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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Now...Things from DAoC you DON'T want to see in CU

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51 posts found
  morfidon

Novice Member

Joined: 2/19/13
Posts: 245

3/06/13 8:24:57 AM#21

"I never liked it in the least. I felt like once a melee got within range is was pretty much “game over,” not to mention range attacks interrupted as well. Yes, I understand quickcast but a caster could only take 1-3 hits without dying. So why can spells just have a fizzle change when within melee range, do not make casters as squishy but as a trade off make their damage decrease with survivability."

No it wasn't gameover. You could be saved by your mates, tank could be rooted, mezzed, stunned, crippled, diseased and many other things. Casters should die in 1-3 hits, they are casters. They still could be saved by a good healers. Because of that interruption system casters had also enormous DPS so if you left them 'alone' not being hit, they could kill. Don't make a game where you can cast and being hit in the same time. It's mindless.

  Outis

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/07
Posts: 101

3/06/13 8:43:11 AM#22
Originally posted by morfidon

"I never liked it in the least. I felt like once a melee got within range is was pretty much “game over,” not to mention range attacks interrupted as well. Yes, I understand quickcast but a caster could only take 1-3 hits without dying. So why can spells just have a fizzle change when within melee range, do not make casters as squishy but as a trade off make their damage decrease with survivability."

No it wasn't gameover. You could be saved by your mates, tank could be rooted, mezzed, stunned, crippled, diseased and many other things. Casters should die in 1-3 hits, they are casters. They still could be saved by a good healers. Because of that interruption system casters had also enormous DPS so if you left them 'alone' not being hit, they could kill. Don't make a game where you can cast and being hit in the same time. It's mindless.

Then melee attacks, while "charging or running" should have huge penalties since a person swinging a 2h Axe should not effectively hit as hard running as a person swinging a 2h Axe standing still.

  Kaneth

Elite Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1590

3/06/13 8:53:34 AM#23

I don't want to see the absolutely stupid amounts of CC that was present when I played DAoC last (left right after ToA came out). Often times, it came down to whoever CC'd first would win the day, especially with realm skills like purge being on longish cooldowns (only to be CC'd again). This was actually one of the main reasons why my guild quit DAoC, because the CC killed a lot of the skill in small skirmishes.

Long PvE road to be able to be competitive in PvP. The path from 1-50 was pretty long in DAoC, made longer by forced grouping, and xp loss on death. When class elitism set in, it was very hard for certain classes to get groups, which made that leveling path even longer. I would say keep PvE and PvP completely separate systems all together, but Darkness Falls was a fun idea. Being competitive in PvP regardless of level is a hard system to make, but seems worthwhile endeavor considering it could lengthen your mileage with the game.

Imbalanced classes, some were stupid strong and others were stupid weak. Having different classes per realm was a neat idea in DAoC, but I think it also created more problems than needed. Class balancing is always an issue with heavily focused PvP games though.

  Odaman

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/13
Posts: 195

3/06/13 9:38:38 AM#24

Buff bots - Use concentration and max range on buffs to keep them under control.

Clunky movement- This goes with the acceleration/deceleration previously posted. It felt far too constricting going back to this after newer mmmos and is the main reason I couldn't go back and play daoc after 9 years of doing so =p It didn't add strategy, because stick would instantly accelerate you to max speed and face would instantly stop you. It was just a poorly implemented movement system. I mean ffs you could run backwards as fast as you could forwards by autorunning, holding down pan and then holding down your backpedal.

I'm up in the air on stick and face on enemy targets. Friendly would be nice though (especially if we don't have the infamous mini map half radar on our screen showing the position of our allies as little dots).

Radar from post NF with flaming objectives and icons indiciating the factions having large fights. I don't mind having a warning system for objectives, but I definately don't want to see open field fights have a big kill me symbol over them on a map.

I think that's about it. Just to comment on things others have posted.

Interrupts- I'd like to see them the way they were in daoc... if not it needs to at least be harsher than the free casting crap we see in mmos today. 

CC- It was terrible at the start, and got progressively better throughout the games life. The last time I played heavy tanks had pbae demez/deroot with stoicism+det5, purge was on a 5min cd, charge on a 3min cd, and multiple hybrids had access to at least determination. The cc at that point was perfectly fine (your oh shit demezzer couldn't be cc'd very long at all). Nevermind the fact that roots were a good way to lose most of the time because they gave snare immunity which was far more useful imo. Granted roots also became rather pointless because of the champion level abilities that allowed melee the interrupt with disease efficiently from range.

 

 

 

  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

3/06/13 9:40:29 AM#25
Originally posted by Kaneth

I don't want to see the absolutely stupid amounts of CC that was present when I played DAoC last (left right after ToA came out). Often times, it came down to whoever CC'd first would win the day, especially with realm skills like purge being on longish cooldowns (only to be CC'd again). This was actually one of the main reasons why my guild quit DAoC, because the CC killed a lot of the skill in small skirmishes.

Long PvE road to be able to be competitive in PvP. The path from 1-50 was pretty long in DAoC, made longer by forced grouping, and xp loss on death. When class elitism set in, it was very hard for certain classes to get groups, which made that leveling path even longer. I would say keep PvE and PvP completely separate systems all together, but Darkness Falls was a fun idea. Being competitive in PvP regardless of level is a hard system to make, but seems worthwhile endeavor considering it could lengthen your mileage with the game.

Imbalanced classes, some were stupid strong and others were stupid weak. Having different classes per realm was a neat idea in DAoC, but I think it also created more problems than needed. Class balancing is always an issue with heavily focused PvP games though.

How does CC kill a lot of the skill? using CC in DAOC was skill... If you blew purge on a mezz and then got rooted, that means you were out skilled ... lol?

 

I honestly think the long road from 1-50 is one of the things that made daoc so great, eventually you could PL fast, but your original character meant something. I hope there is a way to stop people from just jumping around from class to class to class when they die the first time because they think they're underpowered.

Class balance was a hard thing in DAOC, but the pros and gains you get from having so many unique interesting classes far outweights it.

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  User Deleted
3/06/13 9:42:50 AM#26
Mark Jacobs
  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5545

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

3/06/13 9:46:41 AM#27

if im going to play this game i:

 dont want to see DAOC's bad graphics and clunky mechanics.

And i sure as hell dont want to see the EA logo anywhere near CU......lol

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  Lawtoween

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/13
Posts: 104

3/06/13 11:38:06 AM#28

Stealthers that can disappear after already being seen and then kill you before you can do anything about it.  While I don't recall this being as bad when I played DAOC as it is in WAR, I have always hated the stealth mechanic when employed in this totally skilless manner.

Stealth should be a way to get around the field while avoiding combat completely, or to spring a trap.  Not a way to maneuver through the front lines to get to the support classes, or to escape a fight where the stealther is out classed or out numbered. 

Cool downs are not the answer to this problem.  In fact, I would not put a cooldown on stealth at all.

To enter stealth mode, a stealther should have to be out of line of sight from any enemies that are not currently engaged in melee combat (maybe just combat).  Whether this is behind an object larger than the stealther, or at a distance that would make them unnoticeable without stealth is irrelevant. 

Movement should induce a bonus to detection that scales with the distance moved by the stealther.  I have no problem with an ability to conceal oneself along a common route of travel, wait for a solo target to pass within melee range and then being able to appear out of nowhere and be assured of the kill.  On the other hand, try this with a whole group and the stealther should be assured of their own death, with maybe ONE kill. 

Detection should be range dependent as well.  At a range greater than any ranged attack, stealth should be reliable, but get inside of ranged attack range and detection should become a concern.  At four times melee range an enemy not currently using a combat skill should be able to see a stealther moving around them as a ghost figure.  At two times melee range, if the stealther is the one moving, stealth should be broken unless the stealther is approaching an enemy where an ally is occupying that enemy's attention. 

Attacks from stealth should have "cast" times, that require the stealther to be stationary the way casters can not move, but these attacks could then have even greater effects than a nuke.  Because ,of course, they would get only one in any particular fight since they will have broken stealth.

 

 

  fanglo

Novice Member

Joined: 5/26/04
Posts: 280

3/06/13 11:59:38 AM#29
Originally posted by Lawtoween

Stealthers that can disappear after already being seen and then kill you before you can do anything about it.  While I don't recall this being as bad when I played DAOC as it is in WAR, I have always hated the stealth mechanic when employed in this totally skilless manner.

Stealth should be a way to get around the field while avoiding combat completely, or to spring a trap.  Not a way to maneuver through the front lines to get to the support classes, or to escape a fight where the stealther is out classed or out numbered. 

Cool downs are not the answer to this problem.  In fact, I would not put a cooldown on stealth at all.

To enter stealth mode, a stealther should have to be out of line of sight from any enemies that are not currently engaged in melee combat (maybe just combat).  Whether this is behind an object larger than the stealther, or at a distance that would make them unnoticeable without stealth is irrelevant. 

Movement should induce a bonus to detection that scales with the distance moved by the stealther.  I have no problem with an ability to conceal oneself along a common route of travel, wait for a solo target to pass within melee range and then being able to appear out of nowhere and be assured of the kill.  On the other hand, try this with a whole group and the stealther should be assured of their own death, with maybe ONE kill. 

Detection should be range dependent as well.  At a range greater than any ranged attack, stealth should be reliable, but get inside of ranged attack range and detection should become a concern.  At four times melee range an enemy not currently using a combat skill should be able to see a stealther moving around them as a ghost figure.  At two times melee range, if the stealther is the one moving, stealth should be broken unless the stealther is approaching an enemy where an ally is occupying that enemy's attention. 

Attacks from stealth should have "cast" times, that require the stealther to be stationary the way casters can not move, but these attacks could then have even greater effects than a nuke.  Because ,of course, they would get only one in any particular fight since they will have broken stealth.

 

 

I agree the Steatlh mechanic in DaoC is broken. When DaoC first came out it was alright but right now it's stupid. Pretty much any monkey can roll a stealth class and then it's just a waiting game to find anyone stupid enough to try and run around solo. CU shouldn't be like that. Every class should have a chance to solo, not just stealthers and those built to kill stealthers. Some of my most fond memories in DaoC was solo'ing on my druid fighting necro's, clerics, rm's, sorcs, minsts, skalds etc... all solo fights. Each fight brought a unique challenge. Both players if they panned well had equal advantage. Stealthers on the other hand were horrible fights. It was can I purge and rr5 before the stealther kills me? if so I win, if not I lose. Sooooo stupid. no real strategy involved at all. Then don't even get me started on stealther groups addding on everything with nearly 0 risk.

 

I healed Mistwraith and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt!

  Plastic-Metal

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 423

3/06/13 12:00:45 PM#30
Originally posted by evilastro
Mark Jacobs

evilastro wins the best troll of 2013 award.

My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

  OgreRaper

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/11
Posts: 381

3/06/13 12:03:10 PM#31
The character control. It was fine way back then. But after playing games like WoW that have super precise controls, I can't even bring myself to play DAOC anymore, the controls are just dreadful.
  Punk999

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/04
Posts: 882

3/06/13 12:04:47 PM#32
/stick and /face on enemies

"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
^MMORPG.com

  Teh_Axi

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/08
Posts: 405

3/06/13 12:26:45 PM#33

/stick

  Ice-Queen

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2435

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

3/06/13 7:17:19 PM#34
I don't want to have to have a buffbot account.

What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot

  Vargur

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/10
Posts: 142

3/07/13 9:58:57 AM#35

Caster damage output.

Especially after ToA and proliferation of buffbots, casters became demi-gods. Damage output needs to be tempered by casting speed. I don't mind casters being able to rapid fire spells, but then the damage has to drop as well.

  Speely

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 864

3/07/13 10:12:13 AM#36
I want everything sans PvE grind(ToA), Brittle Guard, and Forceful Zephyr(personal annoyances). And Infils having more spec points than anyone.

Other than that, a better-looking, RvR-centric daoc with dynamic objectives and badass vision would give my soul a boner.

Never had a problem with the CC or interrupt system at all. Never had a problem with Stealth. Never had a problem with casters. If I wanted to play a game where there was no chance of getting owned by someone got the drop on me, I would play a single-player game. If they can pwn me, I can pwn them, and if I can't, I am a scrub who should not be playing a hardcore niche mmorpg.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt

  Plastic-Metal

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 423

3/07/13 10:23:21 AM#37

It actually surprises me that so many people dislike the /face and /stick feature.  I can understand the 'clunky' aspect, but if WoW had implemented a form of it.. the idiots that bunny hop around you in combat would stop immediately.  This isn't a comment to derail, I'm just saying I'm surprised.

I personally loved both features.  Caster or arch hiding behind a tree?  /face and you'd know where it's coming from;  /stick had issues, though, as it encouraged /assist trains that just absolutely wrecked people.

My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

  Ice-Queen

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2435

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

3/07/13 10:30:34 AM#38
Originally posted by Plastic-Metal

It actually surprises me that so many people dislike the /face and /stick feature.  I can understand the 'clunky' aspect, but if WoW had implemented a form of it.. the idiots that bunny hop around you in combat would stop immediately.  This isn't a comment to derail, I'm just saying I'm surprised.

I personally loved both features.  Caster or arch hiding behind a tree?  /face and you'd know where it's coming from;  /stick had issues, though, as it encouraged /assist trains that just absolutely wrecked people.

I actually liked it, bunny hopping around wasn't successful.

What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot

  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

3/07/13 10:39:07 AM#39
Originally posted by Plastic-Metal

It actually surprises me that so many people dislike the /face and /stick feature.  I can understand the 'clunky' aspect, but if WoW had implemented a form of it.. the idiots that bunny hop around you in combat would stop immediately.  This isn't a comment to derail, I'm just saying I'm surprised.

I personally loved both features.  Caster or arch hiding behind a tree?  /face and you'd know where it's coming from;  /stick had issues, though, as it encouraged /assist trains that just absolutely wrecked people.

Don't necessarily think /stick encouraged assist trains... I'm pretty sure the pvp game design encouraged that form of strategy.

Without stick maybe it would be harder? maybe not? I think something like /stick allows some level of relaxation in a complicated battle that can allow them to think more as a group instead of just what you're doing. Who knows though, couldn't confirm or deny that without removing stick from daoc.

Fix the clunky nature of it and I think it would work fantastic in a new game.

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  User Deleted
3/07/13 10:42:34 AM#40
Originally posted by Plastic-Metal
Originally posted by evilastro
Mark Jacobs

evilastro wins the best troll of 2013 award.

 I would like to thank my parents and my teachers....

But seriously, hasn't he wasted enough peoples money already?

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