complex classes to the PC client, give the console client something different, like a race that can fly but only has a few specific abilities.

Design the world and gameplay so that there are niches for both sets. Release.

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  User Deleted
3/07/13 3:29:36 AM#29

next gen console mmo.

plastic staff look a like controller with 4 buttons ,x fireball , 0  dance etc,gonna be amazong next gen mmo ,Y button for funny fart sounds and  A button for instant messaging and screenshot roleplaying.

  Ozmodan

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6740

3/07/13 4:40:08 AM#30

The problem with the current crop of consoles, they just do not have enough memory in them to do a good MMO.  You are going to have to wait until the end of the year when the next gen releases.  Developers have to cut too many corners to shoehorn a big MMO onto a console.

With Sony finally going to the intel format chips with the PS4, it will be a lot easier for developer to move the game to the console.  

You will still need a mouse and keyboard on the console though to really play one.

The big drawback to games written for both consoles and the PC, bad UI.  Hopefully, developers won't make a console UI and move it to the PC.

Oh and you can forget the WII-U, it is not something a big MMO is going to develop for, it is barely better than the existing consoles.

  superniceguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

3/07/13 5:32:52 AM#31
Originally posted by Ozmodan

The problem with the current crop of consoles, they just do not have enough memory in them to do a good MMO.  You are going to have to wait until the end of the year when the next gen releases.  Developers have to cut too many corners to shoehorn a big MMO onto a console.

With Sony finally going to the intel format chips with the PS4, it will be a lot easier for developer to move the game to the console.  

You will still need a mouse and keyboard on the console though to really play one.

The big drawback to games written for both consoles and the PC, bad UI.  Hopefully, developers won't make a console UI and move it to the PC.

Oh and you can forget the WII-U, it is not something a big MMO is going to develop for, it is barely better than the existing consoles.

This thread is about "next gen opportunity" so is not going on about Xbox 360 or PS3

Also the Wii U is better than the existing consoles, it is next gen.

Any console can handle any MMO, if it is designed specifically for that console, but any console, even the PS4 and next Xbox, will not be able to handle a MMO that is also on PC.

I would rather play a MMO on the Wii U than the PS4 or next Xbox, that controller makes things more viable, unless they will get one too, but the PS4 does not look like it.

  Battlerock

Elite Member

Joined: 12/12/11
Posts: 967

3/07/13 8:29:44 AM#32
Wow is easily the most popular mmo, it would run on an Atari. You dont need big expensive pc systems to have a great gaming experience. Now if you want to push the limits of graphical and audio technology, then yes you need a big expensive pc. If you want to play an mmo that pushes those limits as well you might as well forgwt it. Blizzard knows this, sony knows, the folks making wildstar know, and dare I say even swtor knows this. Swtor on the ps4 woud be a revival, now lets hooe these nickles and dimes schemes dont muddy up what could be.
  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13585

3/07/13 12:16:26 PM#33
Originally posted by KingofHartz
Wow is easily the most popular mmo, it would run on an Atari. You dont need big expensive pc systems to have a great gaming experience. Now if you want to push the limits of graphical and audio technology, then yes you need a big expensive pc. If you want to play an mmo that pushes those limits as well you might as well forgwt it. Blizzard knows this, sony knows, the folks making wildstar know, and dare I say even swtor knows this. Swtor on the ps4 woud be a revival, now lets hooe these nickles and dimes schemes dont muddy up what could be.

Have you ever tried playing WoW on a computer with 256 MB of system memory?  I have.  It wasn't a pleasant experience.  I once timed it at about 25 minutes to run from one spot in Ironforge to a different spot in Ironforge.  Getting multiple frames per second would have really helped me avoid falling into the big pits.  Then I added more memory and the problems went away, which proves that memory was the real problem.

You know how much system memory a PlayStation 3 has?  256 MB.  For Blizzard to get WoW to run on a PS3, they'd likely have had to lower the system requirements considerably.  It's not like WoW was horribly bloated to begin with, either.

Oh, and I'm talking about WoW shortly after the game's launch, not WoW with years of upgrades tacked on.  And with no mods, for good measure.

  Malcanis

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3210

"A very special kind of stupidity"

3/08/13 3:52:04 AM#34
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by KingofHartz
Wow is easily the most popular mmo, it would run on an Atari. You dont need big expensive pc systems to have a great gaming experience. Now if you want to push the limits of graphical and audio technology, then yes you need a big expensive pc. If you want to play an mmo that pushes those limits as well you might as well forgwt it. Blizzard knows this, sony knows, the folks making wildstar know, and dare I say even swtor knows this. Swtor on the ps4 woud be a revival, now lets hooe these nickles and dimes schemes dont muddy up what could be.

Have you ever tried playing WoW on a computer with 256 MB of system memory?  I have.  It wasn't a pleasant experience.  I once timed it at about 25 minutes to run from one spot in Ironforge to a different spot in Ironforge.  Getting multiple frames per second would have really helped me avoid falling into the big pits.  Then I added more memory and the problems went away, which proves that memory was the real problem.

You know how much system memory a PlayStation 3 has?  256 MB.  For Blizzard to get WoW to run on a PS3, they'd likely have had to lower the system requirements considerably.  It's not like WoW was horribly bloated to begin with, either.

Oh, and I'm talking about WoW shortly after the game's launch, not WoW with years of upgrades tacked on.  And with no mods, for good measure.

Do you think the PS3's operating system takes up the same resources as Windows XP?

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  Lycanthat

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 1

3/08/13 4:07:50 AM#35

 

@Quizzical

"WoW on a computer with 256 MB of system memory (...) wasn't a pleasant experience (...) You know how much system memory a PlayStation 3 has?  256 MB."

And yet somehow they magically get beautiful games like Gran Turismo 5 and Killzone 2 running on PS3... games which would have no chance in hell of running on a PC with even twice that memory. It's called OPTIMIZATION. Good programmers know how to do it.

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

3/08/13 4:19:46 AM#36

If i even slighest smell a R...uhhh console i will not play it.

Exception offcorse if game is 100% also developed for pc and then also playable for console players i dont mind.

But even fraction dumb down to favor console(new gen consoles will still be dumb down compare to PC that will all ways be on fore front) i wont buy the game.

From a Hardcore PC gamer!

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

3/08/13 4:23:48 AM#37
Originally posted by Lycanthat

 

@Quizzical

"WoW on a computer with 256 MB of system memory (...) wasn't a pleasant experience (...) You know how much system memory a PlayStation 3 has?  256 MB."

And yet somehow they magically get beautiful games like Gran Turismo 5 and Killzone 2 running on PS3... games which would have no chance in hell of running on a PC with even twice that memory. It's called OPTIMIZATION. Good programmers know how to do it.

Try get crysis 1 at the time or crysis 3 now run on console as beautiful as PC can run it THEY CAN'T.

Consoles will always behind high end PC'S(+PC can do alot more that those simple boxes) nomatter how optimized.

  GranDux

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/05/13
Posts: 57

3/08/13 4:45:14 AM#38

Spreading out incase of another 1983 game collaspe? :)

PC to console was done for the first Final Fantasy MMO and Phantasy Star Online series. If MMO companies are going to go into console then they have to make the games fluid-like in combat first and less reliance on walls of text for quest dialogues with more visual aspect like Blade and Soul.

No one will be tab-targeting on a game unit that mainly relies upon controller and action.  Both PC and Console players should be interact with one-another on the same servers instead of seperate ones. Much as the experiment being done with Eve Online and DUST 514.

  Ozmodan

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6740

3/08/13 5:47:24 AM#39
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Ozmodan

The problem with the current crop of consoles, they just do not have enough memory in them to do a good MMO.  You are going to have to wait until the end of the year when the next gen releases.  Developers have to cut too many corners to shoehorn a big MMO onto a console.

With Sony finally going to the intel format chips with the PS4, it will be a lot easier for developer to move the game to the console.  

You will still need a mouse and keyboard on the console though to really play one.

The big drawback to games written for both consoles and the PC, bad UI.  Hopefully, developers won't make a console UI and move it to the PC.

Oh and you can forget the WII-U, it is not something a big MMO is going to develop for, it is barely better than the existing consoles.

This thread is about "next gen opportunity" so is not going on about Xbox 360 or PS3

Also the Wii U is better than the existing consoles, it is next gen.

Any console can handle any MMO, if it is designed specifically for that console, but any console, even the PS4 and next Xbox, will not be able to handle a MMO that is also on PC.

I would rather play a MMO on the Wii U than the PS4 or next Xbox, that controller makes things more viable, unless they will get one too, but the PS4 does not look like it.

The only thing next gen about the WII-U is it is a shade better than the current competition, once Sony and Microsoft release their new consoles it will again be a also ran.  I agree about the WII-U controller though, it is better than what Sony is going to offer, problem is, it is attached to a box with less than robust features and it is not intel based.  

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13585

3/09/13 9:33:58 PM#40
Originally posted by Lycanthat

 

@Quizzical

"WoW on a computer with 256 MB of system memory (...) wasn't a pleasant experience (...) You know how much system memory a PlayStation 3 has?  256 MB."

And yet somehow they magically get beautiful games like Gran Turismo 5 and Killzone 2 running on PS3... games which would have no chance in hell of running on a PC with even twice that memory. It's called OPTIMIZATION. Good programmers know how to do it.

Neither of which are MMORPGs.  Having a bunch of other players in the same game world potentially wearing arbitrary gear that you have to draw and doing arbitrary things adds a bunch of complications.

I'm not saying that you can't do anything on 256 MB of system memory or the 256 MB of video memory that a PlayStation 3 has.  But it does considerably restrict what you can do.  For example, you're going to need fairly low resolution textures.

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